Open 106 - Impotence Mafia (Game Over!) before 714


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Post Post #150 (ISO) » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:45 am

Post by Crazy »

Xofelf replaces ZazieR.

Vote Count:


xofelf
(0)
mrfixij
(0)
chenhsi
(1) - EmpTyger
yorgi
(0)
EmpTyger
(1) - chenhsi
afatchic
(0)
BlondeSoWut
(2) - xofelf, StrangerCoug
StrangerCoug
(3) - Caboose, yorgi, Natirasha
Appassionata
(1) - BlondeSoWut
Zakeri
(1) - mrfixij
Caboose
(0)
Natirasha
(2) - afatchic, Zakeri

Not voting
(1) - Appassionata

With 12 players alive, 7 votes will achieve a lynch.

Deadline for Day 1 is January 3.
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Post Post #151 (ISO) » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:07 pm

Post by Zakeri »

Welcome Xofelf.

here's some food for thought. Let's entertain the idea that Blondesowut really is inexperienced. Here's what she's trying to tell us:

1. That Appassionista might be scum because he's generally staying quiet.
2. That Yorgi might be his scum partner because they ignore each other.

of course both of these could be true, but it's too early to tell if either of these things are affected by their scumminess, or if they just haven't gotten around to posting much. Plus, Day one Scum partners almost never work out in a pro-town manor. It's best to find individual things and pin them on a single person. Linking to previously flipped scum is merely a bonus.
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Post Post #152 (ISO) » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:44 pm

Post by afatchic »

Zakeri wrote:Welcome Xofelf.

here's some food for thought. Let's entertain the idea that Blondesowut really is inexperienced. Here's what she's trying to tell us:

1. That Appassionista might be scum because he's generally staying quiet.
2. That Yorgi might be his scum partner because they ignore each other.

of course both of these could be true, but it's too early to tell if either of these things are affected by their scumminess, or if they just haven't gotten around to posting much. Plus, Day one Scum partners almost never work out in a pro-town manor. It's best to find individual things and pin them on a single person. Linking to previously flipped scum is merely a bonus.
If i understood it correctly, then i agree. day 1 don't try to find both scum, or use connections to be able to lynch someone. after the first lynch and night kill, then you can go back and look to see how certain people reacted to certain things, knowing two peoples alignment.
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Post Post #153 (ISO) » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:37 pm

Post by Natirasha »

Oh hey, I forgot about this game.
Natirasha is just a vestige, it's Contessa now.
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Post Post #154 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:34 am

Post by EmpTyger »

Not sure whether I’d switch to SC or Natirasha, but with the deadline still a bit away there’s no reason to leave chenhsi. Still my top suspect, and he hasn’t gotten enough scrutiny or attention for his suspicious activity. Still, we have less time than it seems until deadline, with the upcoming holidays.



SC:
How come you are utterly convinced hyperfocused on me, and then as soon as someone glances at BSW (with something that should not have taken 6 pages to figure out) you all of a sudden unvote me without another word and switch to BSW?

As for your purported case against me- I really think you were just trying to get something to stick, hoping that your arguments avoided scrutiny.

Point 1:
StrangerCoug [116] wrote:<snip>
The benefit to the Mafia is that they'll eventually find out who the vig is by process of elimination.
Well, duh. And the benefit to the town is that we’ll eventually find out who the mafia are by process of elimination. And while the town can win even if it loses all our powerroles, the mafia can’t win if it loses all their members. You’re not considering both sides of this.
I am arguing that the town gets more benefit than the mafia.
StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:The odds of the town roleblocker hitting the Mafia roleblocker isn't very high mathematically and I fear that the vig shooting real bullets will be found and even possibly dead before the town RB locates the Mafia RB. Which is why the consensus is that your idea is bad. The Mafia want the actual vig dead before the Mafia RB is blocked himself, do they not?
<snip>
This is a very odd thing to say. I can’t think of why you care, or why you think the mafia care that much whether the mafia roleblocker is blocked. They get slightly less information, but that’s nothing to do with whether the real vigilante is dead or alive. Really curious where you’re going with this.

