Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[biancospino]

Votecount 1-VIII

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to hammer.

execution votes

SirCakez (4):

Cat Scratch Fever (444), PenguinPower (477), marcistar (492), Merlyn (543)

Merlyn (2):

Aureal (212), Roden (250)

PenguinPower (2):

camelCasedSnivy (88), meowmeow (387)

Flavor Leaf (2):

SirCakez (268), RCEnigma (407)

camelcasedSnivy (1):

Deal With The Devil (182)

Not voting (2):

Random Nurse, Flavor Leaf

projects votes

Bureau of Investigations (4):

Aureal (110), meowmeow (258), camelCasedSnivy (259), SirCakez (267)

Trading Outpost (3):

PenguinPower (86), RCEnigma (159), Merlyn (538)

Election Security (1):

Cat Scratch Fever (160)

Elected Jury (1):

marcistar (294)

Printing Press (1):

Random Nurse (345)

Intelligentia (1):

Roden (503)

Not voting (2):

Flavor Leaf, Deal With The Devil (231)

notes

• The Deadline is due in (expired on 2023-08-08 09:00:00).
  
• Random Nurse is V/LA on Thursdays, Frydays and Saturdays.

[SirCakez]

Hi cakes, big fan. What do you think about the devil hydra so far? Outside of even the direct stuff dealing with you/Marci.

For visibility cakes.

I like their posts - I haven't played too much with Drew but his posts are giving me good vibes, don't have much of a grasp on the other side of the hydra yet. It did weird me out a little that they went to bat for me w Marci but their explanation made sense when I asked.

[SirCakez]

Not voting (4): Random Nurse, HighFlyingDwarf, marcistar,

y'all need to do something

Pinged by this post - feels hypocritical, irrelevant considering how early we are and somewhat Lamist-y even

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguinpower
as much as the instant pagetop upon return is impressive, i don't think his posts are as impressive from an alignment perspective unfortunately. 378 feels kind of performative; marci has done more than most people this game and i don't think highflyingdwarf is going to start doing things because this post exists. the fact this post is kind of like, all he does after coming back with so many new posts, is concerning to me

also this means i'm not not voting

Wow how strange my townread had the exact same thought as me

[SirCakez]

I'm pretty sure my stance on votes and d1 play is both consistent and apparent so I won't be answering.

Bad memory, bad reading comprehension, and now doesn't play well with others? No wonder your mod badge was stripped from you.

You seem to have a different view of your play then others see.

-Drew

Also I know this was a joke but this reads way too aggressive to be scum imo

[SirCakez]

marci do i kind of look like the cat in your pfp

yes i love cats

i still dont like cakez LOL

so vote him?

i feel like we've been over this before...

VOTE: sircakez

What changed in between here?

[marcistar]

you continued to bore me duh

[SirCakez]

VOTE: penguin
Yeah I feel the worst about him so far

I'm feeling out a couple other reads that I want to develop more before exploring

I feel pretty good about Devil, meow, RCE, Roden and Merlyn right now, at least for day one. Everyone else is null or I'm thinking through or kinda scummy.

[SirCakez]

you continued to bore me duh

Marci be like Cakez dance for me or I'll lim your ass

[camelCasedSnivy]

you continued to bore me duh

what was ur reasoning for not voting earlier

[Cat Scratch Fever]

HURT: Intelligentia

I was originally thinking we could use Intelligentia later, but when "later' finally comes around, we'll probably have better developments available tbh and might not be able to use it then

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I did have a solid town read on her, but her posting last night/yesterday had me waivering some. Did you miss that?

-Drew

yeah I know you guys had a dustup about asking her to explain her Marci read, but wasn't that cleared up after she explained the read?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Cakez have you played with Penguin before?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I did have a solid town read on her, but her posting last night/yesterday had me waivering some. Did you miss that?

-Drew

yeah I know you guys had a dustup about asking her to explain her Marci read, but wasn't that cleared up after she explained the read?

Sorry looking your ISO, I realized i forgot about 441 - is this the reason for your continued doubts there instead of the (lack of) explanation of the Marci TR?

[SirCakez]

Cakez have you played with Penguin before?

Yeah many times, no I don't care about his meta here atm

[Deal With The Devil]

Spoiler: long mech wall

Investigatives

Intelligentsia ($10,000)

-- discover number of [living] Insurgents.

Might suggest that the number of Insurgents is not 3, but likely will not be less than 3 as discussed below. Could also be related to the possibility of flips being suppressed, as was hinted at in 149. I think this would be good to use at some point, but I don't think it should be or needs to be today as we may get more use out of it later on.

Autopsy ($10,000)

-- discover alignment of a dead target.

This is useless today because no one is dead.

Inquiry ($40,000)

-- discover if the mod has ever lied.

First of all, why does this cost so much money? This seems like a scam.
If we are going to use it, it's best to do it today or tomorrow so that we actually get some usefulness out of it, but I have my doubts it's worth it anyway. It doesn't seem that strong to me.

