Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[Snow2697]

I agree that Roland's reaction to yesterday discussion was not always perfect. Looks like he accepted this himself. But I would not downgrade him from sus to scummy based on this.

Then how come you originally said you’d rather lim him over me when I was in your “scummy” read. Saying it wouldn’t get as much info makes little sense when, by your own opinion, I’m more scummy than him. You’d rather the possibility of getting out a town over someone you’re more sure is scum just because it might yield more info because of our interactions? This isn’t making much sense. Shouldn’t you want to go for the person you’re more sure is scum? I know you changed your tune after this was initially brought to your attention but why the shift? It just seems like you realized your analysis had holes in it and you needed to pivot because it was making you look suspicious.

Don't see any shift.

I said that in a 2-scum scenario I would choose between you and Not Scum. But if you or Not Scum turn town, this will not give a lot of info.

In a 3-scum scenario we need more info, so we can "consider" Roland. A lot of conflicts are centered on him. But "consider" does not mean auto-vote or lim.

Seems like no-one is arguing we have 3 scums here. So, so far it's you or Not Scum. Or me if people think that RN was too toxic.

BTW I may need to look closer at Drew - Roland. I am surprised Roland's morale is so low.

[GuyInFreezer]

There is no 3-scum scenario in a 9-players game. It’s 7:2.

[RolandOfGilead]

Right now I don't believe you are partnered with Snow

Your actions here clearly indicate otherwise. You keep on making arguments that I am, so I'm going to keep addressing those arguments and keep on convincing you of the truth until you finally get it.

so you can calm down.

Wow, is that ever the wrong thing to ever say to someone who is frustrated. Especially without giving them the space to explain their frustrations.

If you thought someone else would put them at E-1 then you would miss out on the valuable towncred.

I didn't, and the fact that both GuyInFreezer and KayJayQueue immediately said "whoa, let's maybe not do that, yeah?" proves that I was right to assume that I was the only one who was probably going to be putting him at E-1 in that case. I was well aware that Not Mafia could cast the hammer vote in that moment, and I didn't care, because at that moment he seemed like the best choice to me.

As I said, I thought it indicated that you most likely weren't partners, but when you then switch and vote Not_Mafia after my defence of Snow, then understand that from my perspective you could have taken a calculated gamble in doing what you did, which would explain your frustration at being suspected of being partners with Snow despite the gamble having paid off.

How on earth can I gamble on the prospect of someone else suddenly coming in and making a case on why I should not vote for Solon as my out? How on earth could I count on that happening? When you posted when you did, you hadn't said anything for the past 13 hours, and you have habitually just vanished for indeterminate stretches of time, and you are seriously arguing that part of my gamble was made in the hopes that you would show up and say "hey let's maybe not vote Snow" as my recourse to back off this vote? I mean this theory is just straight-up terrible.

I have seen examples of scum bussing in much more unlikely situations than this.

I'm sorry but I just do not believe you. Show me one. Show me a more unlikely situation, especially one in which the decision actually made some tactical sense.

[RolandOfGilead]

Holy shit I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get this site to put a single space between quote and text.

[DragonEater70]

This is a reminder to avoid speculation and discussion about other users' rulebreaks and about moderator action, as such discussion and speculation is against the rules. Action may be taken if such discussion continues.

[RolandOfGilead]

If that's how you want to frame it, sure.

It's 1 am here, I sure hope that leaving my scum partner at 1 vote while I go unconscious for 7 hours and while another guy who has strongly implied he will finish snow off is around here and likely to pull the trigger does not somehow go terribly wrong!

You do need some help with math

Can you not be rude and just tell me what I supposedly got wrong?

You got the math wrong just as you pointed out how I had a spelling mistake

When a person says "you need help with math", they are making it personal when they insert the "you". My comment was on the comment; yours is about me, the person sitting in the Roland slot.

I apologize for what I said earlier when I said you, in particular, should be embarrassed about me flipping scum as I clearly crossed the line there. It's just you have done so too at this point.

[RolandOfGilead]

The more I think about it, the more I kinda want to be the one who gets limmed today.

I keep thinking about why Drew would want to focus so hard on one person, since if he actually got his way and I was eliminated, when I flip town, he's obviously going to look real bad. How does he deal with that? But, in this micro game, you only get two mis-eliminations, and then the next is a scum victory. He clearly seems to be queueing me up for a day TWO elimination, especially when he says stuff like

As I stated, I always hate limming a lurker on D1, but the way RN popped into the thread was bad(and thinking about it more, mention Hu Tao could definitely have been a dumb tell), so I was definitely ok with him being the lim. Snow actually has out effort in at least, but I am always weary when someone really towns it up when they repp in, so I am still fine with an RN lim.

I don't like limming NM, but I definitely get it, if it were a bigger game I would be totally fine with it, but would hate basically a policy lim taking out a townie in a game this size.

Problem is, I am still ok with a Roland lim, but am definitely in the minority there lol.

And GiF still is pinging me weird, but not sure I could(or even would want to) push them at this point.

Basically I am reluctantly fine with the lime being snow or NM

So there's a big part of me that wants to upset the order of things in which he wants them to happen and immediately force you all to redirect your energies to more useful places.

