Open 906: AAAAAAHHHH I Ran out of Game Names!!! [Game Over]

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

my horrorscope told me to watch out for virgos.

(also hi i'm new)

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

my horrorscope told me to watch out for virgos.

(also hi i'm new)

Welcome! I think it's pretty cool that you rolled scum in your first game

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

my horrorscope told me to watch out for virgos.

(also hi i'm new)

Astrology lost me my last game but I’ll welcome it here since it seems pretty good at catching scum lol

astrology isn't real. sus.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: black

I don't like people who named after colors

Also hi!!

Counter offer: we form a color alliance instead

If I gaslight you enough that Virgo is actually a colour can I join

Real colors only sorry

black's not a colour. sus.

[halfasleep]

i'm pretty sure black is a color

colour is variation in the spectrum of reflected light. black is the absence of light. scum caught in their lies already smh.

[halfasleep]

I don't blame halfasleep for trying to break up the alliance already. Scum don't want townies to find each other

obvious attempt at deflection. clearly what you have to resort to when you can't reflect light

[halfasleep]

[float][/float]

halfasleep do you have any prior experience playing mafia

only simple games in person. never on a forum or online in general.

[halfasleep]

halfasleep I love your avatar so much. I have two cats Luna and Artemis and they are named after Sailor Moon

I just wanted to say that real quick. Carry on

[halfasleep]

VOTE: awesomeming327

the memeing could be slightly more awesome tbh. voting intended as encouragement.

[halfasleep]

gamers do yall think jake voting purple is scum-motivated or not

The comment before the vote makes it seem like an excuse for jumping on a bus (that was only 2 votes at the time, so not even a bus)

Bad answer
VOTE: KayJayQueue

The correct answer is:
3rd vote scum theorem

weird post. what does this mean?

[halfasleep]

gamers do yall think jake voting purple is scum-motivated or not

The comment before the vote makes it seem like an excuse for jumping on a bus (that was only 2 votes at the time, so not even a bus)

Bad answer
VOTE: KayJayQueue

The correct answer is:
3rd vote scum theorem

weird post. what does this mean?

It means that it was a bad answer and the correct answer is 3rd vote scum theorem.

oh okay that clears things up

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JupiterXV

weird to piggyback off what awesomeming is saying without adding anything yourself. can't tell if partnered or just opportunism.

[halfasleep]

it's not that i thought an uncontextualised vote is inherently suspect, the timing in relation to other posts just seemed a bit off to me. especially when it's in alignment with what my current prime suspect is saying.

[halfasleep]

it's not that i thought an uncontextualised vote is inherently suspect, the timing in relation to other posts just seemed a bit off to me. especially when it's in alignment with what my current prime suspect is saying.

This is just my 30 minutes to do shit on my phone before going back to work. I was posting in all my active areas of the forum during this time. And I’m about to be back to work in a minute; I’ll be posting again in like 3 hours.

sure, i wasn't really speculating based on your irl schedule. i meant 'timing' more in the sense of where the state of conversation in the thread was than the actual time of day. we're obviously all operating on different availability and time zones i wouldn't want to be read based on that either.

though i will say this feels a little too defensive a response to a pretty minor aspersion. i'm sorry if you're frustrated irl and i'm being annoying but i can only play the game based on what's posted in the thread. fwiw i wanted to make the game move a bit too that's why i replied to you.

[halfasleep]

'spamming' seems like a stretch to me anyways. nobody's really been all that 'game-advancing' so far jupiter's posts don't really stand out me in that respect.

[halfasleep]

page

bottom

top

finally some valuable townposting

[halfasleep]

VOTE: Jake (ming kay jake)

soft agree on ming and kay but jake looks more like unengaged town to my very untrained eye

[halfasleep]

'what does poe stand for?' guess list:

prism of evil
pot of enemies
pillar of euphoria
pouting over everything
post our experiences
post or exit

[halfasleep]

'what does poe stand for?' guess list:

prism of evil
pot of enemies
pillar of euphoria
pouting over everything
post our experiences
post or exit

I’ll throw a guess on the pile:

Prosecute Over Everything

oh that's better than any of mine nice one

[halfasleep]

it means post or eliminate
basically if you are in the POE and you do not post then you will be eliminated
it is a strategy against scum who intentionally post very infrequently to not attract attention (i.e. coasters)

gotcha good to know. doesn't really seem like jupiter's list is prioritising the lurkiest players though so i'm not sure if that's the strategy there.

[halfasleep]

oops
anyway jupiter is scum

BOOOOO tomato tomato tomato
AFTER ALL WE'VE GONE THROUGH..... our brotherhood.... was all our camaraderie for naught.....

top ten anime betrayals..... ming you cant be doing this to me......

calling these jokey-ass posts 'appeals to emotion' (i assume that's what we mean here) just looks like scum opportunism tbh. would town really take these seriously?

[halfasleep]

I do not think you know what opportunism is.

ok well i guess i'd define opportunism in the context of this game as scum looking for excuses in town-players posts to pretend to scumread them for. obviously it's hard to sort that from just 'opinion i disagree with' it's just based on how real the thought process looks to me. you could just say i'm wrong without rudely suggesting i don't understand the words i'm using.

[halfasleep]

Also if you have reads based on any better evidence I'd love to hear it... or do you just want to stay in RVS forever? Discouraging early reads is one of the most unhealthy playstyles possible

i didn't think we were still in RVS even if the game is a little slow. and i'm not discouraging early reads. i don't think i'm being subtle at all about who i'm currently scumreading lol

[halfasleep]

i'm writing the post atm

[halfasleep]

here you go ming

SCUM-ISH:

awesomeming327:

honestly a mainly vibes-based read but tbh the vibes are off. a high-handed attitude, 'scumreading' players based on jokes or failing arbitrary tests, gives the impression that he wants to steer the direction of the game but none of his thoughts look real to me sorry.

KayJayQueue:

much softer read than above but got bad vibes from her defensive attitude when i poked her a little. that poke was based on her vote looking like it was following ming's opinion but my gut is saying they're probably not partnered so i'm doubting this a lot even as i type it lol.

NEUTRAL:

JupiterXV:

iso looks surprisingly good despite the number of filler/joke posts. every post engaging with the game looks pretty reasonable to me. might just be biased though since we seem to share some reads so bleh.

fireisredsir:

i got absolutely nothing here. post more imo.

JacksonVirgo:

same as above

Purplemango:

same as above times two. please post, people.

TOWN-ISH:

Jake The Wolfie:

i find his (thus far) non-contributing posting style irritating but i think he looks more like town playing his own game and keeping his cards hidden while not caring if he's annoying anyone, than scum just trying to be unhelpful.

Black:

hasn't said all that much yet but all her posts look good to me. every post after RVS have been pretty solid questions that look like sincere attempts to poke reactions out of them to read them better. also she went for me in RVS which is great because i love attention. heavily biased townread.

[halfasleep]

i agree that making correct assumptions is healthy for the game.

[halfasleep]

now me personally, I woulda given some kind of acknowledgement of receiving the post I asked someone for but hey

[halfasleep]

TOWN-ISH:

Jake The Wolfie:

i find his (thus far) non-contributing posting style irritating but i think he looks more like town playing his own game and keeping his cards hidden while not caring if he's annoying anyone, than scum just trying to be unhelpful.

Black:

hasn't said all that much yet but all her posts look good to me. every post after RVS have been pretty solid questions that look like sincere attempts to poke reactions out of them to read them better. also she went for me in RVS which is great because i love attention. heavily biased townread.

What makes you think jake is more town then scum?
After all, you specifically put him in town-ish and not neutral
There's a chance it's his normal way of playing, but it's still pretty weird to me He has the option to keep his information to himself for now, and still participate more actively/ seriously in the game

I'll go read his previous games to understand better and that

it's vibes, mainly. i'm not an experienced player and don't have any past-game knowledge behind any of my reads it's just my own feelings.

anyway welcome back to the thread. nice to hear from you finally :P

[halfasleep]

well, i'd definitely appreciate you explaining your tells that'd give me an easier time reading you for sure.

