Mini 715: Legends of Literature Mafia (Over)

[CarnCarn]

/confirm

[CarnCarn]

Vote: Der Hammer

Just kidding.

Unvote: Der Hammer
Vote: GhostWriter

[CarnCarn]

Vote:CarnCarn

for not having a Christmasy avatar.

FoS: Riceballtail

for being the only one in this thread with a Christmasy avatar (at the moment this was typed).

[CarnCarn]

I don't think claiming our novels is going to do any good.

Yup. I don't see how doing so would really limit scum fakeclaims anyway.

it can only serve to limit future fakeclaims from scum, which is a good thing imo

You never know what the downsides could be. Scum could be looking for character(s) from certain books, etc.

[CarnCarn]

Scum could be looking for character(s) from certain books, etc.

unvote, vote: carncarn

that implies some sort of inside knowledge about scum mechanics

No inside knowledge, just standard precautions.

[CarnCarn]

i didn't suggest we massclaim or claim characters, just claim what books we come from

So, far people have been indifferent/slightly reluctant about it. In case it's not clear, let me just say that I am definately opposed to this idea.

[CarnCarn]

when we end up hitting a townie.

unvote; vote:Riceballtail

upgrade that FoS:

Unvote, Vote: Riceballtail

[CarnCarn]

He had to paraphrase, because he knows what he is claiming as fact is not actually there in the statement in question. Do you not agree?

I do agree.

But this IS Legends of Literature.

And you DID say Bah Humbug for no apparent reason.

And A Christmas Carol IS a Legend of Literature.

And Ebeneezer Scrooge DOES say Bah Humbug.

And Ebeneezer Scrooge IS a jerk.

And if I were to choose an alignment for Scrooge, it'd be scum.

I just don't know. Clearly you wouldn't fake an Ebeneezer Scrooge PR. But it's a nulltell if it's not a scumtell, so either way its not protown.

People are reading too much into the PR speculation, IMO. I believe Sly when he says he was referring to the christmasy avatars stuff.
If it really was a PR, we'd probably have known from the mod by now because he would have screwed up.

And I assume you're joking about stretching the "Bah humbug" into a scumtell. I count at least 3 degrees of separation between a christmas carol and scum above.

[CarnCarn]

We'll never know who makes the great big slip-up. :-p Other than that, I'm just worried SlySly is too close to a lynch (he's my second strongest suspect, and I have no problem voting for him). I don't want to end this day in a few more days.

Uhh, both SlySly and RBT had 2 votes when you chose to vote RBT. Why are you worried that Sly is "too close to a lynch," and what gives/gave you the impression that he is close to being lynched?

[CarnCarn]

Vote: roflcopter

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Oh yeah, I believe the RBT claim.

[CarnCarn]

Vote: roflcopter

Any reason why?

Yes

[CarnCarn]

I will shortly compile the list of reasons why rofl is scum. SlySly's death miller claim should not be dismissed so easily.

[CarnCarn]

So we have a death miller and a miller in the same game?

Sure, why not? It's possible. Shere Khan is pretty much a textbook villan in Jungle Book, but Comrade Napoleon (from Animal Farm?) doesn't make much sense as a miller. In fact, he's kind of a real villan himself in the actual book, towards the end.
Also, this is kind of WIFOMy, but why the hell would scum claim death miller when it is such a rare role, when there is already a miller dead, and when there are better roles that they can "out" if they feel they are going to be lynched?
In addition, SlySly had no one defending him at all D1 for his case on Caboose, which suggest to me that he was really town who got lynched too easily. RBT and vaquero offered the most "defense" in that they suggested Sly was getting too much attention early in the game, but they then placed the L-1 and hammer votes on SS too quickly for it to have been scum bussing by them.

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roflcopter:

should we perhaps claim our novels? it can only serve to limit future fakeclaims from scum, which is a good thing imo

Only? And it does no such thing since, as all of our novels are "Legends of Literature", we can have any number of possible character-fakeclaims. Then, when I suggest a possible drawback to his scummy plan, he attacks me for doing so, and asserts that I am scum for thinking so:

Scum could be looking for character(s) from certain books, etc.

unvote, vote: carncarn

that implies some sort of inside knowledge about scum mechanics

The reasoning has no basis, and the motive for this post is to turn his scummy play of suggesting mass book-claim into a manipulated, twisted attack on the person who pointed out why the plan is bad.

from where i'm sitting, the vaquero case gets a lot stronger once slysly is dead scum, and moving your vote derailed all momentum on the slysly wagon,

effectively stalling the game, which is exactly what vaquero wanted anyway, so you're playing right into his hands.

