Open 890 - C9++ - Postgame

[biancospino]

Well she didn't give me a scum PM, even though it seemed like the perfect opportunity to break up my townstreak again with say, a SK role so I still wouldn't be able to have any regular Mafia games for people to try to meta me off of.

BUT NO

I, too, wish Fire&Ice could be retconned out, but alas

[biancospino]

VOTE: biancospino

And Katy, put some clothes on, geez

[biancospino]

UNVOTE: um whoever that was

VOTE: biancospino

how serious is this?

VOTE: yessiree
oh, you

tryhard

how serious is this?

[biancospino]

Who wants to take a bet on how long will Enchant manage to keep his post restriction?

[biancospino]

Does anyone CC my jest claim?

No of course not, there is no Jester in C9++

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/ ... usBusiness
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[biancospino]

1. Xegarus
...
11. Doctor Drew

⋮

Uhm. Whiplash much? Am I stupid or are those two contradictory?

KittyTacky claiming that Dragon and Drew are not paired in 115 (not sure how he arrived at this read tbh) seems somewhat in line with !town meta.

I don't think people are that good at balancing how soon they give reads as !town vs !scum.

I don't think it's too much of a stretch to come to that conclusion. It could be theatre but if it was it was pretty strange, and also it would require faking a fauxslip of sorts which I think it's too dangerous for too little benefit

[biancospino]

officially proposing a townbloc alliance

current members:
1. DragonEater70
2. camelCasedSnivy
3. biancospino
4. yessiree
10. Not_Mafia
12. Enchant

the bloc will be called SNYBED

VOTE: Kitty

[biancospino]

Uhm. Whiplash much? Am I stupid or are those two contradictory?

Oh! That clears that up then

But I'm realizing that thewas probably semantically relevant there so eh

[biancospino]

In first quoted post, Enchant is asking "do you think Dragon and Drew are both scum?" This is in response to RC, who claimed I was theatering with the Doc.

Yeah, I've figured it later lol.

People of the SNYBED, will you vote RC with me?

Why RCE over Kitty?

[biancospino]

I love how this fails to disambiguate the exact two things it should be disambiguating

[biancospino]

Well, RC does admit that Enchant is good at reading them, and Enchant did read RC as suspicious in Enchant's emote scum-o-meter. So RC is indirectly claiming that they are at least suspicious. I am more OK with an RC wagon.

VOTE: RCEnigma

Also also what a gross post.

Mhm, tbh RCE is not wrong that this is a bad post, at least inasmuch the logic is very weak. At the very least RC couldn't be

claiming

anything since Enchant's meter hadn't been posted yet

(and btw, @rc; I'm not in the mood for searching myself, so can you please point me to some games I can look at to verify that you did indeed drop the /s there?)

I

can

see how Cele's point can arise thou— in fact, if I had to guess gth it looks more organic that fabricated to me. Gross is

not

the word that cames to mind

UNVOTE: Kitty

[biancospino]

My issue with celebs post is twofold. The logic that RC said enchant reads them well -> enchant says RC is sus -> RC must be saying they are just sus doesn’t even track linearly.

Well yeah, that's why I too think the logic in itself is kind of garbage

But it’s also the kind of behavior you see from scum not wanting to burn bridges earlier. Because since it was posed that they are ok with my wagon only because of Enchants accuracy (or inaccuracy) on my slot. It’s of no fault of their own when I flip. And if there has to be a pivot if I’m proven town, we’ll they didn’t *personally* think I was sus….enchant did.

Alright, but Celeb here is wording that in a bizzarro way that appears to mistake the order of events. You'd think a wolf would think it straight for a couple seconds before employing any such tactict

If celeb flips red I’d have enchant as non mechanically locktown.

That I can give to you

[biancospino]

(psuedo E-1)

May I remind you that Enchant and N_M are both in the bloc

[biancospino]

Wait I'm stupid 6 is already E-1.

Why did you say E-2 then lol

[biancospino]

VOTE: RCE

[biancospino]

N_M only hammers

That's the meme yes

[biancospino]

Dragon, I'm perceiving you as significantly more agressive this game for some reason. Maybe it's just the new avatar

[biancospino]

yuck that's the wrong emoji

even more yuck, I can't find a better emoji

[biancospino]

You felt like an anti- gambler's fallacy would sway people at any time

other

than rvs?