[halfasleep]

I also don't understand all of this info talk surrounding me. Am I giving off PR vibes?

i think only purple is saying that. and that might just be him misreading my post he's replying to. in which (i hope it was clear) i meant i didn't think you wanted to share your reads on the game.

i'm not speculating on PRs currently. i don't know how to look for that and it doesn't seem to me that doing so is particularly in town's interest.

[halfasleep]

I think it's a little odd he'd suggest I was following him on ming and kay considering i'm pretty sure I was getting on both their cases before he posted that list. but broadly I think his thoughts look plausibly real to me i don't think he's just trying to hide in jackson's shadow here.

[halfasleep]

and for what it's worth the difference between jake and jupiter isn't evidence-based or anything. different people give different vibes doing similar things i don't know what to tell you

[halfasleep]

Sad. I think Jups logic is wrong but I love the spirit. My thing with halfasleep is that that they post a bunch of reasoning, formatted and everything and when questioned about it further they then use their experience as a sort of buffer. They didn’t seem too worried about it before then. I can expand further but I’m walking as I type and don’t wanna smack into someone

i don't think it's terribly contradictary to be very engaged in my first game and also not confident in my thoughts. i mainly made the effortpost hoping to attract better players back to the thread with more useful posts. figured it would be fine even if i was being loudly wrong of it moved the game. it, uh, kinda worked i think?

[halfasleep]

i think i like jupiter's claimed reasons to scumread me better than jackson's right now, but i'm happy to hear now on the subject.

[halfasleep]

Looking at this readlist, your reasons are not much stronger than mine were. Almost every single one of these is bordering on gutread.

you don't have to say 'bordering' they basically are gutreads. and i didn't call your reasoning weak i called it fake and i think you're pretending not to know that. and yes, that's a gutread too sue me.

[halfasleep]

The reads definitely feel a little forced, like she made them only because I told her to.

i did in fact write a post of my reads in response to you asking for my reads. good analysis

[halfasleep]

Looking at this readlist, your reasons are not much stronger than mine were. Almost every single one of these is bordering on gutread.

you don't have to say 'bordering' they basically are gutreads. and i didn't call your reasoning weak i called it fake and i think you're pretending not to know that. and yes, that's a gutread too sue me.

?????????????????????????
VOTE: halfasleep
You do not need to die on this hill lmao

i don't think blind tit-for-tat is a particularly effective way to play this game but live your truth i guess

[halfasleep]

calling these jokey-ass posts 'appeals to emotion' (i assume that's what we mean here) just looks like scum opportunism tbh. would town really take these seriously?

ok well i guess i'd define opportunism in the context of this game as

scum looking for excuses in town-players posts to pretend to scumread them

for. obviously it's hard to sort that from just 'opinion i disagree with' it's just

based on how real the thought process looks to me

. you could just say i'm wrong without rudely suggesting i don't understand the words i'm using.

awesomeming327:

honestly a mainly vibes-based read but tbh the vibes are off. a high-handed attitude, 'scumreading' players based on jokes or failing arbitrary tests, gives the impression that he wants to steer the direction of the game but

none of his thoughts look real to me

sorry.

Looking at this readlist, your reasons are not much stronger than mine were. Almost every single one of these is bordering on gutread.

sorry i'm struggling to see how you'd misread these posts as just calling your reads bad. i've been clear multiple times about how your posts look to me and i don't think it's crazy of me to conclude that you're deliberately ignoring what i'm actually saying. i don't think you're being honest in the way you're engaging with me here and i'm sorry if that's tilting you i guess.

[halfasleep]

I did not misread the posts. You clearly implied that my read was bad. Your entire argument was based on the fact that you think that the posts I pointed out were not deserving of a scumread. If you do not agree on that premise that my read was bad your entire argument literally falls apart. I am not deliberately ignoring what you are saying and you need to stop saying that, it’s not healthy for discussion and it’s annoying me.

ok, i see what you're saying in that you're right that i don't agree that that jupiter post was a reasonable basis for a scumread. i do still think there's a meaningful distinction between 'i don't believe this' and 'i don't believe that you believe this' and i do think that you get that. the world where you really took jupiter's joking as sincere 'appeal to emotion' is just too far from any reality i understand to imagine, but i recognise that is probably very frustrating if you are sincere. last sentence here is bad though. telling me that i

need

to change my line of argument just because it annoys you isn't ate? i thought you didn't like ate?

That said, I cannot attack your reasoning that my read seemed not genuine without first addressing the underlying assumption that the read was bad. Also, my post was most definitely not opportunist in any way. I was not taking advantage of the

opportunity that the AtE gave me

, I was simply trying to move discussion to a more productive place by making the best read I could come up with on the spot.

you're really gonna keep calling it that huh

The entire thing with making you post reads is to show how difficult is it to make a good early read and the importance of not accusing the first read that comes up of being scum trying to “steer” and rather as a chance to get out of RVS.

i wanna agree with this in principle but i don't think getting your thoughts out the gate first should exempt them from scrutiny. and honestly i still feel okay about my scumread on you rn. i probably did go too far in accusing of bad faith argument as much as i did so apologies if i'm wrong about that. i still don't feel like i'm wrong about your alignment though.

[halfasleep]

yeah i was gonna say this disagreement isn't really about defending you at all. i was pretty neutral on you at that point the thread. (leaning towards a townread now fwiw because i broadly believe your reasons for scumreading me)

[halfasleep]

ok. i don't really have anything to add so unless you do that seems like a reasonable place to let the argument drop for now. i don't think i'm changing my read or my vote rn but i don't want to be tunnel-visioned on you all day.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: kayjayqueue

i think kay has done alignment indicative things

i feel like you could elaborate on this sometime

[halfasleep]

(still e-1)

on who?

[halfasleep]

fair enough

[halfasleep]

fwiw it's worth i read jake's vote more as pressuring me to talk more than a strict scumread

[halfasleep]

oh for the love of

[halfasleep]

why would you do that there's just under a week left in d1 this is so stupid

[halfasleep]

fuck off dude

[halfasleep]

maybe i'm just a stupid newbie who doesn't understand your big brain strats but in what scenario on what planet in e-1ing yourself not completely asinine gameplay?

[halfasleep]

*is

[halfasleep]

i'm a little tilted i'm ngl so i'm gonna walk away for now. i'll talk to y'all tomorrow (for me)

[halfasleep]

well more than a little. anyway g'night

[halfasleep]

jake's scum here because he knows that we don't take him up on his offer to lim him

he has nothing to gain from putting himself at e-1 so early asides from getting votes off of him

maybe i'm just a stupid newbie who doesn't understand your big brain strats but in what scenario on what planet in e-1ing yourself not completely asinine gameplay?

I will forgive your sins and insults against me, and provide some insight:

By putting myself at e-1, I was testing the reactions of everyone around me. The nominal example of this would be Ming, as she was who I was talking directly to. However, like colliding high-energy particles together, the main interest was the sparks after the collision. It clearly and effectively caused people to respond in Alignment-Indicative (AI) ways.

Take Black's response, for example:

VOTE: JakeTheWolfie

If that is an unsatisfactory response, you have the authority to execute me now.

Can we fade this

She was willing to execute me, immediately. Why? As you said, we still had a week left in the game, so executing me would've wasted a lot of time and just be a bad idea in general.

Hope this helps!

VOTE: Black

yeah i think i find the simpler explanation more convincing here sorry jake

VOTE: Jake The Wolfie

[halfasleep]

VOTE: halfasleep

I’ll explain more in depth later, I’m working. I know they’re not me but their actions are reminding me of my own tells as a wolf.

Elaboration coming soon

Sad. I think Jups logic is wrong but I love the spirit. My thing with halfasleep is that that they post a bunch of reasoning, formatted and everything and when questioned about it further they then use their experience as a sort of buffer. They didn’t seem too worried about it before then.

I can expand further but

I’m walking as I type and don’t wanna smack into someone

I wanna think on that

i accept that you probably are busy irl but this sorta seems you consistently avoiding more substansive contributions with promises and can-kicking. i'm concerned because it's doing a good job of influencing me to not bother thinking about you until you come back with whatever you're going to come back with. i don't like that feeling.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

Who wants to ride the Jackson train? Now that Fire mentions it, this play reminds me of the last time I played with him.

immediate kneejerk to being called partnered?

