Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween | Endgame

[SmileyDude1]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

[TheHoldSteady]

I can't even begin to wrap my head around that kill.

I used my doc save on you last night.

My PoE is telling me that Enchant and Annie are the other two scum.

[TheHoldSteady]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

Yea, the potential of the roleblocker being an X-shot is partly why I waited a night to use my save. But also, partly because I was frustrated about the Blackstar lim.

[Enchant]

I used my doc save on you last night.

That's why mafia "killed" someone else.

VOTE: THS

[Thestatusquo]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

Yea, the potential of the roleblocker being an X-shot is partly why I waited a night to use my save. But also, partly because I was frustrated about the Blackstar lim.

Am I missing something, what role blocker?

[TheHoldSteady]

Actually now that I think about it, the WIFOM behind THS's doc shot could be why scum didn't target me.

Yea, the potential of the roleblocker being an X-shot is partly why I waited a night to use my save. But also, partly because I was frustrated about the Blackstar lim.

Am I missing something, what role blocker?

My night two track attempt didn't go through and nobody claimed responsibility, so I'm just assuming the presence of a scum roleblocker based off of that

[TheHoldSteady]

I used my doc save on you last night.

That's why mafia "killed" someone else.

VOTE: THS

You know we had a lot riding on whether our bodyguard lived and so I don't see why you'd think I'd push to lim a scum partner who hardly anyone suspected until I said something. Plus, if you reread how Python talked to me around the end of day two, I think you'd also find it sounds more like scum pressuring town that SvS (which is one of the main reasons I had started to suspect them).

[SmileyDude1]

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

Was skimming through Python's ISO when I found this. Likely means at least one more scum was on Wartortle day 1.

Going to start scanning through Python to look for interactions. It's late so i'll probably do 1 batch now (as in after I finish typing this post) then call it a night.

[TheHoldSteady]

Town

: SmileyDude1, usesPython, TheHoldSteady

Townlean

:

Black

,

BlackStar

, Naerys

Null

: Enchant

Scumlean

:

Thestatusquo

, OutWorldER

Scum

:

Hu Tao

, Roden

these reads aged poorly

[TheHoldSteady]

i think annie's reads + the incredibly sketchy switch to limming blackstar at the last second makes him my leading candidate for scum. annie explain your progression on blackstar please?

[Enchant]

I used my doc save on you last night.

That's why mafia "killed" someone else.

VOTE: THS

You know we had a lot riding on whether our bodyguard lived and so I don't see why you'd think I'd push to lim a scum partner who hardly anyone suspected until I said something. Plus, if you reread how Python talked to me around the end of day two, I think you'd also find it sounds more like scum pressuring town that SvS (which is one of the main reasons I had started to suspect them).

I don't care.

[TheHoldSteady]

I used my doc save on you last night.

That's why mafia "killed" someone else.

VOTE: THS

You know we had a lot riding on whether our bodyguard lived and so I don't see why you'd think I'd push to lim a scum partner who hardly anyone suspected until I said something. Plus, if you reread how Python talked to me around the end of day two, I think you'd also find it sounds more like scum pressuring town that SvS (which is one of the main reasons I had started to suspect them).

I don't care.

and I don't think you're town. I think that when you're town despite being a jester you do have some common sense initiative and I'm not seeing here.

[Enchant]

I used my doc save on you last night.

That's why mafia "killed" someone else.

VOTE: THS

You know we had a lot riding on whether our bodyguard lived and so I don't see why you'd think I'd push to lim a scum partner who hardly anyone suspected until I said something. Plus, if you reread how Python talked to me around the end of day two, I think you'd also find it sounds more like scum pressuring town that SvS (which is one of the main reasons I had started to suspect them).

I don't care.

and I don't think you're town. I think that when you're town despite being a jester you do have some common sense initiative and I'm not seeing here.

And i don't care

[AnimatedWiz]

I’m not sure why they would kill Roden, to be honest. It would make more sense—if they wanted an easy scapegoat—to either jump onto my push for Roden and then eliminate me, or just push me for my insistence on killing someone.

Like, if I was scum, why would I townflip the slot I’ve been trying to eliminate the entire game?

I also really don’t understand while Smiley is still alive—I feel like we’ve kind of confirmed Smiley as actually being a Jailkeeper due to Python flipping as scum. Why keep around someone conftown who can potentially block a kill?

