Catch up post.
In post 182, outoforder wrote:
In post 173, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 149, outoforder wrote:
In post 130, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
If you want me to talk more about why I am a little sus of DarthPunk, this reaction is part of the reason why.
Outoforder said a thing about they think Dannflor might be trying to cozy up to them. Dannflor then reacted by voting for Outoforder.
Now you can either look at that as a joke, or you can see that Dannflor is unironically just trying to distance himself from Outoforder. One interpretation is that this was meaningless and another is, IMO, totally understandable. Thus, I don't really get why DarthPunk took so much issue with it. It's scummy to take issue with stuff on flimsy evidence, since scum know they're never going to get solid evidence of anything and thus must jump on even the flimsiest of cases and hope it somehow blows up into something legitimate.
Like it's just weird I guess. It didn't strike me as a scummy activity at all so I guess I just don't follow the thought process that might make someone think it was, other than a very simplified "there's a vote with little rationale behind it, go after it", which isn't much of a case so early in the day.
There is nothing scummy there.
I don't know Dannflor from before, how do you take that?
I dunno? None of my takes have been based on anything that happened in any games previous to this one. If you and Dannflor had some long and storied history with one another, I'd still hope that you evaluated his thoughts and actions in the context of this game and not biased by previous ones. I don't have any history with anyone here, but speaking for myself, if I did, I'd honestly do everything in my power to forget it and force myself to judge their thoughts and actions in this game and this game alone.
I'm not sure what to make of everything you just said and did. You offered a lot of opinions but hardly any rationale for any of it. I don't think any of us are particularly concerned with exactly what you believe as we are with WHY you believe it.
Like let me press you for more info on a few things, give me a moment...
(wow, 4 new posts since I started writing this)
I would like you to press me more on this please.
I like OOO wanting to get pressed here. Mostly because of meta reasons, I like it when OOO is setting traps or checking to see if his expectations are met within certain interactions. It means he is thinking about thread dynamics and trying to deduce people's alignments internally and I think this is more likely to be part of his natural process as town.
I don't like his Luca Read though, at this point in the thread, Luca has seemed to me pretty townie, and I have not really disagreed with any of their thoughts or conclusions.
In post 185, gob wrote:
Lets discuss something important...
Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO
These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.
Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.
VOTE: Vivax
This doesn't make any fucking sense, especially in the context of random voting on this site.
In post 190, outoforder wrote:
In post 185, gob wrote:
Lets discuss something important...
Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO
These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.
Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.
VOTE: Vivax
This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol
I agree, but I also disagree that they can't be mafia here.
In post 191, gob wrote:
In post 190, outoforder wrote:
In post 185, gob wrote:
Lets discuss something important...
Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO
These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.
Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.
VOTE: Vivax
This is probably the worst reason ever to vote for anyone, but also not mafia reason lol
It's honestly not that bad. Statistically it checks out im pretty sure.
It is.
In post 199, Vivax wrote:
But you also think Luca looks scummy when he seems like the sanest person itt so meh, you might be mafia after all.
VOTE: outoforder
I understand this vote, but I don't think that his Luca read makes OoO mafia.
In post 212, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 185, gob wrote:
Lets discuss something important...
Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO
These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.
Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.
VOTE: Vivax
Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post
Oats looking good.
In post 225, gob wrote:
In post 219, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 217, Vivax wrote:
In post 215, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 214, Vivax wrote:
In post 212, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 185, gob wrote:
Lets discuss something important...
Roden voted Vivax
Naerys voted OoO
Dannfloor Vivax
Vivax OoO
These are the first votes in the game. Generally mafia wants to establish distancing earlier.
Roden and Dann voted Vivax.
Naerys voted OoO
Vivax voted OoO.
Given that Vivax was voted twice and also voted for someone, they are the person who gives the most info, and is the most likely to be wolf as well.
VOTE: Vivax
Its ridiculous that yall let gob get away with this tbh.
I know im using ridiculous a lot, but this is an insanely terrible post
It's funny that you acknowledge this and think it's scummy, but somehow are oblivious to outoforder giving him a townread for it while you don't. If you are town then what does that make outoforder, or me for that matter?
Considering we think the same it's odd that you think I'm scummy but manage to overlook the entire reason that I'm voting him for yet is one you seem to be agreeing with.
If he's mafia though I congratulate you to what later will be a present scumclaim.
how does outoforder giving him a town read make outoforder scum rather than bad?
Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol.
He said gob‘s post was so bad that it made him town.
Why don‘t you double down on your separate thoughts and ask Outoforder the same question, or yourself for that matter:
Why does it make gob bad and not scum ?