[biancospino]

I wanted to post one of the emojis Enchant used (specifically the eyebrows raised one) and the board threw an SQL error
Clearly today is not the day

That error only happens if the post

does not

contain a quote for some reason

[biancospino]

what.

[biancospino]

what.

hi sheep me

Yeah I don't think I will.
Any reason why you don't like RCE to be the test subject anymore, other than being funny?

[biancospino]

just to be clear, what are you suggesting there, that the building up of this wagon is not pure? For it looks like you are arguing that RCE doesn't get shaded for those things while scum, so the only way it's relevant is if you're implying that some wolf is duing the shading here

[biancospino]

Spoiler: yessiree

VOTE: yessiree
Serious vote. I don't really like his pushes on either KittyTacky or RCEnigma.

i would buy that if it was like page 2 or 3, even then i still disagree with that assessment

i dont like ur implication that people posted nothing but fluff for the past 8 pages

I personally don't really have any well-developed reads yet. I know that with the way I play I'm likely to change my mind later so sometimes on page 10 it's just easier not to talk about how I think not_mafia is towny because he posted twice in a row (not a real read).

this wasn't a push so much as an attempt to sort RCE, out of respect for his scum game (he's a slippery weasel, ask Aureal ).
If i wanted to push him I would've cased him instead of trying to have a dialog, but i feel RCE isn't interested in having it - he is good at anticipating pushes on him and defusing it beforehand (fitting his scum meta)
this is also not real reason, explained here 219

i would buy that if it was like page 2 or 3, even then i still disagree with that assessment

i dont like ur implication that people posted nothing but fluff for the past 8 pages

Not what I said. I said I didn’t find any of it town indicative.

echoing DE's sentiment

it seems like you're more interested in getting bogged down with "I said this, I didn't say that" arguments, than to have dialog that's more useful in helping to read you better

I don't like how in the first post yessiree says

implication

(which, well, implies it's not something that RCE said but an inference that yessiree is trying to draw), but when RCE tries to correct what he meant it becomes "now you're getting bogged down in meaningless arguments". I think corrections like this are fine?

it should be more self explanatory given the full context

Spoiler:

Gth the only reads I have right now are aureal prob town enchant prob town.

How do u have a read on Aureal and not on a slot with way more content

Well you’re assuming all content can generate a read. Which isn’t the case.

Aureal slamming the policy vote seemed townie to me and no one else did a townie thing. Enchant is townie for the emoji thing and a byproduct of celebs posting but emojis can only take him so far so that’s more of a quicksand read.

i would buy that if it was like page 2 or 3, even then i still disagree with that assessment

i dont like ur implication that people posted nothing but fluff for the past 8 pages

i would buy that if it was like page 2 or 3, even then i still disagree with that assessment

i dont like ur implication that people posted nothing but fluff for the past 8 pages

Not what I said. I said I didn’t find any of it town indicative.

i probe him to see if his aureal and him only having 2 probtowns reads at that point was authentic or fabricated out of necessity for getting out of a jam
he responds that not all content can generate a read, but later changes this to say he didn't find any content town indicative. I felt he was using not finding anything town indicative as a justification to not having any reads
his explanation about how Aureal could've done this or that was all conjecture and i felt both replies were engineered to lead to nowhere (which, again fits his scum meta)

@yessiree:

can you clarify if your scumread of Kitty is because he cannot justify his read on RCE or because he is posting in short bursts in general?

both kitty and RCE were both individually scummy players, and i was tryna see if i could draw some sort of associative between the 2, i dont plan on using this right way but it'll be useful later on
the kitty read i already explained in more details in our back and forth, i dont feel like regurgitating it again. Is there anything u don't agree with? or you have reasons to townread him?

You’re slanting the argument here. All content doesn’t necessarily generate content / the content generated by other slots did not result in a read either way don’t bump heads as simultaneous statements.

Idk how either reply leads nowhere if you weren’t pushing for a different conclusion. It was literally just to prove how I landed on Aureal being towny. That’s the somewhere?

