Open 878: Scarfolk Council | The End

[Umlaut]

Vote Count 3.7

From children to teachers to pensioners; from secretaries to factory workers to black propaganda operatives secretly working for the government disguised as school dinner ladies, mind control was all the rage in 1970s Scarfolk.

Everyone was at it. Dozens of ‘DIY’ books flooded the market and there was a schism over which was the better method: occult ritual magick, the use of precision medical implements such as straightened wire coat hangers, or television advertising.

Because the government had already employed potent thought-control techniques to cap the cognitive abilities of citizens, most people didn’t master much more than the basics, such as the Disco Leech Maneouver (see the book cover below), which reduced the mental age of a subject by up to 4 hours.

---

sheepsaysmeep (3):

implosion, Aureal, Ydrasse

Aureal (3):

Cephrir, Aisa, sheepsaysmeep

fireisredsir (1):

Menalque

Egix96 (1):

Dunnstral

Not voting (1):

fireisredsir

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to launch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2023-06-24 17:55:00)

Notes:

• Menalque is on V/LA through Monday, June 26.

[Cephrir]

this game is so boring

[sheepsaysmeep]

why is it boring

[sheepsaysmeep]

I feel like there is interesting stuff happening to assess

[sheepsaysmeep]

wat else is there to mafia

[Cephrir]

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[Cephrir]

hmm no i can do better

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[Cephrir]

wat else is there to mafia

fun vote formatting for starters

it would help if you all could make your cases at a 5th grade reading level and include pictures

[Aisa]

On reread Mena seems townier

My Ydrasse towncase, very briefly, based on CSF and which I was going to do several days ago:

I don't know how accurate this still is, but the last time I played with CSF I got the impression she did not like playing as scum and does not have much WIM as that alignment. I am basically townleaning the slot based on the fact her ISO has several analysis posts that signal to me she was interested in the game and inquisitive. One example is the post below:

Spoiler:

(1) why didn't you like Dunn's entrance?

I think people tend to townread people who push the game out of RVS and being active in the early game, and that doesn't make them scum. I have some difficulty thinking Dunn genuinely believes that

The "your nullreads are actually scumreads" point felt like splitting hairs

also a thought that crossed my mind earlier was did Dunnstral really see Alianna's readslist, open up activity overview, and cross check it? I feel like this is a kind of read that is more likely to come from someone who had already read the entire game and had a sense of who was active and who was not, but he claimed he didn't do that

he was also one of the people who threw out a fast townread on Woo, and while I realize not all of those people are going to be scum, he's also not towny out of that group

(2) what do you like about Alianna?

I went to quote some posts out of her ISO that I liked for you, but uh, on the whole she feels more reactive than I remembered. Here are some posts I remember liking though-

Spoiler:

Current reads: Andante is towny because reasons, Aisa and Invisibility are towny because vibes, Doc and CSF are ever so slightly north of null (Doc because I kind of want to trust Aisa's meta read and CSF because 151 is a good post), and

skitter might be sus but I need to re-read her ISO.

Meh, skitter can go back in the nullbin.

One question though Alianna, shouldn't you have a meta read on me by now and not have to trust another player?

If you think I should have a meta read on you, do you have a meta read on me?

I liked how she responded to Drew's question in 227, and then she actually flipped the question back to her interrogator!

I don’t agree with the idea that Andante is obvious town or that Invis is tunnelling her, but I don’t necessarily think Andante making those assertions is scum-indicative.

I think this is a good post. I think instead of honing in on some things in her ISO that maybe don't feel consistent, she takes a more holistic approach. It was very similar to how I felt at that point in the game

The wagon on Andante's pretty good, but Drew has said he wants to catch up so I don't know why he's being wagoned either.

I'll keep that in mind, ty

Why is the wagon on Andante good?

Came in with some brazen stuff and immediately self-declared obv town. The assumption ig is that scum wouldn't engage in any bravado or start questioning TRs on themselves? But that assumption is worth more when it's not Andante just saying "So what I did just now makes me locktown". It comes off as awareness of reads on yourself, and like, feigning confidence in RVS is just super easy to do. She did this after saying Implo is tryharding early.

