guys I'm not fully caught up but OMG Luca's vote on OutWorld not getting blitzhammered means we can for sure rule out team 3.
This means the doubt is gone. If you believe in the masonry, OutWorld is scum.
In post 3395, JacksonVirgo wrote:
I'm going on a date in like 10 minutes so my response to your post will have to wait, I will try and keep it nice and concise OR spoiler it and have a TL;DR blurb about each point
In post 3395, JacksonVirgo wrote:
I'm going on a date in like 10 minutes so my response to your post will have to wait, I will try and keep it nice and concise OR spoiler it and have a TL;DR blurb about each point
bro has a different one every night
based and polyamory pilled (think that's how it's spelled at least)
In post 3403, Gypyx wrote:
Yeah but like we would have to compromise for that and this town certainely isn't
I want 100% certainty. Outworld vote gets me as close as I can be to that
And if I were to say I outright refuse to vote outworld?
I would be sad, Jackson. you know the fable where its something like theres a lion who could go for the easy prey of an asleep rabbit. But just then he spies a gazelle or smth. He runs after the gazelle but the gazelle escapes. Resigned, he goes back to get the rabbit - but the the rabbit has fleed. There is nothing left for this lion, he shouldn't have succumbed to his avarice.
ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire
> i'm not seeing the towniness in psyche, like, i would probably be less infuriated if i felt like i was being outplayed or that i could even see what's towny about Psyche, but i don't, not a single bit, and i guess the case that luca / you made anger me even more in that they're treating it as something that's plain for the eye to see while i just have no clue what i can even bring up in response cause i don't see what they're seeing
i can understeand how you're playing around your view but i just don't get how you reached it
> I came in this game with the intent of playing more confident, and yeah, one could said scummy, the fact that this is being described as *only* scummy behavior is, i hope you understeand that one, very frustrating
A lot of us not agreeing comes from us expecting and looking for different things in townies
> And simply, i'm seeing flawed logic being used on me and i'm not in the mental state to make a calm and collected answer about it i can try now but basically as i've said before there's no reason for me to play like i did around dann D1 i would know he's wrong, know he's probably not gonna regain his cred thread after a while, and *especially* know my scumbuddies (i think we're going with Hu / Outworld right now?) are not getting wagoned as a consequence of that so i can just keep getting the day goingsss
and like, while i'll try keeping this point short cause i'm feeling really bad about it, yeah, it feels like i'm being confbiased against and that sucks and i'm sorry for lashing out like this
I can only speak for myself, I do not wish to pretend that I truly understand Luca's stance on Psyche as we have barely spoke about him in the masonry. My read prior to the mass-claim existed and that may very well be influencing how I'm seeing his progression surrounding the way he claimed his red-check to some degree but all in all I fail to see why a wolf would delay really performing that gambit as much as he did, and play it off like he did.
To be more specific, I am aware that scum holding off the claim until after the mass-claim has concluded is the smarter play and I am by no means arguing it isn't but even with that in mind, he revealed his information (1816)
before
luca had claimed (1973) so this would generally tell me that his feelings were that of really wanting it to escape his lips as opposed to waiting for it to be safe to let loose the gambit. It shows he was eager, which is consistent with the behaviour before
and
after the claim with him being not super pushy or very potent about it but demanding he "gets his podium" and to ask for people's attention. His pride about the check was clear to me, and in fact mimics the feelings (albeit in my case it was more in a negative situation) I had surrounding me wanting to claim the masonry. His spongebob picture resonated with me because that was how I was feeling even at that moment, though I didn't realise that was also his intent behind it. The claim would also be conducive to some form of a "high" that be very obviously had post-claim.
I just personally fail to see how this could be viewed as scummy, I felt it was incredibly pure of heart and exactly what I would expect to happen from a general low-poster having a bombshell to drop onto the evils.