VOTE: Roland

[RolandOfGilead]

Oh, to follow that thought to completion, his game plan is then, day 1, just get some easy lurky target, day 2, get this person he's been pressing all game long, and then on the final day, he probably figures that's intense no matter what and so even if he's put himself in a tight spot, he knows how to fight. Or at the very worst, he goes down, but he knows he's got a teammate left anyway and they should be fine.

If he's scum, I've messed up his plan something grand, and if he's town, this immediately restores his energies to more fruitful places, so I'm all in favor of this.

[Solon]

You're having a temper tantrum. Take a break from the game and come back tomorrow renewed and refreshed.

I do more strongly believe you're town now anyways, so rest assured in that knowledge.

[Snow2697]

@Kay - do you see Roland-Drew conflict as TvT?

[RolandOfGilead]

You're having a temper tantrum. Take a break from the game and come back tomorrow renewed and refreshed.

That is both incredibly condescending and false.

This is a tactical decision on my part. As I explained, my elimination helps town either way, either by putting the pressure on who I think is scum or by redirecting efforts to be more useful.

[Solon]

You're having a temper tantrum. Take a break from the game and come back tomorrow renewed and refreshed.

That is both incredibly condescending and false.

This is a tactical decision on my part. As I explained, my elimination helps town either way, either by putting the pressure on who I think is scum or by redirecting efforts to be more useful.

It would be more useful if you didn't resist my efforts to redirect onto a player who might actually flip scum.

[RolandOfGilead]

Right now I don't believe you are partnered with Snow

Your actions here clearly indicate otherwise. You keep on making arguments that I am, so I'm going to keep addressing those arguments and keep on convincing you of the truth until you finally get it.

so you can calm down.

Wow, is that ever the wrong thing to ever say to someone who is frustrated. Especially without giving them the space to explain their frustrations.

If you thought someone else would put them at E-1 then you would miss out on the valuable towncred.

I didn't, and the fact that both GuyInFreezer and KayJayQueue immediately said "whoa, let's maybe not do that, yeah?" proves that I was right to assume that I was the only one who was probably going to be putting him at E-1 in that case. I was well aware that Not Mafia could cast the hammer vote in that moment, and I didn't care, because at that moment he seemed like the best choice to me.

As I said, I thought it indicated that you most likely weren't partners, but when you then switch and vote Not_Mafia after my defence of Snow, then understand that from my perspective you could have taken a calculated gamble in doing what you did, which would explain your frustration at being suspected of being partners with Snow despite the gamble having paid off.

How on earth can I gamble on the prospect of someone else suddenly coming in and making a case on why I should not vote for Solon as my out? How on earth could I count on that happening? When you posted when you did, you hadn't said anything for the past 13 hours, and you have habitually just vanished for indeterminate stretches of time, and you are seriously arguing that part of my gamble was made in the hopes that you would show up and say "hey let's maybe not vote Snow" as my recourse to back off this vote? I mean this theory is just straight-up terrible.

I have seen examples of scum bussing in much more unlikely situations than this.

I'm sorry but I just do not believe you. Show me one. Show me a more unlikely situation, especially one in which the decision actually made some tactical sense.

@Solon

Are you going to address any of this?

[RolandOfGilead]

You're having a temper tantrum. Take a break from the game and come back tomorrow renewed and refreshed.

That is both incredibly condescending and false.

This is a tactical decision on my part. As I explained, my elimination helps town either way, either by putting the pressure on who I think is scum or by redirecting efforts to be more useful.

It would be more useful if you didn't resist my efforts to redirect onto a player who might actually flip scum.

I disagree. I think my own flip is more useful.

[GuyInFreezer]

By advocating a self elimination, you are:

1. Muddying your own wagon’s analysis value by giving scum an excuse to jump on your wagon

2. Muddying the day time by giving scum an easy thing to post while looking active (Bruh don’t self vote don’t give up <3 )

3. Committing the one of the cardinal sins in Mafiascum dot net, which is assuming that others will not be dumb and win the game for you.

4. Burning our one of only two chance to be wrong on someone that you know it’s wrong. (Let’s say we lim N_M and he flips town. Now what?)

5. Reducing your credibility after your flip (not quite the Gob level, but would you have listened to his reads seriously if he self voted and got himself eliminated?)

6. You have effectively claimed your role to scumteam

[RolandOfGilead]

Fair enough.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Snow2697]

I see Roland's point that Drew can be prepping a big push on him on D2.
As a matter of principle I can also see town!Roland believing that Drew is scum and thinking that he should sacrifice himself to direct town to Drew.
But why not just play against Drew and vote him?

[Thomith]

RolandOfGilead has requested replacement.

[Thomith]

-

[Solon]

Roland will regret that. He should have taken my advice and had a break from the game. It can get a bit too intense at times.

[Solon]

I regard the chances of scum replacing out in such a fashion as zero, so we effectively have a conftown at least.

[KayJayQueue]

@Kay - do you see Roland-Drew conflict as TvT?

Yes. But I don’t know why my opinion matters if I’m scum to you, unless you’re going to try to implicate one or the other as my “partner”. Then we’re really fucked as a town.

[KayJayQueue]

Ugh this is really unfortunate.

[Thomith]

Malachai has replaced RolandOfGilead

[Malachai]

Greetings, everyone. I have plenty of time today to catch up, so, catch up I shall!