Mini Normal 2317 - Postgame

[Sleepy Dragon]

Evidence*

[Sleepy Dragon]

I still just wish we would go with Snivy.

And who has been chainsaw defending snivy all fucking day? Dragon.

How exactly have I been chainsaw defending Snivy? I've been okayish with a Snivy lim most of the day

Can we just lim this? This is exactly the same Bingle who was scum in Veiled Committee Mafia

[Sleepy Dragon]

Have you?

I don't think you want Snivy limmed at all.

It's because I am sus of Snivy, but not sus enough to lim him today.

I am not buying what Sleepy is selling right now.

That's bs, you don't have to buy anything, nor am I selling anything. You said you were okay with voting Bingle. What changed your mind?

[Sleepy Dragon]

K lol

Flip Bingle/Drew when I flip green, gg ez game. Bingle first just in case Drew is being a clown.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Though tbh I don't even flip here, it's much more likely I die tonight.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I wish Aureal was here to help me push Bingle

[Sleepy Dragon]

Taly why the fuck are you starting a new wagon less than 20 hours to deadline on someone who is not even on the table for a lim?

[Sleepy Dragon]

2.18

Votecount 2.18

camelCasedSnivy (3): Doctor Drew, gob,

Celebloki

Taly (2): Naerys, Titus
Bingle (2): Sleepy Dragon, camelCasedSnivy
gob (1): Chell
Sleepy Dragon (1): Bingle

Not Voting (1): Taly

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an execution or 5 to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-28 23:17:00).

This VC tells you all the viable wagons for today (except that maybe Drew is viabe but idrk).

[Sleepy Dragon]

sell me why

naerys

is town

Naerys has never rolled scum on this site. If she is scum this game, then this would be her first scum game ever.

Do you actually think a first time scum player would randomly crumb Complex Mailman on Day 1 and then claim it for no reason at all? And then proceed to not use it?

This is completely aside from the fact that Naerys is in her town meta completely and utterly. Read her in Large Normal 244 and in Large Normal 245 and compare to here. I don't think a first time scum player fakes their own meta easily.

Also she's like very clearly unagenda'd in how she's playing.

I'll get to your other post in a bit (might be a couple of hours but hopefully not because there's a deadline).

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys wtf are you even talking about

[Sleepy Dragon]

True huh

Celebloki let's do this:

Can you vote Bingle

[Sleepy Dragon]

And then we actually get a wagon instead of paralysis

[Sleepy Dragon]

I was gonna say vote me off if Bingle is town but that's stupid, I don't want to auto lose if he ends up being town

[Sleepy Dragon]

The best case I can make about Bingle right now is that he omgused me twice, and in a way that very much doesn't feel towny to me

Like I would expect town!him to accuse me of tunneling rather than OMGUS

But aside from that, it's just a shitty omgus and a shitty scumread on me. It does not feel like he's engaging in good faith. Even his defending of himself was not in good faith. Like he AtE'd about how I scumread him for being inactive when he had a shitty day at work, when A) I didn't scumread him for being inactive and B) I had NO WAY to know he had a shitty day at work (this is not now but some time earlier).

Pedit

: Naerys what you should be doing right now is convincing people to join the wagon you are on.

[Sleepy Dragon]

guys there's 8 hours to deadline please consolidate.

[Sleepy Dragon]

gth thoughts

bingle's

frustration feels sincere and i dont like the build up, preflip associatives, or framing of the case by

sleepy

or

naerys

votehopping in particular

Disagree that the frustration feels sincere
It feels like scum frustration if anything

What preflips did I do?

Also this might be a good time to say that I don't think Drew is scum with Bingle actually, I don't think scum!Drew would blatantly sheep his own scum partner with horrible reasoning like that.

snivy

going after a slot with minimal traction feels a bit unsurvivalistic so im feeling less apt to E1 or hammer

True but I have seen him do that as scum IIRC.

gob

i still dont follow your assumption on how

elements/khaos

wagons were TvS and i feel that its a scumsiding narrative to correlate

elements

townflip with the other counter being scum

This I agree with, and I think gob might be scum but I am not even close to sure about it tbh. Though I am not close to sure about anyone at this stage except Naerys and Titus being town.

pedit

Taly why the fuck are you starting a new wagon less than 20 hours to deadline on someone who is not even on the table for a lim?

arent they? i could congeal here but im not feeling strong in current options, i also need more time with catching up\

Not really, I think the only people remotely interested in a Naerys wagon are like Bingle and gob?

pedit again

but im not comfortable with the wagons

How good is your read accuracy? Because I am more than 90% confident that both Titus and Naerys are town, and basically willing to lim anyone outside of them/me/the IC. And I do have meta on both.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Look I'm not saying I'm sure Bingle is scum. I'm saying I am sure he is a better lim than me, Naerys or Titus and I also think he is a better lim than Chell and Taly currently.


