Large Normal 246: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

No bloops

[Keyleth]

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

I understand where your post is coming fromI read it as someone just wanting to state the obvious. However, I personally don't really know where to point the smoking gun because I can see it as either side. I've given Dave BOTD because most people push me because of how I play on here, do you think the shade posts are in bad faith?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not necessarily all of them no; I think it's expected that there will be people that have gripes with your playstyle. I just think Dave's gripes are coming from scum though - not to say he wouldn't feel the same about your play as town, but he isn't doing anything about it, and it doesn't seem like he's doing much of anything else either. His one thing is that your playstyle is easy to fake as scum, but he's not otherwise making pushes elsewhere or on you. Feels like that's his "I'm doing something" and it's a safe "something" to do as well because your playstyle is easy to fake as scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Like it's not a bold or revolutionary take. Very safe, middle of the pack, etc.

[Andresvmb]

I’m going to have to issue VLAs more often in this game it looks like - I was going to catch up and give some thoughts tonight (I was building some furniture yesterday funny enough).

I skimmed quickly and I see that there’s a wagon that’s quickly formed on Celebloki, so I’ll focus on that when I’m back latwr.

For those that don’t know me much - though I can at times rely on some of my gut reads, I don’t think they’re particularly reliable. I think once we have more information you’ll see me be more active.

[Andresvmb]

I did have some early thoughts I wrote down around the time I made my vote, but again I don’t think these are super reliable. In any event, they are as follows:


61 - TimmerRC is probably just Town. Getting a tad upset at a VT claim probably comes from a place of someone who wants the Town to win (which explains the annoyance with a claim that would, if serious, hurt the Town). I see that it was later clarified that it was a serious claim - I thought it had to be a joke, and don’t view it positively either.

67 - This is a Scummy post from KawaiiKame. TimmerRC didn’t call it weird. They didn’t even really imply it was coming from Scum. They simply seemed to question the logic behind making the claim at all.

105 - I agree with the logic here.

117 - This is Town posting by Black.

120 - I don’t know if Town is likely to give out this defense. I am leaning negative on Dunnstral.

137 - This just feels like a bad vote to me.

213 - I am not getting the vibes expressed by Hu Tao, which is why I have negative thoughts (I don’t believe the attack).

[davesaz]

No bloops

VOTE: ssbm_kyouko
I disapprove of anti-bloops too. No intentional pagetops.

[Andresvmb]

I’m going to try to not be in catch up mode at all times but I do struggle so bear with me.

[davesaz]

Not necessarily all of them no; I think it's expected that there will be people that have gripes with your playstyle. I just think Dave's gripes are coming from scum though - not to say he wouldn't feel the same about your play as town, but he isn't doing anything about it, and it doesn't seem like he's doing much of anything else either. His one thing is that your playstyle is easy to fake as scum, but he's not otherwise making pushes elsewhere or on you. Feels like that's his "I'm doing something" and it's a safe "something" to do as well because your playstyle is easy to fake as scum

I'm seeing who goes apeshit one way or the other and who ignores it. The actual material to read people from on d1 is always thin, and this game is no exception.

[davesaz]

I have what I hope is only a head cold. I may not be as energetic as usual. The night-time so you can rest medicine made me wired instead of sleepy so I feel like I've been in a centrifuge for hours.

Got a decent night's sleep, but now it's a work day.

[Black]

Ok I am back

I'm not caught up and there have been lots of posts, and big ones, so it might take me a minute. I don't have much motivation to read it all atm but I'll get to it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Not necessarily all of them no; I think it's expected that there will be people that have gripes with your playstyle. I just think Dave's gripes are coming from scum though - not to say he wouldn't feel the same about your play as town, but he isn't doing anything about it, and it doesn't seem like he's doing much of anything else either. His one thing is that your playstyle is easy to fake as scum, but he's not otherwise making pushes elsewhere or on you. Feels like that's his "I'm doing something" and it's a safe "something" to do as well because your playstyle is easy to fake as scum

I'm seeing who goes apeshit one way or the other and who ignores

it

. The actual material to read people from on d1 is always thin, and this game is no exception.

By "it" you mean your posting about Keyleth? or Keyleth's playstyle? Both?

[davesaz]

Not necessarily all of them no; I think it's expected that there will be people that have gripes with your playstyle. I just think Dave's gripes are coming from scum though - not to say he wouldn't feel the same about your play as town, but he isn't doing anything about it, and it doesn't seem like he's doing much of anything else either. His one thing is that your playstyle is easy to fake as scum, but he's not otherwise making pushes elsewhere or on you. Feels like that's his "I'm doing something" and it's a safe "something" to do as well because your playstyle is easy to fake as scum

I'm seeing who goes apeshit one way or the other and who ignores

it

. The actual material to read people from on d1 is always thin, and this game is no exception.

By "it" you mean your posting about Keyleth? or Keyleth's playstyle? Both?

In some respects, both.
More generally, who responds to my posting and how, and do those I post about seem to care or adjust.

I don't do attack mode in any case.

[Black]

Black is town I think. I don't think scum stews over their wagon like this. I think the conclusion of partner equity comes more from reading us both individually as scum than it does from the references evidence, and probably I need to go back but I dont know why Black is/was voting me.

Why am I town for this exactly?

[Keyleth]

Is there uh, anything I can do to help dave?