Can you rephrase this if I am understanding this wrong, but as it stands it seems like you're saying the only scummy thing that we're calling you out for is your confidence when that's pretty clearly not the case at all. I won't comment further until I get clarification as I do not wish to speak about unnecessary things but when you clarify can you tell me what part of it is frustrating, and why it's so frustrating to you?
Indeed, but this also extends to the disagreements surrounding the whole Psyche vs Gypyx perspective that Hu Tao, Ketchup and the masonry were in. I feel it's quite clear that the masonry is holding vibes to a much smaller effect than the other two who used those as a primary focus to their reads before. While ketchup is now focusing more on process of elimination based way to decide the elimination that does not remove the fact that their main style of reading people seems to be from vibes moreso than what I would consider using logical analysis. I'm by no means saying that one way is better than the other but as one side is using one way of reading (and getting one conclusion) and the other is using the other (and getting the opposite conclusion) it's clear that one of us is using the correct means of reading Gypyx and the other simply isn't and I believe I am on the right side of that and as such I would need arguments that would disprove my own to be able to realistically look to the other side and I am not getting that.
Hu Tao for instance is just labelling something as "look at this, how can you not see this as town?" which I respect that she sees it as townie but that's nowhere even close to an argument I can do anything with so I respectfully disregard it. It's things like this that make it hard for me to really talk about which side is right and wrong because usually vibe-based reads are something I cannot realistically "replicate" the thought process for because it's based on personal feelings and experience. This is not to say that I reject the idea of reading by vibe as I often do as well, but strictly only when I have no thread I can logically piece together which once I find it then that becomes the primary pin of my read.
If somebody wants to appeal directly to me, speak to me in a way that doesn't rely on feelings, vibes and the like as much as you can.
You say you aren't in a mental state to make a calm and collected answer, but that's what I need from you to really get into my read and disassemble it to find the true accuracy of it. I don't see how scum!you wouldn't play like you did surrounding end of day one, why do you say that there's no reason? What part of it, and why.
And we're going with Black and Outworld right now
Confirmation bias is always going to be something every single argument is at risk of whether it's right or wrong, that's just the way it goes. I'm always going to more likely to side with my initial thoughts than to shift to the other with any given argument but that makes the burden of proof go to you as with me personally the scale is tilted so far against you as you are in a 50/50 as my scum-read, against my town-read and (I don't wanna harp on too much about this) but your behaviour made it incredibly difficult to try and understand you and empathise with you. I've attempted quite a lot of times to make sure that I not conf-biased but it's incredibly difficult when you aren't cooperating (to put it lightly) and I do fear that if you're town that this might not be recoverable anymore.
it's not news that Psyche has struggled to get his head in this game, this is, in my opinion, strong enough of a rationale to warrant wanting to claim a 1v1 as scum, would you really be giving the same weight to his accusations? maybe you would but i think ketchup / luca would absolutely be somewhat less convinced by Psyche.