Point 2:
StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:The pushy ultimatum. Again, being pushy is scummy.
How on earth do you think that this answers “
I want to you to lay out your complete case against me, now.
Not just a list of what I’ve done; I want an explanation of why you think what I’ve done is suspicious. Because that part keeps changing.”?
There’s no explanation- you listed something I did, and made a blithe generalization. So, please tell me how, considering that you admit you are aware of Natirasha’s pattern of behavior, and agreed that he was behaving antitownly, do you reach the conclusion that that action of mine was antitown?
StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:<snip>
While I'm at it, prove that it mattered to me that your ultimatum was against Natirasha.
<snip>
1) What does that have to do with anything?
2) Why do I need to prove it?
3) Or else what? You’ll… vote me? You’ll… argue that I should be voted?
So, nope. No proof forthcoming from me. I’m calling your bluff.

Point 3:
StrangerCoug [cont] wrote:<snip>
For me to attack this, therefore, is invalid.
So part of your case against me you admit is invalid?
<sarcasm>Why, making an invalid attack- that sounds like something unhelpful that should have been thought out completely beforehand. Now, who was it that I saw using that as a basis for their attack…</sarcasm>



Natirasha:
I retract any indication I gave that you don’t need to die immediately. You have played deliberately antitown. When you got called on it, you appeasingly played slightly better for a couple posts. But then when attention left you, you returned to playing deliberately antitown. Your play does nothing except make it harder for the town to win.



Caboose:
Kind of curious to hear what issue you have with BSW’s argument.



Appassionata:
Appassionata [146] wrote:By Roleplaying did you mean that BlondesoWut is "acting" his "stupid" play?
Did you have any doubt that she was “acting”? And, ignoring the voice that BSW has chosen, what of her play do you consider “stupid”? On the contrary- as Zakeri points out, she’s communicated 2 observations she’s made. (And I’ll go farther, and say that that’s not dependent on whether BSW is or isn’t really inexperienced, as Zakeri prefaced.)
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Post Post #155 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:21 am

Post by EmpTyger »

EmpTyger [154] wrote:Not sure whether I’d switch to SC or Natirasha
<snip>
Actually, with a little more thought: Natirasha. Still not going to yet, but his play just is out-and-out more suspicious than SC's.
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Post Post #156 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 6:26 am

Post by xofelf »

Hey all....I'm going to read over everything and post my thoughts sometime later today but as it seems i already have a vote out
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Post Post #157 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:53 am

Post by xofelf »

Alright...
First things first, there's a couple players that i would like to hear some more of their thoughts on things:
Appassionata
,
BlondeSoWut
,
chenhsi
. it seems to me like they haven't contributed a whole lot to the game(not the person i replaced did either :? )
I will address other players after re-read posts and decide what i want to point out and have clarified.
It will most likely be later in the day today as i have a nasty cold and need to go take a nap. But if anyone has anything in particular they'd like my opinions on, please go right ahead and tell me.
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Post Post #158 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:01 am

Post by Caboose »

BlondeSoWut wrote:I swear I think Apass is in the mafia! Hes doing exactly wut I would if I was in the mafia.

And if hes in the mafia so is Yorgi. He doesnt talk about Yorgi at all. He wants town peoples lynched. Hes not gunna waste his time on the other mafia peoples.
The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).
Nat wrote:Oh hey, I forgot about this game.
Great, anything to add.

Nothing SC has said in recent history has changed my mind on him.
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Post Post #159 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:12 am

Post by BlondeSoWut »

I like Zakeri! He listens to mee!

Nat you arent helping us by saying you forgot the game. What do you think of it so far??

Elf, Hi! Who do you think is in the mafia??

Caboose Im only saying Yorgi is in the mafia if Apass is. I said so in case I die before Apass.
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Post Post #160 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:43 am

Post by StrangerCoug »

BlondeSoWut wrote:Caboose Im only saying Yorgi is in the mafia if Apass is. I said so in case I die before Apass.
Yet there's nothing substantial backing up your saying so.
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Post Post #161 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:07 am

Post by Appassionata »

BlondeSoWut wrote:I like Zakeri! He listens to mee!

