Mini Normal 2325 | Game Over

[ketchup777]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

[Luca Blight]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

I'm from England (same as you I believe) but live in Thailand currently.

[Doctor Drew]

More votes on Psyche and Jacob please

I won't be around much this weekend but we need to pressure some of these slots into doing stuff

I have been leaning scum on Psyche as well, just feels so less engaged that Wilson imo now.

[Psyche]

in my defense — i nearly flaked from wilson too

[Psyche]

honestly, i always do this. im sorry

[Doctor Drew]

in my defense — i nearly flaked from wilson too

But at least you had some spicy takes there, you seem afraid to give any takes here.

[Hu Tao]

Ketchup's play is looking bad but i'm willing to let it slide cause of their tone for no

Hu Tao, you and me, let's kill the scumteam

Okay lets

[Hu Tao]

Sorry if I'm wrong, as you've been nothing but friendly to me / townreading me so far. But there's my case. let's see your fight

I respect the effort. And you're probably town still. Who do you think would be my partner then?

[Titus]

in my defense — i nearly flaked from wilson too

If you're cast away, the only person who you can't flake from is Wilson.

Tom Hanks agrees.

[Luca Blight]

Regarding 1113, I think I've finally seen enough to hang my hat on Ketchup being town, which is a relief. I do think Hu Tao's implicit and unwavering sheeping of my push on Bugs/Dann was a bit strange, which is why I posed the question in 172, but I've been side-tracked by other players I've found overtly scummier to really put too much attention her way. I have a tendency to almost write such cocky play off as more likely town until later in the game, but I do think Ketchup makes a lot of good points in the first part of his post.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: OutWorld

I'm going back to my gut feeling. I've got a sneaky feeling OutWorld/Black could be partners, actually.

Why?

I feel as though they've been soft-defending each other throughout the game without good reason.

[Luca Blight]

Ketchup's 1117 is a brilliant post as well. I particularly like the points about gypyx and Project/Titus which reflected my own thoughts.

[Gypyx]

for the record i'm not really open to a massclaim right now, maybe tommorow? right now we already have a confirmed town so mafia is in the rough position of having to kill them or aim elsewhere and hope they do manage to get a PR

[Gypyx]

Spoiler: The Hu Tao murder case

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

There's been next to nothing to go off of today. I want to up the ante though.

Who would be for a massclaim be at this point to try get some momentum and not let the mafia have an easy ride in the shadows?

Please offer thoughts for or against this. Or just do

something!

[i/]

As Black said in 1100 , we need to start pressuring people; thank you for pressuring me because the pace of this game is alarmingly stagnant right now.

end of post addition: I was going to offer up my rough current reads, but when I started with Hu Tao it suddenly turned into a surprise Hu Tao dismembering session. So here's my case against Hu Tao. It's so long it will be separated from my other reads. Here goes:

Hu Tao: Hmm well I looked at her ISO again just now, and, er... well. I found LOTS of things I am suspicious of. Here goes:

Sus 1: The destruction of bugs/dann:

After attacking Bugs' first in 39 , Hu Tao lays low until sensing an opportunity (perhaps) with Luca's 150 . Note the times between messages 150 and 151. Less than 2 minutes apart. Obviously we can tell that Hu Tao was online at the time, so maybe not so suspicious, but did she immediately sense an opportunity to exploit Luca and take it? Possibly. When she next comes on 70 mins later, she votes Bugs in 161 essentially sheeping Luca's reads. Black starts to cast suspicion on Bugs in 160 , and maybe this was the calling Hu Tao was waiting for? (ofc note that she could just have gone offline for a bit) Now she places her vote in 161 , and

continues to direct everyone towards voting this slot

, with 265 , 281 , 284 , 451 , 452 and 672 . For the people who don't want to go find those:

"Sorry you replaced into scum again, Dann. I was looking forward to playing with you again."
"Yep. Bug/Dann is scum slot. Let's keep voting"
"2 more votes. All we need for a day 1 scum elim"
"Stay the course of Dann. He's scum" [after Black switched her vote to Project]
"Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations, but bug was scummy from their first post. Also with the meta involved."
"Quick. Someone hammer"

Read those together and judge for yourself, I guess.

