Large Normal 244 | Quotes From my Linear Algebra Professor or Random City Skylines or Random Songs: Town Wins!

[Psyche]

oh to be
a familiar face

[Psyche]

disproving the greeting the game tell

ooh what a fun idea
ok everyone instead of voting randomly i will now commence a sitewide study to test the hypothesis that not voting in your first post is scummy (the best operationalization of the greeting tell i can do atm)
it'll be a lot of work but i can't think of a single reason to think it's not the best possible use of my free time
please stand by for a complete outline of the methodology

VOTE: furtiveglance though bc i did another study a while ago and confirmed that expressing fun ideas in mafia games is scummy

[Psyche]

woah wait i actually do think furtive is the scummiest player here so far
let's delay explanation until page 2. page 2 has always been my lucky page and in the interim i can probably at least finish data collection

[Psyche]

serious! wow i thought i was doing a good job of conveying tone there

[Psyche]

ok ok ok let's see if i can do this

Hey everyone, looking forward to this game

I'm just disproving the greeting the game tell don't mind me

I THINK this this post represents an attempt at displacing the question of whether furtive is scummy with the question of whether the greeting tell is a worthwhile tell or not.
The answer to the latter question is easily assumed to be "no", and in this context is easy to mistake as an answer to the question of whether furtive is scummy!
but these are distinct questions
furtive you wily rascal

hmm no that's not very good, even for page 2

i think i might really find furtive scummy because his post on page 1 is a much

better

post if he's scum -- it's ironic and thus more funny. objectively!
if we assume that furtive is a person with good taste (and i think we can though only time will tell), then he is correspondingly more likely to have posted it if he were scum than if he were town.
and being more likely to come from scum than from town is what it means for an action scummy!

yeah that's better. im really proud of myself
but alas even this revised justification for my vote is not very good!
would a bored member of the audience be willing to explain why?

[Psyche]

yes its essence was clear to me from the moment i made post 18 (i think it's 18 im not going to look). indeed, i suspect my entire destiny may have been determined from the moment i decided it would be funny to hyperfixate on three words in an apparent throwaway shitpost.
but now i have one more justification for voting furtive! it's futile to say this, but this is not me doing a gish gallop. it's just an overactive imagination fueled by a caffeine addiction that i'm more than a little defensive about:
furtive's post #20 was mean. it wounded me on a deep emotional level that i'll probably need a few more pages of conversation to forget and recover from. if that kind of negative energy is allowed to persist through this game, it will only destroy us. we must destroy it first. but don't get more wrong, it's more important that we destroy scum of course. of course!

[Psyche]

in fact I can point to 19 as proof that 28 is planned and not a thoughtstream, but still this is a less than worthless tone read right now

You can point at the post where he says he plans to give reasons on p2 to prove that the post on p2 with reasons is planned, yeah

@Psyche, are you like, being this overly wordy as a joke or something? I think it is some absurdist joke

caffeine yo. hell of a drug. pls wagon furtive with me. for the absurdist joke.

[Psyche]

fate and chance both on my side

[Psyche]

Who’d be opposed to me just coasting through the game giving me lol thoughts on players and pop culture storytelling until like Day 3 or 4

frankly i found your review of the live action one piece pretty superficial. up your game and i'll help you survive the game's first episode of post-mislim fingerpointing.

[Psyche]

woah wait i actually do think furtive is the scummiest player here so far
let's delay explanation until page 2. page 2 has always been my lucky page and in the interim i can probably at least finish data collection

also this doesn't exactly shout "i have a town mindset so you should not vote me"

btw gotta say this post is weird i know "too townie" is an informal fallacy but a post that exactly shouts "i have a town mindset so you should not vote me" would probably strike as a bit too on the nose for my tastes

[Psyche]

hmm i like most of seriousish votes so far. dont know where to plant my flag for real yet. but this has been nice quick progress

[Psyche]

Was going to RVS BBmolla- do you remember me? I recall you back in the day lol

But

Holy fuck Psyche. That’s too much lol.

VOTE: Psyche

hello

flavor leaf is scum

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

bye

Baa

VOTE: Flavor

ok let me that guy and ask
why?

[Psyche]

Was going to RVS BBmolla- do you remember me? I recall you back in the day lol

But

Holy fuck Psyche. That’s too much lol.

VOTE: Psyche

hello

flavor leaf is scum

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

bye

Baa

VOTE: Flavor

ok let me that guy and ask
why?

I am town core ing for apparent silly reasons and focusing more on non game related things. On top of that, it looks like I am pocketing heavily in my town core.

Which is fine. I think scum reading me for it is fair. I can see Bbm doing it as either alignment, and at the end of the day, it’s a juicy wagon to see what happens from it

it's more useful for scumhunting to let the people doing the thing explain why they're doing the thing

[Psyche]

it used to be you could quotereply a post and be sure the line spacing would just look right

[Psyche]

i used to play league but it made me a worse person with regrets and lost potential. but i'd play again anyway if it meant me and zzzx could be friends

[Psyche]

[town] and [scum] don't segment two separate lists. they label ends of a spectrum

[Psyche]

anyway i don't know how to convince you this but all my posts up to your initial "serious" accusation and most of the posts afterward weren't serious at all. i was trying to be funny via exaggerated performativity

[Psyche]

how can you be so sure

[Psyche]

do you believe scum is that scummy and would self-vote

um yeah? being incoherent and aloof is one of the most low effort styles as scum. you don't have to (pretend to scum) scumhunt, defend positions, or worry about your consistency across posts. since it can be easily as hard to distinguish lazy town from scum as to distinguish high-effort town and from scum, you barely lose anything from this strategy beyond a risk that town defaults to limming you when they can't settle on someone more positively scummy.

[Psyche]

no lich actually has a decent point there, i can’t possibly see flavor leaf giving up after a d1 wagon emerges. that’s a really weird argument to make on your part iavh

this is a non sequitor
the claim by lich is specifically that self voting makes him more

town

and this doesn't even address the relative likelihood of FL doing that as one faction or as another

[Psyche]

no lich actually has a decent point there, i can’t possibly see flavor leaf giving up after a d1 wagon emerges. that’s a really weird argument to make on your part iavh

gonna quote this as I agree with this post and it is a towny post

can you explain what makes shrek's post towny here?

[Psyche]

I'm only saying flavor leaf is town because that gambit is too scummy to be scum

What you're missing IMO is that prospect that people like you will think things like this is why scum often play this way. They can coast along and do really little and people will think there's no way they could be so daring. If a supposed towntell is really easy to perform without little effort, then it's not a very good towntell. It relies on players not being aware of the tell in the first place.

