Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[T-Bone]

Ranger (3): Save the Dragons, Doctor Drew, Naerys [E-1]
T-Bone (1): Black
Doctor Drew (3): Ranger, T-Bone, davesaz

Not Voting (2):

Black, in this hypothetical vote count, who are you hammering?

[Ranger]

Unless it's just Ranger and whomever. That's a compliment, that being able to logic your way through all of this seems like it's possible. I'd never be able to write that much convincingly.

Though I sparingly roll scum, I'm confident in my skills. They translate outside of scumgames surprisingly well. I don't go down easily regardless of alignment.

However, you've reached the same conclusion I did.

Black + Doctor Drew is my current solve.

The main reason for townreading Black is the D1 Black wagon led by usesPython, which Black voting usesPython in response. That is far from clearing in my books and Black's play has signs of being scum throughout.

[Ranger]

Naerys is willing to vote Doctor Drew.
T-Bone is presumably willing to.
davesaz is open to it.
Black allegedly has interest in the idea.

That's the entire remaining playerlist if you read STD as town.

Yes. Don't you think forcing Doctor Drew's scumbuddy to either bus or be seen as suspect for

not

putting their money where there mouth is, would be worth it?

I do.

If Doctor Drew is scum as I suspect, wagoning him does nothing but good. Either we get a scum elimination, or we go into tomorrow with the information on who was unwilling to vote Drew despite allegedly having interest to. Win-win.

[Ranger]

unless ur scum so like
bye bye argument

As I'm town, I'll be operating with the knowledge I'll flip so.

[Ranger]

Why is Black so low

Because I don't think this is Black as town, I spot signs of a Black powerwolf performance, and I think Black is scum with (usesPython) and (Doctor Drew).
Plus, I've reasons for townreading most players; Black isn't among them.

I made the minor edit of replacing the masons originally featured, yet this now applies again.

It's also a gem because it demonstrates usesPython initially was defensive of Black. usesPython demonstrated an initial defense of Black to my push, so what changed?

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{Doctor Drew, davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

I actually townread everyone from Drew above.

Why is Black so low

Are you townreading me?

You are not on our radar, you're kinda just off doing your own thing

In hindsight, the interactions between usesPython and Black were rather stilted. 462 even defended Black, and 436 stated Black was townier. Their next mention of Black was 842. They went from overall positive on Black with no scumread, defending Black, to wagoning Black.

There was no trajectory to the read, just a sudden hard swap.

[Ranger]

VOTE: usesPython
Briefly skimmed over why people are voting for me and their vote feels the worst by far. It feels like they are just trying to make any wagon possible happen instead of actually trying to catch scum

This is true, yet it also applies to Black's read on usesPython. Black demonstrated usesPython in the middle as 'good'. (Notably, this contradicted an earlier take on the same list.) Black never demonstrated a scumread on usesPython. Though she stated willingness to, she never followed through until after she was already being wagoned.

Black was making the usesPython wagon happen without trying to case aiming for scum; I believe it was because Black already knew they were, and didn't need to reach the conclusion.

I also think it's indicative of Black's play throughout the game. Black has been making wagons possible, and not trying to catch scum.

[Ranger]

Spoiler: Drew ISO

Drew's first few posts are jokes

There's an interaction with python in 86, 88 and 89 that feels strange. Python defends Drew by saying people can't scumcase him, Drew asks why not, and then python responds to him but is talking like they aren't responding to him with the whole "scumreading Drew is like a fine wine". I'm not sure why they don't say "scumreading

you

is like a fine wine." It's a weird perspective for python to have. Not super compelling partner evidence but if python was wary of interacting with their partner directly then they might have subconsciously used this verbiage

@Drew what was the townread on python in 369 about?

Drew invokes python in 377. This doesn't really feel partnered. Maybe if the plan was to interact a bunch for theatre I guess. It feels like a lot of Drew's posting is about Python around this point in the game

385 another open defense of python

391 joking with python

472 invoking python again. The amount of times Drew has talked to or mentioned python is starting to seem sus

I thought 516 was weird when I read it and I still think it's weird. Drew is completely misrepping me here, and I don't think he ever responded to me when I called him out on it

677 Drew continues his pressure on gob. I like dave's 660

@Drew what was your scumread on gob based on? I scumread him too at the time but my reasons were because of how he was interacting with my slot. I don't see any reasons for you to be suspicious of him here but maybe I'm missing it

I actually like 704 and it's the towniest post so far. It feels like Drew is thinking about the players on a deeper than surface level here

765 the threat to python to snap vote them feels bad

778 back to Gob when gob's wagon was tied 3-3 with python's. Could be scum trying to manipulate the wagons in the scum teams favor here

Drew gets pressure and switches back to Dann immediately in 786. What. This reeks of Drew knowing that going back to gob and making his wagon overtake python's was scummy

Drew's reasons for not voting python in 1216 are believable but they could still come from scum

1219 a little WIFOM here. I would like to look at Drew scumgames to see if this is actually true. Off the top of my head I know he didn't bus kyouko in a recent game together. He did try to bus StD in Wilson 7p, so there is some truth here

1272 - @Drew, does python's flip not make you feel any better about gob?