Census ($50,000)

-- discover if, among five targets, exactly two are Insurgents. This project can't be bought unless 8 players are alive and at most one Insurgent is dead.

Suggests that the number of Insurgents is >2 because it finds if exactly two players are Insurgents and can be used if one Insurgent is dead.
Census/Intelligentsia is also a pretty good combo to use in the midgame when one Insurgent is dead. If the number of living Insurgents is 2, we either know both of them are in a POE of 5, which confirms a minimum of 3 people due to the restriction that 8 people must be alive to take a Census, or we know at least one of them is outside the POE of 5, which is still valuable information. If it's not 2, then this isn't quite as strong, but it's still somewhat informative.
Idk how I feel about maxing out the budget though. I'm thinking that since money we spend can end up financing Them, it might be good to try to get things done as cheaply as possible while still buying two projects each day.

Voting Manipulation

Mayor Election ($10,000)

-- one Utopian is elected Mayor, and their vote (both for execution and for projects) is worth one-and-a-half for the rest of the game. The Mayor can be deposed during Days if a simple majority agrees. If a new Mayor is elected, the previous one is deposed.

I don't see this as especially useful.

Election Security ($10,000)

-- tomorrow, there will be no voting tricks (all vote weights will be one, secret extra votes won't count, etc.).

This is just a good thing to have in general. I wouldn't be opposed if we don't have a better plan.

Appointed Jury ($20,000)

-- 3 targets Utopians get a PT during the next Day to decide for an extra shared vote to cast for execution.

This is just meh.
I think someone mentioned that the PT would be more useful than the vote though. There could be something to that.

Injunction ($30,000)

-- [execution votes cast by] target Utopian will be worth only one-half tomorrow. This project can only be bought if there are at least 5 players.

This doesn't seem to do very much, and if someone is suspicious enough that we feel the need to reduce their vote weight, we should probably just execute them. Executing them gives us a flip, maybe gets rid of an Insurgent, allows us to purchase a stronger ability, and doesn't cost us $30K.

Miscellanea

Sacrifice ($0)

-- if target Utopian is not an Insurgent, they die and town gets $20,000 more in tomorrow's budget.

Already talked about this one, will requote the interaction. I don't think it's a good idea today.

I don't think Sacrifice is a good idea to use today. I would rather wait until we have a collective POE and we know what we want to do with the money, potentially after some upgrades. If we do use Sacrifice and hit scum, we can use Assassination to get the double kill and don't have to burn money on an Autopsy. That plan is better if we have Trading Outpost though because then we don't give the Insurgence a guaranteed $20k.

- Alianna

I agree with a lot of this, but where are you getting that the 20K goes to the insurgents if we don't get it?

If we hit scum with a Sacrifice, we don't get the $20K bonus and therefore only have $60K to spend the next day. Assassination costs $60K, so if we were to use it to kill the confscum, which would be the most efficient way to use an Assassination due to the lack of flip not mattering, we would only be able to do that one project and setup-specific rule 7 would kick in. Increasing the budget would prevent this problem from happening.
Mind you, we also don't know how much money the Insurgence gets when we do spend it on projects. So idk.

- Alianna

Raffle ($10,000)

-- 50% chance that a random Citizen gets a fruit.

This might not be as terrible as we think it is, actually. Scum can claim it, but it's a gamble because it creates a 50/50 if town gets it and we just eliminate both players. Even if we only get one claim, we could still get something AI out of the way it's claimed. It's not

great

though. It's something to use if we don't have anything better or we're spending a lot of money elsewhere.

Neighborhood Watch ($20,000)

-- tomorrow, Insurgents have no daytalk.

I'm biased because this would screw me up badly, but I think this option is good and we should use it at some point in the game, potentially more than once. Do keep in mind that we can use non-development projects twice.

Marriage ($20,000)

-- two Utopians are united in marriage (if any of them is already married, they divorce first). They gain access to a Spouses' PT. When one of them dies for any reason, the other dies of a broken heart.

This is a great way to kill off two sus people in a day, for 1/3 the price of Assassination. It just takes longer.

Developments

Bureau of Investigations ($20,000)

-- unlocks more investigative projects.

This could be valuable.

Board of Elections ($10,000)

-- unlocks more voting manipulation projects.

Meh. We can probably do better.

Guildhall ($20,000)

-- unlocks more miscellanea projects.

Same as the Bureau, I'd be happy with either one today.

Trading Outpost ($20,000)

-- ups the daily budget to $70,000.

I have a feeling we might need this in the future, but I would rather get it after we've unlocked some upgrades and we know what we want to do with $70K.

Printing Press ($20,000)

-- the Journal will also publish a page detailing future projects, hinting at currently locked higher-tier actions.