[halfasleep]

alright. i hope you will at some point.

[halfasleep]

Sleepy, let's move away from my favorite topic to discuss (me) and talk about other people.

What do you think of Jupiter / Ming's responses to my actions?

checked out fine to me. didn't i already say i'm inclined to agree with jupiter's interprestation of your self-vote? it's an interesting reframe to make the conversation about those two player's reactions when they're the ones you were reacting to (ming's questions and jupiter's scumread) when you self-voted.

[halfasleep]

btw purplemango i have a response in the works but i also have work i have to do that is also in the works

that being said i would like to see this promised post from jupiter too, in the interest of fairness if we're talking about stuff being kicked down the road.

[halfasleep]

more posts from purplemango would also be nice i have no idea how to read the lurkier players

[halfasleep]

Sleepy, let's move away from my favorite topic to discuss (me) and talk about other people.

What do you think of Jupiter / Ming's responses to my actions?

checked out fine to me. didn't i already say i'm inclined to agree with jupiter's interprestation of your self-vote? it's an interesting reframe to make the conversation about those two player's reactions when they're the ones you were reacting to (ming's questions and jupiter's scumread) when you self-voted.

Refering to Jupiter specifically, do you agree with their assessment that I was blatantly misinterpreting Black?

no, i don't think i do entirely agree with that. there's multiple potentially valid interpretations of any player's posts. it's more important to me that i think jupiter believed it when he said it. asking whether i agree rather than believe it is more of a question about you than about jupiter, no? i thought we were changing the topic :P

[halfasleep]

Sleepy, let's move away from my favorite topic to discuss (me) and talk about other people.

What do you think of Jupiter / Ming's responses to my actions?

checked out fine to me. didn't i already say i'm inclined to agree with jupiter's interprestation of your self-vote? it's an interesting reframe to make the conversation about those two player's reactions when they're the ones you were reacting to (ming's questions and jupiter's scumread) when you self-voted.

Refering to Jupiter specifically, do you agree with their assessment that I was blatantly misinterpreting Black?

no, i don't think i do entirely agree with that. there's multiple potentially valid interpretations of any player's posts. it's more important to me that i think jupiter believed it when he said it. asking whether i agree rather than believe it is more of a question about you than about jupiter, no? i thought we were changing the topic

That's (Jupiter believing what he was saying) a very good point. Thank you.

Going on to Ming, what do you think of him not seeing any of what I've claimed to see?

I think your entire argument makes no sense. Black was saying that she wanted to hang you but just not yet and I do not understand how anyone can interpret that differently.

this? i don't think i place much significance on it tbh. reads more as annoyance with you - which i'm obviously not going to take issue with - rather than an engaged disagreement. non-indicative imo.

[halfasleep]

maybe. it doesn't really shift my read one way or the other.

[halfasleep]

i guess the fuller answer here is: i can't tell. it depends on his alignment which, while i obviously have some opinions on, i don't think is really telling in this particular post.

[halfasleep]

did you vote for me yesterday without reading a single post i made? why only bother engage to with me after i've voted for you?

[halfasleep]

did you vote for me yesterday without reading a single post i made? why only bother englage to with me after i've voted for you?

Sleepy, I am directly asking you because if I don't, then I will be accused of blatantly misinterpreting what you're saying.

read my iso. i'm intentionally not relitigating my scumread on ming because i'm trying to avoid tunnelling on him. i'm also becoming increasingly convinced that it's unproductive to keep engaging with you.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: Black

say more?

[halfasleep]

VOTE: Black

say more?

I think scum is hiding behind this Jake-sized red herring so I’m venturing out to find them.

that's reasonable. carry on.

[halfasleep]

thoughts on purplemango: think theyre partnered w jake because the way they questioned jake's thing to me felt strange idr the specific wording but it felt incredibly frantic and really weird to me. like idk why do u think i know whats going on inside jakes head bro

i don't think this is trolling, kay- i think it's just a scum move here

But whats the point of it??
Like "yes come on vote me" so we wouldn't do it and just hope that we will ignore him or something?

i did talk about this earlier

ok so are you asking me to explain to you why people use this strategy or why this makes jake scum?

How will this help him as scum for longer term?
I thought even before they were scum, so my problem is not in that but like
What the thought process for that

well here's the exact wording no remembering necessary. i can see how you'd feel he's asking a little much from you on reading jake for him but do you think it's AI?

[halfasleep]

VOTE: Jupiter

They perspective slipped actually

what do you mean by that?

[halfasleep]

is self-voting really as common as this game makes it seem. it just seems petulant especially when you were going so hard at jake for it

[halfasleep]

I was all ready to side-eye jackson for seemingly making a 'slip' out of nothing and doubly kjq for jumping on it but what am i supposed to do with this selfdestruct lol. you're gonna fold up and say 'i don't want to play anymore' over 2 (two) people scumreading you?

[halfasleep]

A slip out of nothing? Want me to not call put what I see? You’re complaining I’m not playing and now complain that I am

no. why are you conflating my reaction to what you said with being unhappy that you said it? and to be clear that's what would have been my reaction if jupiter hadn't reacted like that. shockingly, i'm less convinced of my own take now.

[halfasleep]

jupiter's been making himself more and more town in my reading with every post. not feeling happy with any any of my reads now it might be back to the drawing board we'll see

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JupiterXV

e-1 since you can unvote yourself if you want to play after all.

[halfasleep]

actually i changed my mind i don't want to play
sm1 hammer please
i'm vt

cool

[halfasleep]

why would you do that there's just under a week left in d1 this is so stupid

fuck off dude

maybe i'm just a stupid newbie who doesn't understand your big brain strats but in what scenario on what planet in e-1ing yourself not completely asinine gameplay?

ok serious question jupiter do you think anything that's been said in reaction to your self-vote is ruder or meaner than what i said about jake's quoted here? because i didn't see you stopping to tell me off for this at the time.

[halfasleep]

i do recommend that you don't self-vote if you don't want to be limmed, yes.

[halfasleep]

ok i think the best response i can give here is that if you want to request that we de-escalate the tone of the game to something chiller, that's well within your rights, jupiter. but i don't think playing up like everyone but is being a terrible person is a very good way to ask for especially since i don't think the tone of your posting has been substancially less combative than anyone else's. we can't really have this conversation if you want to act like you're not a participant here. you have agency, y'know?

[halfasleep]

I think that Black has tried to engage with some players in this game, and those players haven't really reciprocated the engagement.

While she has made one-offs that I could best describe as shading, I do think some of her lack of deal is that no one seems interested in holding down a convo with her.

Still, I find her pot-shots scummy and want to push her for them.

this is a good point. you and purple have ignored black's questions at different points in the thread while ming and kay just gave stonewalling non-answers. it's kinda funny that you're bringing this up when you're part of the problem tho.

[halfasleep]

The 3P color about to be red when my axe meets their neck

VOTE: Jack The Wolfie

People finally scumread me. I was scared there for a little bit.

Why were you scared

it was here a lot earlier in the thread so before any of the major arguments where yes, you were engaged with black directly so i'll give you that. i only saw this because you brought up black being ignored and i backread.
i don't really see a problem in a little shade when you're pointing out something that you've done yourself but to be clear it doesn't really move the needle on you either way in my eyes. i don't really see the scum motivation in black's posting that you seem to either.

[halfasleep]

sure, you're free to determine what you think is relevant but it was a direct question you didn't answer (and it does read to me like at least a light genuine poke to start moving the game, but that's subjective and i can believe you don't think so) and i want to note it. mainly because i'm wary of potentially useful information getting lost in the noise. and we've definitely had a lot noise so far.

[halfasleep]

anyway since we're talking jake where are you on kjq. she's been feeling worse and worse to me, personally

[halfasleep]

gamers do yall think jake voting purple is scum-motivated or not

The comment before the vote makes it seem like an excuse for jumping on a bus (that was only 2 votes at the time, so not even a bus)

her first serious post in the thread, immediately shading jupiter

VOTE: JupiterXV

weird to piggyback off what awesomeming is saying without adding anything yourself. can't tell if partnered or just opportunism.

