Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[Aliana]

Pagetop get.

[Celebloki]

Spoiler:

I re-read. Like Drew, probably my top town read.

Altaria, Dragon are my scumreads.

UNVOTE: Doctor Drew

I cant remember what I said before, but Drew seems towny for sure here.

VOTE: Altaria

I like kyoukou as well.

Don't like Altaria, Dragon Eater or Celebloki.

Hu Tao seemed good too.

Drew/Dragon/Altaria

One of these contains mafia for sure btw. I don't think it's Drew.

In gob's posting he liked to call the 'A's scummy as well as Dragon, but he also tried to pump the brakes on the Dragon wagon so he could get shot at night. He liked to TR Drew and Kyouko. He even called Drew his top town read, so idk if this would be town spewing on his part...

[Celebloki]

Spoiler:

Sup nerds

VOTE: Hu Tao

Whats this all about ?

VOTE: Gob

VOTE: Hu Tao

But why

But why

Why not

True

I;m not feeling this hu tao wag

Why not?

Why not?

Feels like counter to Altaria wagon

He had this whole RVS shenanigans with Hu Tao and then later was opposing her D1 wagon. Sorry I'm just kinda brain dumping here while I mull it over.

[Celebloki]

Interestingly, I don't think he ever had any interaction with geraintm or even mentioned his name.

[Celebloki]

My main reason for TRing geraintm is that I had a hard time reconciling that scum would hammer their scumbuddy in a 2-person scumteam on D1. But maybe that was why he would do it...

[Aliana]

So, I have a question, assuming scum isn't getting roleblocked or the NK target is not getting protected. What Scum PR role would be worth doing over performing a NK? There's no like arsonist or something in this format is there? I feel like unless the scum is being very tricksy by holstering, they must be getting blocked one way or the other by the JK.

There's no chance of third parties in this, so there are three scenarios right now.
1. Scum holstered.
2. Dragon blocked a kill.
3. Kyouko blocked a kill, if her role (currently unknown) is capable of doing so.

I doubt the reason for no-killing would be specifically to use a power role, as they could achieve more by just killing the player they planned to investigate/block/whatever.

[Aliana]

Oddly enough, I think my towniest read is geraintm. I'm kind of thrown for a loop. I think my next Towniest are Black and Kyouko. There's something in the back of my head that's being a little conspiracy theorist that Kyouko's "PR soft claim that makes Black's claim make sense for setup reasons" could be Kyouko pocketing Black, but I'm trying not to let the crackpot win me over. My POE says it's in Dragon, Hu Tao, Drew, Aliana but I'm having a hard time narrowing it down too much further.

If Dragon is scum, why do you think he chose to claim the role he did while also bussing his partner? I explained why a while back, will grab the post in a second, but those actions don't make sense together to me and I think Dragon is competent enough to consider the future effects of his claim.

[Aliana]

Thing I am pondering: if Dragon is scum, does he really claim JK and then continue to sit on his partner? Because after that, he either has to kill and confirm someone as town every day (if there's only one scum, which there probably is, a kill going through clears his target), or no-kill and then get called a liar when his "target" flips town. Oh, and not to mention deal with all the questions about why he's not dead on Day 5. The claim would seem to screw him over quite badly if he's maf. At the very least, it would be better for him to keep his buddy alive if he's going to claim that, which does not align with the way he actually played yesterday.

This one.
Though I just realized he's claiming 2-shot, so this argument is a bit weaker when considering that.

[Black]

I'm having an issue where I feel really paranoid and unsure about this

I don't really think it's Celebloki or Hu Tao

I initially didn't think it could be Drew but now I'm getting gut feelings about things in his ISO. It feels like he's laying low and sowing doubt where he can

Also remember, Dragon could have jailed the NK target as well.

This feels like he could have been paranoid about being Dragon's target. It could also just be town!Drew pointing out possible scenarios, so idk

Anywho to keep things game related.

I really think it is Umlaut as scum.

Definitely could be a deep wolf here though.

I don't really think that Alt would hard defend Gob like that as a buddy, and then just give up. But I still can't shake the feeling that she is.