Nat you arent helping us by saying you forgot the game. What do you think of it so far??

Elf, Hi! Who do you think is in the mafia??

Caboose Im only saying Yorgi is in the mafia if Apass is. I said so in case I die before Apass.
You've been accusing me since just after random vote period...for barely any reason.
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Post Post #162 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 11:48 am

Post by xofelf »

Alrighty then...right now i'm still trying to figure things out so i'm going to be asking for clarification on certain things...but then i will address certain things more in full...

let's begin with StrangerCoug
SC wrote:When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about.
Why not?

Next Caboose
Caboose wrote:And don't bring up WIFOM either. It's just something that only incompetant scum would do.
Only scum WIFOM? Is that so?

Followed by Natirasha
Nat wrote:If we have 4 claimed vigs, one is scum.
If we have 3 claimed vigs, the roleblocker acts as a doc-cop to the other 9 players.
If we have more than 4 claimed vigs, we essentially win the game because the mafia is retarded.
Alright, could you explain that to me in more detail? i'm not entirely sure how you got that.

Next contestant is: Zakeri
Zakeri wrote:I think the point of her post was "Why not Appassionata and Chenhsi?" Frankly, I sort of agree, and I would like to throw afatchic into that mix as well.
okay let's see if i understand this correctly you've agreed with BSW and you've thrown someone else into the mix, correct? then why haven't you YOURSELF looked into them?

Enter afatchic
afatchic wrote:If i understood it correctly, then i agree. day 1 don't try to find both scum, or use connections to be able to lynch someone. after the first lynch and night kill, then you can go back and look to see how certain people reacted to certain things, knowing two peoples alignment.
But would that necessarily work in the town's favor? It's possible, isn't it, for someone's reaction to be misinterpreted? Just a thought.

Up to bat now is mrfixij
mrfixij wrote:Granted, if blonde is going to continue this train of play, it will be impossible to get a scum or towntell on her using that logic.
How will it be impossible? I'm not sure i understand where you're coming from

Please put your hands together for EmpTyger
Tyger wrote:I’m considering an immediate massclaim of vigilante/not-vigilante. Still tihnking through, but the way I see it:

1) We force the mafia to claim before they have a strategy.
2) The mafia don’t learn the identity of our powerroles. (The real vig is masked in 2 “vanillas”, the roleblocker is masked by 5 vanillas.)
Okay i know you've received hell for that but i have a question. Doesn't massclaiming hurt the town in the end no matter what? Does it ever work the way it's supposed to?

and last but not least yorgi
yorgi wrote: Also EmpTyger gets the point I'm trying to make about your post on Nat. You say he is scum then defend him. What kind of person does this that is town?
You have a point there but don't people in the town make mistakes in judgment? Or realize that they misinterpreted something? Just a thought on my part

okay after i get a couple more thoughts from the ones i mentioned earlier i will address them as well...but some feedback on what i have said above would greatly be appreciated
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Post Post #163 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:00 pm

Post by Caboose »

xofelf wrote:Next Caboose
Caboose wrote:And don't bring up WIFOM either. It's just something that only incompetant scum would do.
Only scum WIFOM? Is that so?
Note that the quote is taken completely out of context. When I said "it's just something that incompetant scum would do" I was refering to the question of whether scum would fakeclaim vig in a mass claim.
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Post Post #164 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:10 pm

Post by StrangerCoug »

xofelf wrote:
SC wrote:When two people are pretty high on my scum list, them both being innocent is simply not something I think about.
Why not?
The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence. Me thinking about them both being innocent also doesn't fit with my aggressive play style. In theory, I could have a knife at everybody's throat, but I am rarely set off by an entire game. But if you want someone lynched, you push and push and push.
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Post Post #165 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:21 pm

Post by xofelf »

