Mini 2321: Classic Commercials (Postgame)

[AnimatedWiz]

But you said you don't believe there can be 2 investigative roles in 1335, so you're not expecting a cop.

Friendly neighbor and Mason don't need a rolecop to check them to be confirmed town. Neither does Innocent Child.

Vigilante is obvious because an extra person dies - again, doesn't need to be checked.

Well, a pair of claimed Masons can always just be scum lying about their roles to cover each other (and hoping neither gets eliminated to expose the deception), and not all Vigilantes kill immediately.

And again, Juggernaut is an immediate guilty.

[Dunnstral]

I believe that town Role Cop is a weak standalone role for town's investigative power and that it does not make sense as the only investigative. It is about as powerful as a tracker, roughly. Neapolitan is much more powerful, and is slightly below the power of a normal Cop.

I think your plan to eliminate Celebloki and target somebody else is a very bad plan, and that you should instead target Celebloki with the belief that mafia can only block one of you two, and see what happens.

[AnimatedWiz]

Notably, there is technically a possibility of a Scum Neapolitan—I don’t think it’s likely, but it does kind of confirm someone as a town PR if they don’t receive a Vanilla Townie result on someone. Bit wonky, though.

I think that Bingle is saying that if you are a town rolecop, this kind of setup "gotcha" is unlikely to be used in a simple game. Specifically Celebloki being a mafia-aligned Neapolitan when there are simpler roles, such as Vanilla Cop, that mafia could have.

I agree that’s it’s unlikely, but this is one of the first Simple Normal games on this site—the format’s new and we don’t exactly know if the reviewers would consider it too complex mechanically for the queue. If all the other power roles are mechanically uncomplicated or there’s very few other power roles, it might be considered fine.

And again, there’s the possibility that Celebloki is just lying about his role.

[Dunnstral]

And again, there’s the possibility that Celebloki is just lying about his role.

In which case role copping them would be a great use of your role.

[AnimatedWiz]

I just also really don’t trust you, Dunn, and Bingle’s vibes haven’t been stellar either. If someone I townread supported your arguments, I’d be far more likely to consider it.

I might need to step back and consider if I’m tunneling too hard.

[Dunnstral]

I get that you don't trust me. If the majority of players come on and agree that you should role cop Celebloki, would you do it?

[AnimatedWiz]

I get that you don't trust me. If the majority of players come on and agree that you should role cop Celebloki, would you do it?

I’m a little too stubborn for me to guarantee I would do it, but I definitely would weigh the option a lot more heavily. I just… really would not like to rolecheck him and later find out he’s a scum Neapolitan—I think I’m fearing looking a fool a bit too much.

[Thomith]

At the very least I think Rolecopping Celebloki could clear up if the claimed role is real.

Obviously it doesn't necessarily confirm Town/Scum, but if he is lying about his role, it at least pretty much confirms a scum. I think the information from it either way does give us some confirmed information we can potentially use, rather than rolecopping somebody else.

[Thomith]

I think one of the main concerns right now is if the Neap claim is real, so clearing that up could be useful.

[Bingle]

Obviously it doesn't necessarily confirm Town/Scum, but if he is lying about his role, it at least pretty much confirms a scum. I think the information from it either way does give us some confirmed information we can potentially use, rather than rolecopping somebody else.

It kinda does though.

You are playing a Simple Normal game. These games are designed to provide a newbie-friendly and traditional mafia experience, with little focus on setup speculation.

If there is a scum neap who exists specifically to be a pseudo inno for a town RC, that's 100% a "focus on setup spec" element. Which is specifically not a thing in this game type. Thus, by utilizing setup spec well, we can see that Neap is basically an innocent for a rolecop.

Also, town role cop is no where near as strong as tracker the vast majority of the time.

[Hu Tao]

I would definitely prefer to not be the wagon today for obvious reasons, but I really don’t understand the push for me.

Anyway, I’m not going to just sit around and die.

I’m the

Town Role Cop

, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Oh.. awkward. I thought someone else softed an innocent on me. But if you had that, why would you be willing to compromise a vote on me? Also this likely means a scum in Cele and Wiz. I don't see town having both? I'll think this over

[Hu Tao]

I believe that town Role Cop is a weak standalone role for town's investigative power and that it does not make sense as the only investigative. It is about as powerful as a tracker, roughly. Neapolitan is much more powerful, and is slightly below the power of a normal Cop.