Could this be useful to tell us what we might get with the upgrades? Sure. But it takes up a day that we could use to just get the upgrades, and I think it has the potential to mislead us. The Journal page could make certain categories look stronger or weaker than they really are, depending on which projects are discussed and how the Journal spins things. Or maybe scum can outright mess with it. We can only do one development per day, so I would rather get started on actually unlocking more projects than spend a day to obtain information that will likely be ambiguous (note the word "hinting") and could easily be unreliable.

Assassination ($60,000)

-- Kill target Utopian with no flip. This action is guaranteed to go through exactly as planned.

Not today, but a vig shot is pretty strong. As I brought up earlier, this would be a good way to resolve a "failed" Sacrifice. That last part also suggests that other actions aren't guaranteed to go through as planned. The fact that it's so expensive compared to other killing methods makes me think there's a significant risk of our actions getting sabotaged.

TL;DR:
- Investigatives will be stronger later
- Voting Manipulation is meh
- Miscellanea has some good stuff, namely Neighbourhood Watch and Marriage
- Bureau of Investigations and Guildhall are strong contenders for today
- Trading Outpost can wait
- Printing Press is a waste of time

I will do this for now...

HURT: Bureau of Investigations

...but the entire town will need to coordinate to get two projects voted in. I could also switch to Guildhall if we think that might be better. I'm currently undecided on what the best second project is, input would be appreciated.

- Alianna

[Aureal]

This is a great way to kill off two sus people in a day, for 1/3 the price of Assassination. It just takes longer.

This seems like a good way to use Marriage except I have doubts about how well we'd be able to implement it since it's voted in by its voters. How likely is it that there's going to be two consensus most sus people to use it on to whom we can leash the committee?

Not today, but a vig shot is pretty strong. As I brought up earlier, this would be a good way to resolve a "failed" Sacrifice. That last part also suggests that other actions aren't guaranteed to go through as planned. The fact that it's so expensive compared to other killing methods makes me think there's a significant risk of our actions getting sabotaged.

If are projects are this underwhelming and also have significant risk of not even working...

This game is kind of depressing.

[Deal With The Devil]

This is a great way to kill off two sus people in a day, for 1/3 the price of Assassination. It just takes longer.

This seems like a good way to use Marriage except I have doubts about how well we'd be able to implement it since it's voted in by its voters. How likely is it that there's going to be two consensus most sus people to use it on to whom we can leash the committee?

I don't think it's that unrealistic. Depends on how chaotic the gamestate is, I guess.

Not today, but a vig shot is pretty strong. As I brought up earlier, this would be a good way to resolve a "failed" Sacrifice. That last part also suggests that other actions aren't guaranteed to go through as planned. The fact that it's so expensive compared to other killing methods makes me think there's a significant risk of our actions getting sabotaged.

If are projects are this underwhelming and also have significant risk of not even working...

This game is kind of depressing.

Yeah, that is depressing.
This is why I want to unlock more projects.

- Alianna

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Guildhall seems a bit like a crapshoot tbh

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Suggests that the number of Insurgents is >2 because it finds if exactly two players are Insurgents and can be used if one Insurgent is dead.
Census/Intelligentsia is also a pretty good combo to use in the midgame when one Insurgent is dead. If the number of living Insurgents is 2, we either know both of them are in a POE of 5, which confirms a minimum of 3 people due to the restriction that 8 people must be alive to take a Census, or we know at least one of them is outside the POE of 5, which is still valuable information. If it's not 2, then this isn't quite as strong, but it's still somewhat informative.
Idk how I feel about maxing out the budget though. I'm thinking that since money we spend can end up financing Them, it might be good to try to get things done as cheaply as possible while still buying two projects each day.

This is an interesting idea. We'd have to do Intelligentia first though to get the feedback from that and then see if Census is worth it the next day

What did you think about choosing that today as our secondary choice because we might have other stuff we want to do later on?

[Deal With The Devil]

Suggests that the number of Insurgents is >2 because it finds if exactly two players are Insurgents and can be used if one Insurgent is dead.
Census/Intelligentsia is also a pretty good combo to use in the midgame when one Insurgent is dead. If the number of living Insurgents is 2, we either know both of them are in a POE of 5, which confirms a minimum of 3 people due to the restriction that 8 people must be alive to take a Census, or we know at least one of them is outside the POE of 5, which is still valuable information. If it's not 2, then this isn't quite as strong, but it's still somewhat informative.
Idk how I feel about maxing out the budget though. I'm thinking that since money we spend can end up financing Them, it might be good to try to get things done as cheaply as possible while still buying two projects each day.

This is an interesting idea. We'd have to do Intelligentia first though to get the feedback from that and then see if Census is worth it the next day

What did you think about choosing that today as our secondary choice because we might have other stuff we want to do later on?

That's probably a better way to do it than what I had originally imagined. I'm certainly not opposed.

- Alianna

[Flavor Leaf]

I''ll try to spend some time here tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Does census not work if the number of insurgents among 5 is +/-2?

[biancospino]

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[biancospino]

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