This is @everyone, not at Taly in particular.

[Sleepy Dragon]

unofficial vc

Bingle (3): Sleepy Dragon, camelCasedSnivy, Naerys
camelCasedSnivy (2): gob,

Celebloki

Sleepy Dragon (2): Bingle, Doctor Drew
Taly (1): Titus
gob (1): Chell

Not Voting (1): Taly

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to secure an execution or 5 to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-28 23:17:00).

[Sleepy Dragon]

Let's consolidate please.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm willing to consolidate on Snivy if needed.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I wish i was better at convincing people.
The thing i noticed is that while Bingle seems to have some well written town reads, but i feel like he kind of didnt develop his SR since like his post 1051
Well, except when he SR Dragon, but thats reaction to being pushed by Dragon.
Bingle´s SR in 3272 kinda feels forced and half- baked.

Please, we need to consolidate.

I do agree with you it feels half baked.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Celebloki I know you are excited to be conftown but I think the right play here is sheeping me

Chell sheeps me 90% of the time if she even remembers this game exists

Taly idk where she's standing but hopefully she consolidates here

Titus I know we grew distant this day phase but it's just because this is a horrible day phase and I'm also severely lacking in time so we didn't get to properly engage, but I promise you I'm still town like i was in the last day phase and it would be most excellent if you sheep.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Who is it, then?

[Sleepy Dragon]

And why do you not think it's Bingle?

[Sleepy Dragon]

dragon is there a reason you feel uncharitable towards like everyone in the game this game

like i feel like you're assuming the worst intentions of every slot which if you're town is making it hard to want to work with you

I'm not sure I am?

I have like 4 people I'm willing to vote right now in Snivy/Bingle/gob/Drew

Earlier today also Khaos

I'm in fact assuming that some of these people ARE scum. But I don't think I've assumed that you/Naerys/Titus/Taly have bad intentions.

[Sleepy Dragon]

also you keep being like "someone needs to obvtown!" which is very annoying because like, this is me trying to play my best as town with time constraints

like it's not my fault i have a decent scum range

I cannot realistically break that range completely more than like once a year

It actually is your fault you have a decent scum range

I understand why it's annoying, I'm myself annoyed that I don't have a confident TR on you. Not being willing to vote you today should be pretty good though, don't you think? Like I am not sure why you call this uncharitable.

Pedit: okay that makes more sense

[Sleepy Dragon]

idk im considering whether you vs. bingle can be a TvT but if it is the game feels kinda hopeless

That I agree with

it's also what I feel about gob. If he's town how the hell do we solve this

But he CAN be town and it's really frustrating.

[Sleepy Dragon]

gob i just feel very certain *is* scum and it is frustrating to me that the window has basically closed to kill him today

I mean how many people are here rn?

@Chell, Naerys, Celebloki (I know you like lurking), Snivy, if we decided all at once would ya move to gob? Or nah? Also Titus if you're here, though you can also just vote Bingle.

@Taly could you ever vote gob here or nah?
Only answer this after you answer why Bingle isn't scum though

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'll check in before I go to sleep but leaving my vote on Bingle

Don't change votes unless there's a consensus of 6-7 people.

[Sleepy Dragon]

gob just hop on Bingle we need a lim thanks

[Sleepy Dragon]

I think sleepy dragon wants either CCS or Bingle tho iirc

Or gob but not happening it seems

[Sleepy Dragon]

Bingle you should probably claim when you are here

[Sleepy Dragon]

K I am going to sleep now so I'm counting on you guys not to fuck this up

[Sleepy Dragon]

So several things.

1. PLEASE DO NOT VOTE BEFORE WE FINISH MASSCLAIM. This is basically ELo but with 2 misvotes required for a quickhammer instead of one, though scum will still win all the same.

Drew, for the love of god please unvote. You are literally putting a townie 1 vote away from a miselim in ELO.

2. Pay attention closely:

I am a PR. I have a HARD GUILTY.

I am NOT going to fullclaim until all other PR claims have fullclaimed because I don't trust any of them, BUT I can ASSURE you that you will see evidence for my claim both from Day 1 and from Day 2. Also I am going to lock myself in and say that my guilty is on one of Taly/Snivy (and since Titus is currently the only person I trust, she gets to decide if I need to lock myself into one of them).

[Sleepy Dragon]

Actually Drew can claim after me, so he can believe my role. Chell and Snivy specifically should claim before me.

[Sleepy Dragon]

@Snivy time to claim PR/not PR.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys, it's Snivy's turn to claim.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I am going back to sleep btw, be back on a few hours.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Chell - PR?
Drew
Taly - VT
Titus - VT
Snivy
gob - PR
Naerys - Complex Mailman
SD - PR + guilty

Snivy is next, then Chell, then Drew. This is claiming PR/not PR, we're NOT claiming roles yet as Bingle said.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I still think play wise SD is town but I really don’t want to lose this game so i just dont want to rush this

This is a sensible thought but I'm pretty sure it's something scum!Chell would say anyway so *shrug*



Anyway, considering that both me and Bingle have/had Titus as top town read and considering everybody else is kinda scunread by a bunch of people, Titus gets treated as IC this day phase and she chooses the full claim order.