I don’t think this interaction is as innocent as

being paranoid of my scumgame based on one loss that I ultimately dropped out of (even if the game was mostly over by that point). Because the approach was in bad faith at best.

It is interesting how you are throwing explicit shade at yes here; but you don't actually have him at below null apparently, judging from how you haven't yet formed an unbiased read on him:

Also also, what “more content” slots are you concerned about my not having a read on yessir? Dragon? They’re pushing me so unbiased evaluation is ongoing.

Drew and kkfc don’t have enough content to draw from either. Maybe bianco but I haven’t given their intentions much thought, I’ll cede on that I guess but it doesn’t seem that pressing.

I already called my suspicions on celeb.

btw, I don't actually care too much so whatever, but I do have a preference against

they/em

; whatever nongeneric pronoun is fine

[biancospino]

Spoiler: quotes

KittyTacky (3): RCEnigma, yessiree, camelCasedSnivy

you're voting KittyTacky
is this still an rvs vote? or you're scumreading him? (or you don't have the justification to anyone? )

UNVOTE:

In the words of enchant…

dice = rand chance of being either alignment? or?

➡

I have a creeping feeling Enchant is talking in rebuses so we focus on solving them instead of solving him.

C'mon now, it's not like Enchant has avoided clarifying when stuff wasn't clear

also

UNVOTE: KittyTacky

ill find a different wagon soon

Oh snap I read it as vote, not unvote.

UNVOTE: Snivilicious

I mean, cCS had indeed voted KT, but that was in response to your vote to RC

Anyway I'm not finding anything townie about RC's latest posts, so back goes my vote

lol are you kidding i don't think so

lets go on kitty again

UNVOTE: Whoever I was voting I think RCE

VOTE: KittyTacky

Which... I'll be honest, I'm confused; if ccs was actually concerned about SNYBED then voting outside of it, and to a wagon that was already lukewarm and actually not distasteful to the block in general, is odd; but also scum!ccs that wanted to cast doubt would also need to vote inside? ???

[biancospino]

@mod, V/LA for 24 hours

Received.

- Alianna

[biancospino]

... I don't know why I colered that, I didn't consciously intend to

[biancospino]

I'm tempted to say town behaviour right now, what do people think? I feel like as scum I'm always fighting to fabricate scumreads, not let townies gain too much influence or find each other, and other typical scumbutt activities
and here he is, townbinning half the game without a care in the world

Just saying, idk how that is towny necessarily. Townreading people is significantly easier since most people are indeed truly town

That's an interesting game, Kitty was town and opened that game almost exactly like he opened this game. Mentioned not knowing many people in the list, claimed Jester, talking about not playing a lot D1, talked about pairing or not pairing people. I was almost confused I was reading an ISO of him in this game.

Woah, indeed.
Anyway, 1$ that Cele an KT aren't paired unless they're both scum with Aureal

[biancospino]

Drew, c'mon buddy I said in over easy that I remember *all* the games I play. we have 4 games together, fire and ice, swinger's hall, trustfall, and over easy, the first 3 you were town, I finally obtained the last piece of the puzzle when u rolled scum in over easy, so yeah I think I AM good at reading your tone

prepare to be correctly read by me

baa
VOTE: Drew

[biancospino]

I think I got disengaged in fire and ice......I keep forgetting Aureal was scum in that game as well lol.

Yeah but you had good reasons to disangage there tbh lol. D1 of that game was... muddy

[biancospino]

THIS IS A CONSPIRACY RC!!!!!

VOTE: Yess

But no one had the cojones to put me at E-1, and I do feel better about yess scum actually now since he thinks my vote was based off OMGUS

So, walk me through the concept here:

1. yes sais stuff and votes you
   
2. you vote him back "as an omgus" wink wink
   
3. yes does not presume the omgus isn't actually one
   
4. ∴ yes is scum

How does that make sense? Like this is just upside down. Assuming you're town, then scum!yes would know that the stuff he said in 1. was in bad faith, and thus be

more

likely to assume that the vote in 2. was actually motivated

I'm tempted to say town behaviour right now, what do people think? I feel like as scum I'm always fighting to fabricate scumreads, not let townies gain too much influence or find each other, and other typical scumbutt activities
and here he is, townbinning half the game without a care in the world

Just saying, idk how that is towny necessarily. Townreading people is significantly easier since most people are indeed truly town

That's an interesting game, Kitty was town and opened that game almost exactly like he opened this game. Mentioned not knowing many people in the list, claimed Jester, talking about not playing a lot D1, talked about pairing or not pairing people. I was almost confused I was reading an ISO of him in this game.