[Enchant]

To implue that "Mafia fears hitting doc save".

[AnimatedWiz]

i think annie's reads + the incredibly sketchy switch to limming blackstar at the last second makes him my leading candidate for scum. annie explain your progression on blackstar please?

I thought BlackStar had solid reasoning for scumreading me for most of the game, but once we all claimed, it was very clear that, if I trusted Black and Smiley (which I did), either BlackStar or UsesPython were blocked from committing the nightkill. Out of the two of them, I trusted UsesPython more, and therefore chose BlackStar to go first.

[AnimatedWiz]

To implue that "Mafia fears hitting doc save".

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

[AnimatedWiz]

I would like to push forward the idea of eliminating OWER—I feel like he has been piggybacking a lot of wagons, including the D1 wagon on me, the Wartortle wagon, and the BlackStar wagon.

VOTE: OutWorldER.

[AnimatedWiz]

To implue that "Mafia fears hitting doc save".

I don’t understand what you mean by this.

Ah, took me a second, but I get this now—I am unsure if I, uh, believe THS’s claim, but this could be fair reasoning to explain it. I just feel like there are better targets than Roden for the nightkill, though.

[Dannflor]

I’m gonna go ahead and add 1 day to the deadline due to the American holiday weekend.

[SmileyDude1]

TheHoldSteady and Naerys

Spoiler: TheHoldSteady

932 seems like a TMI frustrated scum post

Where I'm leaning now is probably Roden + Python or Smiley or Black + Python, Smiley, or Outworld? Then I dunno who the third scum would be yet.

It's hard to take these posts seriously when they're put together side by side like this

Discreditory on Python's end towards THS. Feeks unpaired

I feel like THS could be scum coasting on wagonomics and extended OMGUS but I don't actually have a compelling case there and it's not that strong of a read

Python floats scumreading THS for bad wagonomics exppands on this in their 1037

Hot take: scum were off wagon and just silently letting it go through

Unsure if this was brought up earlier, but out of the five people off the Wartortle wagon, who do you think are the scumteam?

I know you scumread BlackStar for it, but that leaves me, Hu Tao, Roden, and THS in consideration for the other two members.

Fullsolves before we've had a single red flip are kinda dumb imo. Blackstar and THS probably flip red and we can go from there once we have stuff to work with

Python pushes on scum THS follows this up with a vote

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

What?

You come out with the conclusion that THS comes out better than OWER. Every votecount but the last is either NAI or should make OWER look

better

from your point of view so since you drop them so much lower than THS the only conclusion we can make is that you think being off wagon is so +town to the extent that scum basically aren't off wagon

Python questions Naery's read of THS coming out better than OWER when doing VCA. Could be intended to maintain pressure on THS?

THS rn has that slimy "Oh shit my partner did something dumb" playing both sides vibe going on where he "has" to react to the doctor claim but also doesn't really wanna have that be the focus of the thread while trying to pull back to the OWER lim

Pushes THS for their stance towards Hu Tao

THS rn has that slimy "Oh shit my partner did something dumb" playing both sides vibe going on where he "has" to react to the doctor claim but also doesn't really wanna have that be the focus of the thread while trying to pull back to the OWER lim

I'm making the doctor claim the focus of the thread because I'm not resting until Hu Tao answers

VOTE: OutworldER

I don't like everything I've seen from Black, but with the Macho watcher claim I feel like we can afford to leave her alone for today. I townread Smiley and Python right now. POE on Wartortle's bandwagon yesterday is telling me that its Outworld

Shades THS for voting OWER

Smiley and Shea are fine, THS has that slimey feel with how he's approaching this

Pushes THS again for their approach towards Hu Tao (Second use of the term slimey)

Why not? I can be very convincing as scum.

We're townlean'd or better by like over half the playerlist, the only person who was TRing you before the claim was like Naerys. You straight up do not win a cc battle there after getting cc'd by a Doctor/Jailkeeper claim

When it comes to counter claims it doesn't always depend on what happened before but during, either way silly conversation. If I magically was revealed town who do you think is scum?

Probably a team with some combination of OWER/THS/BlackStar in it

Posts a tenative solve that doesn't include Hu Tao (who they knew was town) that has THS in it.