Yes I know Bingle already laid something down but I know two things which Bingle doesn't:
1. I am town
2. I have a PR and a guilty, and like what Chell has been saying, I think my role could potentially expose fake claims.
Also, I pretty much locked myself into a very specific set of possibilities (and once you see my Day 1 and 2 evidence, you'll realize that I have, in fact, had this role all along).

So therefore I suggest that Chell and Snivy go before me.

I don't really care when gob goes but probably shouldn't be last because Drew should go last (I'm pretty sure I know what's Drew's role btw).

K bye I disappear for about an hour cya.

[Sleepy Dragon]

To show I'm okay with you saying it? IDK

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm definitely not SURE

I think I might know it based on your reaction to my claim, that's all

@gob can you confirm that you are a VT and that you are not going to change this claim later?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Bweh gob's fakeclaim is making my head spin

I think I am going to lie in bed for a while and come back to this game later

[Sleepy Dragon]

Its not that confusing. I claimed PR out of order to pressure Maf

Again, please confirm you are a VT


Also smh I went to sleep and woke up and the only person posting is bianco

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also I didn't mean that your action was confusing. I started to build a solve based on all the claims, then you changed yours. Obviously that would male me confused and have to look at my solve again.

[Sleepy Dragon]

No need to lock in.

Everyone should comment on if they think your guilty is on Taly or CCS without reason.

VT here.

I obviously think Taly.

Hi Titus


What should be the massclaim order?

[Sleepy Dragon]

How am I bossing you?

I am just asking you to like, properly claim.

You realize this is MELO and we're massclaiming?

And idk what ad hominem has to do with me asking you to properly claim

[Sleepy Dragon]

FMPOV:

I am town

I have a PR

There's a 50% chance I have a guilty on you and 50% I just think you are scum anyway.

Therefore, I would prefer to have you claim before me so I could potentially catch you in a lie.

Pretty simple.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also idk about all of you but I personally would really like gob to drop the shenanigans because what he is doing is anti town in the extreme

Like I was TRing gob for the unprompted PR claim but I see no town motivation in claiming and retracting like this, and then implying he might be a PR anyway. This is basically allowing him to adjust his claim based on other claims with 0 consequences.

[Sleepy Dragon]

FMPOV:

I am town

I have a PR

There's a 50% chance I have a guilty on you and 50% I just think you are scum anyway.

Therefore, I would prefer to have you claim before me so I could potentially catch you in a lie.

Pretty simple.

you talking to me? of course im VT if im not PR what else could i be lol

i dont get this 50% stuff. How can you have a 50% guilty?


I am not gonna listen to you sleepy, and nobody else should either. You are either mafia or bad town here like that person who got limmed yesterday said.

No I was talking to Snivy

[Sleepy Dragon]

I am not gonna listen to you sleepy, and nobody else should either. You are either mafia or bad town here like that person who got limmed yesterday said.

whether or not my reads are bad this game (and I am willing to concede the point that yesterday my reads were very possibly pretty bad, though I don't know for sure since I don't know the full scum team yet), this has NO BEARING on the fact that I have a hard guilty.

Can you PLEASE stop throwing random pointless discredits? If you think I am scum, say it and scum case me. Calling me "bad town" is not going to lead us ANYWHERE.

[Sleepy Dragon]

okay whatever

gob is probably town isn't he

All I want is for Snivy to claim first, it's not that hard

but I can claim first if everybody thinks I have to

I already fucked up this game twice because I was taking the complicated route, might as well take the simple route today and see where it leads.

[Sleepy Dragon]

My guilty is on Taly

[Sleepy Dragon]

I think Snivy is mafia and I wanted to see how he claimed based on thinking I have a guilty on him

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also the fact that Taly has literally not posted anything today strongly points to the fact that she might know I have a guilty on her.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also the fact that Taly has literally not posted anything today strongly points to the fact that she might know I have a guilty on her.

This

might

be vindicating for Snivy actually.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I need someone to talk to

[Sleepy Dragon]

Should I just fullclaim?

[Sleepy Dragon]

n1 was kill

Wait what

Does babysitter kill if it is killed?

[Sleepy Dragon]

I am an Even Night Neapolitan. I got a "not a VT" on Taly, despite them claiming VT

twice

The reason I wanted Snivy to claim yesterday was because, like Drew, I felt Snivy was the lynchpin, and I wanted to investigate him. However, investigating a PR as a neapolitan is useless, so I wanted to make sure Snivy was a VT first. If you notice, I explicitly said I wanted Snivy to claim, NOT that I want to lim him:

My mail target was Kitty.