I’m not piggybacking, I’m just in a bad mood and his posts were getting annoying. I don’t know why town would just spam nonsense that doesn’t move the game forward. I get having a bit of banter and some jokes but I guess I just feel it’s excessive.

at the first opportunity she finds a reason to vote for jupiter. this is where i first scumread her since i thought she was just joining in with ming.

VOTE: Black

say more?

I think scum is hiding behind this Jake-sized red herring so I’m venturing out to find them.

Do you not have any questions for me? I don't know how just voting for me is going to help you find me if I'm scum

I don’t have any questions for you at this time.

this is the only time she really looks at anyone but jupiter but then has nothing to say to black after getting the attention she's allegedly looking for.

VOTE: Jupiter

They perspective slipped actually

there's no way that jake's on site for five years and has mafia knowledge YET PLAYS LIKE THIS AS TOWN???

Aaaaand he double downs.

but as soon as someone else is on jupiter? immediately jumping in and instigating. same target, same pattern of waiting for someone else to push first.
the main town-motive i could see behind her posts is that she's been tunneled on jupiter since page 1 but that doesn't really make sense to me because then she says:

I was all ready to side-eye jackson for seemingly making a 'slip' out of nothing and doubly kjq for jumping on it but what am i supposed to do with this selfdestruct lol. you're gonna fold up and say 'i don't want to play anymore' over 2 (two) people scumreading you?

I didn’t even necessarily scum read him. Just felt like I could anticipate how he was going to react.

like, really? you didn't? this doesn't check out to me at all.

[halfasleep]

hmm, actually yeah
VOTE: KayJayQueue

[halfasleep]

Spoiler: Comment 1

gamers do yall think jake voting purple is scum-motivated or not

The comment before the vote makes it seem like an excuse for jumping on a bus (that was only 2 votes at the time, so not even a bus)

her first serious post in the thread, immediately shading jupiter

Quite literally there was no shading whatsoever of Jupiter in this post. Jupiter asked is Jake's vote looked scum-motivated and I responded that I think Jake's comment before his vote (in post 84) looked like an excuse to jump on a bus. My comment was literally answering Jupiter's question and was fully a read on Jake, not Jupiter.

yeah you're right i completely misread the context there and who it was directed at. apologies for that.

[halfasleep]

but generally the problem i'm having with your response here is that you're taking issue with the individual quotes and not that these are the only posts that stood out to me in your iso as getting involved in the game at all. yes i saw all the posts you're linking of you stepping back from what you're saying about jupiter or black but it's never followed by any other attempts at reads on the game. there's 6 whole players you don't seem to have any thoughts on at all, does that make sense?

[halfasleep]

When nearly 1/3 of the posts in this game come from Jupiter and Black combined, I’m going to have more opinions on those two players.

i'm not going to argue the fraction because i don't want to do maths. myself and jackson have higher postcounts than black so it doesn't seem like a significant statistic to me. why didn't you have anything to say about either of us until i poked you about it if you're choosing who to look at solely based on how often they're posting. thank you for posting some reads now though i do appreciate that.

halfasleep and fireisredsir have both sussed me consistently through the game and it’s very possible one is bad and trying to push on the sus put on me early from black. But just being sus doesn’t make someone scum.

i honestly can't tell whether or not you think a scumread on you is alignment-indicative or not.

I do find it weird that after the insanity that went down, the read that was taken from it was that I should still be sus after I feel it was very obvious my reaction was town and my motivation for my responses were also town.

i don't find that obvious and i don't know why you'd think i would. i also don't agree that it's weird to think how players choose to react to dramatic events in the thread could have multiple possible motivations behind them.

Also that long post I responded to gave plenty of indication and explanation yet it was largely ignored. (probably because it didn’t fit the narrative of ne being bad) Instead, you found something else to push on me about.

but generally the problem i'm having with your response here is that you're taking issue with the individual quotes and not that these are the only posts that stood out to me in your iso as getting involved in the game at all.

yes i saw all the posts you're linking of you stepping back from what you're saying about jupiter or black but it's never followed by any other attempts at reads on the game.

there's 6 whole players you don't seem to have any thoughts on at all, does that make sense?

this didn't explain why i found those answers unconvincing?

Seems to me like you’re not looking for answers from me, you’re looking to poke holes in anything I say.

poking at you is successfully getting you to say more than i've seen from you so far. you don't agree this is a good result?

I took issue with what you posted because it ignored context of the rest of my posts which explained many of your issues you claimed to have. It’s not my problem if those are the only posts that stood out to you, that’s your personal opinion. And how would I know that that is why you only linked certain posts and not others? That wasn’t explicitly said and I’m not a mind reader.

ok i'm sorry if my meaning wasn't clear enough in the initial post. i hope it is now?

[halfasleep]

dragon my most recent vote is on kay. the vc is inaccurate

[halfasleep]

some quick takes i think i like ming's post at 593 quite a bit. just some solid, genuine-looking reading of the thread.

it got lost in the noise of jupiter's reaction but in restrospect i still don't feel good about jackson's 'slip' theory on jupiter (even if they subsequently claimed to be projecting false confidence in it to an extent) -

A slip out of nothing? Want me to not call put what I see? You’re complaining I’m not playing and now complain that I am

- and particularly don't like this reponse to being questioned on it.

Black and Kay, can you both explain why you think I’m town real quick?

We seem to be on the same page and I’m town so unless you’re actually trying to pocket me, I’m going to townread you until you give me a reason not to.

i'm also not sure agreement is a great basis for a townread but this could be a value difference idk

[halfasleep]

So what are your opinions on the rest of the players? You seemed to get annoyed when you thought I was tunneling Jupiter and now you’re doing the same to me. Why aren’t you pushing PurpleMango or awesomeming for reads on the entire player list? Also I don’t think the majority of players have commented on everyone in the game yet you felt it was necessary to push me for that.

1. i'd like to hear more from purplemango too i think we're on the same page on that. i can't talk to someone who's never in the thread long enough.
2. i can't tell if you're suggesting that ming isn't making constructive reads when he posts or if i haven't had enough to say about him but either way that's wild. smacks of not really paying much attention to posts that aren't about you which to me is in-line with my scumread of you.
3. if anyone, fireisred is the better pull for a player i haven't had much to say about. i can't get anything but a neutral read on him.
4. if i say that i'm not saying i expect everyone to constantly be saying something about everyone but still think you've said the least while not just lurking i hope you can accept that as genuine.
5. i don't consider this a tunnel i consider it a conversation. i'm still talking to you because you're talking back and it's creating content for the thread. i don't feel like our convo has become unproductive yet but if you do feel free to disengage.

[halfasleep]

I’ve noticed that even when I give logical explanations for my actions as town, I still get pushed and my reasoning is ignored. Last time this happened, the person continuing to push me was scum. I’m going to keep that in mind going forward because it’s tiring to defend myself nonstop only to realize at the end of the game it’s just scum trying to keep me as an option. I don’t feel like I’ve left anything unanswered. I thoroughly explained myself and if that’s not good enough for you, I’m going to assume you have ulterior motives for tunneling on me.

i think it's a little disingenuous to lump being disagreed with and being ignored as the same thing. your logic might make sense to you but that doesn't mean it does to me that's why we're talking.
i'd also like you to consider how being more concerned with defending yourself than anything else might look. you only have one vote (mine) on you i don't understand why you're this indignant about it.

[halfasleep]

What’s not to like?

it seemed like the reach of the century and i didn't believe that you really thought you saw a slip there.

[halfasleep]

I don't really think the scumreads on me make a lot of sense, but whatever. This game hasn't been very enjoyable so I wouldn't mind not playing it anymore

are we really back here again?

[halfasleep]

i'd also like you to consider how being more concerned with defending yourself than anything else might look. you only have one vote (mine) on you i don't understand why you're this indignant about it.

Take a look at that thread and tell me I don’t need to be worried with defending myself. It’s ridiculous to try to tell me that nearly all the active players are agreeing with posts that sus me and I am too concerned with defending against that.

i'll be more clear: it's a team game. you can still win if you die. in my mind appearing more concerned with self-defense is likely to be a scumtell or possibly a PR slip. i would really hope you're not doing the latter

[halfasleep]

i'd also like you to consider how being more concerned with defending yourself than anything else might look. you only have one vote (mine) on you i don't understand why you're this indignant about it.

