Open 901 - Normal Idea Mafia Redux - Postgame

[Alianna]

3.02

Votecount 3.02

SirCakez (1): JacksonVirgo
JacksonVirgo (1): Jake The Wolfie
Save The Dragons (1): Black

Not Voting (6): Save The Dragons, lucca261, Argonauts, Skygazer, shaddowez, SirCakez

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-05 20:12:42).

[Black]

We can't let Alianna get #1000

50 posts away

We all need to come together and prevent this

[Black]

Look at her shiny new title

[JacksonVirgo]

I do

Ok. Why?

Mostly from their predecessor, who leaked entitlement like it was sweat and that was incredibly townie to me. Going back to the very early game and their interaction with me it didn't feel like scum at all and considering it was us "swinging" at each other that's pretty telling to me as usually in that circumstance just through inherent bias you get the feeling of scum when someone pushes against you or at least it does for me and I didn't get much of an ounce of scumminess from Clap while disagreeing entirely with what they were doing. It feels pretty cut and dry to me

Now that I'm writing this out, I'm now remembering Jake has asked me to claim like so much. Not just today,

@Jake

, what is in your head that makes you think a claim from me even remotely makes a difference in how you read me?

[JacksonVirgo]

The rest have shown some sense of towniness imo

Are you saying those four haven't at all?

[JacksonVirgo]

Anybody wanna spam this page to get to 1000 first?

[JacksonVirgo]

And the next

[Black]

I do

Ok. Why?

Mostly from their predecessor, who leaked entitlement like it was sweat and that was incredibly townie to me. Going back to the very early game and their interaction with me it didn't feel like scum at all and considering it was us "swinging" at each other that's pretty telling to me as usually in that circumstance just through inherent bias you get the feeling of scum when someone pushes against you or at least it does for me and I didn't get much of an ounce of scumminess from Clap while disagreeing entirely with what they were doing. It feels pretty cut and dry to me

Now that I'm writing this out, I'm now remembering Jake has asked me to claim like so much. Not just today,

@Jake

, what is in your head that makes you think a claim from me even remotely makes a difference in how you read me?

Can you point out what entitlement you saw?

The rest have shown some sense of towniness imo

Are you saying those four haven't at all?

After a quick skim through their ISOs I guess there is some townie posts in each of them. Not really StD's ISO but I saw a few in shaddow's, Sky's, and Cakez's

Maybe the rest of the list has felt more townie because they are more active and for the majority of the game I've been feeling like scum have been in the lurker crowd

[lucca261]

This isn't really game-indicative but like Clap was an alt from a ban-evading player who was faking being not that experienced, wasn't he?

Couldn't the entitlement come from that?

[Jake The Wolfie]

or did you check her ISO

I looked over her case file, and I found that her actions were not for the town.

Make your case. Why am I scum?

In general:

I know that it's a very frustrating answer to recieve, but I would like you to do more substansive things.

Hm, to give you a direction to head in, I have yet to sink my teeth into Mucho Madam's posts. Could you try your hand at that?

I disagree with the assessment that I haven't done anything substantive, but I'll keep your wishes in mind. In the meantime I'm gonna keep doing my thang

At that point, you did indeed give out some substance, but I was asking for more from you. Yes, you did give out some reads here and there, did a little socializing, but it would've been hardly enough to judge your towncred.

---

Paradoxically, you've implied that you've both posted enough relevant things to be active And that the game has been slow as a reason for inactivity:

Black, my dear, this doesn't seem like you, usually you sink your teeth in a bit more than this. More an observation rather than a read, but is making me say hmmmm

shrug

I would love to sink my teeth in but there hasn't been a lot happening this game

Like I get wanting to vote Black, but I do feel a town vibe from her posts even though she is being lazy lol.

How am I being lazy?

---

This exchange:

[...]
As for me, I'm voting Dragons to pressure them as they are low-activity. I would appreciate some extra support. [I may end up switching to Black/Shadez in a day if no one joins the dWagon.]

Strange that you would want to swap to me after saying earlier that I feel fine. What changed?

Are you referring to this post?

Hm. I think Black is ~fine for now.