[Psyche]

i did not call incoherence scummy. it's null. it's super

easy

to be incoherent and not post substantive content. i can hardly thing of anything easier besides lurking.

[Psyche]

ugh hopeless

[Psyche]

ok one last try. answer me this: what is it about having a scum role pm that makes it impossible or harder to thoughtstream about topics with negligible relevance to the game?

[Psyche]

i feel obliged to ask one more question. what is the gambit? the self vote or something else?

[Psyche]

anyway i townread lich

[Psyche]

its just that ive coasted through soo many games as scum playing the same game flavor leaf is playing. town rarely punishes it (town coast a lot too) so it's often the optimal strategy once time constraints for game participation are taken into account. not trying at mafia is easy and fun

[Psyche]

no lich actually has a decent point there, i can’t possibly see flavor leaf giving up after a d1 wagon emerges. that’s a really weird argument to make on your part iavh

ok can you elaborate some on what you agree w lich about and why
this is a non sequitor
the claim by lich is specifically that self voting makes him more

town

and this doesn't even address the relative likelihood of FL doing that as one faction or as another

i was agreeing with lich and responding to the post above that lol

[Psyche]

ok can you elaborate some on what you agree w lich about and why

[Psyche]

i mean i mostly agree but FL is a useful device for transitioning out of RVS

[Psyche]

oh that was a reply to merylyn

[Psyche]

i think there’s a not-insignificant chance that psyche and klazam are teamed up together from klazam’s vote on him segueing into a vote on FL with zero reasoning. in this scenario if psyche IS outed klazam can point to plausible deniability with the snap vote on him

alone i very slightly scumread psyche, nothing too significant, but klazam’s behavior wrt the wagon makes a pairing likely

wow a relational tell this early very impressive

[Psyche]

i ask the questions around here. where were you on on the night of the 9th of september? in your scum pt?

[Psyche]

Because your logic this entire game has been lacklustre at best, and when I ask for more. You avoid or give the smallest amount of clarification, as if you don't got anything so you just pull whatever you can think of in the moment.

hey did you really think TL was scum/scummy at this post?

[Psyche]

Alright, so I'm at work again and will post as able soon.

Also, I'm 2-Shot Bulletproof (don't b*tch to me).

Awaiting to see how Scum respond to the news.

can someone explain why this post was made

[Psyche]

Because your logic this entire game has been lacklustre at best, and when I ask for more. You avoid or give the smallest amount of clarification, as if you don't got anything so you just pull whatever you can think of in the moment.

hey did you really think TL was scum/scummy at this post?

I did

i'm inclined not to believe you. but the later posts in your iso do look good. oh well.

anyway i think TL can come off as contrived because he's more or less following a system, a rigid and not-very-solid framework for sorting scum, being town. am inclined to think he'd be someone more diffident by this point if it were an act.

[Psyche]

wow i wonder why i feel so inclined to say im inclined lately

[Psyche]

i don't really want to move my vote on davesaz but i don't know how to advance the position further either. it's probably the point where i need to try to decide what i think about everybody. how sad that this moment has arrived so quickly

[Psyche]

wow you sure know a lot about tells

[Psyche]

The justification for the TL vote struck me as disingenuous. A potential explanation was that you were insincere but wanted to apply pressure to aid sorting. However, your reply to my question ruled out this explanation. This does correspondingly mean I find the post even more scummy than if had replied a different way. Nonetheless, you have made other posts since then that strike me the other way. So I'm not ready to stake out a position on you yet.

[Psyche]

Alright, so I'm at work again and will post as able soon.

Also, I'm 2-Shot Bulletproof (don't b*tch to me).

Awaiting to see how Scum respond to the news.

can someone explain why this post was made

What's so difficult about it?

you claimed a role? why?

[Psyche]

i am too lazy to keep trading these one liners with you im sorry

[Psyche]

humm i figured i'd be asked to enumerate the more townie posts but this reaction is a bit more high-powered than i imagined. i say you did a suspicious thing that doesn't really even make me scumlean you, but it's as if i insulted your mother.

[Psyche]

The justification for the TL vote struck me as disingenuous. A potential explanation was that you were insincere but wanted to apply pressure to aid sorting. However, your reply to my question ruled out this explanation. This does correspondingly mean I find the post even more scummy than if had replied a different way. Nonetheless, you have made other posts since then that strike me the other way. So I'm not ready to stake out a position on you yet.

You should have asked a better question. I did think they were scum, and I also wanted to apply pressure to sort them further. The two are not mutually exclusive

I don't think the fact that these two aren't mutually exclusive really changes the calculus all that much. but i guess the more precise question would have been "when you made this post, did you really believe these were good reasons to scumread TL?" But it's hard to imagine a world where you reply yes to my original simpler question but would reply no to this one or vice versa.

[Psyche]

The justification for the TL vote struck me as disingenuous. A potential explanation was that you were insincere but wanted to apply pressure to aid sorting. However, your reply to my question ruled out this explanation. This does correspondingly mean I find the post even more scummy than if had replied a different way. Nonetheless, you have made other posts since then that strike me the other way. So I'm not ready to stake out a position on you yet.

You should have asked a better question. I did think they were scum, and I also wanted to apply pressure to sort them further. The two are not mutually exclusive

I don't think the fact that these two aren't mutually exclusive really changes the calculus all that much. but i guess the more precise question would have been "when you made this post, did you really believe these were good reasons to scumread TL?" But it's hard to imagine a world where you reply yes to my original simpler question but would reply no to this one or vice versa.

Since you were asking that to see if my logic was to solve them. You should ask a question that asks if I was still trying to solve them. Not if I thought they were scummy, that does not even start to get the answers you were looking for.

No, I don't think you understand the point of the question. Interesting try though.

[Psyche]

agh there's a lot i want to reply to in jackson's multipost but now there are a lot of other posts i need to hurry along

[Psyche]

I also believe this argument of yours to be disingenuous and malicious. You give me a low bar "did you think they were scummy", which clearly I did as I directly called them a wolf at that point. I answer your question, and then you decide to call

me

disingenuous? Even if I had a weak scum-lean on them, I'd say yes to you and you'd pull this on me. That feels like you laid out a trap on me rather than actually genuinely wanting more information on my thought process

So, like, for read purposes, I don't particularly care at all how strong or weak your scumlean on TL was.
What I care about is whether you [are willing to say] you thought you believed what you were saying when you typed 303.
As you say, it was indeed very likely that you'd reply yes to my question given your posts here, but it wasn't guaranteed.
It's not uncommon at all at this state of the game for people to contrive justifications for votes as a pressure/reaction-collecting tactic.
Interpreting your 303 is easier when that possibility is ruled out.
But the only way to rule out that possibility was to have you do it for me without telegraphing too obviously that this was what I was trying to do.
So I went for a seemingly throwaway question with a low barrier to entry.
Even though the Q doesn't directly probe the information I was seeking, it created a context where you'd probably volunteer that you were merely reaction testing TL if that's what you were really doing in 303, especially since you weren't voting TL at the time.
I guess I can now imagine an even better way I could've done it, but otoh I got what I wanted. And also this exchange.