It's a solid place for a wagon.

I need to reread the thread and try to figure out if I have any town reads based on anything said that early. I think Invis and skitter saw the logic in

not

seeing the logic in Andante's posts, but I'm not sure if there were any more, and I don't have a better yardstick for townie behavior thus far.

If you think Andante is a good wagon, why did you never vote her?

Good post

Not interested in Andante wagon because I think she's town. The votes there are all meh for different reasons.
Drew wagon is somehow even more meh.
Cephrir and Invis are voting there because...why?
Woo wagon feels slightly better, at least on CSF's side. 250 raises some good points. Doc's 285 feels a little tinfoily though lol.

Not much explanation for this one idk, I just liked it

(3) have you played much with enchant?

yeah I've played several games with him now. If you're trying to gauge whether or not I am good at reading him, I have unfortunately come to realize that I am not. I like playing with him tho, Enchant is a vibe

For example, I like the point in the spoiler about Alianna's 239. Signals to me that she's actually putting effort into the game and trying to read people.

Also, about the post I made the other day:

Spoiler:

Pre Edit:forgot woo was even in the game.

Care to join me?

Pre Edit:forgot woo was even in the game.

Care to join me?

I thought you would never ask

VOTE: Wooooooo!!!

Going all Ric Flair felt appropriate.

Woo!

Throwback to a simpler time. What else do you need to TR CSF slot?
(I'm only half joking!)

I'm not sure if it applies to CSF, but I do feel like joking around is a towntell for some players. I've noticed this in my own play, where if I am scum I feel less interested in joking around in the thread and have to force myself to do it. I think this is partly because playing scum is generally more effort for me and also because I feel a bit more alienated from the thread vibes. When I'm town I live "in" the public thread in a way and there is no other outlet for my bad sense of humour. So idk I thought the "Woo!" post could actually be a bit town-indicative.

[Aisa]

Cool the plan for the rest of tonight is to make my mind up on who to vote hopefully for the final time today

[Aisa]

Oh, I have no view on Ydra's entrance in the game

[Aisa]

Regarding Andante, I think my read on her is now in the vicinity of "town, but can still be persuaded otherwise by someone who knows more about her". I don't think her Dunn case is scummy by any means, I just don't understand it at all (except for activity points). It's entirely possible that it's actually a good case that I just cannot physically parse.

I think her trajectory through this game sort of makes sense with how she'd feel as town; I think going to read people and latching onto a Dunn scumread is something she could definitely do as town. I think I tend to read her general sense of being pissed at the game state, like her indignance at the Enchant wagon and at people refusing to join her on Dunn, as townish. I think in that context her being pissed at people for not townreading her and assuming that she is the shining beacon of towniness is consistent with her mindset, it's just such a foreign mindset to me.

implo, responding here because it's where you actually talk about it but I don't think that anything that Andy did is really particularly clearing for the slot?

I mean, my impression of andante is that she is intense and scattered regardless with a tendency to tunnel as town and to fake tunnel as scum, all mixed in with a big ole helping of emotional volatility.

but looking back at her ISO... idk, I'm not seeing it really. I don't have her as locked in scum, but I think she was (1) overly sensitive about the wagon on her, a wagon which was only at 3 and which I now know was 2/3 town and quite possibly 3/3 town. I don't particularly care for the meta arguments, but I think she is overly worried in posts like 454 and 459 for the amount of actual pressure and I don't think the fact she might react like that as town is clearing. the PR claim so early is also, I think, way too preemptive. it's unfortunate because I think if she's town she does a lot of suboptimal stuff that gives her cover as scum basically.

she then super hard OMGUS' on Aisa who I'm currently town on, then pushes now confirmed town invisibility which I think is an awful push, then pushes on me for filler questions, then town reads enchant who even being town I think looked objectively terrible and I don't regret limming him at all (again, <3 u buddy)

uhh I have to go now but there is more I think

tl;dr Andy being indignant and irritated not town indicative

Posts like these are the reason Mena seems towny on reread
This reads super pure to me for a scumread on a slot that is now confirmed town

I know Mena's towniness is not a pressing matter right now but shhh I'll get to the pressing matters soon. Maybe.