Sure it was.
VOTE: Naerys

is there any reason for this vote

Snivy I know you are online, can you please post here and townspew yourself? It'd be awesome if you do something really crazy that only town!CCS would do, like fullclaiming your role right now because it's an awesome idea and you trust

in the heart of the cards

in the Dragon. But that's just an example, feel free to do anything else that would spew you town.

ahem

im town

I believe you. Do you like

TV

?

Sorry, I thought my VLA would end today but ti appears it won't.

I would like Snivy to claim.

Chell, I know this might be unfair since you ARE playing on an alt, but I am really tempted to say you might be scum due to burden of proficiency. How come you're saying you want to sheep me after your talk about how your playstyle is focused on finding and killing scum?

Also Naerys + Chell, can you E-1 Snivy with me so we get his claim? This would be immensely useful, thank you.

VOTE: Snivy

Snivy can you just claim so I know my suspicion is right and I don't have to push you

Okay here's the thing

I feel like I'm missing ONE bit of information to be able to properly sort the PoE.

It could be one person obvtowning / playing outside of scumrange (which none of you are doing and I'm still quite annoyed at), or it could be a person obvscumming (which isn't happening except for gob and nobody except Chell wants to push him), or it could be a claim. So I just want a claim thanks.

The thing with why I wasn't pushing Khaos despite being sus of him (which Titus was very justly enraged about), was that I though if Khaos WAS town then limming them would be entirely pointless, but if they were town I could at least clear them with an investigation (since they claim VT).

Also this post:

actually I looked at an ISO (not saying whose) and suddenly I feel a lot better about killing Khaos

VOTE: Khaos

Cele you are IC but your steer to CCS over Khaos is just so fucking bad I want to vote you

Can you vote Khaos again?

Was after I read Bingle's ISO and I realized Bingle can't be a PR because he said Naerys

might

be mechanically conftown due to her role, and I think there's exactly 0% chance TPR!Bingle would say that. So at that point I thought Bingle was a better investigate than Khaos and was okay with limming Khaos. I am not actually sure what happened after this that changed my mind, lol.

[Sleepy Dragon]

popcorn Chell or whatever

[Sleepy Dragon]

Okay why did you suspect Kitty?

[Sleepy Dragon]

im not sure if id rather you be scum here or the person I've been defending the whole game

it is what it is

lol

I'm not scum but considering both you and gob might be town then it's very possible I've also been defending scum whole game

So I get what you mean

pedit: okay gotcha

[Sleepy Dragon]

VOTE: Khaos

what makes you think this is a good vote?

i can understand why you wanted to vote organized khaos earlier but why 15 hours from deadline?

I really wish this is not partnered, lol.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I am so annoyed that Day 1 I was so close to getting Khaos limmed and then the last second I let Gamma steer it to Elements

I am also annoyed that on Day 2 we could lim Khaos and then

I

steered it to Bingle

Pedit: I feel Titus's frustration at Khaos not being limmed was too real to be scum, but actually I should probably re-read her progression on that slot, because I don't actually know why she was scumreading him Day 2. I'll do that after massclaim is over probably.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also Naerys do you have your own opinion on why gob/Snivy are town or are you just sheeping me?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Are we waiting for Chell or should I just claim?

Idk

Like it would probably be optimal for Chell to claim first but we kinda fucked up claiming optimally so you might as well

[Sleepy Dragon]

Then wtf was that vote and "all will be made clear" for?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Fair

Do you believe my claim?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Mmmm yeeting Bingle was probably a bigger mistake than I realized

I have like 0 confidence on how likely an inspector is to exist in this setup

[Sleepy Dragon]

Well let's see what Chell claims huh

[Sleepy Dragon]

Drew, assuming you are town, and looking at the roles claimed, how likely do you figure it is that the town is something like 5 VTs, an inspector, a 2-shot follower, an IC, a babysitter and a Complex Mailman, from a balance point of view?

Because I think it's objectively VERY unlikely.

[Sleepy Dragon]

3.02

Votecount 3.02

Taly (1): Chell

Not Voting (7): Taly, Titus, camelCasedSnivy, gob, Naerys, Sleepy Dragon, Doctor Drew

With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an execution or 4 to secure a no-execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-12-10 22:05:16).

Oops I forgot I wasn't voting Taly

VOTE: Chaos Toucan

[Sleepy Dragon]

I am going to assume Taly isn't talking because he doesn't want to spew anything

[Sleepy Dragon]

Would been weird to claim as scum, amirite?

Also sure, but that's WIFOM

Dannflor's claim in Mafia Have A Cop was weird and he was a scum nonetheless.

[Sleepy Dragon]

did you crumb neap anywhere sleepy

I did not crumb but I never crumb my role (this is not a trust tell, I'm just saying it)

The posts I quoted where I asked Snivy to claim and specifically asked him if he was a VT are the evidence I have

[Sleepy Dragon]

What's up evens, stevens, and

ice cream

heathens?