Conclusion: I don't think I even need to check the other end of Python/Hold interactions (checking Hold's posts for Python interactions). Just looking through how Python interacted with Hold throughout the first two day phases show that they're probably not paired. Hold's just town here imo.

Spoiler: Naerys

Anyway, while I don't think THS's wagon is NECESSARILY scum motivated, I do think it's >rand that there would be at least one scum who voted them (regardless of THS's alignment), simply because that's how early game wagons work. I like Wartortle, I hate myself but know am not scum*, I semi-like Pythin and I'm trying to pocket Naerys.

So that leaves SmileyDude1 who I am being told is towny this game, and OWER who I feel is lacking vibes-wise.

VOTE: OWER

*this is a joke, I don't hate myself

I feel like Naerys has the worst vote on the wagon, but like, not enough to do anything about it

Spoiler:

So, what else? Outworlder scum for continuing to push this narrative even when there's new evidence to work against it?

this does not make sense.

in 32 OWER calls dragon scum for self-consciousness

in 33, python says that's normal for town dragon

in 34, OWER can't find town dragon doing something similarly self-conscious

then, THS says that OWER is scum because OWER in 34 would have dropped his bad line of reasoning instead of elaborating and looking at dragon's past game

this is a bad argument.

i do not find python's evidence in 33 convincing enough to make OWER's 34 seem idiotic or scummy, and i do not like how THS tries to frame 33 as completely convincingly refuting OWER's case on dragon.

THS seems suspicious indeed

Like this just gives off bad vibes, feels like she wants to push THS without calling wartle town

Also not a huge fan of Python, they point out Naerys vote on the THS wagon but I feel like their own vote they made their isn't much better, really haven't been a fan of any of their votes past RVS tbh.

Our problem with Naerys isn't that she voted for THS but that her vote feels like it was made to say anything at all about wartle who she was sheeping

Python shades Naerys for their THS vote doesn't vote their yet

I am not scum lol, stop pushing me smiley

Welcome back

VOTE: Naerys

Python votes Naerys here, right after she returned to the thread from her operation. This feels slightly less likely to me to be distancing (kind of feel like if paired Python maybe gives Naerys more time to catch up and regain bearings before applying more pressure with a vote)

Also how does that logic apply to Annie when Annie has had Roden as his top SR and isn't even voting for Wartortle?

For Wiz it's the Roden/Naerys preflip that we have a problem with

Potentially a pseudo-defense of Naerys from Python here? Feels like the comment was more meant to shade Wiz for me though

For what it's worth, if this does flip town I don't think it was a scum-driven wagon.

It feels like it built up naturally.

Oh? Who would you say is the scum that drove the wagon?

The votes from Python, Naerys and Enchant didn’t feel natural to me.

I went ahead and used Ctrl+F to check Python's ISO for Wartortle mentions and their vote. What was it that you didn't like?

The part where they reread the game and gave us their reads on each page. It felt like that was all a show to justify hopping on the Wartortle wagon. Especially since they didn’t give us any insight on why they ranked people where they did as they were reading.

Before the reread, they said Wartortle was “spitting” a couple of times and sheeped him on an early read. The jump from that to voting him felt off. They even had Naerys ranked below him after the reread and still voted for Wartortle

Naerys went up enough on page 22/23 to hit the Hu Tao/Wartle tier, we just didnt't bother making the last tier list since we figured it'd be obvious based on us not voting Naerys there

Naerys shift upward is never explained by Python here. Potentially Convenient

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

OutWorldER comes out from this much worse than THS tbh

I don't get how you can get a read from anything other than the last votecount and I don't see why scum can't be off wagon there

All 3 scum outside of the wagon? Possible, but i dont believe that

I'm not talking about having all 3 scum off wagon here, I'm saying your wagonomics implies no scum were off wagon

Wagonomics back and forth between Naerys and Python. Goes on afterwards. but there's a distinct lack of understanding here between the two that feels like it's uncoordinated to me. Like I don't get the vibe this was a planned distancing interaction.

Actually maybe I should stick to my guns and go wiz first

Annie is locktown

I'll trust this for now but thoughts on naerys?

Can you explain why do you suspect me?