Emphasized. Once again, we have pretty blatant misrep here to make another player look scummy; not unlike how he misportrays my comments re: bookclaiming.

vaquero

vaquero

Tried to stop the scumSly wagon early. Stalling defense. Late jump onto scumSly wagon. Very scummy.

Riceballtail

Riceballtail

Also tried to stop the scumSly wagon, stalling defense. Another late jump onto scumSly wagon.

My biggest suspicion falls on RBT from this list for trying to kill a scumwagon's momentum and late vote jump onto scumSly.

Vote: Riceballtail

looks like caboose has this one on lockdown

vote: riceballtail

I really don't like this vote, especially because Caboose's "case" was the same against both vaq and RBT, and rofl, from post 100 quoted above, suggested that the vaquero case would make more sense when Sly flipped scum. So, why is voting RBT now on basically nothing but Caboose's equivalent case against RBT and vaquero? Seems like scum hoping/having planned out a wagon for today, and person was RBT.

I also don't like icemanE's vote, which is pretty similar. I also think he is pretty scummy based on some of his voting patterns D1. I'll explain his case separately when I have more time.

don't buy the claim, tracking ice makes no sense

Wait, why?

ice is obvtown thats why tracking him makes no sense

Wait, how?

my theory is that you claim to have a negative track result on sly to try and explain away your scummy behavior regarding him yesterday and you claim to have been rbed last night because you probably were, thus why there was no kill

This makes no sense and is probably fabricated just to make RBT's night actions look more scummy. Why is a negative track result on Sly something that scum would make up? And why would it explain away their "scummy behavior"? Why would scum claim to have been RB'd last night, since, for their claim to work (i.e., convince people they are town), that would require at least one roleblocker to be in the setup (i.e., if there is no roleblocker in the setup, that scum gets lynched in endgame/after massclaim anyway)?

yeah thats a good point too. cop + town doctor or rb (something prevented that kill), i think a tracker on top of that would be terribly unbalanced

Why do you think there would be a cop, doc, protown RB in this game? There are lots of other reasons why the kill might not have gone through. Plus, it's quite possible mafia have powers to balance things out, too (mafia RB, doc, GF, etc.), even if those protown roles were in the game. Plus, with mini-themes, I don't think lots of power roles necessarily means the game is unbalanced anyway.
roflcopter is trying too hard to discredit the Tracker claim, which is really scummy.

Overall, at this point, I'm pretty sure roflcopter is the most likely to be scum and is thus the best lynch today.

[CarnCarn]

Why are you answering for rofl?

FoS: Caboose

I'll respond to your points later.

[CarnCarn]

Why are you answering for rofl?

FoS: Caboose

I'll respond to your points later.

Were you addressing rofl? I thought you were just laying out your crappy case for all to see and comment on. The FoS also reeks of OMGUS.

Yes, no, and not really because the connection between you and rofl is pretty clear from as early as page 2 for anyone who's paid even the slightest attention to this game.

[CarnCarn]

Vote: roflcopter

Any reason why?

Yes

I think I know what you mean CC.
But no, you're almost definitely wrong.

Also, please explain what you thought I meant.

[CarnCarn]

I was going to make a post responding to all of Caboose's points, but shit, Caboose has a good point and I can understand why he's sticking up for rofl. I want to remove my FoS on him, obviously.

However, I want to warn him not to be too confident about rofl's alignment:

roflcopter

roflcopter

Acting very town so far. Crap attacked early by scumSly. Had good attacks on scumSly, Vaquero, and RBT. 100% sure he's town.

Don't be 100% about it; it's not necessarily what you think. I'm not sure what you thought about why I voted for rofl, but I think you were on the wrong track. I need a bit of time to think about what is the best next step, here.

Unvote: roflcopter

neko (and Caboose for that matter), are you voting me just because I think there could be a miller and a death miller in this game? Because I don't see you saying anywhere why you think what I've said makes me scum.

Obviously he'd be lying about watching sly then.

First of all, he's a tracker (not a watcher). Second of all, why would he be obviously lying?