VOTE: Shaddowez

Shadez! You haven't been around here a lot. Care to try your hand at this beautiful, elegant game?

Because this was both over 200 posts ago and didn't really purport a townread on you. I'll admit that it would imply

some

towncred on you, but a more nuanced read is that I was moving on to another player in a campaign to encourage gameplay.

I wouldn't say much has changed [I haven't ~really~ paid you much mind] in that regard.

If there was another post that you were thinking of, please do bring it to my attention. I may have missed it

---

For day 1, most of your posts are 1 to 2 lines of questions or simple reads that you had. For most of your posts, you never felt like you needed to elaborate on your points.

So what about the times that you did post more than one or twice? Well...

Spoiler: QuoteWall!

@Black

, since you said I put in words what you were thinking. Thoughts on what I concluded from that? I personally feel reluctant but I do think that realistically that comes from town more than not

I've heard people say that a sense of entitlement comes from town but I haven't really put much thought into determining if that's true or not. It makes sense in theory. I feel like scum want to be less combative early on

I just feel Town has a substantially higher chance of acting entitled because there's no inherent noose dangling over their heads like there is for wolves + they don't feel the need to have a good image

That makes sense, but the last part I don't really agree with. I think certain players feel the need to seem townie when they are town. If people find me as town then I feel like I'm doing something right and the PoE is reduced for the people that townread me, which helps them narrow in on the baddies

1.05

Votecount 1.05

[...]
Mucho Man Randy Passion (1): Black, JacksonVirgo
[...]

(Just wanted to point this out to the mod.)

VOTE: Black
cmon.. do something..

Thanks, fixed.

- Alianna

What would you like me to do? I have a couple of minor reads already but I'm mostly vibing for now. I tend to be busy on the weekends

I kinda feel like there's some solving going on underneath Mucho Man's gimmick. This slot feels hard to read but they might be town

I don't really have any scumreads yet so I'll just help out on another wagon

VOTE: shaddow

I agree that NM seems a little different than normal. Maybe more engaged and active early which I haven't seen from him much. I'm not really sure this is scum indicative though

With all that you said on your page 16, shouldn't you be voting me or Black?

I like this observation. I think it's probably +town for lucca to point this out. Scum are probably more likely to just let Jake push StD here instead of drawing attention to themselves

This just makes me think your scumread on me was fabricated. The read was based on you thinking I wasn't doing enough. The natural townie thought process would be to keep an eye on me to see if that behavior continues. I don't think it makes much sense for town!you to stop paying attention to me

This just makes me think your scumread on me was fabricated. The read was based on you thinking I wasn't doing enough. The natural townie thought process would be to keep an eye on me to see if that behavior continues. I don't think it makes much sense for town!you to stop paying attention to me

Hm.

I

could

do that, or I could let your posts rest where they are and re-eval at a later time. It mostly depends on how relevant you are to my worldview at that time. And throughout those 200 posts, you weren't really relevant to my worldview.

Ok. Maybe this is just a difference in playstyles but I always consider my scumleans relevant to my worldview. Even if I'm pushing inactive slots, I'm always thinking about those scumleans and paying attention to what they are doing

I think we're shaping up to just flashwagon crazily at deadline like the first iteration of this. :lol:

I'm particularly interested in hearing from Black about her vote. I noticed she seemed to be following my vote for a while and now she's doing the opposite.

-Atalanta

I wasn't following your vote, at least not intentionally. I had to look at your ISO to see and all I noticed was we were on the shaddow wagon together

As far as my vote on your slot goes, it was mainly to pressure RH9 and also glean some reactions from the wagon. I had gotten success getting Sky and Invis to talk with pressure votes so I figured I'd do the same with you

VOTE: Invisibility

I haven't really liked anything Invis has done this game

I also feel like RH9 posting several times that he's catching up and then disappearing is probably +town for them. I don't understand why scum!him would do that when he could just...not do that and let Aureal/Drew carry him. It's the type of unnecessary bad optics I don't really expect from scum

Maybe it was just twice. You defended Macho Man when Jackson was saying they were scummy for neutral hunting and now you seem to be defending Jacob