Actually, I wanna prod this a little bit more.
What posts of mine strike you the other way?

419 is the big one. I had a more positive feeling about your shift from and subsequent ambivalence around TL in posts like 415 than I do now but they altogether build confidence that you're someone who's top goal right now is to get correct opinions about who is scum. It's just that 303 doesn't give the same vibe, particularly when reaction testing is ruled out.

[Psyche]

wow you sure know a lot about tells

Actually no, it's a common trope with Psyche just attacking peoples character than any arguments

character..?

[Psyche]

Things like me saying your reaction to a post was unexpectedly hot or pointing out another player's fixation on "tells" are intended as observations rather than personal attacks. I think this stuff has some potential of informing reads down the line -- even if just in those moments where we have to decide if someone typed something a certain way because they have a scum win condition or just because of the kind of person they are.

[Psyche]

if i think something's scummy i'll say it's scummy. i'll probably be really proud about noticing the scummy thing too

[Psyche]

i still don't understand the posts where people were claiming roles and why they happened

[Psyche]

if it weren't for the protestant work ethic and the grip it holds on my soul i imagine i'd be voting FL right now

[Psyche]

Couldn't find anything especially useful in these last ten pages. How sad.

[Psyche]

so im going to try not to post during work hours from here out
i'd still be fine limming furtive by default but my page 2 case against the slot is certainly not pulitzer level
i don't want to commit too hard to producing a reads list because commitments like these have made me flakey in the past but yeah it'd be useful for me to work on one

[Psyche]

so im going to try not to post during work hours from here out
i'd still be fine limming furtive by default but my page 2 case against the slot is certainly not pulitzer level
i don't want to commit too hard to producing a reads list because commitments like these have made me flakey in the past but yeah it'd be useful for me to work on one

Funny thing is, that furtive except agreeing with you at early pages does not seem to interact with you.

is this intended to imply another relational tell thing

[Psyche]

i don't have it in me to give up on him but i don't have a hook to keep pushing him with either. it's a very tragic situation

[Psyche]

stahp

[Psyche]

I think you need to reanalyze it all, ZZZx, and realize why I think you were defending them with the Null/NAI post.

You do not have to town read push someone to be possibly defending them.

You were actively discrediting my push by pushing a NAI/Null read to nullify my reasonings for why I would have them as possible scum.

That IS defending them.

And if you can't see that, it is on you at this point.

hey uh why is clarifying this important

[Psyche]

also tone reads are less than worthless

if you scumread someone based on tone, they are likely town

i cant believe they posted this

[Psyche]

aren't like half of TL's reads tone reads

[Psyche]

1229 does a good job of making me more willing to take TL-as-scum seriously but I'm still inclined to townread them

I really don't like efforts to lim the slot based purely on policy. I mean, why not just ignore the guy's posts if they're bad? It's not like he's leading a bloc or something. We will be in the best position tomorrow if we can find and lim scum. The next best scenario is if D1 is full of posts of people purportedly trying to find and lim scum. Posts where people debate just how tedious a player's posts are and what's worth sacrificing to stop them are comparatively less useful for sorting and tend to reduce to nai theoretical quibbles.

I've been pondering the likelihood of scum using PL discussion as a substitute for the more challenging task of convincingly pretending they are trying to scumhunt. Will look further into idea sometime tonight or so before probably dissolving again into an indecisive mess.

[Psyche]

Here's some reads on lesser-talked about players:

Town
the worst
Merlyn
ZZZX

Null
Naerys
shaddowez

Scum
davesaz

cmon, elaborate
otherwise what's the point

[Psyche]

It appears I'm on an opposing schedule from most of you, I leave for the day and come back to 20ish more pages.

VOTE: the worst

this is the worst player by far

This was after T3 let us know they were V/LA in 1236. Even if you have no reads you're putting a vote where nobody else is even looking, essentially just parking for no good reason. It's not even like you're trying to get a wagon started on them since you provided no good reasoning except a pun on their name. You also vote parked on Merlyn early on for not doing anything, while not engaging.

Approximately half of your votes are fluff, and with the exception of the thin case on BBmolla none of your votes have had any semblance of logic behind them.

The random post from BB still doesn't make sense to me, but the more I think about it the less it makes sense as a slip either. Going to look at IAVH a little more before sheeping that wagon, but I'm comfortable here for now:

VOTE: camel

so, there are lot of players who have done very little of substance so far this game. why single camel out?

[Psyche]

don't exactly agree that tw's tl profile is much of a towntell. scum with decent intuitions about what makes someone look town (and tw probably has those) can fake the sort of diffidence on display there. and i honestly raised an eyebrow or two when they seemed to imply that they frequently agree with things TL says. can't even count how many times i've had to keep myself from quotereplying a TL post with something like "???"

[Psyche]

Thought it over and still scumlean BBMolla over the TL policylim push. Guess I'll move my vote but I do hope I can do better than this soon.

VOTE: BBMolla

[Psyche]

game started on the edge of the weekend. i'll be more free in a day or two. think i'm doing a good job of keeping up with reading though!

[Psyche]

Page 68 (and before) I really don't like d1 attempts to team hunt, especially in MB, but I know this is not a very popular position.

:cry: how can it not be a popular position?? who are these people thinking they can find not just one scum but two based on like one interaction and zero flips. it's just not serious. it's just not serious!!

[Psyche]

I'm not sure how to approach this game, feel like if I push a low-posting slot it's not guaranteed to reveal anything about the slot's alignment nor are there any low-posting slots where I'm like, confident they flip scum. But if I talk to active slots I'm just contributing to bloat and makes it hard to keep up :dead:

ideally you'd diversify your portfolio and push as many scummy people as you can find

[Psyche]

It's obvious to everyone except you, and therein lies the issue.

On top of that, your logic is backwards, you preach conviction and flip/forget, you OMGUS, and you tremble under pressure.

