Large Normal 246: Game Over

[TimmerRC]

I gave up ages ago but am willing to try to come back, I'm just trying to decide if its even possible.

I think everyone who is permanently fixated on the idea of voting me out is shady, which doesn't help because its probably omgus and the only person making sense to me is Hu Tao because they are reading my posts plainly and not getting swayed by noise.

[Random Nurse]

So maybe it's Timmer and Hu Tao?

Have to see what Timmer flips if/when that happens.

[TimmerRC]

Well that gives me my answer, thank you.

[Enchant]

I gave up ages ago but am willing to try to come back, I'm just trying to decide if its even possible.

I think everyone who is permanently fixated on the idea of voting me out is shady, which doesn't help because its probably omgus and the only person making sense to me is Hu Tao because they are reading my posts plainly and not getting swayed by noise.

Who are real mafia?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

I will be busy due partying (sort of). Not VLA i will be here, but kinda... Yeah.


My primal question to Guillotine is why bother to CC Roden, who was obviously evil, but not CC Hu Tao? It probably resolved somewhere, but it requires me to look answers up in all these pages.

With "oh i couldn't protect so sorry i already protected that rolecop N1" sounds not to convincing, and mafia (who lost roleblocker) having undeniable knowledge that they will successfully perform kill with alive doctor claim is like attempt to rush in guarded gate, while honking noses of guards. Successfully.

... Eh. Guilotine probably just mafia, who "CCed" Roden, i put it that.

That's actually a pretty good question, since Roden WAS obvscum and there WAS absolutely zero reason to claim when I had already CC'd him.

I could see Guillo scum maaaaybe.

Also Enchant is town.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

RN if you are not gonna target Dave, target one of the miller claims please.

I think trying to change the plan at the last second causes confusion and is scummy.

Yah? RN said he was gonna target Naerys and I said it is useless as she confirmed herself to me, I actually suggested he stayed on course by targeting Dave and if he was not gonna do it then to target the millers aka you or Kyouko. So?

I said I MIGHT, not that I WAS.

I did mention possibly targeting Naerys to instill some doubt into Scum.

I did target Hu Tao.

I'm not 100% convinced because there could have been interference by a Scum PR.

Ok then. So as long as we don't see a scum flip that reveals a role that could potentially influence your result, we must treat it as a clear.

VOTE: Guillotina

What? You got a result from your own very role and instead you wanna make judgements based on paranoia and mechanic speculation, no, we are not gonna do that.

Kill timmer please.

This (and all the other Guillo posts on that page) makes me think Guillo is town once again

Can we just lim Timmer?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

I'll take this as you didnt receive the message either - shooting happens last, so message would be sent, meaning he either forgot or he sent it to scum who decided not to say they got the message.

Scum are not multitasking by default, so if andres did not forget to send his message, and a kill happened, it means at most one scum was free to act.

Andres died which means he was not the target of an aliening from a backup alien/universal backup, which means whoever he tried to message is the one that got aliened, or he messaged scum that is not announcing. We know this was not dave or BQ2 because of the hood.

Most likely if there is an alien they would have targeted town!RN, going to check if andres indicated who he might target, my guess is the lack of a message points to one of {targeted scum, target was aliened}

[Broccoli Quest 2]

The lim today is Trimmer, thank you.

Why exactly are you so stuck on Timmer again?

He scum? Duh.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

I'll take this as you didnt receive the message either - shooting happens last, so message would be sent, meaning he either forgot or he sent it to scum who decided not to say they got the message.

Scum are not multitasking by default, so if andres did not forget to send his message, and a kill happened, it means at most one scum was free to act.

Andres died which means he was not the target of an aliening from a backup alien/universal backup, which means whoever he tried to message is the one that got aliened, or he messaged scum that is not announcing. We know this was not dave or BQ2 because of the hood.

Most likely if there is an alien they would have targeted town!RN, going to check if andres indicated who he might target, my guess is the lack of a message points to one of {targeted scum, target was aliened}

Why are you even assuming Alien? Could be roleblocker or rolestopper.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

Btw I would love to try to catch up and play and contribute, but the concept of why I'm thy lim target just makes there be no point. So just lim me, there's no point in me trying to catch up. I can't argue against nothing, you all know deep down that I'm town but you just don't seem to care.

Why are you defensive when earlier you asked to be limmed

If you actually are town and think you should contribute to finding scum, then BY JOLLY, go ahead and read the last 20-30 pages (don't have to read all game, that would be insane) and tell us who you think is scum.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

I'll take this as you didnt receive the message either - shooting happens last, so message would be sent, meaning he either forgot or he sent it to scum who decided not to say they got the message.

Scum are not multitasking by default, so if andres did not forget to send his message, and a kill happened, it means at most one scum was free to act.

Andres died which means he was not the target of an aliening from a backup alien/universal backup, which means whoever he tried to message is the one that got aliened, or he messaged scum that is not announcing. We know this was not dave or BQ2 because of the hood.

Most likely if there is an alien they would have targeted town!RN, going to check if andres indicated who he might target, my guess is the lack of a message points to one of {targeted scum, target was aliened}

Why are you even assuming Alien? Could be roleblocker or rolestopper.

I think alien, specifically a backup, combats town power nicely - it stops actions like rolecop and FN from either side, like alien targeting a Miller to stop them being cleared by an investigative. If they had a blocker/stopper, they would be able to interfere a lot every night from the get-go. A backup role reduces the stinginess of mafia's power, hence an Alien.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Swinginess*

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

[davesaz]

Additional mechanical things we know (provided you believe my results) are that Broccoli and Enchant are simple (vanilla town or goon) and Dunnstral is complex (not vanilla/goon).
It really would have been helpful if Andres had given his planned target, or at least a set of 2-3 possible message recipients, but no use complaining about it.