Take a look at that thread and tell me I don’t need to be worried with defending myself. It’s ridiculous to try to tell me that nearly all the active players are agreeing with posts that sus me and I am too concerned with defending against that.

i'll be more clear: it's a team game. you can still win if you die. in my mind appearing more concerned with self-defense is likely to be a scumtell or possibly a PR slip. i would really hope you're not doing the latter

i agree w black that some people are naturally more defensive than others

that might be true. i shouldn't dismiss the possibility that this could just be a case of personality clash.

[halfasleep]

What’s not to like?

it seemed like the reach of the century and i didn't believe that you really thought you saw a slip there.

Have you read the game? I explained my thought process

i have, yes. but for posterity:

VOTE: Jupiter

They perspective slipped actually

wow I came back to thread after forty minutes on public transit and I think I've seen a lot of scum theatre, (JV, Jake, Purple)

half-asleep I will respond to purplemango for the sake of fairness, I have part of that post written and will work on it later

VOTE: Jake this is scummier tbh

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

These are not consistent, quoting random skimmed “jake is scum” like posts but grab any of them. Why would someone who scumreads them insult their towngame here.

“It’s astounding they’ve been on the site with this towngame”

Paraphrased. This wording and yours seems to show to me that your assumption is that they’re town. Which would be the perspective slip in question.

I know what you meant to say, a slip is a slip.

it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal

To be as clear as I possibly can as I’m going to be busy again really soon.

I know what you were trying to say, that they’re too bad to reasonably be town (which like, I don’t respect you saying and I think that’s incredibly disrespectful).

What you said was filled with the assumption that they actually are town. Most notably your use of “astounding that” rather than something like “astounding if”.

I believe this is because you know he’s town (aka you’re a wolf) and accidentally slipped that with your wording.

Also now that I’ve gotten a response, I also feigned a lot of my confidence with the slip. I do think it’s a bad look but not like caught scum levels of a slip. Their reaction I don’t like at all, it doesn’t feel like a natural response to me (considering where I stand in the game) but at the exact same time they did come back and respond to me fast instead of waiting to see what the general reception was. I think the former is a bad look, the latter a good look but at the same time I’m not sure if scum!jup waits on that now that I’m writing this out but the reaction to it being fast and the almost immediate defeatism is just incredibly awkward. It honestly baffles me that it happened the way it did

anyway i think saying something you don't believe is 'astounding' is perfectly legible rhetoric and i find it hard to believe you got so much out of it. and i guess that makes two of us.

[halfasleep]

VC 1.10

Votecount 1.10

JupiterXV (2):

JupiterXV, halfasleep

Jake The Wolfie (2):

fireisredsir, Black

Black (2):

KayJayQueue, JacksonVirgo

Purplemango (1):

Jake The Wolfie

Not Voting (2):

Purplemango, awesomeming327

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-03-26 01:07:06).

Mod Notes

None!

again, i am not voting for jupiter.

[halfasleep]

i'd also like you to consider how being more concerned with defending yourself than anything else might look. you only have one vote (mine) on you i don't understand why you're this indignant about it.

Take a look at that thread and tell me I don’t need to be worried with defending myself. It’s ridiculous to try to tell me that nearly all the active players are agreeing with posts that sus me and I am too concerned with defending against that.

i'll be more clear: it's a team game. you can still win if you die. in my mind appearing more concerned with self-defense is likely to be a scumtell or possibly a PR slip. i would really hope you're not doing the latter

If I thought “we can still win if town dies” was a good strategy, why wouldn’t I have just hammered Jupiter? I clearly stated that it was a team game during that conversation and that I felt if he was town he was screwing over his team by giving up.

Basically, a mislim doesn’t doom us, sure. But I know for a fact that I’d be a mislim and what information would it give town? If anything the fact that you think I slipped as a PR and still pushing me makes it seem like scum is trying to mislim a PR.

1. why wouldn't you hammer. because there's no reason for you to want to end the day so early or look like you want to. bizarre argument.
2. again, nobody is voting with me. you're not in particularly present danger of being today's lim i don't understand why you think you are. i'm engaging with my scumread to get information from your replies. i'm not actively campaigning for more votes for you and if 3 players suddenly move their vote on you i'd unvote since i wouldn't comfortable letting you sit at e-1 at this point.
3. oh come on. 'possibly' doesn't mean i think that i'm acknowledging other possible explanations. i was overlooking you just being defensive as a personality point so i'll acknowledge that too.

[halfasleep]

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

ok then, what am i misunderstanding here?

[halfasleep]

Halfasleep would you like to join the Jake wagon? I would be fine going for Kay but I would feel worse about it

i've obviously not had an easy time with jake this game but my gut still pinged town when i was taking to him. definitely my shakiest townread though.
i'd probably be happier with kay or jackson today but i don't see it going that way. it's possible i end up compromising on jake at day's end but i'm definitely not there yet with the time we have left.

[halfasleep]

*talking to him. i make no comment on whether or not i'm taking to him

[halfasleep]

jake - I don't really understand the logic behind actions, at the moment it's getting better, but still too weird to be a town in my mind
Like, too much doesn't make sense

oh hey! here you are! anyway can you elaborate where you are on jake? i agree his style is hard to parse but i'd like to hear exactly what you think doesn't make sense.

[halfasleep]

ok i need to backread this black/jackson/kay argument for sure. the posts came in pretty hot while i was typing my own stuff and i lost track of what the disagreement even was. am i right in thinking it started from jackson not liking black's change in jupiter read and black not liking kay's read on her?

[halfasleep]

ok i got nothing out of that the whole thing just seemed circular and unproductive oh well

[halfasleep]

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

ok then, what am i misunderstanding here?

jackson, any elaboration on this?

[halfasleep]

jake, any thoughts on purple scumreading you?

[halfasleep]

sure np

[halfasleep]

[...)

jake - I don't really understand the logic behind actions, at the moment it's getting better, but still too weird to be a town in my mind
Like, too much doesn't make sense
[...]

I think, coming from a newbie, this take is totally reasonable and expected. My playstyle is definitely a deviation from the norm, and reading it as such is not AI imo.

fair

[halfasleep]

That’s like not at all what I was calling out

ok then, what am i misunderstanding here?

jackson, any elaboration on this?

“it's honestly astounding that jakes's been on site for like five years now and plays like this as town does anyone know if this is normal” - Jupiter 2023

Sure, so initially I saw his wording choice wasn’t really lining up with what he would be believing if he were Town. He is meaning to say that he believes Jake is scum because this play would otherwise be insane to come from a Town. He is also asking people for other thoughts on the validity of that thought. I was never debating that, and I’m stating this to make it clear the thought process all through it including any assumptions I take for granted that you may disagree with.

With that thought, he would br confident but still isn’t sure (hence asking for external feedback). The exact wording I saw as a possible Freudian slip as the use of “that” in the first sentence seems to subtly insinuate that he believes that he is Town, yet acting like he’s not.

The operative term is exactly that “that” as I would have otherwise expected he would use a word that wasn’t so cut and dry such as “if”.

Whether you agree to that or not, I saw something worth investigating so as I do as often as I’m genuinely confident I overly exaggerated my confidence to try and get a decent response out of Jup, as if I’m all subtle and like “oh maybe its scummy idk” that’s not going to put pressure on anybody, and pressure is what gets the scum to choke and slip up exactly like he did.

yeah i find the rhetoric identical regardless of 'that' vs 'if'. it's the same in my eyes. but yeah there's probably no point in litigating that further.
i also don't agree that jupiter's overreaction was inherently a scum choke which is the part that probably is going to remain a relevant question going forward.

[halfasleep]

i don't think it does. it's what i already thought you were saying but it's good to go through it clearly. i didn't really trust it at the time and i still don't now. like i said it's more that you wanted to shut that down at the time that keeps you in my scumpool.
though i can also imagine the world where town-you was feeling good about where your read might be taking you and didn't like me poking it before you'd gotten jupiter's reaction. that wouldn't be unreasonable, it think. hrm. considering that might push you back towards neutral territory for me. idk i'll let it simmer.

[halfasleep]

thanks for engaging with me on that i think it does help my thoughts.