Sus 2: other stuff

a:

Why am I very townie?

Jacob puts Hu Tao as one of his 'very townie' reads (along with himself, Drew and Luca). Hu Tao questions why she seems townie to him. If you were mafia, you might want to know this so you can keep doing what you're doing. As town, you could ask this too, but I think it's slightly less likely than mafia wanting to know why.

b:

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

Project begins to raise some good points and question the logic of Hu Tao and the reasoning behind the scumteam's kill. Hu Tao makes this strange statement I highlighted in purple above. Looking for the team and who could be partners is surely just as important and valid as looking for single scums? Now I did some more game reading for fun earlier because nothing interesting was happening over here and hey what did I find?

Remind me who you think my partner is, Hu Tao?

I'm sure you're scum. I'll figure out the other tomorrow.

The above is from the recently finished mini normal #2322, where Hu Tao was scum. Hu Tao used the same morally questionable logic in the endgame here on Jan 30th, a day and 5 hours before applying it again here. Suspicious much?

c:

There is also a bit of a disconnect between 941 and 942 . Hu Tao's "Hmm" read on Gypyx (rather than "townie") does not seem consistent with "This seems like a town post.

Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

". "Hmm" suggests doubt, no? Then it would not be so surpising to see people also having doubts.

d:

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

Finally, Hu Tao hasn't answered my questioning here yet. Not suspicious necessarily but I still don't understand what she was trying to say.

well damn.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Sus 1 is very good, and i guess since this game is way too static i'll try to vote there to see if this unlocks anything

Sus 2 feels more questionable and kinda reads as if you've came up with all that after formulating sus 1 and wanting to put more in your case, am i wrong?

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Gypyx]

finally ketchup could you explain a bit more these vibes that Psyche is town? i feel like their 1128 and 1101 read pretty annoyed at actually being pointed at for "weak" reasons, which is more of a scum mindset where you're less focused around being able to solve and more like how you're looking. Yeah of course Psyche raises some fair points but that's not the question here

[ketchup777]

actually no - mylo still works. I just woke up so my mind isn't quite clear yet.

American timezone?

I'm from England (same as you I believe) but live in Thailand currently.

Oh awesome! I’ve never been outside europe yet but Thailand is one of the places that seems super cool

[ketchup777]

Spoiler: The Hu Tao murder case

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

There's been next to nothing to go off of today. I want to up the ante though.

Who would be for a massclaim be at this point to try get some momentum and not let the mafia have an easy ride in the shadows?

Please offer thoughts for or against this. Or just do

something!

[i/]

As Black said in 1100 , we need to start pressuring people; thank you for pressuring me because the pace of this game is alarmingly stagnant right now.

end of post addition: I was going to offer up my rough current reads, but when I started with Hu Tao it suddenly turned into a surprise Hu Tao dismembering session. So here's my case against Hu Tao. It's so long it will be separated from my other reads. Here goes:

Hu Tao: Hmm well I looked at her ISO again just now, and, er... well. I found LOTS of things I am suspicious of. Here goes:

Sus 1: The destruction of bugs/dann:

After attacking Bugs' first in 39 , Hu Tao lays low until sensing an opportunity (perhaps) with Luca's 150 . Note the times between messages 150 and 151. Less than 2 minutes apart. Obviously we can tell that Hu Tao was online at the time, so maybe not so suspicious, but did she immediately sense an opportunity to exploit Luca and take it? Possibly. When she next comes on 70 mins later, she votes Bugs in 161 essentially sheeping Luca's reads. Black starts to cast suspicion on Bugs in 160 , and maybe this was the calling Hu Tao was waiting for? (ofc note that she could just have gone offline for a bit) Now she places her vote in 161 , and

continues to direct everyone towards voting this slot

, with 265 , 281 , 284 , 451 , 452 and 672 . For the people who don't want to go find those:

"Sorry you replaced into scum again, Dann. I was looking forward to playing with you again."
"Yep. Bug/Dann is scum slot. Let's keep voting"
"2 more votes. All we need for a day 1 scum elim"
"Stay the course of Dann. He's scum" [after Black switched her vote to Project]
"Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations, but bug was scummy from their first post. Also with the meta involved."
"Quick. Someone hammer"

Read those together and judge for yourself, I guess.

