Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[cw357]

@2above admissison of guilt

[cw357]

dragon, hu tao = powerwolf

[DragonEater70]

Yes, we are

Town aligned powerwolf

[ssbm_Kyouko]

We need to go somewhat decently higher profile today, so nobody in the low content slots, unfortunately.

Unless some major connections today happen with them, but i don’t think Geraint, Joyboy, or Purple are the types to get in the middle of things like that anyways.

geraint is definitely not
UNVOTE:

I like some of what I'm seeing from Dragon and several days away from the game makes it feel fresh

[Purplemango]

VOTE: cw357
I'm not changing this vote rest of d2, you all can either wise up and vote hu tao or dragon or I'll get elimed, in which case doesn't make a difference what I vote

Why would it not make a difference? It's still a vote, it's a little weird to me that you're like
"Okay, it won't change much, but be smart and vote for someone else!"

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I do see reason for scum wanting a CW alive to get vigged, so that is a bit of a town reasoning. but 1 dead is still 1 dead, and fading gets rid of that too. i dont see Pav as someone thinking about that kind of stuff.

and thats really my defense for Pav.

I think there's an agenda, but idk if it's a scum agenda with them.

This is a really good observation but really poorly reasoned? Obviously there are 3 scum so this only makes sense if nobody else on scum!Pav's team makes this connection

[Hu Tao]

i just generally feel Pav's got a sense of 'if i gotta die, i gotta die, but im gonna fight trying' in a townie way, and not a scummy way.

I also saw that and it definitely gave me pause, but I feel this is more posturing about fighting than actually fighting? Like if he really had this attitude I'd expect him to push me / Hu Tao more and make sure that the "right" lim/kill happens after he dies, but instead he's like "oh okay cool you wanna kill me today? I believe in you town".

It's fake.

Thing is. Pav doesn't need to push us. Cw is doing it for him. So that's why it seems he has no need to fight it

You're saying this from a scum!Pav / town!cw perpective?

Yes

[Hu Tao]

Hu Tao, can you talk about the PV/CW - Hu Tao/DragonEater dynamics to me? What are your thoughts on the 4 of you, not necessarily your read, but your thoughts on the 2 v 2 as a general thing.

I think that cw is probably town but will vote wrong tomorrow so he needs to go. Still a small chance he flips scum so better now then later. Pav seems to be the one who does soft defenses of cw so I think he could be the scum that wants cw alive for tomorrow.

In terms of Dragon and me. Could dragon ve pocketing me? Idk, I don't think so. Last time I played with dragon scum he was obvious and I called it day 1. I don't see that here. I think it's weird cw tries to push that me and dragon are a pair and his read seems very surface level which is why I think there is a chance cw flips scum.

I'm gonna locktown Hu Tao

So that makes 4 I'm never voting - Purple, Flavor, Hu Tao and myself.

Why is purple town?

[DragonEater70]

I know Purple, I know Purple's meta, Purple ain't scum here

[Hu Tao]

Since we have a cop and vig. I'm guessing scum have 2 strong pr as well. So it's possible there is a scum that is being bussed by their teammates.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Hu Tao, can you talk about the PV/CW - Hu Tao/DragonEater dynamics to me? What are your thoughts on the 4 of you, not necessarily your read, but your thoughts on the 2 v 2 as a general thing.

I think that cw is probably town but will vote wrong tomorrow so he needs to go. Still a small chance he flips scum so better now then later. Pav seems to be the one who does soft defenses of cw so I think he could be the scum that wants cw alive for tomorrow.

In terms of Dragon and me. Could dragon ve pocketing me? Idk, I don't think so. Last time I played with dragon scum he was obvious and I called it day 1. I don't see that here. I think it's weird cw tries to push that me and dragon are a pair and his read seems very surface level which is why I think there is a chance cw flips scum.

I'm gonna locktown Hu Tao

So that makes 4 I'm never voting - Purple, Flavor, Hu Tao and myself.

Can you explain why Hu Tao is town? I agree with the points I'm reading from cw against Hu Tao, but I have been severely tunneled in this game up until today. Specifically you mentioned it looks like cw is opening ISOs and ignoring context, and maybe because I've been tunneled I'm missing the fact that context is missing?

I feel in isolation and without fact-checking them that the cw posts about scum!HT make sense. Flavor being conftown and Laplacian flipping town really turns this game upside down for me. I also noticed about Thomith a few days ago when looking at his ISO that from the way he talked about Hu Tao I'm pretty sure he was banking on investigating them. I haven't looked for their meta together yet but it might be HT had reason to believe that could happen if they've played together in games where Thomith was an investigative before

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Flavor

I know me and Hu Tao are powerwolfing right now with how we hard TR each other and push the same people, but you gotta trust in the power of the green powerwolf team.

So like, don't shoot us, please and thank you

Pedit: yay Kyouko is back

Kyouko how much have you read of toDay?

I've read most of it in pieces on mobile, and I think I missed halves of pages in some of my games by stopping my reading halfway through a page and resuming my reading later from first unread post

[DragonEater70]

Since we have a cop and vig. I'm guessing scum have 2 strong pr as well. So it's possible there is a scum that is being bussed by their teammates.