This Umlaut read and the conviction behind it seems to come out of nowhere. And no explanation feels even worse. It just makes me think Drew was trying to push the misfade along

It just doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to target me over Dragon

Pardon me for not fully believing you would be the NK target, even if Dragon is actually the JK.

My gut is telling me we YOLO this and kick Black outta here.

This gut feeling about me doesn't match the read in his previous post where he said he really didn't think I would hard defend gob. And if his gut was telling him this then I'm not sure why he wouldn't have voted for me? It felt like he was throwing this out to see if anyone would support it

Like Dragon is posting elsewhere on the site but he just forgot about a game in which he's a PR and scum was faded D1? Doesn't seem very likely to me

It might be just as simple as he is scum and is basically giving up.

Then Drew casts some shade on Dragon here after I expressed doubts about him

My issue is that I can see some of these thoughts coming from a town!Drew perspective. But it just doesn't feel like he's doing much other than pushing certain ideas along. He's not really thinking critically about these things, which makes me think he's just happy with anything we do that doesn't involve fading him

I know kyouko and Alianna said they really don't think it's Drew. I'm wondering if I'm just missing something here and I should be looking elsewhere

[Black]

I think Aliana arguing to clear Dragon feels good and I was more paranoid about it being her D2 than I am today

I don't really think it's geraintm but he's not really doing much of anything

Kyouko claimed the PR and tried to clear me in a situation where she could have just claimed VT and pushed me if she were scum, so I don't think it's her either

It just feels like Drew makes sense. Someone tell me if I'm wrong to think this

[Black]

Gob, how seriously did you really take Drew's openwolfing? Are you actually that level-0 of a thinker or do you think he's cheeky scum playing games?

Tbf, both can be true.

I think Gob can be a player to react first thinking they caught someone without giving it some real thought first.

But, the lack of follow up and how certain they were that I.....slipped or something? Does seem like a noobScum play maybe?

I added question marks since I find it hard to believe that scum* would vote me like that, but I need to hear more from Gob to say they are town.


*also that would mean Gob is bussing, also a terrible play, I am the one who

knocks

busses.

This read feels on the fence and problematic

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

[Black]

Briefly skimmed gob's ISO in DEFCON and it does seem better, though I don't have the context of actually looking at the interactions.

Briefly skimmed gob's ISO in DEFCON and it does seem better, though I don't have the context of actually looking at the interactions.

Defcon probably isn't the best meta source haha

Okay fiiiiiiiiiiiine, you can be scum.

VOTE: Doctor Drew

@Altaria - I see what you mean there. I've been looking through gob's completed games for a towngame but it's taken me quite a while to find one.

Man does everyone just blindly follow meta on this site?

What is a better town strategy? Looking up a players meta to understand how they play as certain alingments?

Or....

Voting players who shit post?

I will leave that on the table for discussion amongst the class

I like this post and I 110% agree with it, but somehow it makes me a little uneasy. There is no logical reason why.

Must be shading your buddy!

P-edit: Oh, why so?

Defcon was basically a meme game.

I nuked my buddy because I let Firebringer control my nuke, and almost rode that to a scum victory(Now that is some open wolfing lol)

It is so hard to get a solid read on anyone that game......was so fucking fun to play though.

This could be a legitimate thought but I don't feel good about Drew combating Alianna's meta read on gob here

[Black]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

I'm sorry. I was kinda hoping you could talk me out of this since you know him way better. But if you're struggling too then that makes me feel worse about it

[Celebloki]

I do tend to agree that it's likely not Dragon, on my POE list Dragon is the one in it that's least likely for me. I think my top 2 are Hu and Drew. I kind of had a similar thought as Black to Drew's 578 which is why I rebutted it at the time. The vibe I got was that maybe he thought he was the JK target and that he was caught. This is why I said later I was surprised Dragon said his target was Altaria. I was just waiting for Dragon to come in and say he had targeted Drew that night. Since our plan was to yeet that person I was ready to go.

It's obviously completely possible Drew targeted Altaria for the NK and was saved by Dragon.

[Black]

these are some of the posts that stood out to me. it's not the strongest read but for page 8 it feels good enough. i also just want gob to do something instead of "taking it easy" and not taking things seriously so hopefully this helps

why is titus scum

why not?