Harsh, but it is what it is.

my problem is that none of this stuff you listed are scumrells. OMGUS? people still take that seriously?

[Psyche]

I think it's wasteful to spend D1 pushing a PL in that it helps way more to lim someone who will test your ideas about what makes someone scummy. Aside from the comparative gap in info you get from the flip, posts pushing PLs aren't posts trying to sort and lim scum, so aren't as easy to read either. Above all I just think it's lazy but in the disruptive way since it attempts to divert efforts to, again, sort and lim scum when the option to just sheep someone who is trying is sitting right there. And I still think scum know all this and can tend to exploit it.

[Psyche]

don't get stuck on the Policy comment.

There is a scum opportunistic vibe to them as well all game, that we just have been clearing because 'eh maybe theyre dumb town'.

Get rid of that defense. Like get rid of that defense, and get rid of tone town reading them.

And their ISO is scum. The meta supplements their scum game too.

i don't agree that there is a "scum opportunistic" vibe to them. am not aware of posts where someone attempts to explain why this is the appropriate interpretation of his iso, while i've seen (and made) plenty arguing the contrary.

[Psyche]

yall are the ones who have been stuck on this Policy junk. i'm always responding to it only when it shows up itt like it has at least twice now.

[Psyche]

yall are the ones who have been stuck on this Policy junk. i'm always responding to it only when it shows up itt like it has at least twice now.

yeah out of everything in the game, it's all you talk about.

well, i think BBM's push of a PL in particular is scummy. in that context, i should be talking about it more.

[Psyche]

im vigging BBM

[Psyche]

Psyche and ZZZx are missing from that readslist.

They moved out their partners to place them after they did everyone else, and forgot to place them.

Their reads list is entirely political.

TL is scum.

really doubt this one believes they've found an entire scumteam from one list of names.
alternative is that flavor can be driven by pure confirmation bias and wishful thinking.
must check if this thought pattern is consistent across the thread

[Psyche]

I’ve always been a fan of policy elims d1 in large, fairly confident I’ve said this before, I think about Salamence20 in Marketplace Mafia 2/3

Policy eliminations shouldn't really be a thing. If a player breaks the rules, they should get modkilled. Otherwise, vote based on reads.

There are players who follow the rules but are detrimental to have alive as town

uhuh, sure. and BBM the vig thinks it's optimal to focus D1 on discussion of detrimental these players are instead of training his, uh, vig shot on them?

[Psyche]

and just to be clear, what the heck is TL doing that's so detrimental this game aside from being very wrong about most things?

[Psyche]

i know some people believe in advocate for policy lims all the time. i still think it's a scumtell on balance, and that BBM's push for it here is scummy. scum BBM would factor in his ability to "look up some meta" for us into his decision to play D1 this way.

[Psyche]

I’ve always been a fan of policy elims d1 in large, fairly confident I’ve said this before, I think about Salamence20 in Marketplace Mafia 2/3

Policy eliminations shouldn't really be a thing. If a player breaks the rules, they should get modkilled. Otherwise, vote based on reads.

then let's rebrand

because killing someone who is possibly town, but if they are town are in a spot where they will lose the game for town, is a thing that should happen.

I've had a game where if I had vigged the IC like I wanted to, town would have won the game

possibly town! you think you've found an entire scumteam. if that's true, then maybe shifting from the policy lim polemics to getting the town on board about the whole scumteam you've found would a better use of your time at this point

[Psyche]

I’ve always been a fan of policy elims d1 in large, fairly confident I’ve said this before, I think about Salamence20 in Marketplace Mafia 2/3

Policy eliminations shouldn't really be a thing. If a player breaks the rules, they should get modkilled. Otherwise, vote based on reads.

There are players who follow the rules but are detrimental to have alive as town

uhuh, sure. and BBM the vig thinks it's optimal to focus D1 on discussion of detrimental these players are instead of training his, uh, vig shot on them?

If we policy elim the vigbaits I can spend my time shooting scum

so you'll magically find the will to try sorting scum once night falls! fascinating

[Psyche]

Psyche it’s not scummy, I linked a town game up there with me doing it, do you want me to find more? This is consistent NAI logic that I believe.

Not voting you just because you believe in policy lims. Voting you for how you've pushed one here.

[Psyche]

Psyche and ZZZx are missing from that readslist.

They moved out their partners to place them after they did everyone else, and forgot to place them.

Their reads list is entirely political.

TL is scum.

really doubt this one believes they've found an entire scumteam from one list of names.
alternative is that flavor can be driven by pure confirmation bias and wishful thinking.
must check if this thought pattern is consistent across the thread

i doubt you doubt it.

I said at the present, until something confirms that it is not true, TL has scum slipped their entire team by leaving exactly you and ZZZx out of it.

It helps I already believe ZZZx is scum, and I was already thinking you were defending TL a lot this game.

And TL doesn't do well under pressure, so I can def believe they were trying to politically place all the townies (or other team, they just dont know).

TL is scum because of how political their reads are.

The idea that you can find scumteams based on such scant evidence just doesn't pass any muster. It's silly. Maybe one benefit of limming TL is that you'd see how silly it is sooner rather than later.

[Psyche]

and just to be clear, what the heck is TL doing that's so detrimental this game aside from being very wrong about most things?

LOL

When TL is in final three someone quote this lmao

You're a vig, right? So isn't that impossible?

[Psyche]

i know some people believe in advocate for policy lims all the time. i still think it's a scumtell on balance, and that BBM's push for it here is scummy. scum BBM would factor in his ability to "look up some meta" for us into his decision to play D1 this way.

Just like I asked Temp when they tried to do this,

You need to back this up.

Show me where Policy lim advocates have come from scum.

i've laid out at least twice here why i think it's scummy. the belief is not rooted in a meta dive, but in the reasoning i provided.

[Psyche]

also, it wouldnt be the first time I catch a group of multiple scum on Day 1, Psyche.

I caught 4 out of 6 scum Day 1 in TENET years back, and they put all their resources into getting rid of me.

do you play a lot of mafia?

[Psyche]

pocketing me is not going to make me want to townread you, Psyche

how is it not obvious by this point that i don't care about your read on me

[Psyche]

I’ve always been a fan of policy elims d1 in large, fairly confident I’ve said this before, I think about Salamence20 in Marketplace Mafia 2/3

Policy eliminations shouldn't really be a thing. If a player breaks the rules, they should get modkilled. Otherwise, vote based on reads.

then let's rebrand

because killing someone who is possibly town, but if they are town are in a spot where they will lose the game for town, is a thing that should happen.