[halfasleep]

I was all ready to side-eye jackson for seemingly making a 'slip' out of nothing and doubly kjq for jumping on it but what am i supposed to do with this selfdestruct lol. you're gonna fold up and say 'i don't want to play anymore' over 2 (two) people scumreading you?

A slip out of nothing? Want me to not call put what I see? You’re complaining I’m not playing and now complain that I am

ah right okay i misremembered this. i thought we had this interaction before jupiter's blow-up but i was after that makes my possible interpretation of it in my last post make no sense at all you can disregard that.

[halfasleep]

i mean i think if you there's something you want to elaborate on go for it. but if your reasons for being emotional there are real life stuff i don't think i need to, or ought to, ask after that.

[halfasleep]

i mean i think if you there's something you want to elaborate on go for it. but if your reasons for being emotional there are real life stuff i don't think i need to, or ought to, ask after that.

Had nothing to do with irl, I won’t waste my breath if you don’t want to hear it.

You say you took that thing back, is your read on me still as scum?

i'm happy to hear it then, yes. you're currently at the more neutral end of my scumpool i'd say. my conclusions a few posts up are definitely wonky due to the misread context but i still consider that one post troubling for seeming attack the fact that i was doubting the slip theory at all rather than questioning the actual merit of those doubts. i think i could have been clearer about what i was objecting to in the post you were replying to and i'll admit to that. i was, like everyone at that moment, distracted by jupiter.

[halfasleep]

So what’s the difference here when Jackson engages you and responds to your issues with him and when I did in post 604? Why is his reasoning on being emotional immediately backed off of yet mine wasn’t? Why did you thank him for engaging with you but continued to needle me over my responses? It’s feeling very disproportionate and I’m pretty confused by it, especially if what he said didn’t change your mind.

If you’re still wondering why I was defensive, I’d suggest looking at the way you engaged me vs the way you just engaged Jackson and how we responded to that engagement. I feel like I’m being villainized for responding defensively but if you’re comparing how I’m being responded to vs others, I think I have more reason to be defensive.

do you really see no difference in tone? the post you're linking isn't nearly as bad as it got but it is the start of you treating it like a personal injustice that i was questioning your gameplay. i haven't had that from jackson in this past conversation, if you insist on drawing the comparison, thus it's easier for me to discuss the point with them without it turning into pulling teeth.

it's also easier to accept emotion as an explanation for one post in isolation than for one post cited as part of a pattern of behaviour, so that's a big difference for me.

i assume by needle you mean continued to ask questions to which i can only say they're different conversations about different game content to which i got different answers. of course the amount of further questions that occur to me reading them is going to vary.

i'm not villainising you. i'm scumreading you. i think it's important to be clear that i consider the mafia to be my opponents in this game, not my personal enemies. nobody is a bad person for playing the game as scum. if we can't agree on that then i don't know how to play with you.

[halfasleep]

but if you’re comparing how I’m being responded to vs others, I think I have more reason to be defensive.

oh right and if am i right in thinking 'being responded to' being said in a general tense means i'm also taking shit for how your argument with black went i can only ask that you don't do that. there's nothing i can do if you're getting mad at me for factors i can't control.

[halfasleep]

i guess i can only ask you to point out which posts of mine have caused this feeling and why. i would like not to make the game unfun for you and i'm sorry if i am. please show me the problem.

[halfasleep]

I think a better use of our time is to agree to start fresh from here. We’ll be getting two new players replacing in soon and I think it’s better for everyone if we stop rehashing the stuff that got everyone so heated.

I’d like to take a step forward from all of the previous drama.

I’m not asking you to change your opinion on my alignment or anything, just that we try to move forward. I feel like I’ve commented on all the previous posts of mine that I need to and that my answers won’t change.

ok, well, i don't agree to draw a hard line to never bring up any posts before this point. but i do generally agree we'd all benefit from a refresh and change of tone so i'm with you there.

[halfasleep]

amongus

so true oomfie

[halfasleep]

agreed

[halfasleep]

hewwo and lelcome to the both of you

[halfasleep]

Gunna go back to reading through but just to give a little bit of direction in the meantime, could people let me know what their current reads are (at least, a main suspect if possible) to give me an idea of the game state.

(If you've posted them already, I'm sure I'll see them, but letting me know the post number would be useful too)

Thanks

for me currently: kjq is my stongest scumread. i've had questions about ming and jackson but both of them have subsequently looked better to me so they sit kinda ambivalently in my scumpool.
fire, purple and jupiter/you i'm pretty much neutral on.
jake is a rollercoaster to me. not neutral but i go pretty feast or famine reading one post of his or another.
black/gimli would be my most solid townread.

[halfasleep]

gimli, while i appreciate a lot of those 20-odd pages are probably frustrating to read, they do also contain a lot of potentially valuable and likely read-influencing game content. you bring an opportunity with you to read with a fresh pair of eyes and provide the take of someone of wasn't involved.

also, while i'm currently townreading your slot, i'm not sure i'm okay with accepting your townread on me as on the level if you're going to stick to it without having seen the majority of my gameplay so far.

[halfasleep]

I wouldn't replace into a scum slot tbh

too much effort and this is my last week of having time to mafia proper

I mean

I asked to rep in cause I felt black was a townie

mmf. this is a weird comment to make and assumption to make if true? based on individual player meta?
probably no AI but it is odd.

[halfasleep]

gimli did my exchanges with kay after scumreading her affect your read on either of us?

[halfasleep]

gimli did my exchanges with kay after scumreading her affect your read on either of us?

no. I'm not sure I even remember these posts anymore, sorry. I know I just replaced in but goldfish memory.

I find, for instance, that you won't immediately accept my townread on you to be great evidence that you're a townie. I liked your approach early on, your reads list, your reaction to pressure on you etc. you're my strongest townread maybe alongside fireisred.

can i request that you read our isos starting from 591 and 604, respectively? the way kay responded to me here is what solidified my opinion that she mainly engages with the game from the perspective of either pushing her preferred lim (more focused on thomith's slot earlier but now firmly switched to yours) or to defend against any perceived attacks. i firmly think her priority is on not being eliminated rather than reading and thinking about the game.

[halfasleep]

You’re not making me feel any different about my scumread on the Black-slot. I was open to having just been overly convinced in my own reads so I was willing to entertain your perspective on the slot. But you’ve really just solidified my read.

i don't believe this at all.

[halfasleep]

You’re not making me feel any different about my scumread on the Black-slot. I was open to having just been overly convinced in my own reads so I was willing to entertain your perspective on the slot. But you’ve really just solidified my read.

how did I do that, btw?

Too much of your posts where based in “Black was obviously town” “Black wouldn’t that” “I knew she was town, I was right”

I just felt like I wanted more from your reads.

The only thing I can say I like is that you can tell that I’m town where black couldn’t.

But I’m wondering if that’s just trying to appease the loudest person against your slot or not. It’s hard to know.

expected

[halfasleep]

Okay - question to those wanting to vote me: when I flip town, what will that mean to you? Would you listen to my reads then? Would you ignore everything I’ve said? What direction will you be going in once you see you’re wrong about me being scum? Because at the moment I don’t have confidence that the game isn’t being run by and steered in the wrong direction by scum. I do think scum is being more vocal in this game and therefore I don’t think it’s purple, ming or fire right now.

that's a good question. i'd definitely still be looking at jackson as i think there's a good chance only one of you is scum here. i'd also be looking at who was voting for you early in the game (excluding RVS), which would be gimli's slot in this case. that townread would definitely have to be called into question if you flip green.

[halfasleep]

Okay - question to those wanting to vote me: when I flip town, what will that mean to you? Would you listen to my reads then? Would you ignore everything I’ve said? What direction will you be going in once you see you’re wrong about me being scum? Because at the moment I don’t have confidence that the game isn’t being run by and steered in the wrong direction by scum. I do think scum is being more vocal in this game and therefore I don’t think it’s purple, ming or fire right now.