Who do you think is bussing / being bussed?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Since we have a cop and vig. I'm guessing scum have 2 strong pr as well. So it's possible there is a scum that is being bussed by their teammates.

idk if there have to be 2 strong PRs - probably they have one of a roleblocker, rolestopper, or jailkeeper, and maybe an investigative of their own like a tracker/watcher/voyeur or a rolecop. There's just no way to balance against the town power without giving scum some way to block it

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I would agree though that if the strongest PR that has interaction with the town power comes under pressure, a goon will likely be sacrificed to save the scum PR

[Pavowski]

Ok Dragon, what would scum!Purple be doing here?

Self vote is disgusting, hard to read that as towny right here

Is CW even close to getting yeeted right now? Lot of people talking about voting there but how many are actually there? Such a weird thing to do

If scum you're throwing, boo, hiss
If town you should make it as hard for scum as possible, there's like no chance you get limmed by town alone

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I probably need to reread everything or take notes considering different alignment combinations for different players

[HighPrincessErinys]

Why is CW so hard to get?

Because scum and town both are defending. This means scum don’t want CW faded.

It implies that CW is scum, or town who is expected to help scum win.

I think that flip is best here.

Yeah!! This one still really wants cw here even if it thinks he's much more likely to be town than scum because it's super clear that he is NOT going to be even REMOTELY helpful to town when shit hits the fan. It's just moved to Pav because it seems like its literally just the two of us who are willing to commit to cw.

[HighPrincessErinys]

cases with quotes are for scum or catchups.

:roll:

Convince me however you want. I know you know what I mean, and I know you know you are able to do it. I just want to be convinced before I vote there.

This one misses when you unconditionally sheeped FL

[DragonEater70]

Hu Tao, can you talk about the PV/CW - Hu Tao/DragonEater dynamics to me? What are your thoughts on the 4 of you, not necessarily your read, but your thoughts on the 2 v 2 as a general thing.

I think that cw is probably town but will vote wrong tomorrow so he needs to go. Still a small chance he flips scum so better now then later. Pav seems to be the one who does soft defenses of cw so I think he could be the scum that wants cw alive for tomorrow.

In terms of Dragon and me. Could dragon ve pocketing me? Idk, I don't think so. Last time I played with dragon scum he was obvious and I called it day 1. I don't see that here. I think it's weird cw tries to push that me and dragon are a pair and his read seems very surface level which is why I think there is a chance cw flips scum.

I'm gonna locktown Hu Tao

So that makes 4 I'm never voting - Purple, Flavor, Hu Tao and myself.

Can you explain why Hu Tao is town? I agree with the points I'm reading from cw against Hu Tao, but I have been severely tunneled in this game up until today. Specifically you mentioned it looks like cw is opening ISOs and ignoring context, and maybe because I've been tunneled I'm missing the fact that context is missing?

I feel in isolation and without fact-checking them that the cw posts about scum!HT make sense. Flavor being conftown and Laplacian flipping town really turns this game upside down for me. I also noticed about Thomith a few days ago when looking at his ISO that from the way he talked about Hu Tao I'm pretty sure he was banking on investigating them. I haven't looked for their meta together yet but it might be HT had reason to believe that could happen if they've played together in games where Thomith was an investigative before

I can't fully explain why she's town

I just feel she's working with me in a way that feels genuine and not like a pocket. Last time I played with scum Hu Tao, she was pocketing me hard, and although I had a TR on her, I was constantly paranoid she was pocketing me because the reads she had were too convenient. I don't have the same paranoia here.

The post I quoted doesn't feel in line with my experience of Hu Tao's scum game, either - there's too much genuine thought put into it compared to her scum game.

With cw, they are calling Hu Tao scum for tunneling, without considering the actual context of the tunneling and whether it could be a town tunnel. They decided a random post where Hu Tao asks me a(n admittedly pointless) question means Hu Tao is scum with me, but they are ignoring the bulk of Hu Tao's ISO which when read is full of town posts.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Okay after actually fully catching up now we actually have a cw wagon all of a sudden. Love this game!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kyouko feels a little too tunneled onto Lap, but idk if that’s a scum thing to be right now.

She could just be tunneled. I do agree if lap is town that scum is likely on the wagon already

is it out of their scum range to fake a tunnel as scum?

I've never seen her as scum, so that's why I was confused when I didn't see eye to eye for her for once. So maybe

Reading HT ISO now and I don't think I or anyone else addressed this, but yes I've faked tunnels as scum before. I don't think I had much success, but I don't tend to have much success as scum anyways. I vaguely remember faking a tunnel in a game where there were a lot of meme alts pretending to be JoJo's characters and this was the start of a streak of me getting instadunked by Koba every time I rolled scum - in the first game I managed to survive a Day phase or 2 before people followed him, and then he got a lot of credibility for being able to read me accurately and I just died in like all my scum games he was town in

[ssbm_Kyouko]

and I kinda want to say that was a game Pavowski was in, come to think of it. could be wrong, could be remembering another game from the same time period

[Pavowski]

My kingdom for a VC

I'm stepping away until at least tonight, thinking about the current state with the current posters, lovely as you all are, is getting me nothing but a headache

Friendly invitation for anybody with a post count below 60 to give a full reads list, or, y'know, just tell us you like peaches or something

[HighPrincessErinys]

HPE I maybe feel a little better about flipping, I'm a little sus of her recent change of heart on me (felt a little too easy if you ask me) and there has certainly been some opportunistic play there outside of that as well

You probably think it was a "little too easy" because this one wasn't exhaustively listing the things it didn't about your recent posts.

Anyway, VOTE: cw