VOTE: Elements

This is a somewhat serious vote

i think this indicates that SD is *not* lying

I swear if the scum team is you+dragon i am gonna jump from a cliff

Naerys stop swearing and start voting scum

[Sleepy Dragon]

What's up evens, stevens, and

ice cream

heathens?

VOTE: Elements

This is a somewhat serious vote

i think this indicates that SD is *not* lying

Wow thanks chell

Also thanks OWER for crumbing my role

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys stop swearing and start voting scum

One day you will learn that being pocketed by town!Dragon is not a bad thing for you.

[Sleepy Dragon]

could you explain the crumb to me

Neapolitan is a type of ice cream

so it's basically an ice cream cop

which finds out if people are

vanilla

townies

[Sleepy Dragon]

neapolitan is a type of ice cream

Snivy please vote Taly so that Naerys and Titus, my scum partners, can quickhammer him already

[Sleepy Dragon]

Chell-odd night watcher
Snivy-2-shot follower
gob-vt
me-complex mailman
drew:Town Inspector
dragon:Even Night Neapolitan
Taly:?
Titus:vt

Are you real? Taly claimed VT.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Pre Edit: If you are gonna call me scum, then just call me scum.....don't beat around the bush here

Nah I'm not calling you scum, I'm saying that it's WIFOM to say "well it wouldn't make sense for scum to claim my role"

[Sleepy Dragon]

ok sorry

[Sleepy Dragon]

Rn i am going through some serious trust issues towards dragon and chell

Explain.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys where was your OWER scumread until now then? I thought you were mostly TRing my slot Day 1&2.

Also my interaction with Chell is (presumably) just two townies TRing each other and working together. Please don't tell me you've never seen that happen.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I know

Just think back to 244 and compare my play there with this game

then compare my play in Fruit Mafia to this game

Then you don't have to panic.

EZ game.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I know

Just think back to 244 and compare my play there with this game

then compare my play in Fruit Mafia to this game

Then you don't have to panic.

EZ game.

Hu?

Trying to suss out your main, but between Mafia Has a Cop, Fruit Mafia, and 244.....it doesn't add up lol

Drew

We already had the conversation on who my main is

Also like, am I the only person on this site (aside from usesPython) that reads games he is not a part of?

[Sleepy Dragon]

So are we waiting for scum to be replaced, for what reason exactly? So they can either lurk or try to fake association with town?

[Sleepy Dragon]

I promise to not shit on what you say

[Sleepy Dragon]

I hope things better soon for you, Taly.

[Sleepy Dragon]

get better*

[Sleepy Dragon]

It honestly seems unbelievable to me, but idk. It's possible SD is bussing but it just doesn't make sense to me why SD would check Taly.

Maybe because Taly was the only claimed VT? Maybe because Bingle, my other option, died? Maybe because Snivy, my other other option, softed PR?

[Sleepy Dragon]

what is gob doing

probably openwolfing but possibly just being terrible town

I think we can all agree that Chell should not watch gob tonight.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'll show my work like it's school. This is what I'm working with and why I made the decisions I made. However if I went by purely gut I would go Titus here.

I'm waiting.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Doctor Drew, NewPerson/Taly/Khaos, Titus, Sleepy Dragon

This four contains scum, for sure.

I think it's between Titus and Sleepy. The fact Sleepy hasn't been gunning for Titus makes me think its both of them, frankly.

VOTE: Titus

I am actually also okay with limming the Taly slot, just because I also think that slot/Drew also most likely contains a wolf.

That is actually better to lim in, realistically. It's possible all maf were on Bingle's wagon, but I doubt it.

VOTE: Drew

But I seriously feel like Titus is mafia here. She hasn't really been progressing the game forward at all, which I think is more like her wolf game. She's been more in the background this game than any other game I've played with her before. Can't shake the feeling she's mafia basically.

I think Sleepy looks really bad, especially with what Bingle said, but I sorta idk feel like he's town still lol.

Okay I think I misread this. Are you saying you think all three scum are in sleepy/Taly/Titus/Drew?

[Sleepy Dragon]

I kinda get why you scumread Titus, but if you think Taly is likely to flip scum and I have a guilty there, why are you voting Drew then?

[Sleepy Dragon]

= Taly / Drew = 50/50 (both were conveniently on the Element's wag day 1). Has 1-2 mafia.
= Sleepy Dragon, Snivy, Naerys, Chell, Titus = 1-3 mafia.

I am NOT going to say everything you just said is bullshit just because of this, but I hope you do see the math doesn't check out. I assume you mean the second list has 1-2 maf?

[Sleepy Dragon]

= Taly / Drew = 50/50 (both were conveniently on the Element's wag day 1). Has 1-2 mafia.
= Sleepy Dragon, Snivy, Naerys, Chell, Titus = 1-3 mafia.