The Hu Tao clear depends on RN not being scum fakeclaiming that role (or town with a different role fakeclaiming which is something I can't completely ignore).

[Dunnstral]

If Andres didn't send mail because forgot, i choke from laugh.

He died. Unless the night order of operations is different here, communications happen after kills everywhere I play.

I'll take this as you didnt receive the message either - shooting happens last, so message would be sent, meaning he either forgot or he sent it to scum who decided not to say they got the message.

Scum are not multitasking by default, so if andres did not forget to send his message, and a kill happened, it means at most one scum was free to act.

Andres died which means he was not the target of an aliening from a backup alien/universal backup, which means whoever he tried to message is the one that got aliened, or he messaged scum that is not announcing. We know this was not dave or BQ2 because of the hood.

Most likely if there is an alien they would have targeted town!RN, going to check if andres indicated who he might target, my guess is the lack of a message points to one of {targeted scum, target was aliened}

I agree that Random Nurse was the likely alien target if mafia have a backup

[Dunnstral]

My struggle is this.

People are talking about shortlists of people to lim based on "mechanical clears". I don't know what that means. I don't know HOW to fight against that concept because I don't even know what it means.

People talk about how so n so played a certain way in a game in the past thus they are town, or scum, and it means nothing to me so I don't know how to use that.

People are blindly making plans on night actions with people who are almost certainly at least somewhere lying and fudging their results, but everyone seems ok to trust and plan, and that's bewildering to me.

I lost track of the game and these issues just crushed my ability to play, and now all of this mechanical stuff means I am getting limmed, so yes, I threw in the towel the other day. But I would be willing to try to participate now that I have time, but I have no idea what I can say that would fight against this idea of limming me. What can I say against it?

Well sorry if this game is confusing for you. If you have problems with the plans being proposed you should make it known.

[davesaz]

Kyouko wanting to focus on more obscure roles (traffic analyst, backup alien) bothers me, though straight UB bothers me less so if she's meaning backup who became alien I suppose that's fine.
RB, rolestop seem more plausible.

[Hu Tao]

My struggle is this.

People are talking about shortlists of people to lim based on "mechanical clears". I don't know what that means. I don't know HOW to fight against that concept because I don't even know what it means.

People talk about how so n so played a certain way in a game in the past thus they are town, or scum, and it means nothing to me so I don't know how to use that.

People are blindly making plans on night actions with people who are almost certainly at least somewhere lying and fudging their results, but everyone seems ok to trust and plan, and that's bewildering to me.

I lost track of the game and these issues just crushed my ability to play, and now all of this mechanical stuff means I am getting limmed, so yes, I threw in the towel the other day. But I would be willing to try to participate now that I have time, but I have no idea what I can say that would fight against this idea of limming me. What can I say against it?

This is 1000% town.

[Hu Tao]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

[Naerys]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

I hate what i have to write, but limming Timmer makes sense. He is clearly struggling, doesnt really know what to do. I kinda feel like it would be mercy for him to be eliminated and not having to suffer anymore. We can afford a mislim and for us its also better not keeping him here untill endgame.
Also he could be scum, i remember how Khaos acted so its not really that unlikely.

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

If I'm 100% honest, I don't have amazing reasons to think Timmer is scum. But I do have pretty good reasons for almost everyone else to be town so I am kind of at a loss here

Do you wanna wagon Dunn (or Kyo even) and see what happens?

[Broccoli Quest 2]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

I agree it's not a game for a newbie. I am not really sure why you signed up for it considering it's clearly tagged as mechanically complex.

Still, let me help you. Mechanical clear means that the mechanics of the game (i.e power roles) cleared a person. A person who is investigated inno by a cop is a mech clear. A person who is an un'cced PR in an open game with said PR is a mechanical clear.

No one in this game is actually a public mechanical clear, but Naerys (who claimed Friendly Neighbor on Guillotina) is a mechanical clear in the eyes of Guillotina, and since I think Guillotine is town then I also consider Naerys a mechanical clear. Hu Tao is a mechanical clear IF there is no roleblocker / rolestopper, due to how RN's role works (ssbm_Kyouko explained it earlier).

You seriously think this person is scum? Can we please try something else?

I hate what i have to write, but limming Timmer makes sense. He is clearly struggling, doesnt really know what to do. I kinda feel like it would be mercy for him to be eliminated and not having to suffer anymore. We can afford a mislim and for us its also better not keeping him here untill endgame.
Also he could be scum, i remember how Khaos acted so its not really that unlikely.

This is also a good point

You can't townread someone for making endless "I don't know how to play this game" posts. It's at best NAI. I know Timmer played well in his last town game (and he was also complaining there if I recall correctly), but based on how he's playing now he's not even going to try and solve. I already told him that if he's town he should read the game and gove reads.

[Naerys]

VOTE: Timmer

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: Guillotina

I think this roleclaim makes the least sense with the rest of the claims, and Enchant makes a very good point about him CCing Roden but not CCing Hu Tao

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Also how likely is it really that vanilla Hu Tao fakeclaims Guillo's exact modifiers? Complex Indecisive, minus the 2-shot? If I were in town!Guillo's shoes I would think Hu Tao's claim must be coming from an Informed role