Ithink the idea of the claim in itself is very good scumplay, of course we've already discussed at length about how 1-shot watcher makes or doesn't make sense
-This role is basically the minimal ammount of info needed to provide, 1 night of watcher results, this is also in line with scum!psyche + outworld knowing something doesn't add up, they wouldn't wanna get caught by a secret investigative or something
- It is also the minimal ammount of power that can be claimed, and while i don't say it's unidicative of town, it's certainely what scum would aim towards in order to avoid scrutiny due to there being too much claimed town power
- But as we can see, it also has extremely strong impact, something that either catches scum or does nothing is, and i'm saying this as someone who loves setup tinkering : bad design
as for the claim timing sorry i'm getting kinda tired but doing my best to explain everything, i disagree that this is a weird window for scum, especially since you're forgetting that scum!psyche *needs* (hyberbole but like, i think anyone who's ever played scum would agree it's hard to back off a plan you've spent the night prepping) to claim there cause i'd even say it is the latest time window for him to do so, scum!Psyche would need the town to start off in the wrong tracks or like, at least to seriously belive her, considering he would assume that Luca is some pretty strong unclaimed TPR, the best way to trump whatever he has to say is to go now, also, reminder that scums aren't robots that play perfectly, they do unoptimal stuff,
Psyche also waited until Hu Tao claimed her actions to do so, quite unnecessary for an "eager town" as you're saying but
i guess you could say he was afraid of hu tao being scum and piling on her? idk i'm kinda not confident i have much good to say about this point
i'm not saying this is your whole case, i'm basically annoyed at this part of the thread since i'm accused for something which i'm
like, look, i'll be going through my whole thoughtprocess since i feel like that's the only thing that can do it justice
*Fake Fantasy facts ends in me not being useful for anything since i have zero cred in my reads*
*Bianco complex ends in me losing cause i basically let myself coast through the game without challenging people enough
so, the solution to that was basically to craft a more active and agressive playstyle, sorting people by getting in there and pushing them around, i think this honestly works wonders about black for whom i managed to get a correct scumread, but i didn't expect the problem of the whole game thread not being magically able to sense my thoughts and agree immediatly, so i was kinda back in "no reads cred" zone which just really killed off my motivation
the other option would be writing big and logical cases but i'll be honest that's my least fave thing about playing mafia and i really prefer when i can keep all of my posts under 1 paragraph
and since in those 2 games my towncred was pretty naturally high, i felt like doing this kind of sacrifice wasn't gonna hurt me so much in the long run cause people would still be able to see i'm obvtown by my tone (author's note : she was
not
obvtown)
so yeah, i do understeand the scumreads somewhat, but what is annoying me is how much this shit isn't working and you seem completely unable to understeand what i was aiming for, although yes, i gotta recognize that it's probably way more my fault than anything
Well, and of course this is probably not worth anything since you think i'm scum but like, my opinion is that no matter what, scum can fake thought process and actual concrete game direct if they wish to do so, but have to expand a constant effort against it, which limits how much they can reasonably do
meanwhile, i think there's a level at which scum can basically acquire town vibes very easily yes (in fact i'd say that's probably what saved about half my scumgames, but there comes a point where it goes the other way, and unless you are EXTREMELY good, there's simply no way to fake this kind of exuberating towniness, this is the territory i belive i'm in today and i hope this explaination maybe helps you try to see it in a new light
the problem is that this is very much how a lot of vibes read works, of couse you can analyse it and pick it apart, but it's hard, and especially it becomes basically meaningless, just like you can't summarize a big case in very few words like "it's obviously town !"
and honestly, look that's a point i've been wanting to make but that i'm afraid is simply not your kind of thing
kinda have no other recourse though so here goes
I think you're undersestimating how quick scum me would realize that you're not the kind of player that's gonna be won over by extreme town vibes, and while i may be bad at managing your expectations still, i would not be making it worse for like 2 days straight, this kind of behaviour either comes from me being absolutely shit at scum, me gunning for some extremely hard WIFOM, or like, me being actually convinced that you are scum and as such having no interest in entertaining the idea of making sure i have a good relationship with you (of course in the future i'll probably avoid being such a nuisance but that's kinda how i'm thinking when i'm being abusive like that)