I am NOT going to say everything you just said is bullshit just because of this, but I hope you do see the math doesn't check out. I assume you mean the second list has 1-2 maf?

Well pointed out. Do you think gob could be a scum? Or is this town!gob thing

Why is that scum indicative for gob? Serious question

While I am 90% sure Sleepy is town, I feel like no lim is still the best answer. Let a bullet decide who is right. It's melo not elo.

The only thing a no-elimination achieves right now is losing either you or a PR. How does that help anyone?

[Sleepy Dragon]

I think no eliminating TOMORROW might have some merit. Today we should vote Taly, the person you pushed to kill all of yesterday.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I kinda hate this game state tbh

I have townread every living slot except Taly at one point in the game. And every time I try to say "yeah this slot ia probably town and that one is probably scum", I immediately go "but why? Hasn't the other slot also done townie things"

And then I don't know what to do

So I really really really need someone to die

Actually maybe Titus is right, I don't think scum just kills me tonight if we no elim because that condemns Taly slot, and the kill should tell us SOMETHING about SOMEONE.

OTOH, blergh. Scum might kill my best townread and then I would be REALLY lost.

[Sleepy Dragon]

gob can you just vote Taly already? Like worst thing that happens is my scumbuddies quickhammer, but for real bro, that is such a small downside for not having to wait forever.

[Sleepy Dragon]

like everyone is capable of making townie looking posts if they simply post enough times, you have to have a higher threshold for what you base a read off of

I know

That was an oversimplified thought process I posted

What I meant was "there are a good reasons for them to be town"

[Sleepy Dragon]

@gob - my role only tells me if someone is a VT or not. If someone is a claimed PR, there's no point investigating them.

@Titus - am even night.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Town just check in.

Hi I'm town

[Sleepy Dragon]

But the claim seems REALLY hard to believe, especially because... it's weak as a shrimp. Like EVEN night VT
NOT EVEN ALIGNMENT cop?? (Also, even if that was the case, wouldnt Snivy for instance be a blocker? Idk how this setup works so apologies if this is wrong).

I KNOW

I HAD THE SAME THOUGHT

I was like "wtf is this role, I really hope we have a gunsmith"

Then Drew claimed a guilty on me, I thought he was a gunsmith. Then he calimed Inspector which is wtf.

So because my role is so weak, I tend to believe at least one of Snivy/Chell is telling the truth. Not sure if both have to be telling the truth balance wise, though.

[Sleepy Dragon]

then vote Titus as a sign of alliance i guess

Why? So scum can quickhammer?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also why exactly are you questioning my role but not Drew's role or Naerys' role? They are also laughably bad.

[Sleepy Dragon]

is it just me or has gob become incredibly obv town lol

Not just you

My current solve is probably Taly/Snivy/Drew but I'm 90% sure I'm wrong.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Okay not 90%

I just have a feeling I'm wrong

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'll be elated if my Day 1 semi-town core of 8 peope 7 of which are town, proves to be correct

As a reminder, I said that out of these 8, 7 are town:
Titus, Elements, SD, Naerys, Celeb, Chell, Snivy, Gamma (gob)

[Sleepy Dragon]

Either im gettin pocketed or sleep and chell are town.

Agreed here.

My biggest worry about your slot is Gamma flipping. I hope the gob world gets resolved in the night so I don't have to worry but with gob fosing me (which I don't get), I can't be sure.

It's my biggest worry as well

[Sleepy Dragon]

Titus, my problem with no elimming is I just don't think I've ever seen town win a 7p ELo.

[Sleepy Dragon]

After we lim Taly then he will be confirmed scum to all of you, not just me, so people can start making association-based cases.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Yeah well we basically are there. It appears, at least passively, people agree with no lim by voting vanity wagons. The only way anyone but you or Taly slot gets limmed is if scum vote it.

true. I am not adovcating for limming anyone except me or Taly though.

also, FFS I almost greened this text

[Sleepy Dragon]

@Mod VLA until Friday

Acknowledged

[Sleepy Dragon]

That's kinda what I said we should do two days ago :/

Not that I'm complaining about you doing it.

[Sleepy Dragon]

VOTE: taly

or we can just get this over with and save the mod from replacing the slot we were always going to eliminate anyway

At this point, I get it. There's a lot of frustration developing and it might be better to take a suboptimal action for morale.

Honestly I'd do it just so I can take a break from hearing gob saying I'm town fake claiming a guilty.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I sort of do with how many people are SRing Taly. Frankly. I believe scum has complete control of the games convo.

Taly could he scum though, but I want to win. And it just doenst feel like the winning play

So you believe that OWER didnt crumb neapolitan PR and Dragon is lying?

I literally have no clue, frankly.

Did you see the crumb Chell found?

[Sleepy Dragon]

I sort of do with how many people are SRing Taly. Frankly. I believe scum has complete control of the games convo.