I'm starting to see you being scum in this game, kay.

this post isn't pointing at anyone in particular and yet is throwing some random paranoia on big posters being scum that I'm not sure I buy it. your top scumreads are two replace out slots and halfasleep. I'm almost 100% on it being 0/3 scum, even though I don't really know jupiter enough to know if he has such a large range to play like he did as scum. I like thomith in this game. either way those don't seem to be The Big Posters, you know? jake and virgo have posted more and those are townreads you have.

also, who is willing to flip you this game? I'm not sure but other than halfasleep I don't think I've seen you being thrown around as a scumread that much? it feels like you have a warped view of the game that I'm unsure comes from town.

this is also a post that may denounce partnership with mango particularly, as that's the lowest poster in the game. I also find it telling that you gave three options for 'probably not scum' because not big posters, and none of these posters is mango. feels like maybe you're truthtelling a bit - yes there are plenty lowposters who are townies, particularly those three - but what is revealed is what you kept hidden - the one lowposter not in your list, because that's your scum partner.

this is just a narrative I'm throwing but it could as well be the case and I don't think it's too farfetched.

purple is mango. purplemango. same player.

[halfasleep]

we should improve society somewhat

and yet you be on that phone

[halfasleep]

Sleepy understands me. She is the only one that gets to call me scum from now on.

vote kay if you want to pocket me mr mafia

[halfasleep]

I would like everyone to comment on mango. is anyone townreading it? is anyone not putting it in a scum POE?

i've been neutral on mango all day and that hasn't changed for me. i don't know how to get a good read off his inactivity but at the same time if that was by design he'd be seeing it wasn't working by now, right?

i can also really imagine the NAI case for his lack of engagement considering the fairly intense tone the thread took on earlier, his age compared to the probable age of most of the players here and the vague vibe of his personality i get from the posts he has made. i'd kinda like to give him some space to re-engage and try to enjoy the game if he decides to but i recognise that's an emotional position rather than a rational gameplay one.

i'm not 100% resistant to the flip if i can't get any of my scumreads but wouldn't feel great about it either

[halfasleep]

Sleepy understands me. She is the only one that gets to call me scum from now on.

vote kay if you want to pocket me mr mafia

I would, but if she dies then I'll never be kissed

???
i'm sorry jake i don't think i understand you after all.
guess i'll have to call you town.

[halfasleep]

I'm going to do a proper read through/catchup tomorrow because I'm exhausted today so haven't done much other than skim through parts of the thread and keep up with what is happening today.

On a skim read I find myself not liking Purple, and due to recent posts such as 903 I find myself raising my eyebrows at halfasleep. I also don't like the "I only replace into town slots" from Gimli, and the TMI thing seemed weird to me at the time, although I appreciate it was explained since.

I don't want to eliminate Kay today.
I'm not super convinced by the Jackson/Jake solve fully, so want to look at those ISO's together at some point to see if I'm missing something.

i like how this looks, i think.

[halfasleep]

jackson, kjq and jake: i believe you all scumread thomith's slot at various points when it was jupiter in the driver's seat. how has thomith's posting affected your pereception of the slot so far?

[halfasleep]

on ming, i clashed with him pretty early on specifics but it's hard to call his early posting anything but engaged. i also liked 593 which was his last real contribution. he remains in my line of sight as possible scum due to lack of movement. i don't know if he's busy or he's been demotivated the game's direction but i'd certainly like to hear from him soon.

[halfasleep]

liking everything i've been seeing from gimli so far. was already townreading the slot and everything since he repped in has looked like a pretty genuine thought process to me.

[halfasleep]

given a little pause by kay's description of her previous scumgame sounding so similar to what she's been doing here. genuinely don't know if scum-kay should or would admit to that much.

probably

NAI, though i think. doesn't seem like the kind of post i should be letting myself be swayed by either way.

[halfasleep]

and as i said a while ago i think they felt a little more lost/disconnected in their town game than in their scumgame so i don't think it's a scumtell

i don't really think thats count/helping the claim
Those games were very different situation, and also the knowing people thing

I'm not sure if you misinterpreted what fireisred is saying here

are you taking issue with fireisred saying you're more likely to be a townie?

is the 'knowing people thing' making a real difference to how you're approaching this game, making you post less and feel disconnected, in relation to your town games?

it

I don't have problem with that

I mentioned that in the game where I was scum, there was a difference
So comparing it to the game where I was town doesn't really help
It's not really important, but it seemed to me to be relevant to the situation, and changes it in a way that makes no sense to me (not against fireisredsir)

what i'm getting from this is that you're not into to being meta-read whether it's in your favour or not? is that right?
putting yourself aside for a second, what from your persepctive makes you likely to see another player as one alignment or another?

[halfasleep]

Why don’t you have an updated list? That feels like busywork

I can do a list that gives no info too if you want lol


Town: Jack 10/10, awesome, so town, love, would recommend

Everyone else - definitely something


/s
/j
Hopefully that’s apparent lol

you both TMIing on each other, it's impressive

not sure what the implication here is. i'd be very surprised if both of them were scum, personally.

[halfasleep]

black fireisred and halfasleep are all town to me
i dont want to think about purple right now and kjq seems too underwhelming to be scum
so you might actly be right

not sure who the last sentence is directed at. if i'm reading right it's between jake, jackson and thomith for you today? which way do you think you're more likely to lean?

[halfasleep]

This is the first palindromic post number after 1000

hi, jake! you're currently voting purple. you framed this as wanting to get more out of him. is this still true?
your heaviest expressed scumread during the game is the black/gimli slot. where are you on them or any of your previous votes (me, jackson, jupiter/thomith)?

[halfasleep]

@purplemango can you please link me to your towngame?

viewtopic.php?t=91644
I'm pretty sure its supposed to work

not a useful comment but damn they got through four days of play real concisely over here. is this game the weird one lol?

[halfasleep]

varies a lot, this is closer to the longer end of the range for a micro day 1

we should probably try to consolidate fairly soon, long day 1s are not particularly healthy for the game

hmm. i guess i can imagine conflicting ideas on this. is it better to get scum to post as much as possible to work with later or to cut the noise at some point? idk
where would we consolidate if it was only up to you? still jake or are there other options for you?

[halfasleep]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

[halfasleep]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

what makes you prefer jackson?

their dynamic with kay, mainly. i'm feeling more and more strongly that one of them is likely scum, so flipping either would be very helpful to me.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: Gimli

Meh

should i assume you have nothing to add?

[halfasleep]

ok it does seem like there's no chance i can get anyone on my first choice, kay, today. it looks like consolidating at least three votes (between me, fire and gimli) on either jackson or ming is possible here. i think i'm more inclined to want to flip jackson right now.

what makes you prefer jackson?

their dynamic with kay, mainly. i'm feeling more and more strongly that one of them is likely scum, so flipping either would be very helpful to me.

What about the dynamic?

like gimli, the level of unconditional townreading, mutual defense and agreement is very hard to believe from town + town. i have a hard time imagining that scum + scum would want to behave that way (double bluff? seems unlikely).
based on that and the issues i've had with both of you earlier, i think i lean towards thinking one of you could be scum successfully pocketing the other. i don't think kay is limmable today so i'm going to start prioritising you.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: JacksonVirgo

let's see if this has legs

[halfasleep]

i think there's a difference in tone to being resistant to others scumreading or voting for someone you

think

is town compared to a level of confidence that suggests you either

know

that they're town or have been convinced beyond what is reasonable.

[halfasleep]

cool

[halfasleep]

you said i was based last time :(

[halfasleep]

you said i was based last time

You’re still based don’t worry

[halfasleep]

If it’s a post can you please link it for me, I’m sorry I’m really lacking time the next couple days.

1056

[halfasleep]

i'd just like to say i'd really like it if we didn't devolve into personal recriminations again.

[halfasleep]

Didn’t even realise the fire/flame connection, that’s hilarious

so far away we wait for the dayyyy

[halfasleep]

Thoughts on what I said about him prodding the flames?

do you have any examples of this?