in fact rather than spamming the game thread during my outburst i'd probably be flooding the shit out of the scum PT, or like, maybe i'd still be going at you idk, but i think i would feel more remorse and attempt to at least hold me back since like, as scum you pretty much unavoidably feel a stronger bond with your scummates than you would do as a random VT with people who are very probably town
meanwhile, just take a step back and see what Psyche is doing, like obviously i get it's probably meaningless but you gotta admit he's playing perfectly if his engame is to end up buddies with you, Psyche, while i'm not familiar with his meta, has 10k posts, i assume he knows one or two things about playing scum, while his "i'm just a little guy" behaviour clashes with my expectations, even taking outside the fact that he's a man with a job and stuff
I've explained before and i'll summarize here since i think you're not really understeanding what my point here (this is actually the last part i'm writing i just really felt a strong urge to answer confbias first)
scum wants to kill town is a good assumption yes, and even more than that, scum wants to kill scary town, but, at the TOP of all priorities, scum doesn't want to get caught being scum
so, in the context of dann's wagon, we had the following things : Dann's wagon is being pushed "by itself" cause like, let's be real a lot of townies were in on pushing that, Ketchup / Luca come to mind first, and, as the end approaches Psyche all of a sudden leaves to kind of spend the remainder of his day doing nothing productive? Like sure he's defending Dann but he isn't actually pushing fowards any alternatives, he's trying to have his cake (towncred) and eat it (have Dann die regardless)
When brought to E-1, Dann makes a streak of very towny posts, once again, hindsight is king here, scum!me would've probably realized this was the post than brang dann over the edge and maybe something else could happen today
so, yeah, i could've hammered Dann but so what, hisreadlists was completely out of whack (no scum in the scummy people), his credibility was nuked and the next wagon was very likely deltaWave for her last minute pushing of dann, which yeah admittedly very much looked scummy too
Do we agree that this looks like, REALLY bad for Psyche, espe since he really didn't do a whole lot with that being out of the wagon, same for outworld + black for what it's worth
meanwhile psyche's trajectory on dann, if i recall correctly, is him at first shading him, and as the push gained traction he actually left it, expressing a townread of Dann instead, i'm saying with confidence that this is posturing 101 and i hope you can understeand that
i could go on but i'm out of energy
the thing is, we're basically in this gamestate where both sides have very strong confbias, i'm saying this also at Hu Tao but like, this is not ending without someone giving up his reads and trusting the other basically
i'm gonna be honest i wish we could just not take my anger outburst into you reasoning, like, idk, i guess it makes sense for you but it doesn't make me feel good that i'm basically fucking up any chance i had by being a shithead, idk, can't force you, just showing you all my reasoning here
just like idk, not saying this makes me town but please don't expect my behaviour to be completely rational, wether i did it as town by basically being unsolvable or as town by completely antagonizing a townie it was a huge throw regardless and i think you're not realizing that
In post 3413, Psyche wrote:
ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire
No come on, Hu Tao has a very real chance of blocking. I am easy to go either way on the 1v1, I know I can’t speak for hu Tao, but come on! we take out world here, who’s scum vote wouldn’t help anyone, and get a free block attempt. what’s not to like
*sobs to no one listening to me*
In post 3413, Psyche wrote:
ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire
No come on, Hu Tao has a very real chance of blocking. I am easy to go either way on the 1v1, I know I can’t speak for hu Tao, but come on! we take out world here, who’s scum vote wouldn’t help anyone, and get a free block attempt. what’s not to like
*sobs to no one listening to me*
ketchup i really appreciate that you're trying to make what optimal but i think a lot of players (at least me / psyche / jackson) are being mentally spent more than reasonable by this game
In post 3413, Psyche wrote:
ughhh
so like
- it gets even harder for gypx to lose the 1v1 if another nk succeeds
- another nk succeeds because hu tao is all but hopelesssss
- i can't take another day of this
- if before this game ends the sun dies and the earth is flinged out of its orbit to freeze under an erstwhile eternal night before being absorbed into jupiter's core gypx will still be there spinning up multi-color wallposts explaining why im the scummiest thing since the british empire
No come on, Hu Tao has a very real chance of blocking. I am easy to go either way on the 1v1, I know I can’t speak for hu Tao, but come on! we take out world here, who’s scum vote wouldn’t help anyone, and get a free block attempt. what’s not to like
*sobs to no one listening to me*
ketchup i really appreciate that you're trying to make what optimal but i think a lot of players (at least me / psyche / jackson) are being mentally spent more than reasonable by this game
hello! can I tempt you on a 2 day mental break? just sign here by voting outworld
I know i haven’t broke Jackson yet but I’ll keep trying