Sus 2: other stuff

a:

Why am I very townie?

Jacob puts Hu Tao as one of his 'very townie' reads (along with himself, Drew and Luca). Hu Tao questions why she seems townie to him. If you were mafia, you might want to know this so you can keep doing what you're doing. As town, you could ask this too, but I think it's slightly less likely than mafia wanting to know why.

b:

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

Project begins to raise some good points and question the logic of Hu Tao and the reasoning behind the scumteam's kill. Hu Tao makes this strange statement I highlighted in purple above. Looking for the team and who could be partners is surely just as important and valid as looking for single scums? Now I did some more game reading for fun earlier because nothing interesting was happening over here and hey what did I find?

Remind me who you think my partner is, Hu Tao?

I'm sure you're scum. I'll figure out the other tomorrow.

The above is from the recently finished mini normal #2322, where Hu Tao was scum. Hu Tao used the same morally questionable logic in the endgame here on Jan 30th, a day and 5 hours before applying it again here. Suspicious much?

c:

There is also a bit of a disconnect between 941 and 942 . Hu Tao's "Hmm" read on Gypyx (rather than "townie") does not seem consistent with "This seems like a town post.

Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

". "Hmm" suggests doubt, no? Then it would not be so surpising to see people also having doubts.

d:

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

Finally, Hu Tao hasn't answered my questioning here yet. Not suspicious necessarily but I still don't understand what she was trying to say.

well damn.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Sus 1 is very good, and i guess since this game is way too static i'll try to vote there to see if this unlocks anything

Sus 2 feels more questionable and kinda reads as if you've came up with all that after formulating sus 1 and wanting to put more in your case, am i wrong?

VOTE: Hu Tao

No that's fair, I just wanted to lay down all my thoughts at once. I think sus2:b could actually be a good point, but the rest are hardly anything to go on.
Thanks for applying some pressure!

[ketchup777]

oops I am not trying to impersonate thomith. I am NOT thomith. (;

[ketchup777]

Right, time to go through OutWorld's ISO. Will answer other queries at me in a bit

[Gypyx]

2B is actually the one i disagree with the most ironically

it's very easy for scum to hide themselves in a team solve, have one misflip and "whoops guess i had it all wrong time to reevaluate" (aka : i'm free to vote the best vote for the scumteam)

later on team solves become more important as the restricted playerlist makes it easier to go by process of elimination

and anyways, consider this : scum!Hu Tao is doing this as scum cause she earnestly belives that's what town!Hu Tao would do / what she actually does as town

i think 2a is actually more interesting of a point given this kind of questions *can* come from town but generally townies who are way more engaged in the game

[Gypyx]

Spoiler: The Hu Tao murder case

And you, Ketchup? You're voting an absent player who is most likely getting replaced at some point, so your attention is better directed elsewhere for now. Do you have much in the way of reads currently?

There's been next to nothing to go off of today. I want to up the ante though.

Who would be for a massclaim be at this point to try get some momentum and not let the mafia have an easy ride in the shadows?

Please offer thoughts for or against this. Or just do

something!

[i/]

As Black said in 1100 , we need to start pressuring people; thank you for pressuring me because the pace of this game is alarmingly stagnant right now.

end of post addition: I was going to offer up my rough current reads, but when I started with Hu Tao it suddenly turned into a surprise Hu Tao dismembering session. So here's my case against Hu Tao. It's so long it will be separated from my other reads. Here goes:

Hu Tao: Hmm well I looked at her ISO again just now, and, er... well. I found LOTS of things I am suspicious of. Here goes:

Sus 1: The destruction of bugs/dann:

After attacking Bugs' first in 39 , Hu Tao lays low until sensing an opportunity (perhaps) with Luca's 150 . Note the times between messages 150 and 151. Less than 2 minutes apart. Obviously we can tell that Hu Tao was online at the time, so maybe not so suspicious, but did she immediately sense an opportunity to exploit Luca and take it? Possibly. When she next comes on 70 mins later, she votes Bugs in 161 essentially sheeping Luca's reads. Black starts to cast suspicion on Bugs in 160 , and maybe this was the calling Hu Tao was waiting for? (ofc note that she could just have gone offline for a bit) Now she places her vote in 161 , and

continues to direct everyone towards voting this slot

, with 265 , 281 , 284 , 451 , 452 and 672 . For the people who don't want to go find those:

"Sorry you replaced into scum again, Dann. I was looking forward to playing with you again."
"Yep. Bug/Dann is scum slot. Let's keep voting"
"2 more votes. All we need for a day 1 scum elim"
"Stay the course of Dann. He's scum" [after Black switched her vote to Project]
"Dann is good at wiggling out of bad situations, but bug was scummy from their first post. Also with the meta involved."
"Quick. Someone hammer"

Read those together and judge for yourself, I guess.

Sus 2: other stuff

a:

Why am I very townie?

Jacob puts Hu Tao as one of his 'very townie' reads (along with himself, Drew and Luca). Hu Tao questions why she seems townie to him. If you were mafia, you might want to know this so you can keep doing what you're doing. As town, you could ask this too, but I think it's slightly less likely than mafia wanting to know why.

b:

I'm going to assume at least one scum is on the wagon. I'll dive into that a bit later when I have time.

Is it not likely to be more than one?

From what I’ve grasped, Dann is quite an influential player and seems to be respected. Was he not one of the biggest town threats in this game and so would have been important for scum to get him out at the earliest opportunity?

We aren't looking for teams at the moment. We just need to find one scum to get things in the right direction. There is not a reason to look for more than 1 currently.

Project begins to raise some good points and question the logic of Hu Tao and the reasoning behind the scumteam's kill. Hu Tao makes this strange statement I highlighted in purple above. Looking for the team and who could be partners is surely just as important and valid as looking for single scums? Now I did some more game reading for fun earlier because nothing interesting was happening over here and hey what did I find?

Remind me who you think my partner is, Hu Tao?

I'm sure you're scum. I'll figure out the other tomorrow.

The above is from the recently finished mini normal #2322, where Hu Tao was scum. Hu Tao used the same morally questionable logic in the endgame here on Jan 30th, a day and 5 hours before applying it again here. Suspicious much?

c:

There is also a bit of a disconnect between 941 and 942 . Hu Tao's "Hmm" read on Gypyx (rather than "townie") does not seem consistent with "This seems like a town post.

Unsure why there are votes on her at the moment

". "Hmm" suggests doubt, no? Then it would not be so surpising to see people also having doubts.

d:

Maybe we should vote off the wagon. Because scum shot on the wagon which was weird, especially since it was someone not many tr. Might mean they are comfortable with us voting in it.

I don’t understand. What?

Finally, Hu Tao hasn't answered my questioning here yet. Not suspicious necessarily but I still don't understand what she was trying to say.

well damn.

VOTE: Hu Tao

Sus 1 is very good, and i guess since this game is way too static i'll try to vote there to see if this unlocks anything

Sus 2 feels more questionable and kinda reads as if you've came up with all that after formulating sus 1 and wanting to put more in your case, am i wrong?

VOTE: Hu Tao

No that's fair, I just wanted to lay down all my thoughts at once. I think sus2:b could actually be a good point, but the rest are hardly anything to go on.
Thanks for applying some pressure!

why did the moderator post that, i have avatars and usernames disabled help

[ketchup777]

2B is actually the one i disagree with the most ironically

it's very easy for scum to hide themselves in a team solve, have one misflip and "whoops guess i had it all wrong time to reevaluate" (aka : i'm free to vote the best vote for the scumteam)

later on team solves become more important as the restricted playerlist makes it easier to go by process of elimination

and anyways, consider this : scum!Hu Tao is doing this as scum cause she earnestly belives that's what town!Hu Tao would do / what she actually does as town

i think 2a is actually more interesting of a point given this kind of questions *can* come from town but generally townies who are way more engaged in the game

hmm I see
I'll bear all that in mind (:

[ketchup777]

OutWorldEr

I am looking at this from the perspective that OutWorld/Jacob/Hu Tao are scum

sus 1: Defending Jacob

So, I started off the game by pressuring Jacob. OutWorld immediately takes it upon himself to defend Jacob, first in 86 . Then he comes back a few hours later to consolidate Jacob's "It was intended to be somewhat controlling" argument in 92 by saying "Yeah Jacob's probably town". OutWorld goes on to add some slim reasoning in 107 (having been prompted by Black).

Jumping forwards a fair bit, in 888 , OutWorld

does

accuse Jacob here, but it lasts for only 31 minutes, so some kind of soft bus attempt maybe? Jacob doesn't post for a while after OutWorld switches his vote to project in 921 , and OutWorld doesn't even acknowledge Jacob in 921 .

sus 2: Defending Hu Tao

OutWorld also seems keen to defend Hu Tao. After I suggest

(highlighting it is a somewhat random suggestion)

the scenario that Jacob and Hu Tao are mafia partners, OutWorld immediately (18 minutes later) starts to ask why I am accusing Hu Tao:

-SNIP-

Hu Tao and Jacob may have had votes but they were far from the points of discussion at that time. All eyes were on bugspray. The lines of thinking and discussion at that time would've continued much the same as they did without Jacob's presence. The theory you've described here is patchwork at best.

My mind went off track when I said your bugspray townlean made no sense, disregard that.

The additional shade thrown at Hu Tao here also ruffles me, what's your read there?

I can't find who said it, but I agree with the premise that mafia are more likely to overreact to small things. The short time between my and OutWorld's posts suggests that his reply was unscripted (not discussed in scum PT) and Hu Tao seems to want to shut down his line of argument quickly in 147 , not being happy with OutWorld's mafia play directing attention towards her, maybe?:

Err. I think it's not shade. They were just giving an example

OutWorld is protective toward Hu Tao a couple more times later on, in 247 with "I think the Hu Tao push is bad" and in 695 reacting to Gypyx's joke read of Luca / Hu Tao Black, overreacting to what was (to me) a clear joke, but OutWorld was sidelined by the accusation of one of his scum buddies maybe? Post 703 certainly suggested that OutWorld had not realised Gypyx was joking, yet he later tried to downplay it in 1035 claiming he "interpreted the solve as a joke", but it definitely didn't seem like this at the time. He could have been trying to bandage an earlier blunder.

sus 3: late vote on Delta (probably my weakest point)

OutWorld suddenly switches to voting Delta in 717 , less than 4 hours before Dann was hammered. Perhaps he had planned ahead to murder Delta and wanted to make himself look good? As in, why would he have killed off someone he was generating suspicion on? {he thinks we might ask}. He had never even mentioned Delta before this point, I think. Outworld then threw a couple shades towards Delta in 732 and 735 and next thing we know Delta was dead. idk, aware this point is not very convincing. just want to thoughts dump. Maybe Outworld was ready for the delta chaos kill and wanted to end up on the right side of it. Maybe (:

Sorry for the delay, got sidetracked by life things

[ketchup777]

finally ketchup could you explain a bit more these vibes that Psyche is town? i feel like their 1128 and 1101 read pretty annoyed at actually being pointed at for "weak" reasons, which is more of a scum mindset where you're less focused around being able to solve and more like how you're looking. Yeah of course Psyche raises some fair points but that's not the question here

Hmm maybe. I think it's a bit unclear.

I like the analysis/reasoning/tone in 564, 573, 599 and 667. Also tone in general makes me smile as well as 331 and 597 being <33

[ketchup777]

Hmm I noticed that OutWorld started the Project wagon in 921 after Gypyx raised some concerns, then Hu Tao was quick to join the wagon (2h39 later) in 944 after I also joined and it started gaining momentum. They stayed there until Titus replaced in and they had to change tack.