[CarnCarn]

rice-scum claiming to have gotten rbed last night makes perfect sense if he is the mafioso who was sent to make last nights kill and he thinks it failed because he got nailed by a town rb. its also a pretty clever way to maybe a) get the hypothetical town rb on his side or b) at least get the hypothetical town rb to claim

This makes a lot of sense, as well as the argument about the timing and interspersed details of the claim.

Vote: Riceballtail

At this point, I see the list of remaining scum suspects growing quite narrow:
vaquero and neko strike me as the most likely suspects for remaining scum. tenchi is probably next, although I got a reasonably protown feeling about him attacking SS D1 (even if he confused me and Caboose a couple times). If RBT flips scum, I think Tenchi is likely town because of his isopost 5:

I will vote for either SlySly, RBT or Vaquero. I will place my vote later.

Are you weighing the option over the course of the day, or just stalling to see where things go?

Both. We'll never know who makes the great big slip-up. :-p Other than that, I'm just worried SlySly is too close to a lynch (he's my second strongest suspect, and I have no problem voting for him). I don't want to end this day in a few more days.

Hmm... now that you mention it, I should vote for my biggest suspect now.

VOTE: RiceBall

(He's not really that close anyway.).

But again, I am for voting for any of those three, at least for the moment.

He voted RBT instead of Sly because "he's not really that close anyway", which is not true because RBT and SS had the same number of votes and voting RBT made him the leading wagon at the time. I would have thought he would check harder if he was voting a scumbuddy. His isopost 21 also suggests a lack of a link to RBT, should RBT flip scum.

And everyone else seems town to me, even GhostWriter who has lurked a lot. I don't see anything he's said as scummy, despite some people suggesting he is suspicious.

[CarnCarn]

Agree, we need input from Simenon

and GhostWriter's

characters.

EDIT: Just noticed GW's post above

[CarnCarn]

I did not tie you to him. The only reason I am not voting him is because I'm positive that it can't be both of you on the same team, and I don't know which feeling to go with. I find that I need to, again, tell you to stop trying to twist my words.

Nice fencesitting.

Do you think, in this case, that the fencesitting makes him more likely to be scum?

I'm going to

Unvote: Riceballtail

to make sure we get something from vaquero/Simenon before today's lynch because that person is pretty high on my suspicious list.

For the moment, I would like to OMGUS

Vote: neko2086

. But really though, his lurking through both days bothers me, as well as his unwillingness to be on neither the SlySly or RBT wagons. Plus, I can't tell if his vote for me on D1 was serious or not (well, there's no indication he's joking, anyway).

[CarnCarn]

Jazzmyn, RBT has pretty much refused to provide that info after multiple requests. Now, tell us why that's scummy (not the refusing to answer but the not providing the book/author info you asked for). And you've also implied that Tenchi's research on the nameclaim is wrong (from the way I read it).

[CarnCarn]

LA until 1/7

[CarnCarn]

Jazzmyn, RBT has pretty much refused to provide that info after multiple requests. Now, tell us why that's scummy (not the refusing to answer but the not providing the book/author info you asked for). And you've also implied that Tenchi's research on the nameclaim is wrong (from the way I read it).

[CarnCarn]

Simenon, what are your thoughts on what has happened so far on Day 2?

I'm happy with where my vote is right now. Still waiting for an answer from Jazzmyn to my quoted post above, too.

[CarnCarn]

neko2086, it's difficult for me to form a convincing opinion of you either way given your gaps between posts. I switched to vote you here to see what would happen and make sure Simenon gave some views on what's happened so far.

RBT has not given me any reasons to NOT vote him, but I'm just waiting for answers to further questions above.

[CarnCarn]

I'd prefer to continue this game if possible.

[CarnCarn]

or i suppose it could be one more mafia. is 3 scum + 1 traitor in a mini in any way balanced?

i just don't think tenchi would have bus'd the last mafioso able to make a kill.

either way, its massclaim time

I'm not sure what happened, tbh. As far as I know, the actual mafia don't know who the traitor is, but the traitor knows who the mafia are. Also, the wincon of the traitor is dependant upon having a mafia member survive to endgame, right? Or can a traitor still win the game for the mafia after the actual mafia are dead? I believe it is former, but I'm not sure.

In fact, I strongly think it

is

the former because there have been no nights with 2 NKs and a night with zero NKs.
So, yeah, strongly think 3 scum + traitor. Seems unbalanced, but there's hopefully something that town has to counter it.