Double standard spotted, Oats.
Ah yes when someone disagrees with me they must be scum. of course. makes me have a double standard.
Gob post is bad because hes trying to apply intent to a phase in the game with no intent, so clearly hes just posting for the sake of posting, and "trying" to find a reason to jump on you, the current most popular target.
There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."
It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.
Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.
OK.
VOTE: GOB
In post 230, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.
In post 231, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.
Very weird change of direction here from Ninja, has just started a push onto OOO and then kind of undermines themselves with an elim lurkers tangent. Undermining your own pushes is scummy because you can act like you are invested and doing stuff but you are also limiting the effect of your push in essence doing something while achieving nothing, which is the goal as mafia.
In post 233, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
However I am very much in a tizzy over what OutOfOrder has been doing and saying (and NOT saying, more importantly) so I am leaving my vote there for the time being and hoping for a response. I am murican and this is my bed time so I will see you all in my murican morning.
Yeah just a bit all over the place to be honest.
In post 234, Roden wrote:
In post 230, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.
What lack of activity?
LOL I guess Roden and Ninja can't be mafia together at least.
In post 241, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 231, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.
Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time
Agree with this.
Why does this matter @RODEN? weird way to respond to being (correctly) called out, I guess you are trying to undermine his thread presence?
In post 268, Roden wrote:
I don't need to case someone who already confirmed themselves as scum lol
Scummy
In post 270, Luca Blight wrote:
I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.
Agree with this, this is also why I think Luca is town, just too sensible and insightful at the right times to be maf imo.
In post 272, Luca Blight wrote:
It's also the second time a seemingly passive player has burst into life and suddenly gone ultra-aggressive, which as I said earlier I read as more likely to come from scum who are having a hard time blending it otherwise and feel the need to create waves. Doing so against a partner would be a safer route of achieving this. Outoforder at least comes across as Townie to some extent, which I'm not seeing from Roden yet.
Although I really don't like the preflip associative reads at all. So thats bad. But not maf.
In post 276, Roden wrote:
In post 274, Luca Blight wrote:
I'd rather vote you, as I don't believe the way you're portraying your view of the game to be real. It's feels as if you're overcompensating.
Ok, found the second scum
This guy is just mafia.
In post 306, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 234, Roden wrote:
In post 230, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
If activity levels, or lack thereof, are an indication of guilt, then I'd be very suspicious of Dunnstral, Naerys, and Roden. And obviously MalcolmTucker but they might be afk and getting replaced.
What lack of activity?
Does anyone find it interesting that Roden reacted like this to my post, and THEN came the aggressive showdown with Oats? Because I certainly do.
I'm totally on board with Lucas's sentiments that the whole Roden vs. Oats thing seems overblown. However when Oats got personal, it made me realize they're probably just being a jerk, and I've learned that being a jerk actually kinda tends to be a town tell. Scum wouldn't take it personally to be viewed as suspicious since they clearly are guilty, but town views it as an attack on their mafia skill to be innocent but viewed as guilty, and they have the confidence of knowing their own innocence, so from those two things I can see where the "being a jerk" thing comes about. Which is all a long winded way of saying I don't really view oats as scummy here.
Roden's reaction is a bit different and again seems possibly driven by what I said. Could just be overconfident town, but to talk directly to Roden here, please realize what you're doing here isn't helpful, your case is very flimsy, and now you're having to play defense. If you're actually town, it would behoove you to find a way to put this behind us, and continuing what seems like a bad case against oats probably won't get us there.
Why do you Imply Roden's reaction is scummy and then you talk to him as if he is town? This post is big waffle that doesn't do anything or really say anything.
I disagree that town players are more likely to be a Jerk. I will tell you that TL players are more likely to be aggressive in their interactions.
In post 309, Vivax wrote:
I found Roden very townie so far.
Laid back much even.
are we reading the same game?
In post 310, Vivax wrote:
In post 308, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 259, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 256, Roden wrote:
And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?
Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?
For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.
We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.
I can vouch for this, Its a TL thing.
In post 315, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 313, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 241, Hu Tao wrote:
In post 231, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
I think there's probably at least one deepfaker in here somewhere, or I'm at least leaving myself open to the possibility so that I don't get hoodwinked by people, but I'm willing to bet there's probably like two scum between Dunnstral / Naerys / Roden.
Sus post. Looks like you're just going after low hanging fruit. The games been open for like a day? Give it time
I hate to toot my own horn, but I feel like if there's anyone in this game that you could accuse of "just going after low hanging fruit", it certainly isn't me.