Based on everything I said end of day yesterday it looked like you were setting up

A Naerys wagon probably isn't happening today, who else do you think is scum

Interesting tone here. This reads like Python is okay with a Naerys wagon going through (otherwise why not say you don't agree with the wagon instead of saying it's unrealistic).

Kinda have this gut feeling that this is a losing gamestate. All the fights feel TvT and every time we push on the lurkers they give decent responses but there's also 0 town cohesion and half the playerlist is off doing their own thing

So how about everyone gives a lim pool of three and we'll consolidate from there?

Blackstar but that read's kinda stale and we should probably read his latest stuff

Wouldn't stop a Hu Tao/Naerys wagon

We're willing to consolidate on a wagon if one of our townreads is pushing someone we're not townreading

Confirms my earlier thought

Python do you have a read on Naerys

Did it look like BlackStar lim was inevitable to you? Cause to us it did and I don't really see the point of stepping off the bus to be the first person to suggest pushing a VT today

Defense of Naerys from Python here. Python might have been at the point of laying anti-associatives though so not sure how much stock to put into this.

Flipping to Naerys side of the interactions.

hmm
i wish Knott, Hu Tao and heipizhu posted more.
Enchant just leaves me baffled, i honestly dont know what to think about those theatrics.
leaning town: Wiz,DragonEater,Python
Null:BlackStar, OutWorldER(says he likes to pressure lurkers but lurks himself), Smiley - his first posts felt bit scummy, but later went to null
Scum:THS, Wartortle (post no. 20 feels like scum whining)

Was town leaning Python early throughout day 1 and this sustains through part of dat 2 at least 1073

Updated RL:
Solid Town: Smiley, Enchant, Anima
Leaning Town:Thestatusquo
Null:Black,Roden, THS
Leaning Scum:OWER,BlackStar
Solid Scum:Python

Eventually moves Python down to a solid scumread during day 3 after voting Blackstar. Could be distancing on Naerys end from Python's eventual flip, though I think i'm still of the mind that this is too ham-fisted of a switch to come from scum here, like feels like scum would be a bit more self-conscious of the optics here (especially given the vote shortly afterwards would be a bus that chanced Python dying earlier)

Conclusion: I can see hints of partner indicative associations looking through here, but I feel like there's a lack of coordination between the two slots at points that make me maintain the feel Naerys is not paired with Python. I think I feel a tad bit less confident than I was before, though I think I still feel confident enough to say the slot shouldn't be on the chopping block today.

Batch 1 done. I'll probs do batch 2 and 3 after I get off work tomorrow.

[Thestatusquo]

I'm going to be pretty low effort for tomorrow through the weekend, got a lot going on.

[SmileyDude1]

-SNIP-
Batch 1 done. I'll probs do batch 2 and 3 after I get off work tomorrow.
-SNIP-

Might be delayed due to holiday plans now that I think about it. I'll get these out by friday at the latest though.

Anyways night

[Naerys]

I have looked at Python´s ISO. Here i share my notes i made. I wrote them as i went with my thoughts process so it might be bit confusing. Also Roden getting NKed makes the first one void.

Python´s interactions with DragonEater(Roden) and OWER. The lack of interactions with Wiz. The question is, would Python interact with their buddy or not.
Based on Python´s RL THS possible distanced buddy. OWER and THS tend to shift in their RL a bit. (around post 599)
post 594 OWER being in the middle (was it null read?)
post 600 OWER being top (python was TRing them then?)

in 604 Wiz
Those shifts could be attempt to hide Wiz in their reads so nobody would pay attention to them?
TSQ feels like town when interacting with Python
THS probably town

I will look at Roden ISO when i come back from work to look if there is something about the motivation behind the NK. Anyway, OWER is my suspect for now. Wiz dropped to null tier in my RL for now.

[OutWorldER]

I would like to push forward the idea of eliminating OWER—I feel like he has been piggybacking a lot of wagons, including the D1 wagon on me, the Wartortle wagon, and the BlackStar wagon.

VOTE: OutWorldER.

Like, if I was scum, why would I townflip the slot I’ve been trying to eliminate the entire game?

Replace "entire game" with "since D2"

I think I'm on board with Smiley saying THS is town here and Enchant coming into today trying to push his lim for extremely weak reasons feels extremely sus.

VOTE: Enchant