Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[meowmeow]

What’s everyone’s case on Penguin? I don’t see much anything AI, and it feels like they got pushed for their pop in a while back, which I didn’t feel anything inherently wrong with.

i was mostly just pinged by like, independently of opinions over whether votes are the only important thing or not - i don't really understand that perspective at all but it's not ai - penguin just coming in after being prodded and telling other people to do something. in hindsight, i guess since penguin was already voting maybe by his worldview he was doing just as much as anyone else? but it struck me the wrong way. i think like, even if you don't care for cases or long posts, usually in order to parse the thread and decide who you want to vote the most, you might want to ask questions or give some one liners or whatever. and i would have expected after being present for the first few pages, and then gone while the game built up,

that being said, i recently looked over a few recentish pp games, and i think generally as scum he doesn't engage any less, which lightened my read enough to vote for someone else and so i voted devil. tbh i'm not like immensely confident on devil being scum either, but i think they're a fine vote for the time being

With Devil, I think I’m Vibing with Drew more than I have in any game before, just kind of casually, and I’m just not seeing ill intent there like I am with some other slots. Like for instance, i don’t think they have a reason to town read me here as scum unless they want me to push a misfade, and turn on me later, but i just don’t get that vibe at all.

Usually they discredit me when they’re scum

how many games do you have with scum drew, and have you brought this pattern up before? like, there could be something here if it's a pattern over a large number of games and he wasn't aware of this being his meta beforehand. but in most circumstances, i would expect that scum give out a lot of townreads without needing a strong reason to? and if they're afraid of you, townreading you seems pretty sensible

on the vibes, shrug, i can't exactly argue with that, i just haven't had the same experience reading drew posts this game

[meowmeow]

What’s everyone’s case on Penguin? I don’t see much anything AI, and it feels like they got pushed for their pop in a while back, which I didn’t feel anything inherently wrong with.

i was mostly just pinged by like, independently of opinions over whether votes are the only important thing or not - i don't really understand that perspective at all but it's not ai - penguin just coming in after being prodded and telling other people to do something. in hindsight, i guess since penguin was already voting maybe by his worldview he was doing just as much as anyone else? but it struck me the wrong way. i think like, even if you don't care for cases or long posts, usually in order to parse the thread and decide who you want to vote the most, you might want to ask questions or give some one liners or whatever. and i would have expected something after being present for the first few pages, and then gone while the game built up.

that being said, i recently looked over a few recentish pp games, and i think generally as scum he doesn't engage any less, which lightened my read enough to vote for someone else and so i voted devil. tbh i'm not like immensely confident on devil being scum either, but i think they're a fine vote for the time being

With Devil, I think I’m Vibing with Drew more than I have in any game before, just kind of casually, and I’m just not seeing ill intent there like I am with some other slots. Like for instance, i don’t think they have a reason to town read me here as scum unless they want me to push a misfade, and turn on me later, but i just don’t get that vibe at all.

Usually they discredit me when they’re scum

how many games do you have with scum drew, and have you brought this pattern up before? like, there could be something here if it's a pattern over a large number of games and he wasn't aware of this being his meta beforehand. but in most circumstances, i would expect that scum give out a lot of townreads without needing a strong reason to? and if they're afraid of you, townreading you seems pretty sensible

on the vibes, shrug, i can't exactly argue with that, i just haven't had the same experience reading drew posts this game

minor ebwop

[RCEnigma]

I don’t have any lingering questions atm about meow town.
I also have csf town if I were to order reads. But they are in a null area in my head if that makes sense. I kind of just nod along to their posting because it looks and sounds good not that I necessarily agree with what’s being said. I’ve come across this before where CSF was town but I don’t know if it’s CSF!town indicative or CSF indicative. Would not elim today though.

Disagree on Drew’s hydra, if I had another vote it’s there.

This comes off a bit like you want to dissuade FL from townreading me, but if you tr me anyway, why bother writing it... am I missing something?