I don't really think it's scummy of you but it's just something I noticed. I'm curious what your read on the slot is

lucca feels super townie to me

Why so? Honest question, I'm not calling out or doubting

I just think a lot of his observations have come from a town perspective. I liked 422. 607 and 615 ping me as the type of paranoia a townie would have. I like the way he admits he's wrong in 610, not really a town-tell but it makes me feel like he's being reasonable. I like 613 as well, makes me think he's trying to legitimately solve

I'm not sure if a Hu Tao vanity wagon is the best idea. We risk a no elimination with all these split wagons

It's time for all the people on the one-vote wagons to start consolidating

Most of these posts are either responding to light to moderate accusations your way or being a bit too over defensive on what you're saying.

---

Here are all of your posts related to Jacob on Day 2:

Spoiler: QuoteWall 2!

That’s awkward. Any town want to claim bad hit on NM? On my phone now so I can’t examine fully but want to get on the board early. Give me a few minutes

Why are you assuming town killed N_M when we have a Mafia kill and an SK in the game?

That’s awkward. Any town want to claim bad hit on NM? On my phone now so I can’t examine fully but want to get on the board early. Give me a few minutes

Why are you assuming town killed N_M when we have a Mafia kill and an SK in the game?

Missed the SK, that's my bad. Most likely no town kill last night which makes more sense.

Ok, that's somewhat believable. But what made you think Hu Tao was the scum kill?

I'm down to fade Jacob

I feel like he TMI'd that Hu Tao was the scum kill

Black Voted me before JV called out the investigation result on me (729) - which was somewhat explained in 721 but still of note I think.

Once JV said he got a guilty it was pretty obvious it was on you considering he opened the day voting for you

In post 770 she quoted Not_Mafia's post 382, where he put out his readlist thing from green to red, saying that the SK was someone low on Not_Mafia's list. This list was a troll list though right? With his own name at the bottom?

It's not necessarily a troll list just because he put himself at the bottom. The rest of the reads could have been real, and probably were

Anyway, if this flips red then the hydra is incredibly townie

Agreed to that

:thinking:

I'm the one that caught him, let me be the one to end him >:)

Be careful what you wish for.

To my townies: I'm still not sure on JV. If he's mafia then he's pretty brave for going so hard at the beginning. At the same time, the numbers point to his guilt.

I'm not sure why scum!JV would pull this gambit just to fade you

You pushed Jacob.

Hard.

Like, really hard. For someone who had a red check on them, that might be understandable. But this is what you did for most of Day 2.
Why am I bringing this up? Well, because this is blatantly not worth it. It would've been a foregone conclusion that Jacob was a wolf. In that time, you could've discussed other things, such as the night kills and how that might've impacted your reads. Additionally, Jackson's results may not have been reliable, something that was discussed during day 2, and that you didn't acknowledge.

This is bloodlust.

---

These two posts are interesting when read together:

That’s awkward. Any town want to claim bad hit on NM? On my phone now so I can’t examine fully but want to get on the board early. Give me a few minutes

Why are you assuming town killed N_M when we have a Mafia kill and an SK in the game?

Missed the SK, that's my bad. Most likely no town kill last night which makes more sense.

Ok, that's somewhat believable. But what made you think Hu Tao was the scum kill?

Some basic NKA:

Hu Tao was probably a Mafia kill. Given that there were generally good vibes all around, Hu Tao wasn't a loyal townread to everyone, but they were generally townread.
Not_Mafia was probably an SK kill. Not only because of the above, but also Mafia are unlikely to kill their prized cow, aiming to axe them instead.

I'll have to go back and check D1 to update this analysis.

Yeah I agree with this. Scum don't ever kill N_M here. He's too valuable to them

I don't really understand why the SK kills him either but here we are

For one of us (Jacob), you scrutinized them for what they said about the night kill, suspecting them for what they said while agreeing with what I said.

Importantly, the two actions that we took were very similar, and yet one of them was further evidence of their guilt while the other was something you could get behind.

---

Meh whatever

VOTE: Jacob24

-Atalanta

This vote seems out of character for you. I'm not used to you being ok with ending the day so early

This isn't literally shading Argon, but it's spiritually shading Argon.

---

I could go into more detail, but in general I scumread you because you've done some seriously sketchy things.