Taly could he scum though, but I want to win. And it just doenst feel like the winning play

This is frankly illogical. Nobody is SRing Taly. I have a fucking guilty on them and people choose to believe me because there's evidence of my claim being true. It's only natural people will express willingness to vote there.

If anything the amount of stalling points to them being scum. I don't think there would be so much stalling in a town!Taly world.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm not sure I follow

[Sleepy Dragon]

Okay two things


One: Drew calling what gob said "TMI" is fucking stupid. Drew has played enough mini normals to know that there are 3 scum, period. If there were 4 scum the game would be over already. And ain't no way NRG approves a 2-scum 13er with at least 2 useful TPRs and an IC on top. This feels like a weird gotcha from Drew.



Two: I don't know if gob is just THAT ignorant or if he's flailing scum desperately trying to save Khaos/Taly/AK slot, but saying that that slot could be town because of something he hasn't accounted for is stupid, if he thinks I'm town. Even if I was town lying about my guilty, or of Taly was a TPR who fakeclaimed vanilla, btoh of which are beyond stupid, for a town!Taly-and-SD world to exist would mean that all of Drew, Chell, and Naerys are scum (otherwise the last scum would have hammered for the win), which is not even what gob is pushing (he said it's Taly/Snivy/Drew/Naerys/Titus and has been mainly pushing Titus).

[Sleepy Dragon]

Anyway, I would like to do some analysis of Taly/Khaos associations this day phase, but as you may have noticed I am extremely VLA. So I will probably do that tomorrow.

Meanwhile, UNVOTE: AK

Just so there's no self hammer.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Wtf why are we voting no lim

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys please unvote

[Sleepy Dragon]

No limming is suicidal here, because unless you are certain gob is either town with god tier reads or scum, I can guarantee you he will lolvote a completely random person tomorrow with a completely random reason and then scum will just quickhammer and it's GG.

So please, can we not?

And anyone quickhammering no lim should be speedlimmed tomorrow.

[Sleepy Dragon]

And Naerys, AK is fucking conf scum to you because he wasn't hammered.

[Sleepy Dragon]

SD, you're in the position where you know AK is scum. Gob is indeed posting like scum. I see him planning a 1 v 1 with me from miles away. A no lim eliminates the universe where you and AK are both scum. It's mathematically similar to limming AK today and no limming tmo.

How does it eliminate the universe where I'm scum with AK? Scum doesn't kill me in a world where we no lim.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm going to do what I said I'd do yesterday - namely, read some ISOs and interactions. Then I am going to vote AK and I really hope that Titus and Naerys do a cool thing and vote confirmed scum with me.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Chell how does you dying make it clearer who's scum?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Chell how does you dying make it clearer who's scum?

I think if I died that would essentially clear you as town

Then that means you think I'm town always in a town!you world, which means you should be voting AK q-q

I'm so fkin frustrated by this no lim thing. It just gives scum more power to control the day phase.

[Sleepy Dragon]

yes, i am very sold on you being town and AK being scum. it would take a lot for me to rethink that, but I also feel like giving our PRs more chances to work + lowering the odds of a miselim before elimlo is probably just mechanically correct??

You are the only PR that can get any useful result tonight, and u dead tonight

[Sleepy Dragon]

i wish bingle was here lol

I agree (fuck me for that thing)

[Sleepy Dragon]

BTW Drew, why did you use your role on Celeb????

[Sleepy Dragon]

I did some reading, I think gob and Naerys are both town. The "too good to be true" solve is it's just Snivy/Drew, but I'm not even remotely confident it's the real solve. I am definitely not betting on it, lol. But if absolutely nothing changes I kinda want to do one of them tomorrow (assuming we lim AK today).

[Sleepy Dragon]

VOTE: Khaos/Taly/Knott

[Sleepy Dragon]

GG EZ

[Sleepy Dragon]

Is it?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys, as my scum partner you should know the answer to that question.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Anyway can we all agree that Naerys is town? And that she is in fact the towniest person here, even townier than Titus (who's pretty fcuking towny) and gob?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Naerys, as my scum partner you should know the answer to that question.

You are evil

How am I evil? I am merely doing my job, which is pocketing you.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Like I might die tonight (I pray I won't because this game is fun), so if I die just remember that my last words were "Naerys is town thanks bye"

[Sleepy Dragon]

wait so why are we no limming exactly?

Eliminate worlds. Force scum to move.

Why didn't you vote Taly/AK/Khaos?

you know why i didn't vote khaos

some people wanted taly to redeem themselves (before guilty)

and after guilty i just haven't been as active

also no lim is a VERY risky move here, I'm almost inclined to scumread you for this

Why almost inclined? Who are you inclined to scumread?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Beat it, Naerys scum readers!

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also now I'm sad because I have zero confident town reads left

[Sleepy Dragon]

VOTE: Bingle

I have absolutely no faith that this town pulls this off, and if SD is town he's probably the worst thing that happened to this game, including KL and Eiralox fighting for 60 pages.