I've had a game where if I had vigged the IC like I wanted to, town would have won the game

possibly town! you think you've found an entire scumteam. if that's true, then maybe shifting from the policy lim polemics to getting the town on board about the whole scumteam you've found would a better use of your time at this point

This is semi impossible

At normal playercounts you do this via discussion, but discussing at this playercount leads to 200+ pages which leads to inactivity.

We’re all just going to putt around until deadline and we all jump on whatever wagon has 4-5 people on it so we can feasibly get a lim.

Day one lims are going to probably be town regardless so why not eliminate the most anti-town players and go to night

Hence why I believe in policy

galaxy brain fatalism about the possibility of sorting scum D1 but not about policy lims

but honestly there's no benefit to getting to the theoretical minutae here. i believe you think PLs are a good idea! i still think the way you've done it here is scummy

[Psyche]

Psyche say what you want, the fact of the matter is the ending of today is gonna go in two ways:

1). We scramble in the final hours to wagon some player and they claim VT and die

2). We scramble in the final hours to wagon some player and they claim PR and we try to wagon someone else without a claim to prevent a NL

I’ll quote this once we get there

i just don't think this amounts to a reasonable justification for not trying to play the game
and further, i think acting like it is makes for a really convenient excuse for scum

[Psyche]

Psyche is scumconf'd from TL until proven they're not, though.

is not what "scumconf" means. if someone is confirmed scum, then it should be impossible the opposite to be proven. just another unserious post

[Psyche]

this sort of hyperbole about read strength is supposed to be TL's thing

[Psyche]

Psyche is scumconf'd from TL until proven they're not, though.

82 page game and their only reads are hard defense of TL, scum read of BBm off one trivial thing like pushing for a Policy, and then their waffling on me aimlessly.

Why do they decide to get all hot and bothered now?

Simple. Scum with TL.

- It's because I think BBM is scummy. This is me finding a scumread and trying to push it.
- Are you implying I'm hot and bothered because I'm worried TL will be limmed? IIrc slot has like two votes on it.

[Psyche]

Though yeah I do find the PL push annoying, separately from the scumread thing. But I wouldn't be reacting much to the PL push at all if I didn't find it scummy, particularly since it's not like lots of people are rolling with it.

[Psyche]

He’s doing the one two hit zingers, and when i throw down a flame boiled big ol streak charred broiler, they just move on

i just don't find your arguments as impressive or interesting as you want to say they are

[Psyche]

i imagine this won't be the last game where you namedrop that one game where you found 4 scum on D1
won't be fair if you don't mention this game's D1 too

[Psyche]

i imagine this won't be the last game where you namedrop that one game where you found 4 scum on D1
won't be fair if you don't mention this game's D1 too

Probably not, but i got lots of games so can cycle through where I caught a lot of scum over the near decade I’ve consistently been here

and all the games where you didn't but decided don't count

[Psyche]

is interesting new information that you are very experienced though. makes the confbias stuff more striking.

[Psyche]

I drafted a really pretentious post quoting aristotle's take on young people and all to explore the idea that this overshooting is scummy but honestly yeah I can totally take that I should just take your posts very seriously.

[Psyche]

just not take

[Psyche]

id forgotten that you were the live action one piece guy

[Psyche]

find your wallpost kind of self-indulgent and frequently incorrect. still think it's antitown to misrepresent your confidence in a read and then when pressed reminding everyone that ur a silly person, but atm i do find it likely that you're doing it as town here.

[Psyche]

sorry ill be straight up. i absolutely think you're town. not likely i shift from this read ever tbh

find your wallpost kind of self-indulgent and frequently incorrect. still think it's antitown to misrepresent your confidence in a read and then when pressed reminding everyone that ur a silly person, but atm i do find it likely that you're doing it as town here.

I think you missed the point of it if you’re trying to act like self-indulgence isn’t supposed to be there

oh i get that. my post was probably part of that pattern of "shade" jv was complaining about earlier

[Psyche]

I don’t misrepresent confidence, i just am.

You called 3 people confirmed scum. You don't really believe these 3 people are confirmed scum. You've admitted as much repeatedly at this point. So you do misrepresent confidence. Even if maybe you just don't know what "confirmed scum" means, that would just mean you misrepresent confidence

inadvertently

.

[Psyche]

So I guess I feel like I should ask if TL is doing this same of thing? When TL calls someone town because they made a joke is this same kind of thing as FL's schtick?

[Psyche]

Not liking TL's posts so far.

I think most of the playerlist is absolutely drowning. I honestly want this day to end, so we can have somethign concrete to start discussions from.

ZX ill look at

^Psyche this is most of our player list right now

were not gonna even be able to fully hunt because a lot of the town can't even catch up

posting less is the most pro-town move I could do right now

sure man. great job being so pro town

[Psyche]

i scrolled through iso and can "see" zzzx being scum in like a "it's always the person you most medium suspect sort of way" but that's it. jealous of people with the negative capability necessary to roll with that

[Psyche]

feel i should underscore that the above was not intended as shade. "negative capability" is a romanticism era concept i am hyperfixated on lately

[Psyche]

reads as another self defeating excuse for not scumhunting

[Psyche]

is it common for people to believe that these "last will and testament" posts are ever influential after the player making them dies

[Psyche]

i guess im in a bad mood. it feels like a game of tag where no one's in the mood to run. suppose if i want to have fun my best bet is to match the vibe but

[Psyche]

To me when a player self-votes it's usually Scum doing this. Town has no valid reason for self-voting. Scum does.

I was thinking it is Town who would self-vote

Please explain this thought process to me in detail.

scum wouldn't want to self-vote as it would be too risky and bring attention

town can afford to make risky and flashy plays

- zzzx is already guaranteed attention. the slot by far has the most votes on it and deadline is coming up
- scum frequently benefit from risky and flashy plays because of this exact impression. are you familiar with the concept of WIFOM?