You were just the slot that he had highest that I don’t remember him saying anything about. Wanted to know where it came from and where my read on you was at. I don’t like…solidly townread you but I do recall your towngame being similar. Others might have better meta reads or experience with you.

[meowmeow]

I also remember he said he’s going to town hunt bc he didn't have scumreads, but then I don’t really remember him doing much of that. He threw one tr at Roden and that was kind of just it.

i like this post. i was kind of town-leaning on the way cakez didn't go through the motions? in the sense that i thought scum cakez wouldn't have much trouble finding someone he could push and then bullying them. i can see a scum cakez much more easily through the angle of 'he's going through the motions to play up the act of not having reads'

[RCEnigma]

I feel like it's a complete waste of time talking to you since you just called my cancelled Penguin push scummy then admitted you haven't even read a Penguin post

I meant to answer the questions/concerns last night, but then got tired and the bed called my name(530 am wake up call).

Just seemed over the top to me and trying to find any angle to discredit FL. I hate when someones defense is finding even the tiniest of smoking guns, and I get getting upset(town or scum). But I also feel Cakez showed signs of frustration being run up as scum, even if he doesn't agree with the reasoning......trust me I have been there.

And I came after FL initially because I thought I could suss him out a bit, and it was probably more his back and forth with Cakez tbh, but I feel pretty good that I am seeing townFL.

-Drew

It seems really early for Cakez to suffer "caught for the wrong reasons" syndrome. I think he could just be flustered by Leaf's pressure.

As is prone to happening.

[meowmeow]

Simple. Scum interacting more with me gets eaten.

do you know marci? that might slightly change how i view your interactions

[Flavor Leaf]

Never played with Marci before

[meowmeow]

meowmeow is probably the towniest town to ever town.

- Alianna

hi, why do you think so?

[Deal With The Devil]

meowmeow is probably the towniest town to ever town.

- Alianna

hi, why do you think so?

Dang it, now I actually have to explain the read I posted.
It's kind of just...everything? I could pull any towny-sounding word out of the dictionary and it would probably apply to your play this game. You look like you're really making an effort to understand where people are coming from.

Spoiler: relevant quote

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

I cannot wrap my head around what this is trying to say about how to read marci. Don't pressure her. Read her 'normally' (whatever that is) but

don't

read her 'normally'. What do we do? This explanation makes me feel like we're just not supposed to try.

what do you mean we're not supposed to try? i literally give a read on marci in this exact post. she's difficult to read, and i think i should be able to acknowledge that without it being taken as 'you should never try to read marci'

if you read like any marci game i'm sure you can figure out what i mean by 'reading normally'. this is her last game on the site. in this game she is town and posts a bit normally at the start of the game, drops off a cliff, gives one townread repeatedly without elaborating much, people pressure her for it and she lashes out and it's all very meh. i don't think i'm wrong to say i don't want to pressure her exactly. if i vote for her it'll be because i think she's scum and want her dead, not because i think it'll be productive in itself.

i'm not forcing you to do anything, and i acknowledge the way marci plays is difficult to read, but i'm not going to put on blinders and miseliminate her for the same things over and over again. i think that would be silly. most of how i am going about it is how i'd sort anyone else - which is what i mean by reading normally - but when it comes to overtly scummy things like her cakez read being bleh or her being unnecessarily antagonistic to rile people up or whatever, i don't want to scumread her for that. will this work? who knows! but it's what i'm going to try unless i think there's something better.

This is the interaction that made me want to bring it up. You really don't need to say this as scum, unless maybe you're scum

with

marci, but that is statistically less likely and I'm not feeling scum!marci anyway, so I don't think I'll focus on that scenario. If you're scum and you think marci will react badly/make the game messier/make herself look worse under pressure, it makes more sense to me to add to the pressure, or at least not to reveal all that information that points away from marci!scum. I realize I may be lacking context with this assumption, but you seem to be an alt so I'm assuming scum!you wouldn't necessarily have to worry about other players knowing you have meta on them and adjust your fake reads accordingly (which could otherwise explain you making that post as scum).