[Aisa]

idk I feel like {fire, Aureal, sheep} is a great pool to eliminate within but the choice of the actual slot to vote for within this pool is pretty tough

[fireisredsir]

ydra whats your read on me independent of sheep

[Ydrasse]

ydra whats your read on me independent of sheep

eeeehhhhhhh
i don't think i know how to read your tonally or whatever but i think your posting day two isn't terrific, you make some weird like theoretical thoughts/worlds like where you wonder about wolves in the drivers seat and you were part of the reason skitter died given your casing and in general you've been a slot that's failed to resolve despite people trying to kill you which is a curiosity in of itself,

looking at today's wagon on you it looks like it's mostly people who are probably town voting you which is like, what are the wolves doing if you're town, i guess choosing not to kill you or being afraid of having to do it? yesterday's wagon on you is a little more seedy to me with dunn/ceph but it's like. you keep cropping up but no one wants to bite which is just ?

that doesn't say a lot but i'm unsure of how to word it, if you're a wolf i guess your partners want to keep you alive rather than defaulting to bussing, if you're town wolves probably don't want blood on their hands or are saving to kill you later where they'll be like, "oh look fire is still here :/ how did they wiggle out smh"

i wouldn't be upset if you were wagoned and killed tbqh, it avoids a lot of worst case scenarios and i have people who i know i would never wagon today and probably for most of the game so. a shrug and a thumbs down

[Aisa]

fire also seems townier on reread?!! Idk if this is just motivated reasoning but

[Aisa]

Ok wait this is getting ridiculous I don't think I even have 3 scumreads anymore

[Aureal]

Hmm fire you know my woo reaction test? Why do you find that towny?

it seemed like something that the town bunny in the field running around pushing buttons would do

there's just like an eagerness to solve the game and inquisitiveness behind it (which i think is also recognizable without meta)

it's not like it's something that's impossible for scum to fake it's just that idk if scum would even think of it?

i don't think it's a particularly strong part of my read anymore i admit i was being somewhat lazy before by townbinning mostly off that, i feel better about my reasons now

I'm not sure why it would really be harder for scum to think of this. Thinking of it simply involves seeing that Woo was apparently thinking about the vote count inaccurately. I'd think the difference between scum and town would come after that, with town being more inquisitive and mafia not being sure what happens there because they know Woo is not mafia and maybe it's just not worth it to open that box of worms.

I've been thinking more about her now and trying to put words to the niggling doubts I've had. I think the way I'd describe what I'm feeling about her play is that it's been choppy. She's inquisitive, yes, and more aggressively so than I'd kind of expected, but I didn't actually get to interact with her in the game we 'played' together before, so my expectations could just be off there.

But I'm not really sure that the inquisitiveness is natural. It at times feels like it cuts off abruptly rather than keep delving and having conversations. I've a few times thought that Aisa and I were going to discuss something, but then the subject just gets dropped and perhaps picked up at a much later point. Like my apparent failure to locate the quote about implosion she was talking about. This feels potentially like she's holding on to things for a more opportune moment to shift the game. It's even more concerning when I think back to our previous game, where I came in and townbinned her for a post where she complained about not getting an answer to a question for a very long time and thus having practically forgotten why she asked in the first place. It doesn't seem like the same pace which she is inquiring into things here.