[Psyche]

is it common for people to believe that these "last will and testament" posts are ever influential after the player making them dies

Well, whether people follow it or not, I like to believe I did my due diligence, such as that if the game is lost because everyone sheeped those who I said are mafia, I can have that bit of self satisfaction that I

told you so

i don't know how you can think you did your due diligence while going out of your way to facilitate a supposed mislim
even re: self-satisfaction, can't imagine that your self satisfaction in this scenario would not be better maximized if you were limmed with your vote actually on scum
but all this is beside the question of whether you're actually town i guess
zzzzzzz

[Psyche]

small dig into zzzx's meta around self-votes indicates plenty readiness to self-vote as town based on similar reasoning to the above, but also as scum presumably to deny information. so in isolation the self vote is NAI. coooool

[Psyche]

somewhat deeper dig leads me to even say it's more common for zzzx to do this self-vote-and-bargain thing as town. as scum, the self-votes are terse hammers.
don't relish saying it i'd probably bet he's town in this scenario. i'd invite anyone on his wagon to take their own look. will look askance at people who don't tbh
but yall don't wanna hear me you just wanna dance

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keyw ... uthor=zzzx
search.php?keywords=%22vote%3A+zzzx%22& ... mit=Search

[Psyche]

does anyone have something against ivah beyond active lurking? with 4 days left that's maybe ok but i'm wondering

[Psyche]

I don't really think self voting is that ai for him:

Define 'basically save'.

If it is 'would get me town read for multiple days' then the answer is 'yes, I would do it'.
If the answer is 'would get me to the next day phase and an uncertain future' than I would try to save myself in other ways.

Basically its a day one wagon and people are scum reading you for shitty reasons

so yea the former if done prob.

I know it saved me twice (one of them was as scum thou, But I do it as scum if I know there are not many players than can read throu me there)

but I dont do it often and its like yea it wont help most of the time

He definitely does self vote as town too, but I found games where he does it as scum

Just read him based on other things

i did miss this post. im glad you singled it out. it's more useful than simple tabulation. i guess i have to throw up my hands.

[Psyche]

I can see the appeal atm of limming zzzx at this point for information. But the value of the information is inversely proportional to the number of people voting him just to get that information.

[Psyche]

Some thinking...
I don't like limming for information for similar, though weaker reasons to why I don't like limming based on someone being antitown.
The gist is that I'd rather lim -- and I'd get the most information from limming -- a solid scumread.
But informational lims are more reasonable when the slot is unreadable and/or has decent odds of being scum, and in particular when the gained information from the lim is concrete and identifiable.
I think in particular my BBM reads gets more challenging if ZZZX flips scum here. Though, multiball means that scum BBM could always be unaware that ZZZX is scum.
TL doesn't seem like the type to bus here, so it's a similar deal, but less interesting since I already townread the slot.
Don't think zzzx flip will help clarify FL either way, though it's been argued it would.
If zzzx flips town, I honestly don't learn too much immediately.
I don't have a good framework for interpreting mislims. I guess it's because I tend to think of failure as a default mode for town.

I editted out the hammer that might have been in this post. In the end, I'd rather keep shopping until I can't.

[Psyche]

everyone but the explicit townreads
but in general im really picky about scumspects
i say picky but ideal word is probably less...agentic

[Psyche]

i dunno how to reply
yeah im a weird guy

[Psyche]

oh yeah
same i guess
reminds me that energy from first few pages was caffeine-driven
energy today is sleep-deprived

[Psyche]

how do you know

[Psyche]

wow three votes on cat. idk i found that one meta post re: zzzx pretty telling

[Psyche]

I don't really think self voting is that ai for him:

Define 'basically save'.

If it is 'would get me town read for multiple days' then the answer is 'yes, I would do it'.
If the answer is 'would get me to the next day phase and an uncertain future' than I would try to save myself in other ways.

Basically its a day one wagon and people are scum reading you for shitty reasons

so yea the former if done prob.

I know it saved me twice (one of them was as scum thou, But I do it as scum if I know there are not many players than can read throu me there)

but I dont do it often and its like yea it wont help most of the time

He definitely does self vote as town too, but I found games where he does it as scum

Just read him based on other things

i think it's much less likely that scum finds this one zzzx post in his meta and volunteers it

[Psyche]

I feel like forcing you to listen a nails scratching blackboard noise for couple of hours.

haha humor

[Psyche]

I don't really think self voting is that ai for him:

Define 'basically save'.

If it is 'would get me town read for multiple days' then the answer is 'yes, I would do it'.
If the answer is 'would get me to the next day phase and an uncertain future' than I would try to save myself in other ways.

Basically its a day one wagon and people are scum reading you for shitty reasons

so yea the former if done prob.

I know it saved me twice (one of them was as scum thou, But I do it as scum if I know there are not many players than can read throu me there)

but I dont do it often and its like yea it wont help most of the time

He definitely does self vote as town too, but I found games where he does it as scum

Just read him based on other things

people who think cake is scum: how do you square this post with all that?

[Psyche]

sry i mean cat. i have been watching a certain show

[Psyche]

but like. it's so helpful. it's a helpful post. could scum! make a helpful post?

ah forget it i know scum can make helpful posts. i suppose it would be more interesting if the post were substantiating a zzzx townread but this is in the opposite direction

[Psyche]

so ive been sitting on the question but despite cat's find, i still think zzzx's self vote thing here looks a lot like the times the slot has navigated self-voting in previous games as town.

to be more specific, zzzx has a way of bargaining with his self-vote as town that i never found an example of him doing as scum. it's definitely well-supported that zzzx can tactically self-vote as scum, but i don't think this case fits his scum MO.

this is really inconvenient but i feel ive gotta oppose his lim today.

[Psyche]

Did an FL/ZZZX ISO, and tried processing through all the noise. My ZZZX SR was based on early posts, and not something I had gone back to revisit in a while. Rereading, the push looks really thin and I'm REALLY not liking

the worst

's positioning and vote, though I'm trying not to tunnel. Still working through things, gonna check out IAVH next because I owe that a read.

can you summarize what you're feeling on worst in specific because we might share the same opinion here

Heading to lunch, will answer this when I get back though

They're not really voicing their opinions on anything. They ask a lot of questions, specifically regarding peoples reads. On the surface, that sounds towny insomuch as it

looks

like they're scumhunting, trying to derive whether the person they're asking questions of had reasons or whatnot. The problem is they don't ever seem to actually do anything with that info, outside of occasionally a reply post.

None of their votes have had any reasoning behind them (as in, they hadn't expressed any interest in voting prior to doing so), and with the exception of their very first (RVS) vote they've just sheeped early on.

So now that I've gone and done this again, I still don't like Snivy but feel like this is a good place to push.

VOTE: the worst

this is just intuition, but i think the worst is just sort of a diffident player and would make more of an effort to not seem so diffident as scum.
furthermore, not being so diffident would help the slot as scum in a lot of concrete ways. for example, tw could probably join the zzzx wagon really safely.
oh the worst is on the zzzx wagon

haha hahhahaha

[Psyche]

i feel like the iavh wagon was prematurely squashed so im making a symbolic gesture of support for it

VOTE: iamveryhappy

[Psyche]

so tw's vote on zzzx is naked and sustained enough that the diffidence narrative i was building up isn't quite robust. i'd ideally see their reaction to the current gamestate before committing to a read one way or another

[Psyche]

Psyche gotta oppose both his buddies’ lims today, makes sense.

