Micro Normal 1100 | Game Over

[GuyInFreezer]

isn't his first language, rather.

[Thomith]

Votecount 1.15

Votecount 1.15

Not_Mafia (3):

Solon, JacksonVirgo, Doctor Drew

E-2

Snow2697 (3):

FancyPants, Malachai, KayJayQueue

E-2

Solon (1):

Snow2697

Doctor Drew (1):

Not_Mafia

Not Voting (1):

GuyInFreezer

With 9 Alive, it takes 5 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-03-13 05:56:04)

Mod Notes

None

[Malachai]

I also just straight-up don't like him refusing to play to his win condition and taking the role of mod. It's the mod's job to remove a player if they are breaking the rules. Solon is still here, so we can safely conclude that the mod determined that he did not break any rules and thus Solon should not be knocked out of this game. He's using that whole situation as an excuse to not contribute meaningfully to this game and to be useful as town.

He's going to accuse me of "double standards" so I'll go ahead and say Solon was wrong to ask the mod to do something about Not Mafia.

So there you go, my stance is in full alignment, and I can safely declare that since not mafia is still in the game, the mod decided not mafia isn't breaking rules, so Solon should give it a rest. And by the exact same logic, since solon is still in the game, the mod decided that Solon isn't breaking rules, so snow should give it a rest.

[GuyInFreezer]

Yeah those things should be discussed in post-game.

[Malachai]

I honestly think it's some sort of language barrier affecting that. Because tone-wise it looks to me like none of y'all are trying to fake stuff. And Snow did say that English isn't his second language. And looking at the way he dealt with Solon, he looks like he's the type to get distracted by shiny things (or love diverting towards shiny things, if scum). As I said, I can't really explain exactly what's going on with his head, but I don't think, at the very least, he's lying about what he believes he said.

I don't think he's lying, either. It's the WHY behind it all that makes him look so scummy to me.

[Malachai]

Yeah those things should be discussed in post-game.

His vote is on Solon RIGHT NOW. This can't wait for postgame.

[GuyInFreezer]

But let me do say this, though.
Mafiascum defines "game-throwing" as something direct, such as claiming scum with buddies' name, quoting role PM, etc. The rest is considered bad play, and mods shouldn't really punish bad plays because

I'd be the first one on the chopping block

we don't know exactly what's going on in each players' head. For an example, Not_Mafia just could be a PR trying to set himself as a low-priority target. It's a hilariously bad play, but it's not really throwing, you see. So instead of trying to case-by-case each players (who wants to read Mafia games they're not in, especially when they're working as volunteers?), Mafiascum promotes blacklist system that a lot of game-mods adopted, such as WotM (Wisdom of the Many, or Wisdom of the Mod), or blacklist.

[Malachai]

He also said outright that he townreads Solon. So if Snow is town, that means he is actively trying to kill a townie, as town, in direct violation of his win condition, because he thinks it's his job to moderate this game instead of the moderator's job.

I'm sorry to bring it up and I'm risking getting myself in trouble by saying it, but I really don't see what other option I have here when he is actually voting to kill off a townie, purportedly as a townie himself. I believe 100% that voting for someone you townread could be accurately described as "bad play".

If we want to drop all of this once and for all, he should drop this vote and put it on someone he actually scumreads. But while he's got his vote on a townie, I think it's absolutely fair game to be discussed and SHOULD be discussed.

[Malachai]

FWIW I legitimately scumread Not Mafia when I voted for him.

[Malachai]

Oh you were saying "bad play" in a different way, I see.

I can very easily argue that voting for someone you townread is game-throwing.

[Malachai]

I mean NOBODY should be okay with his vote. He's voting for a guy he townreads. Is that not a problem in some way? Does that not go beyond simply "not being that good at mafia"?

I'm not asking for any moderation action; I'm asking snow to make his vote useful and convincing you all to help me encourage him to do so.

[GuyInFreezer]

Aaaaaaand my power went out.
Back to phone posting

[GuyInFreezer]

Policy vote isnt technically a throw (it is indeed detrimental if multiple people are doing it though), but Snow, all of your problem is solved by voting Not_Mafia. Don’t you scumread him?

[Malachai]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

[Malachai]

Snow, all of your problem is solved by voting Not_Mafia.

I don't think he'd see it that way. If not mafia is gone, this "rulebreaking" Solon fellow is still in the game, right?

[GuyInFreezer]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

A vote purely decided by their opinion that the removal of a certain player is helpful towards the town win condition, despite the probability of mis-elimination.

[GuyInFreezer]

It used to be lot more frequent back then (and by back then I mean like pre-2010) but nowadays people know better and pretend that they just scumread them without saying the quiet part out loud.

[Malachai]

What, exactly, is meant by "policy vote"? I see this term used a lot this game.

A vote purely decided by their opinion that the removal of a certain player is helpful towards the town win condition, despite the probability of mis-elimination.

Okay. I don't think Snow's vote here could be classified as a "policy vote", then, since he doesn't seem to think Solon is actually working against our win condition, Snow just thinks that Solon is not following site rules, and Snow is taking it upon himself to act as moderator. He clearly shouldn't be doing that.

[GuyInFreezer]

No, he shouldn’t.

This game has been hella weird, and out of my 10+ years of playing on this site, I’ve never seen a game like this ever lol

[JacksonVirgo]

No, he shouldn’t.

This game has been hella weird, and out of my 10+ years of playing on this site, I’ve never seen a game like this ever lol

Literally

[Malachai]

No, he shouldn’t.

This game has been hella weird, and out of my 10+ years of playing on this site, I’ve never seen a game like this ever lol

Like, how so?

[GuyInFreezer]

There are always that one person tripping
But not in this mass scale

[Not_Mafia]

Btw I thought I was going to be fine with eliminating N_M, but I keep getting cold feet over the fact that nobody actively tried to interact with N_M when he actually gave responses when asked.

That's not true. When he gave his reads, I asked him to explain them, and he pretty much just told me "no".

I responded to GiF because he asked good and relevant question, not just “YoU nEeD tO eXpLaIn YoUr ReAdS”

[Doctor Drew]

I actually think NM actually is scum here, there is definitely a sense of panic from them.

And this is definitely the most I have seen them actually play the game(the irony given the controversy surrounding him lol)

[Snow2697]

Good. Dust seems to settle a bit.

There is merit in GiF-Malachai exchange and critique of my Solon's vote. I took this risk when I voted him. You can query "why is Snow voting Solon who he thinks is town". Though you can equally query "why town!Solon not just retract and apologize if Snow's vote is such a big deal. And if it is not, why keep jumping on Snow?" Overall I think my vote vs Solon has made its point, so I would change it.

Re Fancy. I wrote that "I expected more substance and attention from Fancy" as a comment on his summary post. "More" does not mean there has been "none". It just means that I expected "more" than I saw. If Fancy takes issue with this comment, I apologize. I then gave a number of specific observations. That's it. At no time did I say that Fancy is scum or that his contribution is meaningless. To the contrary, I made a reservation several times that my set up was subject to me seeing his thoughts, since even if I disagree with them, they are useful for me. I still see him as town. His position on me does not change this. His set up is pretty much like mine, save for a couple of positions. If Fancy has any questions, I will answer them.

Don't think that I can be accused of not contributing. I shared my thoughts on the set up. Having reviewed Fancy's input, I sent out lim options as per Jackson's request in my 1282:

"Jackson - my 3 lim options are Drew (sus)- Kay (scummy) - N_M (floating between grey and unclear now) in this order. I'm voting Solon for reasons explained. If the Solon issue is resolved, I will vote Drew and stay there."

VOTE: Doctor Drew