[Deal With The Devil]

meowmeow is probably the towniest town to ever town.

- Alianna

hi, why do you think so?

Dang it, now I actually have to explain the read I posted.
It's kind of just...everything? I could pull any towny-sounding word out of the dictionary and it would probably apply to your play this game.

You look like you're really making an effort to understand where people are coming from.

Spoiler: relevant quote

i think marci hasn't really been scummy, and there have been things i found town indicative. i'm not really interested in pressuring there to get a better read, because i think marci tends to react really badly to pressure and it makes the game messier and isn't necessarily actually helpful (sorry marci)

she's a hard slot to read because she tends to play in a more actively pro-town way as scum but reading her that way just means if she tries to like play to her wincon and stuff she gets punished for it which feels bad. i think the best approach is to read her mostly normally but keep in mind she can and often does stuff as town which most people find scummy. it's a hard balance to strike because it's not like the meta is super reliable at all but i don't think reading her normally is that likely to work either

it's probably worth noting that roden said earlier he townreads marci for slaying, which means scum marci is more likely to go out of her way to slay in this game?

I cannot wrap my head around what this is trying to say about how to read marci. Don't pressure her. Read her 'normally' (whatever that is) but

don't

read her 'normally'. What do we do? This explanation makes me feel like we're just not supposed to try.

what do you mean we're not supposed to try? i literally give a read on marci in this exact post. she's difficult to read, and i think i should be able to acknowledge that without it being taken as 'you should never try to read marci'

if you read like any marci game i'm sure you can figure out what i mean by 'reading normally'. this is her last game on the site. in this game she is town and posts a bit normally at the start of the game, drops off a cliff, gives one townread repeatedly without elaborating much, people pressure her for it and she lashes out and it's all very meh. i don't think i'm wrong to say i don't want to pressure her exactly. if i vote for her it'll be because i think she's scum and want her dead, not because i think it'll be productive in itself.

i'm not forcing you to do anything, and i acknowledge the way marci plays is difficult to read, but i'm not going to put on blinders and miseliminate her for the same things over and over again. i think that would be silly. most of how i am going about it is how i'd sort anyone else - which is what i mean by reading normally - but when it comes to overtly scummy things like her cakez read being bleh or her being unnecessarily antagonistic to rile people up or whatever, i don't want to scumread her for that. will this work? who knows! but it's what i'm going to try unless i think there's something better.

This is the interaction that made me want to bring it up. You really don't need to say this as scum, unless maybe you're scum

with

marci, but that is statistically less likely and I'm not feeling scum!marci anyway, so I don't think I'll focus on that scenario. If you're scum and you think marci will react badly/make the game messier/make herself look worse under pressure, it makes more sense to me to add to the pressure, or at least not to reveal all that information that points away from marci!scum. I realize I may be lacking context with this assumption, but you seem to be an alt so I'm assuming scum!you wouldn't necessarily have to worry about other players knowing you have meta on them and adjust your fake reads accordingly (which could otherwise explain you making that post as scum).

950 is a great example of this imo.

(also, this read on you is entirely my own, I don't know if Drew has an updated read on you at all, but he did have you as top town last time he talked about you in hydra chat)

- Alianna

[camelCasedSnivy]

eh i havent acknowledged meowmeow at all

[Deal With The Devil]

(also, this read on you is entirely my own, I don't know if Drew has an updated read on you at all, but he did have you as top town last time he talked about you in hydra chat)

Minor edit, but that was meant to say "for what it's worth" at the end there, I just forgot to finish the sentence.