Yeah, let’s end on ZZZx, Psyche, or TL today.

IAVH/CSF kinda have partner equity, but I can see CSF being town and the duck being in that spot.

I’m against TL. I’m for Psyche. I’m neutral on ZZ

why neutral if you think claiming town as zzzx did is unlikely as scum?

[Psyche]

Psyche gotta oppose both his buddies’ lims today, makes sense.

Yeah, let’s end on ZZZx, Psyche, or TL today.

IAVH/CSF kinda have partner equity, but I can see CSF being town and the duck being in that spot.

I’m against TL. I’m for Psyche. I’m neutral on ZZ

why neutral if you think claiming town as zzzx did is unlikely as scum?

I thought iavh claimed the vt

Nope. So how much does that matter for you?

[Psyche]

Psyche gotta oppose both his buddies’ lims today, makes sense.

doesn't this sort of reasoning make TL's persistence about calling me scum a problem for your readslist

[Psyche]

Psyche gotta oppose both his buddies’ lims today, makes sense.

doesn't this sort of reasoning make TL's persistence about calling me scum a problem for your readslist

no, they had to distance. That didn't start until after he left the two of you out of his lead rist.

lol ok
but i don't have to distance?

[Psyche]

Nah, I did do a study on this when I was handling archive data. D1 lims are in fact quite predictive of game outcomes. Town win a lot more when they lim scum D1. Honestly, it's incredibly obvious that this would be the case.

[Psyche]

You guys have all these wild confident beliefs about things you've never done the work to validate. I'm envious a way but it's tiresome.

[Psyche]

Nah, I did do a study on this when I was handling archive data. D1 lims are in fact quite predictive of game outcomes. Town win a lot more when they lim scum D1. Honestly, it's incredibly obvious that this would be the case.

Show your work or this is cap, because a lot of people say the exact opposite to this.

oooh a lot of people

say

things
yeah sure i'll find the code

[Psyche]

but really. do you honestly believe that town has equal chance of solving and winning whether zzzx or whoever gets limmed today turns out to be scum or town?

[Psyche]

Just imagine a game where town literally lims at random and scum kill at random. Whatever the setup, we can mathematically prove that the conditional probability of them winning given that they lim scum D1 is higher than the conditional probability of them losing. For your take to make sense, towns of actual players that somehow manages to lim scum on D1 would have to reliably — across hundreds of games — play so badly afterward that they could be outperformed by a

random walk

. It's a mind-boggling notion.

[Psyche]

VOTE: iamveryhappy

we are unlikely to get content from iavh and I think iavh is scum

are you aware that you're sheeping me

[Psyche]

like if you can't do pre school level mafia analysis on that, dont know what to tell ya

here w/o a grasp of basic statistics talking about a gap in pre school level mafia analysis

[Psyche]

scum want claims

uh they also want mislims?

[Psyche]

like which do you think they'd rather have

[Psyche]

scum want claims

uh they also want mislims?

you have such a basic understanding of scum play if you think scum wanting a Vanilla Town misfade with no other claims in the game is better than scum causing more chaos and getting more claims.

If I were scum, I'd be rolling in this game abusing this playerlist.

You really think they'd give up one of their buddies right now on D1 in exchange for a few power role claims?? And you think it's stupid to think otherwise?

[Psyche]

like which do you think they'd rather have

claims and a misfade.

like no clue what youre trying to argue, it's always claims and a misfade, why is it claims or a vanilla misfade only? the answer is obviously claims and a misfade.

I'm arguing that trying really hard to lim scum on D1 is good actually

[Psyche]

like which do you think they'd rather have

claims and a misfade.

like no clue what youre trying to argue, it's always claims and a misfade, why is it claims or a vanilla misfade only? the answer is obviously claims and a misfade.

I'm arguing that trying really hard to lim scum on D1 is good actually

if you're trying to say im not trying hard this game, then you're delusional.

trying hard to get to D2

[Psyche]

Psyche, dont focus on me anymore. You've been obsessed with me all game. Like just stop

win condition says i have to oppose inane arguments that are impacting the game

[Psyche]

really was wowed by the "I'm 1v8ing" thing. i really iust need to more reliably keep in mind that taking you any seriously is a hole. there's no way you really believe town winrate doesn't vary with D1 lim outcomes either

[Psyche]

yes that one is correct i totally struggle reading players who openly deal in nonsense

[Psyche]

you'll never catch me saying i'm good at mafia. the main thing i learned messing around w archive data is that most of the time skill and knowledge at mafia is a mirage. one of the most well-established findings in deception detection research is that practically everyone thinks they're good at reading people, can volunteer loads of cute anecdotes about times they pulled it off (but not the ones they didn't!), and then barely do better than chance when these skills are given real scrutiny. i imagine they go on after these experiments still caught up in the same illusion. it's a trope in games like these too

[Psyche]

5 times more posts than everyone else in this thread. someone engages proportionately: "why are you so obsessed with me"
1v8 main character syndrome

[Psyche]

so many posts

[Psyche]

for sure!

[Psyche]

VOTE: unvote[/unvote]

[Psyche]

I think I can confirm myself by tomorrow.

[Psyche]

I want to apologize for not being more polite when I've gotten irritated by others' play in this game. The tendency to irritation itself is pretty lame and ultimately reflects a measure of arrogance on my part. There's plenty to be irritated about in my play and personality and yall more or less just accept me in stride. I'm grateful and should work more to follow the same example.

[Psyche]

I am opposed to the idea of treating D1 like a gimme phase that is ideally ended as soon as possible with lower than the highest possible standards for the scumminess of the target. I've only engaged when I've seen that idea advanced improperly. Not implausible that I'll do it again. I worry there will be similar arguments on D2 and beyond too. Hope not.

[Psyche]

I don't think there's a lot of use in me explaining why I don't think I'm twisting things. We'll have to also disagree on even the subject of our disagreement.