Caboose wrote:
xofelf wrote:Next Caboose
Caboose wrote:And don't bring up WIFOM either. It's just something that only incompetant scum would do.
Only scum WIFOM? Is that so?
Note that the quote is taken completely out of context. When I said "it's just something that incompetant scum would do" I was refering to the question of whether scum would fakeclaim vig in a mass claim.
Sorry i missed that..thank you though

[quote="StrangerCoug]
The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence. Me thinking about them both being innocent also doesn't fit with my aggressive play style. In theory, I could have a knife at everybody's throat, but I am rarely set off by an entire game. But if you want someone lynched, you push and push and push.[/quote] okay that makes more sense to me now. Thank you
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Post Post #166 (ISO) » Sun Dec 14, 2008 12:32 pm

Post by Caboose »

StrangerCoug wrote:The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence.
No, it's your job to prove their guilt, it's not their job to prove their innocence. Thus far, you haven't done so, calling both Emp and Nat out on non-scum tells. There's really no way to prove that you are innocent without quoting your role PM.
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Post Post #167 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:17 am

Post by yorgi »

And if hes in the mafia so is Yorgi. He doesnt talk about Yorgi at all. He wants town peoples lynched. Hes not gunna waste his time on the other mafia peoples.
Besides blond who else is actually putting pressure or talking about Ap? Seriously.

The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).
Apass isn't talking about anyone from what I read. Conclusion is invalid please try again.

I'm not sure where the heck Blond came up with this theory but it's based on nothing at all. I don't like Caboose following crap logic he's a better player then that. I don't know Blond and it could be newbie who is still learning, but seriously learn to scum hunt and come up with actually cases not oh let me point to someone and say they are scum with player X because they aren't talking about each other. I'm not the only one not mentioned.

unvote
vote: Caboose


Crap logic for crap reason. Protecting someone or looking for an easy lynch Caboose. Scum either way.
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Post Post #168 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:42 am

Post by Caboose »

yorgi wrote:
The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).
Apass isn't talking about anyone from what I read. Conclusion is invalid please try again.

I'm not sure where the heck Blond came up with this theory but it's based on nothing at all. I don't like Caboose following crap logic he's a better player then that. I don't know Blond and it could be newbie who is still learning, but seriously learn to scum hunt and come up with actually cases not oh let me point to someone and say they are scum with player X because they aren't talking about each other. I'm not the only one not mentioned.

unvote
vote: Caboose


Crap logic for crap reason. Protecting someone or looking for an easy lynch Caboose. Scum either way.
Ummmm...
WTF?

I'm saying that I disagreed w/ BSW's logic.
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Post Post #169 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:52 am

Post by yorgi »

Caboose wrote:
yorgi wrote:
The thing wrong with this arguement is that BSW jumps to the conclusion that Apass isn't talking about Yorgi, therefore they must be scum partners. I believe this isn't a very sound generalization as the same could be said about some other people (Nat, chensi, afatchic).
Apass isn't talking about anyone from what I read. Conclusion is invalid please try again.

I'm not sure where the heck Blond came up with this theory but it's based on nothing at all. I don't like Caboose following crap logic he's a better player then that. I don't know Blond and it could be newbie who is still learning, but seriously learn to scum hunt and come up with actually cases not oh let me point to someone and say they are scum with player X because they aren't talking about each other. I'm not the only one not mentioned.

unvote
vote: Caboose


Crap logic for crap reason. Protecting someone or looking for an easy lynch Caboose. Scum either way.
Ummmm...
WTF?