I don't think it's Roden.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Feel like its not Gamma here.

Why

Why not

I was just throwing it out there lol

I was just throwing it out there lol

So there's no reason why you feel like it can't be her? You're just saying it to say it? What's the point?

I like saying out of pocket shit to see what people say

Okay I just looked at gob's ISO in DEFCON 6 and yeah this isn't town!gob

VOTE: gob

VOTE: Dragon

Lol, literally just said defcon is not a good game for a meta read on anyone.

This feels so bad

[Black]

Actually I'll answer my own question, the case in 304 isn't bad. Well, some of it is bad but at least I like the point about 36.

VOTE: Drew

Being a co-founder of the Whiskey Pocket, I didn't think you would betray me like this.

It is so funny how I have been the the lynchpin of this game, really fueling my ego though.

And is funny to see how it got to this from my perspective, though I feel like leaning into me open wolfing is becoming detrimental to town so I am trying to dial it back a bit.

Like I said though, is giving some interesting reads here on how people are making some very impressive olympic level mental gymnastics to call me scum lol.

This feels defensive in a really casual way, like Drew is concerned about seeming too defensive

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

I'm sorry. I was kinda hoping you could talk me out of this since you know him way better. But if you're struggling too then that makes me feel worse about it

It's more like I see where you're coming from with some of your points but haven't fully processed your arguments yet.
I don't read or re-evaluate at night so I still feel like I need to do a proper re-read.

[Black]

I'm at the point in Drew's ISO where he argues with me over moving off of gob. This is what originally made me want to clear him once gob flipped. I'm trying to think of why he would do this as his scum partner, and the only thing I can come up with is that he figured the bus would clear him for the rest of the game. His conviction in scum!gob during this argument doesn't really feel natural. If Drew knew gob was scum here then he could have legitimately thought that he could make me seem scummy by jumping off of scum and onto Hu Tao

I'm a little worried that some of this is conf bias but I can see it

[Aliana]

Well now you're making me question my Drew read all over again. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!
*bangs head against desk*

I'm sorry. I was kinda hoping you could talk me out of this since you know him way better. But if you're struggling too then that makes me feel worse about it

It's more like I see where you're coming from with some of your points but haven't fully processed your arguments yet.
I don't read or re-evaluate at night so I still feel like I need to do a proper re-read.

I'm also paranoid of him and will feel like a clown if he fools me twice.

[Black]

I'm also going to try to re-read more tomorrow morning to make sure I'm not just tunneling here, but Drew just makes the most sense to me

[Aliana]

I'm also going to try to re-read more tomorrow morning to make sure I'm not just tunneling here, but Drew just makes the most sense to me

Sorry if you've already answered this question somewhere, but why is it not Cele?

[Black]

I'm also going to try to re-read more tomorrow morning to make sure I'm not just tunneling here, but Drew just makes the most sense to me

Sorry if you've already answered this question somewhere, but why is it not Cele?

I'm a little paranoid about Cele (tbf I'm a little paranoid about everyone) but I would say I'm less paranoid about him than others. I think he's engaged and trying to solve this thing. I would be fine letting someone like him making it a little further over someone like Drew who just seems to be coasting

[Black]

I do tend to agree that it's likely not Dragon, on my POE list Dragon is the one in it that's least likely for me. I think my top 2 are Hu and Drew. I kind of had a similar thought as Black to Drew's 578 which is why I rebutted it at the time. The vibe I got was that maybe he thought he was the JK target and that he was caught. This is why I said later I was surprised Dragon said his target was Altaria. I was just waiting for Dragon to come in and say he had targeted Drew that night. Since our plan was to yeet that person I was ready to go.

It's obviously completely possible Drew targeted Altaria for the NK and was saved by Dragon.

Why do you think it could be Hu Tao here?

[Black]

Alianna, this is gonna sound funny but one of my hesitations with you is that you seem willing to trust me here. After Backup6 I'm pretty surprised that you don't seem to be that concerned about me being scum. Or maybe you are and aren't showing it? I'm interested in your read on me