[Psyche]

I agree with FLs logic ftr but the iamvh wagon seems fun

does no one see a problem with this bbmolla character

👁️👄👁️

[Psyche]

oh my god the emojis worked

[Psyche]

i'm sorry. i am going to need some time. the whiplash would be too immense

[Psyche]

i'm sorry. i am going to need some time. the whiplash would be too immense

this was a funny joke! if i make a melodramatic post it's me trying to be funny! like for me, lana del ray's groundbreaking debut studio album born to die is one of the 21st century's greatest works of comedy

VOTE: BBMolla

though i townread you a little less for considering it

[Psyche]

wow doctor drew just transitioned from benign easy-to-miss side character to primary antagonist. a real kuvira move

[Psyche]

This pivot from FL really is tough to accept. I can't help but suspect that it is a ploy to force me to confront the inadequacy of my one original scumread.

[Psyche]

No! You are scheming against me! Don't think I can't tell! You warned me that you can walk circles around me and here we are here we are

[Psyche]

Let's go back to limming zzzx! That'll show you! How good your reads are instead of how good my reads are

[Psyche]

skygazer. leverage your tipsiness to give us a post that is unvarnished in its towniness. i will shoot you tonight if you don't. here is your prompt: why

wait who are you

[Psyche]

im going to bed

[Psyche]

i didnt get enough sleep last week guys i think i broke something in my brain

[Psyche]

where in ur win condition does it mention anything about maintenance for the meta

[Psyche]

my iso is a running report on that. feel free to take a click

[Psyche]

where in ur win condition does it mention anything about maintenance for the meta

a good site meta helps with a town win condition just as much as convincing players to vote scum does

a good site meta, maybe! PLing in hopes of building one?

[Psyche]

Anyway, I totally get that people definitely really believe that lines like "it's semi impossible to scumhunt when a game has X people alive", "it really doesn't matter who you fade on Day 1", and "It's like maintenance for the meta to keep it healthy" are legit discourse, and more than just ways to rationalize not even pretending to scumhunt. And I can totally see in pisskop's and FL's isos that "not even pretending to scumhunt" would not be a serious summary of their play.

But I wonder if we can at least agree that these are at least really

convenient

lines someone could deploy to avoid even pretending to scumhunt? And that lines like these really do define BBM's entire play this game? Because those are the only things I actually can't let go of at this point. The rest can be a postgame discussion that by then I pray I'll be too lazy to engage with.

[Psyche]

like even i'll give that the fatalist/policy lim discourse nexus is useful as a rhetorical device and even as a reasoning strategy when deadlines are looming and compelling reads are scarce. but a whole day of it? cmonnn.

[Psyche]

its just that ive coasted through soo many games as scum playing the same game flavor leaf is playing. town rarely punishes it (town coast a lot too) so it's often the optimal strategy once time constraints for game participation are taken into account. not trying at mafia is easy and fun

yeah and its gonna work sadly

I do townread Flavor Leaf though, with the self-vote being the main impetus for a Flavor Leaf townread (I doubt scum would self-vote early Day 1)

This read on flavour is low key scummy regardless of Flavours alignment

You’re not gonna get a whole lot from me today, there’s too much noise.

We should honestly policy lim whoever we think is the hardest to read player and go to night

FL doesn’t think I’m scum lmfao

early progression
wanted to promote an interpretation of these posts here but actually i'm still reflecting

[Psyche]

in retrospect i should have engaged on other parts of the iso besides the stuff starting at 627. it's not clear how his reads on TL and FL have progressed and is probably too late to find out. though implied that he's sort of given up on them. particularly the FL one.

[Psyche]

tw's latest weigh in doesn't further clarify my read on them. oh well
whoever has bianospino's slot is probably town. oh it's pisskop! ok that's useful
i think i feel the same way about merlyn's slot. but her posts were pretty solid on their own too.
bob's tough to read. see a splash of bbm's fatalism in here, but more of an effort to engage.
think i'll say ccs is town but i can't say im as committed as i am to other townreads ive announced.
still find it rather mysterious how people copped scumreads on cat. i have to lean town here
i can't read davesaz right now
or drew either? wow i suck
maybe i just need a break

[Psyche]

idk both this and the zzzx wagon seemed pretty easy to kindle

[Psyche]

also "it's really hard" is just a real lame excuse for not trying past sign-ups

[Psyche]

should i really do the study showing how much D1 outcomes influence town winrates

[Psyche]

i sort all posts by descending

[Psyche]

oh i get it now. again, always envious

[Psyche]

So how sure do you feel about this one FL

[Psyche]

ok. the idea is that the asking was insincere and that the hammer's timing provides evidence for this. not a terrible basis for moving a slot read closer to scum, sure.

[Psyche]

thread-flowey?

[Psyche]

ah scrumptious. a semantic debate i managed to not be part of

[Psyche]

he really is a quasi bbm

[Psyche]

ah scrumptious. a semantic debate i managed to not be part of

You agree with me though right?

There's a difference between 'it isn't scummy in any way' and 'there isn't any way it could be scummy'

oh, so glad you asked
by definition, any NAI activity *has* to be something that could be done by scum or by town
i think FL's definition makes it possible for something to be "scummy" and "nai" at the same time, and thus is self-defeating!
at the same time i believe you will quickly observe FL to revert to the more cohesive and natural definition of the term as soon as the subject shifts
thank you for pulling me into this discussion. i love watching myself type

[Psyche]

Well I mean, I'd have to check how they felt about the slot, but maybe you could argue it was ackward positioning to deflect responsibility and avoid the hammer coming down on a teammate.

Id totes revisit the idea when we flip a few rolecards.

this is actually a cool alternative interpretation of the phrase "potentially scummy" that i vibe with and embrace. so glad i townread you

[Psyche]

there's nothing you can do furtive! the cow's home!

though yeah i agree the hammer is scummy in an "it pushes my read further red" sort of way.

[Psyche]

wow we are so lucky. or we could be if you aren't night killed!

[Psyche]

reads like an odd choice to join a large normal when you are consciously unable play in games with more than 13p

[Psyche]

heehee haha

[Psyche]

The waffling he did around zzzx seems unnecessary if he's alright with that slot doing, so if i'm attempting relational tells, that does seem a bit sus.

somewhat interesting that shots would aim at side characters. not sure what the NK meta is these days though

ill work on having an opinion on tw later. found slot tough to read yesterday. diffident stances yet always ending up lending a hand to the biggest wagon but not for ideological reasons like the others — it's tough to rule out at least.

VOTE: BBMolla

[Psyche]

lotta fakeclaims in bbm's iso that i don't think we were intended to take as fakeclaims

[Psyche]

i mean a lot of people had and expressed thst same stance on iavh

[Psyche]

say TL what happened to that strong townread you expressed for hu tao

[Psyche]

We got more mafia by going to night then we did by taking 100 pages day one just saying

certain people deadset on making sure things played out that way