I think your plan to eliminate Celebloki and target somebody else is a very bad plan, and that you should instead target Celebloki with the belief that mafia can only block one of you two, and see what happens.

Can you explain why you think they can both be town? Aren't their roles kind of overlapped?

[Hu Tao]

We have 4 days, so we have time to think this over

UNVOTE:

[Thomith]

I would definitely prefer to not be the wagon today for obvious reasons, but I really don’t understand the push for me.

Anyway, I’m not going to just sit around and die.

I’m the

Town Role Cop

, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Oh.. awkward. I thought someone else softed an innocent on me. But if you had that, why would you be willing to compromise a vote on me? Also this likely means a scum in Cele and Wiz. I don't see town having both? I'll think this over

Vanilla from a Rolecop isn't an innocent?

[Hu Tao]

What's to think? AniWiz just claimed a role that can get a functional inno on a role that can get an actual inno on FL. If we leave all three alive into the night, we get a buttload of info from who mafia kills, whether anyone gets blocked, and the actual elimination from today.

Meanwhile, none of Hu Tao's scumpoints have disappeared and she's apparently vanilla checked, which is a verification point towards Wiz's role at the very least, even if Hu is somehow town here.

2+2 isn't particularly hard math.

That math doesn't make sense to me. Why would that lead to me being the vote out?

[Hu Tao]

I would definitely prefer to not be the wagon today for obvious reasons, but I really don’t understand the push for me.

Anyway, I’m not going to just sit around and die.

I’m the

Town Role Cop

, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Oh.. awkward. I thought someone else softed an innocent on me. But if you had that, why would you be willing to compromise a vote on me? Also this likely means a scum in Cele and Wiz. I don't see town having both? I'll think this over

Vanilla from a Rolecop isn't an innocent?

It means I'm vanilla townie or mafia goon. If anything I think there is at most 2 goons. So if we get rid of 2 goons I'm pretty much a pseudo clear

[Dunnstral]

Neapolitan determines whether a player is a vanilla townie.

So role cop checks you Hu Tao and sees "Vanilla". You could be a vanilla townie, or a mafia good; this is not clearing. If a Neapolitan checks you, they are checking whether or not you are a vanilla townie. They get a yes result if you are a vanilla townie, and a no result if you are a mafia goon; this is a clearing role, and this results in a big difference in power.

In order for Role Cop to be useful, there are only a few players in the game that they can check and produce meaningful results on; town power roles and mafia power roles, and even then there is confusion about what is what.

All Neapolitan has to do is check a player who is not a power role, which is much easier

[Dunnstral]

I would definitely prefer to not be the wagon today for obvious reasons, but I really don’t understand the push for me.

Anyway, I’m not going to just sit around and die.

I’m the

Town Role Cop

, and Hu Tao is a vanilla role. Part of the reason I’m pushing Celebloki is due to doubt about there being two Town investigative roles—does that explain my push on them better?

Oh.. awkward. I thought someone else softed an innocent on me. But if you had that, why would you be willing to compromise a vote on me? Also this likely means a scum in Cele and Wiz. I don't see town having both? I'll think this over

Vanilla from a Rolecop isn't an innocent?

Nope; the target can still be a mafia goon as that is the "vanilla" role for mafia, and role cop is not intended to give direct alignment information

[Hu Tao]

I'm starting to think Dunn town

[Flavor Leaf]

Dunn been obv town

[Flavor Leaf]

We have 4 days, so we have time to think this over

UNVOTE:

Keep in mind, the next 2 or 3 days are going to be extreme limited access for people, but frozen deadline helped

[Flavor Leaf]

Celeb is not Scum Neap if scum. They’re probs a Complex/Simple role or a Vanilla Cop

[Flavor Leaf]

Possibly Role Cop

[Flavor Leaf]

@Hu Tao - say you and I were Masons, Naerys got cop inno’d, and Wiz was faded and flipped town

Who’s scum?

[Thomith]

Celeb is not Scum Neap if scum. They’re probs a Complex/Simple role or a Vanilla Cop

Complex/Simple modifiers aren't allowed in Simples I don't think?