[Jake The Wolfie]

We can't let Alianna get #1000

50 posts away

We all need to come together and prevent this

Agreed. We must put to rest the arbitrary boundaries that divide us and prevent the true enemy from winning: The Moderator.

[JacksonVirgo]

Can you point out what entitlement you saw?

Spoiler:

Since when did I need to place a vote to make a point

-snip-
Also, your point on my question is wrong.
-snip-

Yes, your point is wrong. I get that on a quick read you weren't going to think it through like I explained. But now that I've explained - took it "way further" in your words - what does that mean to you? Am I scum over-defending? Town who likes to discuss mafia theory? Town trying to get us out of RVS?

These two bits in partciular read as overly entitled and that "I'm right over all else", it doesn't feel like a deflection or trying to shut it down. It feels like he genuinely rejected the idea out of a sense of superiority for lack of a better term. I don't get a single scum vibe from these, these are from town. If you don't see it I can also try and have another look and analyse STD as to be completely honest they've been kind of a nobody in my eyes (no offence) but like I really don't see them as a wolf at all. Entitlement is probably a bad term but I can't think of a better fitting word.

[JacksonVirgo]

Spoiler your walls gosh dang it

[JacksonVirgo]

Your wall has sub-walls, this is crazy

[JacksonVirgo]

This isn't really game-indicative but like Clap was an alt from a ban-evading player who was faking being not that experienced, wasn't he?

Couldn't the entitlement come from that?

No?

[JacksonVirgo]

It has nothing to do with experience

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll wait for Black to respond to you Jake before I add my 2c

[lucca261]

my point is not about experience, but I digress

[JacksonVirgo]

my point is not about experience, but I digress

That was your entire post?

[lucca261]

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

[Black]

Paradoxically, you've implied that you've both posted enough relevant things to be active And that the game has been slow as a reason for inactivity:

Aureal was implying that I didn't feel like my usual self because I typically pounce on people early. I

was

posting relevant things, but I

wasn't

pouncing on anyone. This is not a paradox and I was not inactive

For day 1, most of your posts are 1 to 2 lines of questions or simple reads that you had.

This isn't scummy

Most of these posts are either responding to light to moderate accusations your way or being a bit too over defensive on what you're saying.

This isn't scummy either, and is actually something I do often as town. You can check my previous games if you'd like

You pushed Jacob. Hard. Like, really hard. For someone who had a red check on them, that might be understandable. But this is what you did for most of Day 2.

This is bloodlust.

Again, not scummy. That was me sinking my teeth in as referenced earlier. I tend to do that when I think someone is scum

For one of us (Jacob), you scrutinized them for what they said about the night kill, suspecting them for what they said while agreeing with what I said.

Importantly, the two actions that we took were very similar, and yet one of them was further evidence of their guilt while the other was something you could get behind.

You two said similar things in completely different ways. These are not comparable

This isn't literally shading Argon, but it's spiritually shading Argon.

I thought it was strange how she displayed behavior that she doesn't normally display as town. Of course I'm going to press her on it

Your case is poop

[Jake The Wolfie]

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

Unfortunately, my loyalties for that time were spend elsewhere. At least I read up on Black and got a neat little justification for scumreading them.

[lucca261]

my point is not about experience, but I digress

That was your entire post?

I don't really know how to say my point without being like an asshole so I'll just say that I'll believe Clap would be annoying and abrasive regardless of alignment considering what I've read from his behaviour on his other account

[Black]

Jake, did you read the ISOs of both Shaddow/STD during the night as well?

Unfortunately, my loyalties for that time were spend elsewhere. At least I read up on Black and got a neat little justification for scumreading them.

You are scumreading me for things that aren't inherently scummy. You might want to check your confbias. It feels like you have been reading my posts with rose colored glasses all game

And yet for some reason you haven't really pushed me? You open the day saying you think I'm scum but you vote for JV instead

I feel like a case of that size should be accompanied with a vote

[JacksonVirgo]

I don't really know how to say my point without being like an asshole so I'll just say that I'll believe Clap would be annoying and abrasive regardless of alignment considering what I've read from his behaviour on his other account

Ah, I see