I am immediately sus of anyone who is pushing back on what I said (the main reason I said it was to see who would do so / how people would react). There's little to no incentive for townies to discourage people from using what is historically a pretty decent scum tell. But there's PLENTY of scummy reason for scum, who often struggle to find useful things to say, to push back against anyone sending out a reminder that a lack of meaningful contribution is significant.
Can you show that it is historically a good scum tell?
Spoiler, its not.
In post 318, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved:
viewtopic.php?t=92058
Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.
The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.
Total number of posts from the scum team:
HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)
Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.
You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.
It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.
If you tried this on my home site you would not get very far at all.
In post 319, gob wrote:
We need to lim between Naerys / Vivax / SuperflousNinja
OutofOrder's tone has been consistent since the begining of the game. He also did progress the first page on his own pretty much.
SuperflousNinja's posts are really long and kinda void of anything worthwhile (in my opinion). So I am thinking she could also be mafia. Naerys not really sure on.
Don't like the let's lynch into X players, really easy to just not include the mafia there as mafia. I agree on the Ninja read tho.
In post 323, Vivax wrote:
In post 322, gob wrote:
Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.
everyone get on vivax
Honestly you remind me of one of those peasants from Monty Python.
Luca said OOO hasn‘t been consistent, you say he has. That‘s the point. Your opinions differ, that should bother you, because it bothers me if it doesn‘t.
Good post.
In post 345, Roden wrote:
In post 310, Vivax wrote:
In post 308, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 259, Oatsmaster wrote:
In post 256, Roden wrote:
And why are you so scared of revealing information about who you are as a player?
Why is your reading comprehension so bad you need me to spell it out for you?
For real though, this is incredibly rude and I hope this isn't how people plan on treating each other in this game.
We can vote him for it. In his defense though, that's how he's learned to play.
This actually answers the question I was asking Oats earlier. His play felt super similar to Punk's, who comes from a different site, so it made me think he probably came from there as well. In that case, it would explain the instant aggression and over-the-top criticism towards the town and site culture. Oats refusing to answer that question though made me think he knew I just detected his scum tell, but that he wasn't from the same site as Punk and couldn't lie and say he was, and so refusing to answer was his only way to shrug off pressure as scum.
It turns out no, he's just unhelpful and abrasive for literally no reason besides being taught bad habits.
UNVOTE:
Bit of the pot calling the kettle black here.
In post 351, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
In post 225, gob wrote:
There is intent in RVS stage. The mafia commonly vote their partner in RVS stage to "distance."
It is a bad play, mind you. But people do it often.
Although i do admit i was posting for the sake of posting.
Emphasis mine. I just wanted to highlight this one too as what I think is clearly non-townie behavior.
This is a good pickup, I like ninja when she is posting less waffle and actually just gets to the point (ironic I know with this catchup post
)
In post 372, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 318, SuperfluousNinja wrote:
Sure, let's look at the most recent Mini Normal game that resolved:
viewtopic.php?t=92058
Scum team was HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, and Purplemango.
The game had 4147 total posts and lasted for 5 days. With 13 total players, the average contribution of a player is then 4147 / 13 = 319, as your point of reference.
Total number of posts from the scum team:
HighPrincessErinys: 162 (died at end of day 3, so 2 days where no activity would be expected)
Hu Tao: 459 (alive all 5 days)
Purplemango: 103 (alive all 5 days)
Even if we extrapolate HighPrincess's post count for a full 5 days of survival, that would only put them at about 250, still less than the average contribution of 319 posts. Purplemango is clearly well below average at 103. Hu Tao is slightly above average, which I concede, but not above the average by much. Hu Tao was alive for all 5 days, which the majority of players were not, and only managed to come in just above the average.
You can compare that to other very active townies like Flavor Leaf who posted 1130 times and Dragon eater who posted 722 times. When you're a townie, you can post a lot more frequently with much more confidence.
It is not an entirely infallible method. But it is certainly a pretty decent one.
There are so many things wrong with this. First of all you're taking averages in that game and comparing the mafia to be above or below average posting rate. In this game, you've simply said the three lowest posters are mafia. In reality only Purplemango is in the lowest 3 in the game you've linked. You're also using a game where 2 town players have way more posts than normal which are two outliers that is throwing everything out of whack. Finally you've presented a sample size of one which isn't enough to say that this is a trend that occurs over multiple games.
For someone this sensible I really wish you contributed more.
Reads:
Oats: Tip Top Town.
Luca: Town
OOO: Lean town
Dannflor, Vivax : doing stuff
Hu Tao, Dunnstral, Nareys: Sensible, but need to post more.
Lean Mafia: Ninja
Mafia: GOB and Roden.