I'm not getting much in Drew's 1v1 with the monkey. Drew feels a little defensive but that's about it, probably NAI

tl;dr - Still unsure about Drew here but I have a much better feel for his slot than I did before. I would like Drew to answer some of these questions

Black has a favorable outlook on Doctor Drew as well.

[Ranger]

Kinda don't want a Drew wagon here, he's pretty easy to viberead as the game goes on and hasn't pinged us yet

This is also important. There were people floating around wagoning Doctor Drew here, and usesPython protected him.

[Ranger]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Drew was against wagoning Python here.

[Black]

Ranger (3): Save the Dragons, Doctor Drew, Naerys [E-1]
T-Bone (1): Black
Doctor Drew (3): Ranger, T-Bone, davesaz

Not Voting (2):

Black, in this hypothetical vote count, who are you hammering?

Ranger. I think both scum would be on the Drew wagon here

[Black]

Ranger if I were scum I would have already hammered you here

[Black]

In hindsight, the interactions between usesPython and Black were rather stilted. 462 even defended Black, and 436 stated Black was townier. Their next mention of Black was 842. They went from overall positive on Black with no scumread, defending Black, to wagoning Black.

There was no trajectory to the read, just a sudden hard swap.

The "hard swap" was python realizing they had the numbers to get me faded. It was pretty clearly a survivalist read

[Black]

VOTE: usesPython
Briefly skimmed over why people are voting for me and their vote feels the worst by far. It feels like they are just trying to make any wagon possible happen instead of actually trying to catch scum

This is true, yet it also applies to Black's read on usesPython. Black demonstrated usesPython in the middle as 'good'. (Notably, this contradicted an earlier take on the same list.) Black never demonstrated a scumread on usesPython

.

Though she stated willingness to, she never followed through until after she was already being wagoned.

Black was making the usesPython wagon happen without trying to case aiming for scum; I believe it was because Black already knew they were, and didn't need to reach the conclusion.

I also think it's indicative of Black's play throughout the game. Black has been making wagons possible, and not trying to catch scum.

Yeah I liked the readslist but calling it good doesn't mean it matches mine exactly. At the time I had python south of null. You are fabricating some contradiction that isn't there

I was V/LA that weekend and when I got back on Monday it was deadline time. Python had been in my PoE and they were the leading wagon so it made perfect sense to vote there, even without the self-preservation involved

Just because I've been doing a bad job of it doesn't mean I'm not trying to catch scum. This setup has been hard to adjust to and it feels like every time I blink there's a deadline coming up. On top of that I've just been busy IRL so it's been a hard game for me

[Naerys]

Ranger if I were scum I would have already hammered you here

Would you? I personally wouldnt.

[Doctor Drew]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Drew was against wagoning Python here.

Yes I was, and basically said as much on D1, and even after the lim.

I can't read them well on D1, much of what they said about reading me applies to me reading them as well.

[Doctor Drew]

Naerys is willing to vote Doctor Drew.
T-Bone is presumably willing to.
davesaz is open to it.
Black allegedly has interest in the idea.

That's the entire remaining playerlist if you read STD as town.

Yes. Don't you think forcing Doctor Drew's scumbuddy to either bus or be seen as suspect for

not

putting their money where there mouth is, would be worth it?

I do.

If Doctor Drew is scum as I suspect, wagoning him does nothing but good. Either we get a scum elimination, or we go into tomorrow with the information on who was unwilling to vote Drew despite allegedly having interest to. Win-win.

Ok now do the same thing when I flip town

[Ranger]

Ranger if I were scum I would have already hammered you here

Certainly possible.

Still doubtful. You're methodical. Quickhammering an elimination you know is going to land on town is a good way to throw away an advantage you otherwise would've had, in your perspective.

I started my Drew push while you weren't around. You wouldn't have known there was a

disadvantage

to waiting. Scum players aren't perfect and can make tactical errors.

I believe the odds you hammer me instantly as scum are not high, regardless of your alignment here.

[Ranger]

Ok now do the same thing when I flip town

I admit. If you flip town, we've already lost.

I believe the odds of a town win are higher if I push you regardless of your alignment. I happen to believe you're scum, although if it's {Naerys, Black}, you can help demonstrate it today.

[Doctor Drew]

Ok now do the same thing when I flip town

I admit. If you flip town, we've already lost.

I believe the odds of a town win are higher if I push you regardless of your alignment. I happen to believe you're scum, although if it's {Naerys, Black}, you can help demonstrate it today.

A lot of the arguments you are making for scumBlack involve the false assumption that I am scum, so for that I wouldn't be comfortable voting Black.

I still do think there is scum equity in Nae though, I could be swayed to that direction

[Save The Dragons]

unless ur scum so like
bye bye argument

As I'm town, I'll be operating with the knowledge I'll flip so.

Youre allowed to do that but you can't posit your argument as fact for everyone else because we don't know your alignment and if you are scum your argument is invalid

[T-Bone]

Have a headache today so I will prod dodge and try again tomorrow sorry all.

[Doctor Drew]

Have a headache today so I will prod dodge and try again tomorrow sorry all.

Once my new title gets approved, I could prescribe you something good for that

[Naerys]

I had a dream in which Black flipped scum,lol.

[Black]

I had a dream in which Black flipped scum,lol.

Sounds like a nightmare