And yes to massclaim idea.

[CarnCarn]

Alive

CarnCarn
icemanE
roflcopter
Caboose
vaquero
GhostWriter
Simeon
Jazzmyn

...

It is now Day Three. It will take 5 to get a lynch.

Mod:

Aren't vaquero and Simenon the same character? That makes 7 alive, 4 to lynch, I believe.

[CarnCarn]

Alive

CarnCarn
icemanE
roflcopter
Caboose
vaquero
GhostWriter
Simeon
Jazzmyn

...

It is now Day Three. It will take 5 to get a lynch.

Mod:

Aren't vaquero and Simenon the same character? That makes 7 alive, 4 to lynch, I believe.

Oh, nvrmind, one of those should be neko2086, so still 8 alive, 5 to lynch.

[CarnCarn]

We don't know the specifics of Tenchi's role, so no conclusions of his bussing can be determined.

I'm fine with the massclaim.

We don't need to know the specifics. Just ask yourself if an SK could be in this game, then look at the night results. Tenchi obviously bussed late.
If he was the last mafia, then there has to be an SK. Ask yourself again whether an SK is realistic in this game. There is obviously a third mafia member + Traitor.

[CarnCarn]

Jazz, massclaim, yes or no?

[CarnCarn]

neko, what do you think about massclaim?

Also, rofl, I'm OK with Caboose choosing, but would prefer neko/Jazz/ice to be towards the front of the line.

[CarnCarn]

does it really matter, though?

It matters if you want to look at connections.

[CarnCarn]

I would like Simenon to go first in the massclaim.

Meh, fine.

[CarnCarn]

I'm fine with popcorn or Caboose as Claimmaker.

[CarnCarn]

CC, I was in favor of massclaiming since page 1.

Wow, so you

were

serious about that. And that was just for claiming books, not roles.

[CarnCarn]

Ghostwriter, you're up.

Oh, and claim your name, role, book, and author.

I'm disappointed you've chosen him to go before any of the other 3 I mentioned, but oh well.

[CarnCarn]

I'm Tweedledee, town mason. From Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland, of course. Partnered up with Carn over there.

QFT

[CarnCarn]

pick Jazz

[CarnCarn]

That's bizarre, because that's not what's in my PM. It's my character, a line of flavor,

and the town win condition

(followed by some line of the replacements.)

I didn't get a win con in my role PM...

This.

Simenon's claim reeks more and more as we go along, but I'm still hesitant to think he is the last killer.

[CarnCarn]

Been really busy, so short post:

General thoughts:

1. We can't tell much from what people have claimed. It's possible someone is fakeclaiming, too (RBT claimed Peter Cottontail & Tracker, but turned up as Samuel Whiskers).

2. I think Simenon is probably telling the truth. I would have guessed my PM had a wincon, too, but it doesn't. That's just the way role PMs are usually written.

3. I don't think Jazzmyn is lying about her claim in light of recent posts.

4. To me, this puts the last scum between neko2086 and icemanE, and it's pretty much a toss up between them right now. Good thing is that we're not in LyLo (or anywhere near it, really).

[CarnCarn]

Notice that there's no claimed pro-town roleblocker.

Would they actually claim here, assuming they have nothing useful to claim? Should they? If they have something useful, then obviously they should/would have.
Similar to a cop with no useful results - should they claim role? We're not in LyLo, or LyLo-1, so perhaps that's why other town powers (if they exist) haven't felt it necessary to claim?

[CarnCarn]

Was that a hammer?

Vote: neko2086

Gonna go with my (falliable) gut on this one.

[CarnCarn]

Night 2 = Rofl (this is when we were trying to see what the connection was)

Yeah, I was pretty sure I had tipped off Caboose and/or myself as some sort of power role. Quite surprised that Tenchi was the one that got killed last night.

[CarnCarn]

May I never be on another scum team with Ice. That is twice in a row he has hung me out to dry!!

lol; yeah the odds suggested to me that you weren't scum (since RB didn't work), so I wasn't a fan of the lynch. RBT's comments were worse IMO.

This was basically as close to flawless victory as town can get, considering it was night start, so good work by the town, esp. roflcopter and Caboose.

[CarnCarn]

And oh yeah, I was against the massbookclaim b/c GhostWriter and I would have claimed the same book and pretty much outed ourselves as Masons D1.