Rude.

I think you at least got to give me credit for TRing all three of your biggest scumreads who then flipped town.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm thinking Chell and SD are town. However I'm going to express doubt on SD for *reasons*.

There had to be a bus at EoD. But no lim is best.

Mathematically there is 100% a bus.

Why are you doubting me and not Chell?

[Sleepy Dragon]

Wtf how did that emoji get there

[Sleepy Dragon]

Can we hurry and no eliminate? I have zero townreads. Since no 1 v 1, no elimination is in order.

Why hurry though?

[Sleepy Dragon]

This is a weird progression from saying me and Chell are town.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I think scum is exactly Drew + one of Snivy/Chell

[Sleepy Dragon]

However I am not confident enough to vote yet

[Sleepy Dragon]

I definitely want to hear everyone's solves.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Also Titus what you are doing is so anti town it hurts

You are saying you want me to be nightkilled because you can't sort me and at the same breath angling for a no lim which will 100% not result in me being nightkilled.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Like you JUST said we shouldn't tell scum who they should and shouldn't kill, and then you spell it out for them that you'd be down to vote me if I'm not nightkilled. It doesn't get more anti town than that.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I think I just talked myself into Titus being scum lol

[Sleepy Dragon]

FUCK

[Sleepy Dragon]

I hate this game

I hate every single towny not wanting to work with me to lim scum Day 1

I hate every single towny not wanting to obvtown Day 2

Fuck this game

[Sleepy Dragon]

Like you JUST said we shouldn't tell scum who they should and shouldn't kill, and then you spell it out for them that you'd be down to vote me if I'm not nightkilled. It doesn't get more anti town than that.

Yes, but perhaps I'm lying. It's shrodinger's read.

This emoji

Doesn't even begin to describe what I am feeling now

[Sleepy Dragon]

VOTE: nolim

Please kill me scum

[Sleepy Dragon]

Why did they have to kill Naerys

Literally anyone but Naerys I would be happy to see dying

[Sleepy Dragon]

UNVOTE:

[Sleepy Dragon]

I need to take a break

[Sleepy Dragon]

Jesus christ

I did say I need a break, no need to comment so much about my reaction

Anyway I'm sorry for my outburst Titus

VOTE: No Lim

[Sleepy Dragon]

I'm just kinda salty here

[Sleepy Dragon]

But I'm done being salty

[Sleepy Dragon]

*absolutely-dislodged-moon

Are you saying that this is the message you got from Naerys?

[Sleepy Dragon]

But I'm done being salty

Good night.

[Sleepy Dragon]

We can, but we should let the PRs report their investigation results.

[Sleepy Dragon]

I hate this game

I hate every single towny not wanting to work with me to lim scum Day 1

I hate every single towny not wanting to obvtown Day 2

Fuck this game

at a certain point if you can't find a single person as town or can't cooperate to eliminate scum (guess what I wanted to eliminate organizekhaos at EoD1 not fucking elements) then the fault lies with you

I got Khaos to E-1 twice on Day 1. Then fucking people moved to Elements and trolling and voting and unvoting.
I really don't think it's my fault unless you expect me to be like a mega cold and calculated player which can command other people who seem to be bent on not cooperating (i.e. Eiralox and Gamma) and make them do my bidding.

[Sleepy Dragon]

Anyway Drew should also claim result unless he's scum and forgot that he needs to invent results.

Pedit: speak of the devil

[Sleepy Dragon]

Considering I'm dying tonight, I will say that I thought this over and gob is probably just scum.

K bye

[Sleepy Dragon]

Very well done to Snivy, Chell, AND Khaos - Snivy and Khaos were voted so many times on Days 1 and 2 and I am quite impressed with how you managed to avoid having a memeber of the team be limmed until Day 3 (and even then it required a bus from Chell in order to go through).

[Sleepy Dragon]

If talking about my play is allowed, I have to say I'm kinda mad at myself, because I am the one who was trying to vote out Snivy and Khaos for most of Day 1 and I let myself get sidetracked way too easily.

I feel like my Day 1 reads were pretty good before the EoD shenanigans (I was townlocking Titus, Gamma, Naerys and Elements, and while I misread Bingle and Chell, I wasn't locktowning Chell nor lockscumming Bingle), and my biggest mistake was not sticking to those reads and fighting until Khaos got limmed. Then on Day 2 I played too passively expecting whoever was town to town it up by themself, instead of getting in people's faces and poking them until they produced real AI content.

My take away is to play more actively in sorting other players, and not give up on saving obvtown / limming obvscum players just because it's easier to "get a lim" if I give in and vote the obvtown.

[Sleepy Dragon]

What a clown show of a game. But kinda entertaining to watch from the dead chat. G(?)G.

Sorry yall for defending Khaos so hard.

Apology NOT accepted! :p