[Black]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

[davesaz]

640 bothered me because it was so "mediator-ish" without really adding anything thoughtful. I think we could all see both sides, even if personally we would agree with Gamma or with BQ2: Electric Boogaloo. I don't think it's hard to see that Gamma felt the behavior was manipulative and also that BQ2 did not mean it in that way (or at least says he didn't, which feeds more into it feeling manipulative to Gamma)
And it felt like he had not posted in a while so I went back to see when he posted last and what happened.

You'd be surprised how many people

don't

see both sides. In particular though, the two participants who clearly aren't seeing what the other is thinking.

So since it's apparent what the situation is, why post at all? 640 feels like a long post about... nothing.

If I can stop a tunnel by making the two participants see how they are failing to connect, I save the game from having to slog through that. It is pro-town to deobfuscate, and part of my personality as a dad and for other reasons.

And I didnt remember dave posting recently

Better living through chemistry, except when it isn't.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I did have some early thoughts I wrote down around the time I made my vote, but again I don’t think these are super reliable. In any event, they are as follows:

61 - TimmerRC is probably just Town. Getting a tad upset at a VT claim probably comes from a place of someone who wants the Town to win (which explains the annoyance with a claim that would, if serious, hurt the Town). I see that it was later clarified that it was a serious claim - I thought it had to be a joke, and don’t view it positively either.
67 - This is a Scummy post from KawaiiKame. TimmerRC didn’t call it weird. They didn’t even really imply it was coming from Scum. They simply seemed to question the logic behind making the claim at all.
105 - I agree with the logic here.
117 - This is Town posting by Black.
120 - I don’t know if Town is likely to give out this defense. I am leaning negative on Dunnstral.
137 - This just feels like a bad vote to me.
213 - I am not getting the vibes expressed by Hu Tao, which is why I have negative thoughts (I don’t believe the attack).

61 - Timmer said he comes from a site where claiming is not allowed and was not upset but confused I think? Actually this is unfair of me given the last bit of 61 -

so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

67 - Kawaii didn't say Timmer called it weird - Kawaii was himself calling it weird, and was replying to Timmer's post but was adding more commentary on the Hu Tao VT claim.
120 - Dunn isn't really defending anything here unless you want to say he's defending KawaiiKame

from

Gamma - that's a reference to his earlier post (113) questioning how believable Elements' 40 was.

I thought you misread/misconstrued the 3 posts you had the most "meaty" commentary on but it seems like it was 2 of the 3 actually. Not the happiest with this catch-up

[davesaz]

Is there uh, anything I can do to help dave?

Quote things and say what you think about them would be a good start. More than just like or don't like. For me to evaluate your alignment (or anyone's) I need to know if what you say makes sense given the events, and that's pretty well impossible without a fair amount of because clauses.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Black is town I think.

I don't think scum stews over their wagon like this.

I think the conclusion of partner equity comes more from reading us both individually as scum than it does from the references evidence, and probably I need to go back but I dont know why Black is/was voting me.

Why am I town for this exactly?

Do you want more detail than that? When I said "their" wagon I meant my wagon that you were (are still?) on, to be more clear. Iirc you had started that wagon. I didn't think scum!you (this is a read on scum behavior in general, not you specifically) was likely to hyperfixate on my wagon so early on D1.

[Black]

Black is town I think.

I don't think scum stews over their wagon like this.

I think the conclusion of partner equity comes more from reading us both individually as scum than it does from the references evidence, and probably I need to go back but I dont know why Black is/was voting me.

Why am I town for this exactly?

Do you want more detail than that? When I said "their" wagon I meant

my wagon

that you were (are still?) on, to be more clear. Iirc you had started that wagon. I didn't think scum!you (this is a read on scum behavior in general, not you specifically) was likely to hyperfixate on

my wagon

so early on D1.

I guess I didn't really understand that line you bolded. I still don't.

What are you referring to as "my wagon" here

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Black is town I think.

I don't think scum stews over their wagon like this.

I think the conclusion of partner equity comes more from reading us both individually as scum than it does from the references evidence, and probably I need to go back but I dont know why Black is/was voting me.

Why am I town for this exactly?

Do you want more detail than that? When I said "their" wagon I meant

my wagon

that you were (are still?) on, to be more clear. Iirc you had started that wagon. I didn't think scum!you (this is a read on scum behavior in general, not you specifically) was likely to hyperfixate on

my wagon

so early on D1.

I guess I didn't really understand that line you bolded. I still don't.

What are you referring to as "my wagon" here

By "their wagon" I meant the wagon you were pushing on me. I called it "yours" because you were pushing it but normally a third party would call it "the wagon on ssbm_Kyouko" if they were being very specific. I don't think scum does what you did, therefore I think you are not scum, leaving you as town

[davesaz]

I like Keyleth's playstyle
I can see it being town but also a good way to hide as scum

Isn't that a bad thing? Why would you like a style that lets scum hide?

I can appreciate the desire to keep one's reads close to the chest

It seems my failure to reply after going to sleep was construed as lack of followup by some. Let's remedy that.
Playstyle aside, do you have a read on Keyleth?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh, going back to read it now since I was wondering why you were confused about that, I think you were actually wagonning Guillotina at the time so it would be the wagon on Guillotina I was referring to. I made 465 when I read 384 - you were voting me before Guillo and I think that's why when remembering back now I thought I was referring to your vote/wagon on me