I'm saying that I disagreed w/ BSW's logic.
I think you are disagreeing with her based on partners. But you are not stating well her case on Apos is nothing. She is linking people and you are like well I can't agree because others aren't talking with Apos, but it seems weak. Like sure Apos can be scum but no question of why. Like I said Blond may be a newb but that doesnt' mean not scum.
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Post Post #170 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:01 pm

Post by mrfixij »

Blonde will be hard to find a scumtell for because we can expect consistently dumb play from her. As such, it's hard to find a difference of intention or information from her as opposed to any other player.
Also answer to 'e, it, scumbag, 'ey you!, and his royal towniness.
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Post Post #171 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:12 pm

Post by Caboose »

yorgi wrote:I think you are disagreeing with her based on partners. But you are not stating well her case on Apos is nothing. She is linking people and you are like well I can't agree because others aren't talking with Apos, but it seems weak. Like sure Apos can be scum but no question of why. Like I said Blond may be a newb but that doesnt' mean not scum.
Do what?
I never tried to play the newbie card for BSW.
I also never tried to put together a case, I was trying to prove how BSW's was weak.
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Post Post #172 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:32 pm

Post by yorgi »

Caboose wrote:
yorgi wrote:I think you are disagreeing with her based on partners. But you are not stating well her case on Apos is nothing. She is linking people and you are like well I can't agree because others aren't talking with Apos, but it seems weak. Like sure Apos can be scum but no question of why. Like I said Blond may be a newb but that doesnt' mean not scum.
Do what?
I never tried to play the newbie card for BSW.
I also never tried to put together a case, I was trying to prove how BSW's was weak.
I could be misreading. Just dont know why you are so nice about it. A crap case is a crap case. It's like pulling nothing out of thin air throwing it down and saying here.
Aways
unvote:
vote: Blond


You may be a newb but saying player X is scummy with nothing behind it then saying another player is scummy because they aren't talking is just wrong and weak to boot. There are many players not mentioned and I feel like scum bussing feeling with your statement.
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Post Post #173 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:57 pm

Post by EmpTyger »

I retract my preference for Natirasha. And, as much as I hate on principle retracting a vote before the issue’s been addressed, I also retract my preference for chenhsi. SC has worked so hard to earn a lynch ASAP- while making it look so easy- that he deserves an
unvote: chenhsi, vote: StrangerCoug
.

Also, this yorgi/Caboose/Apassionata triangle is getting mighty interesting. Particularly yorgi’s panicking.



SC:
StrangerCoug [164] wrote:<snip>
The short and sweet answer is that it's their job, not mine, to prove their innocence. Me thinking about them both being innocent also doesn't fit with my aggressive play style. In theory, I could have a knife at everybody's throat, but I am rarely set off by an entire game. But if you want someone lynched, you push and push and push.
StrangerCoug [116] wrote:<snip>
Again, being pushy is scummy.
<snip>
Enough. You have been spouting nonsense all game. I could also ask what’s insubstantial about BSW’s observation that Apassionata seems to be ignoring Yorgi. Or, better, how come you’re ignoring me all of a sudden. But, I see no reason to wasting time by giving you more opportunity to make baseless attacks, while risking a holiday no-lynch.



chenhsi/Natirasha:
I suggest you not wait until tomorrow to make your defenses, with a certain vigkill going out tonight.



xofelf:
xofelf [162] wrote:<snip>
Doesn't massclaiming hurt the town in the end no matter what? Does it ever work the way it's supposed to?
<snip>
Um, how would having 3 confirmed innocents hurt the town?



mrfixij:
mrfixij [170] wrote:Blonde will be hard to find a scumtell for because we can expect consistently dumb play from her. As such, it's hard to find a difference of intention or information from her as opposed to any other player.
How is this different from, say, Natirasha’s play, which you haven’t said anything about?
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Post Post #174 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:39 pm

Post by afatchic »

xofelf wrote:Enter afatchic
afatchic wrote:If i understood it correctly, then i agree. day 1 don't try to find both scum, or use connections to be able to lynch someone. after the first lynch and night kill, then you can go back and look to see how certain people reacted to certain things, knowing two peoples alignment.
But would that necessarily work in the town's favor? It's possible, isn't it, for someone's reaction to be misinterpreted? Just a thought.
How do you suppose we find scum then?

and yes reactions can be misinterpreted, but then you have to look to see if they consistently react a certain way to a player, once you find out there alignment.

Also, what are some of your thoughts of the players? you seemed to just take snippets from everyone and show how it can be a null-tell.
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