Woah, indeed.
Anyway, 1$ that Cele an KT aren't paired unless they're both scum with Aureal

Would have to agree with the first half. Idk what you mean with the pairing read.

Err specifically why aureal is involved there.

[biancospino]

Fuck I've messed the quote

[biancospino]

Idk what you mean with the pairing read.

Err specifically why aureal is involved there.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is, aureal is the one to bring that particular game up; which was indedd pretty convenient in a scum!Cele+KT world.
If scum!Cele+KT wanted to use that observation to give KT some town points, then I would assume they would have tried to bring it up themselves in some way, which they have not unless Aureal is in cohort. So that likely wasn't planned and I think it's less likely to happen organically as a pair

[biancospino]

I see. But the thing is I just don't believe yes is scum here, sorry.
And, I also don't believe the behaviour you're up about is sensical from scum tbh

[biancospino]

I'm confused why he thinks I was getting shade for sheeping Enchant, I think people just hated my flimsy reasoning. I mainly wanted to try a counter wagon at Dragon's behest and I hate the idea of just voting with no excuse, so I hobbled one together.

eh, your flimsy reasoning was indeed in justification of an Enchant sheep in 150, 176, which is what you was shaded by DE in 179.

RC's 343 was at least a little disingenous in that regard, you framed your sheep in a different enough way from what DE has been doing that frankly they are not analogous behaviours.

UNVOTE: Drew
Anyway, atm I hold that yes, Aisa, Enchant are town. DE, cCS I also do feel +t, thou there is something that is bugging me about them which I can't really put my fingers on; most likely not going to vote there today.

This Aureal wagon is fine I guess, but frankly it's so nullish that it's hardly less of a shot in the dark then Not_Mafia

[biancospino]

and Drew should trust me more instead of being paranoid cuz if he's town here I will correctly read that too

Doubling down on the Drew expertise eh, lol

[biancospino]

and Drew should trust me more instead of being paranoid cuz if he's town here I will correctly read that too

Doubling down on the Drew expertise eh, lol

Yeah I really think I have him downloaded lol. I can't say the the same about literally anyone else

Well then include me in the list of people you don't have downloaded.

This is pretty bad tbh. If you're town, it's weird of you to preemptively prepare the terrain for yess

not

to eventually townread you

VOTE: Drew

[biancospino]

Drew, would you consider voting for RCE? Dragon, would you consider voting for Aureal? I'm desperate for a wagon that isn't Drew here

why not add on to the pressure?

I have a weird feeling about Drew's slot, like a lot of things he does (including voting Yess and defending RC) feel really weird, and even though I kinda wanna call it scummy I also kinda don't? Like I won't be really surprised if Drew flipped scum but if he flipped town I would be like "shit I should've known something was off"

That's the kind of feeling that I have, so I rather vote for someone who I feel I won't have that feeling with

This is where I was 48 hours ago. I'm at a more terminal stage now, Drew is my top townread

Mhhhm
I for one have a weird feeling about Drew's slot, and while I won't be really surprised if he flipped town, if he

is

scum i would be like "shit I should've known something was off". We miss all the shot we don't take and all that.

Anyway, if you're solid that you don't want Drew, we can do RC sure.
VOTE: RCE

[biancospino]

Why is bianco obvtown? I literally couldn't remember anything that she'd done other than vote Drew just now without referencing her ISO.

Why is bianco obvtown? I literally couldn't remember anything that she'd done other than vote Drew just now without referencing her ISO.

...and you decided to vote her just for that Drew vote without remembering anything else that she'd done?

why would that be a good choice of a lim in your eyes?