[fireisredsir]

ydra whats your read on me independent of sheep

eeeehhhhhhh
i don't think i know how to read your tonally or whatever but i think your posting day two isn't terrific, you make some weird like theoretical thoughts/worlds like where you wonder about wolves in the drivers seat and you were part of the reason skitter died given your casing and in general you've been a slot that's failed to resolve despite people trying to kill you which is a curiosity in of itself,

looking at today's wagon on you it looks like it's mostly people who are probably town voting you which is like, what are the wolves doing if you're town, i guess choosing not to kill you or being afraid of having to do it? yesterday's wagon on you is a little more seedy to me with dunn/ceph but it's like. you keep cropping up but no one wants to bite which is just ?

that doesn't say a lot but i'm unsure of how to word it, if you're a wolf i guess your partners want to keep you alive rather than defaulting to bussing, if you're town wolves probably don't want blood on their hands or are saving to kill you later where they'll be like, "oh look fire is still here :/ how did they wiggle out smh"

i wouldn't be upset if you were wagoned and killed tbqh, it avoids a lot of worst case scenarios and i have people who i know i would never wagon today and probably for most of the game so. a shrug and a thumbs down

hmmm okay that helps i guess

i was feeling concerned that it seemed like you were kinda avoiding digging into sorting me, which i wouldn't really expect from you as town, where i could see some potential scum motivation for delaying that project (for example, until after sheep flips, especially if you are scum+sheep town then you may not want to give a read on me that you may end up needing to reverse trajectory on later idk)

in theory it should probably make me feel better that you eagerly gave a full dose of thoughts rather than something cagey but i suppose if you were scum you could deduce that being cagey would not be the response that im looking for

your focus so far does seem kinda singular (ok i have meta on sheep. i want to sort sheep. i think sheep is scum. i want to lim sheep.) rather than taking everything in and solving the game overall. ik it's a lot of game but still

[fireisredsir]

i guess it's fairly likely that based on that post there were those underlying thoughts already and you just hadn't talked about them yet, which is probably +town if true

[Aisa]

Hmm fire you know my woo reaction test? Why do you find that towny?

it seemed like something that the town bunny in the field running around pushing buttons would do

there's just like an eagerness to solve the game and inquisitiveness behind it (which i think is also recognizable without meta)

it's not like it's something that's impossible for scum to fake it's just that idk if scum would even think of it?

i don't think it's a particularly strong part of my read anymore i admit i was being somewhat lazy before by townbinning mostly off that, i feel better about my reasons now

I'm not sure why it would really be harder for scum to think of this. Thinking of it simply involves seeing that Woo was apparently thinking about the vote count inaccurately. I'd think the difference between scum and town would come after that, with town being more inquisitive and mafia not being sure what happens there because they know Woo is not mafia and maybe it's just not worth it to open that box of worms.

I've been thinking more about her now and trying to put words to the niggling doubts I've had. I think the way I'd describe what I'm feeling about her play is that it's been choppy. She's inquisitive, yes, and more aggressively so than I'd kind of expected, but I didn't actually get to interact with her in the game we 'played' together before, so my expectations could just be off there.

But I'm not really sure that the inquisitiveness is natural. It at times feels like it cuts off abruptly rather than keep delving and having conversations. I've a few times thought that Aisa and I were going to discuss something, but

then the subject just gets dropped

and perhaps picked up at a much later point. Like my apparent failure to locate the quote about implosion she was talking about. This feels potentially like she's holding on to things for a more opportune moment to shift the game. It's even more concerning when I think back to our previous game, where I came in and townbinned her for a post where she complained about not getting an answer to a question for a very long time and thus having practically forgotten why she asked in the first place. It doesn't seem like the same pace which she is inquiring into things here.

Hello! Yeah I'm aware I've been doing that to people a bit, probably not just you, and it must be a bit jarring. It feels like there's a lot to think about this game and sometimes idk my attention just ends up wandering off

[Aisa]

But rest assured I always read and appreciate replies even if I don't always know what to say about them in the moment!

[fireisredsir]

aaaaaaaaaaaaa

[Aisa]

what

[fireisredsir]

i feel like my poe is really narrow to the point where basically everyone in it or almost everyone in it (if 2 scum) is scum and that stresses me out

especially bc i don't especially feel that confident that any individual one of them will flip scum

but i wouldn't want to flip anyone outside that group either

and idk what to do