- Alianna

[meowmeow]

This is the interaction that made me want to bring it up. You really don't need to say this as scum, unless maybe you're scum

with

marci, but that is statistically less likely and I'm not feeling scum!marci anyway, so I don't think I'll focus on that scenario. If you're scum and you think marci will react badly/make the game messier/make herself look worse under pressure, it makes more sense to me to add to the pressure, or at least not to reveal all that information that points away from marci!scum. I realize I may be lacking context with this assumption, but you seem to be an alt so I'm assuming scum!you wouldn't necessarily have to worry about other players knowing you have meta on them and adjust your fake reads accordingly (which could otherwise explain you making that post as scum).

i don't think scum me would want to play on the assumption my identity would stay hidden the whole time but i think this is a believable read to have

[Deal With The Devil]

This is the interaction that made me want to bring it up. You really don't need to say this as scum, unless maybe you're scum

with

marci, but that is statistically less likely and I'm not feeling scum!marci anyway, so I don't think I'll focus on that scenario. If you're scum and you think marci will react badly/make the game messier/make herself look worse under pressure, it makes more sense to me to add to the pressure, or at least not to reveal all that information that points away from marci!scum. I realize I may be lacking context with this assumption, but you seem to be an alt so I'm assuming scum!you wouldn't necessarily have to worry about other players knowing you have meta on them and adjust your fake reads accordingly (which could otherwise explain you making that post as scum).

i don't think scum me would want to play on the assumption my identity would stay hidden the whole time but i think this is a believable read to have

That is the one problem I see with my read, but I still read you town without it.

- Alianna

[meowmeow]

oh, i don't think i actually responded to this. i know the one online is alianna and can't respond but like oh well

I feel like it's a complete waste of time talking to you since you just called my cancelled Penguin push scummy then admitted you haven't even read a Penguin post

I meant to answer the questions/concerns last night, but then got tired and the bed called my name(530 am wake up call).

Just seemed over the top to me and trying to find any angle to discredit FL. I hate when someones defense is finding even the tiniest of smoking guns, and I get getting upset(town or scum). But I also feel Cakez showed signs of frustration being run up as scum, even if he doesn't agree with the reasoning......trust me I have been there.

And I came after FL initially because I thought I could suss him out a bit, and it was probably more his back and forth with Cakez tbh, but I feel pretty good that I am seeing townFL.

-Drew

how do you differentiate 'town being frustrated at getting voted for bad reasons' from 'scum being frustrated at getting voted for bad reasons'?
can you elaborate on why you think cakez was like, trying to find any angle to discredit FL, and how does this work along with the idea that he's getting angry at being pushed for bad reasons?

[meowmeow]

eh i havent acknowledged meowmeow at all

what does this mean? like are you just not reading my posts or something

[camelCasedSnivy]

havent tried to make a read on you

[meowmeow]

i townread marci leaf
townlean includes meowmeow and aureal
null is everyone else but notably devil
scumlean is merlyn rce and cakez
scum is penguin and snivy

?

[camelCasedSnivy]

yeah but i put myself as scum so obviously i was irrational there

genuinely forgot i made that read but its there ig

[marcistar]

wait i didnt even notice that lol

[meowmeow]

you are truly a master at being scummy

how do you forget a read like that? i mean i get forgetting posts but aren't reads just like, idk, in your brain and integral to how you view other players

[meowmeow]

i almost wanted to townread it but i think that's overthinking

do you have any scum games? something from another site is fine

[Deal With The Devil]

you are truly a master at being scummy

how do you forget a read like that? i mean i get forgetting posts but aren't reads just like, idk, in your brain and integral to how you view other players

I'm not camel, I'm not even townreading camel, but I definitely forget reads as town and have to go back through my own ISO to find them. Usually it happens to me with weaker reads that I don't care about or even really believe in (which is a good portion of my D1 reads tbh) but felt like I had to make for the sake of having reads.

- Alianna

[meowmeow]

i mean it definitely makes sense to forget about a read you don't care about or believe in and just made for the sake of looking towny

i tend to associate that with scum, but shrug i guess it's not far-fetched that snivy would make a townlean like that?

[Roden]

VOTE: Snivy