Oooo Yess is doing the narrative framing thing.

@RCE, wdym? It's you who is doing some (meta-)narrative framing here

[biancospino]

If KKFC is scum they're trying to frame me I think.

Mhm. Just to be clear, wdym exactly? KKFC has only talked about you in the slightly positive (see 129, 314); so, are you saying he's sort of kamikaze-whiteknigthing you in order that his flip would make you look bad?

VOTE: KKFC
Anyway, I don't feel too well, so I'm likely not going to have much insight on the game toDay

[biancospino]

Fucking hell with the tags

[biancospino]

It's my birthday!

here, have a present. VOTE: Kitty

[biancospino]

I think there's a vig as I don't think scum kills Enchant.

Enchant was widely townread thou. honestly I find it weirder to believe that scum would shoot

Drew

[biancospino]

What if there are 2 vigs and scum got roleblocked?

Yeah, right of the bat 2 Vigs and 1 town Roleblocker would require VVVB to be rolled. That already has (assuming I haven't messed stuff up) a probability of around 0.46% at setup-generating level; this isn't even considering that it would also need to there be no SK (which would around cut that probability in half), and that is before conditioning for any personal information one may have, like their role PM. In fact, unless you are either a Vigilante, Roleblocker, or scum with an all-PR team, in your perspective the probability should be even lower than that. In fact, this isn't even considering that the probability of a roleblocker roleblocking the killing scum is clearly much less than 1.

So, that's really not worthy of being considered unless there happens to be some

very

convincing evidence

[biancospino]

Oh, and I didn't ever consider that there are already 3 flipped VTs lol

[biancospino]

Just to be an annoying smartass, we don't actually

know

that, it can be odd Ts + some Vs + one kill got roleblocked or stacked...

[biancospino]

If KKFC is scum they're trying to frame me I think.

I'm curious what it was KKFC said that made you think he was trying to frame you.

They didn't do much but defend me.

Now that's moot since they were just a kinda scummy townie.

That's what I've asked you yesterDay but it doesn't make much sense that you'd think that. 'Cause for scum!Katy that would be a one-for-one which isn't really beneficial to scum; and he would've to have planned that all along for an utility questionable at best and negative at worst.

[biancospino]

I still can't claim I know what N_M is doing. He's essentially not even in this game and is just taking up a slot.

He's just doing the Not_Mafia ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

---

I'm starting to change my mind a bit about Kitty, I was anti-wagon on D1 Kitty because I just didn't see why Enchant didn't like him. Most people seemed to be sheeping Enchant on Kitty. But his framing comment still makes no sense to me. Says that but still conveniently stays off the wagon.

Yes, does not add up.

I mean, there is smoke and all, however, I

am

struggling in identifying exactly what would the scum motivation be. I mean katy's green flip kinda makes any suggestiveness that metaframing may have had moot. I have a tinfoil but I want to keep it to myself for now

[biancospino]

That's what I've asked you yesterDay but it doesn't make much sense that you'd think that. 'Cause for scum!Katy that would be a one-for-one which isn't really beneficial to scum; and he would've to have planned that all along for an utility questionable at best and negative at worst.

Huh? I'm not getting what this means

Put yourself in town!Kitty POV for a sec. The described framing attempt would require Katy to have played with the specific intent to let his red flip implicate Kitty -- 'cause I don't see any other way Katy's lukewarm defense of Kitty could possibly be a framing in any other sense; this framing attempt would need to have been put in place from far before there was any amount of pressure on Katy's slot, so it would have been the original gameplan rather than merely a way to limit damage. Do note how that gameplan would result, if it worked, in one red flip and one green flip -- which is generally

not

a favorable exchange for scum, and so not a sensible original gameplan for scum!katy in the POV we're in

[biancospino]

VOTE: RC

And please don't say I'm obsessed.

sure seems like you are

What it's even going on. You two have been chewing at each other all game and it's getting bizzare

[biancospino]

scum!Kitty: Make it seem like he's on board with KKFC elim while not joining it and keeping his hands clean.

I guess but. He's not keeping his hands clean at all, we're talking of it rn in fact

[biancospino]

Don't you agree that Kitty is a good wagon