[halfasleep]

ok so upfront i'm slightly townleaning fire atm so take my iso reading with a grain of salt. im gonna do my best to play objective observer but some bias is probably inevitable.
that said the first post that jumps out to me here is this 'just out of RVS' post:

its been a while since ive played with a list where im unfamiliar with most of the players

ive forgotten how to read people without meta knowledge

that easily reads as totally innocuous but hypothetically could be setting up a basis for a hands-off playstyle that might be convenient for scum-fire.

ok i'mma keep reading that was just the first thing that struck me even if it's more than likely to be a nothingburger

[halfasleep]

Townreading you doesn’t make him town

i think this is a little uncharitable to what gimli actually said there: if i read it right it's more that he's saying that fire's professed townread on him (gimli) makes their (fire's) scumread on you and general postitioning in the gamestate consistent with a town-fire read.

(oh you already said it while i was typing, well screw it submit anyway)

[halfasleep]

ok, notable that fire's first jackson scumreads do come well before any townreading of the black/gimli slot - beyond a general statement on 'townleaning everyone else' - which does put some fly in the ointment gimli and i were making just above.
first direct mention of black comes here:

don't really have strong reads anywhere

lean town: ming, jupiter, halfasleep

nullish/conflicted: black, purple, jv

eh: kay

scummy: jake

where she and jackson are sharing space in the null-tier (she'd pulled back on scumreading jackson a little bit earlier at this point)

[halfasleep]

first (and only, at least prior to the post i quoted above) interaction with black was a bit earlier:

i think ming feels towny

I wanted to say it feels like TvT but I was worried someone would call me scummy for it

i think it probably is yeah

where the main agenda is the ming townread - not visibly trying to glean anything about black at this time.

[halfasleep]

(worth noting this is from a stage in the thread where black was kinda being ignored by the whole playerlist so not having much interaction with her isn't really a unique quality to fire)

[halfasleep]

the posting slowdown jackson's talking about happens exactly where you'd expect it to happen. NAI in and of itself.

[halfasleep]

ok a potential issue with their (i know you're in thread now fire but i'm continuing in the tense i started in for Consistency) subsequent is the townread on the black/gimli slot doesn't have an obvious progression:

i don't think black was obvtown tbf

im fairly sure she has made a very similar post as scum before although i don't really want to go dig for it

the point more was that i don't think "pushing obvtown black" is that valid of a reason for suspicion here

im not sure how sold i am on the case but at least im pretty sure this is town!gimli

why do you think that gimli would take this approach as scum

To not keep attacking people that are vocal, to open up paths to pivot to literally any single person they want without damaging their progression. Things like this.

Is it unconventional? Sure.
Does it mean they’re town? Not necessarily

him being town is the vastly more likely explanation for his approach here and if you're town you are very unreasonably tunneled

it's definitely not On The Page in any clear way how we got to borderline-locktown so fast. possibly explainable as friend-meta (in which case gimli should theoretically have a problem with it) or influenced by sussing jackson together (or at least at the same time), maybe?

[halfasleep]

varies a lot, this is closer to the longer end of the range for a micro day 1

we should probably try to consolidate fairly soon, long day 1s are not particularly healthy for the game

hmm. i guess i can imagine conflicting ideas on this. is it better to get scum to post as much as possible to work with later or to cut the noise at some point? idk
where would we consolidate if it was only up to you? still jake or are there other options for you?

i used to always want days to last as long as possible for Maximum Information but yeah at a certain point it's just noise and it becomes harder and harder to dig through things

i actively won't vote for gimli, halfasleep, thomith

i don't particularly want to vote for kay

kinda iffy on ming and purple and am ok with wagons there

would like to vote for jake or jackson

also notable here that fire is the first (only?) one to advocate for heading toward day's end and consolidating wagons. easily taken in good faith - as i obviously do above - but it would also be very good for scum-fire considering they haven't been scumread or heavily called into question all day. why not cut things short before either of those things might happen?

i also don't know how we got to ming being put into iffy and ready to wagon when they were townreading him all day? possibly based on his engagement drying up for town-fire or an impression of others (me?) being willing to go for him for scum-fire.

[halfasleep]

i'll chase these posts by saying that while these are the best stuff i could find for fitting into a potential scum-fire world, basically the rest of the iso looked pretty darn solid to me. all these cherry-picks are surrounded by very townie-looking and sometimes insightful posts that make me overall fell more good about them than bad. i hope this makes for a good basis for looking at fire more closely because either way it's undeniable that they've gone under the radar so far. everyone including fire please riff and respond to your hearts' content (or like, whenever you feel like it, whenever you have time no biggie)

[halfasleep]

OH AND since we were talking about ming again recently i'll reiterate that my main reasons to scumread him were his Very Weird Vote (at least to my eyes) on Jupiter:

oops
anyway jupiter is scum

BOOOOO tomato tomato tomato
AFTER ALL WE'VE GONE THROUGH..... our brotherhood.... was all our camaraderie for naught.....

top ten anime betrayals..... ming you cant be doing this to me......

Bad morning

VOTE: JupiterXV

for unnecessary AtE

and his willingness to put at on e-1 early in d1 on an apparent OMGUS vote:

Looking at this readlist, your reasons are not much stronger than mine were. Almost every single one of these is bordering on gutread.

you don't have to say 'bordering' they basically are gutreads. and i didn't call your reasoning weak i called it fake and i think you're pretending not to know that. and yes, that's a gutread too sue me.

?????????????????????????
VOTE: halfasleep
You do not need to die on this hill lmao

(which i recognise could have been NAI genuine tilt - if i've learned anything in this game so far it's that i may be even more annoying than i thought i was - but it overall doesn't look Good)

funnily enough the post that gimli's been citing as scummy-looking is the one that gave me a bit of townlean on ming after this stuff (never left the scumpool though). it's be nice to see him in the thread more i feel like my impression of him is very shaky compared to those i've seen a lot more from.

anyway sorry if i've missed something juicy in the posts that've been coming in as i've been doing this i haven't been able to read them i've burned out all my neurons on this iso dive. i'll check back in tomorrow when i wake up from however long i'm about to pass out for.

THESE TAKES BROUGHT TO YOU BY GIN AND INSOMNIA. CONSUME THEM RESPONSIBLY gnight

[halfasleep]

- if i've learned anything in this game so far it's that i may be even more annoying than i thought i was -

fwiw i think your posting has been very measured and reasonable and pleasant and not annoying at all, if you are indeed new then welcome and i hope to see you around in more games

this is a pocket attempt

Seconded, I needed a voice like yours and you humouring my idea like you did and ISOing fire was hugely appreciated. I respect it a lot, thank you

Also a pocket attempt

*frantically on the phone to my mum, trying to explain what mafiascum dot net is so i can tell her i'm finally popular*

[halfasleep]

There isn’t scum in Jake/Kay. You say there’s no scum in Gimli and obv yourself. I’m not a wolf. It for sure isn’t halfasleep now. Unless the scum is specifically in ming/purple/thom one of us is wrong. That pool Is almost entirely PoE aside from Thom.

Halfasleep is in that pool now too

that said, i'm a little curious how you got to this confident in me myself. i can see that what i was cooking last night Looks Good but stepping away from the 'i, halfasleep, know that i'm town' perspective, do you really think there's no possible scum motivation behind putting a heavily-townread player under increased scrutiny?

[halfasleep]

kinda like with the jackson/kay duo, i'm struggling a little with gimli declaring 'lock clears' in the absence of confirmed mechanical information. i really can't relate to being

that

confident that someone couldn't be fooling you.

[halfasleep]

black fireisred and halfasleep are all town to me
i dont want to think about purple right now and kjq seems too underwhelming to be scum
so you might actly be right

a Ping For Ming. i think in your absence you're getting closer and closer to becoming the default wagon here. you might want to get back in the thread and start posting again before that happens. hope that you do.

[halfasleep]

stop ateing

wait ming is your sr on me fr because i assumed you were joking

Bad morning

VOTE: JupiterXV

for unnecessary AtE

ming would i be right in thinking this is where you left RVS, then?

[halfasleep]

tr: jackson halfasleep

tl: fire Kay

rest im not too sure about

where do you think you want to vote today?

[halfasleep]

mmh. i don't think i really see another path to move things forward at this point

VOTE: awesomeming327

(e-2)

[halfasleep]

consider the following: stop tunneling

directed at who?

[halfasleep]

I’d rather flip a scum today.

most of us would, yes. do you think you see a path to limming anyone outside of ming, gimli or mayyybe jake. those are the only choices i see as having traction today.

[halfasleep]

What’s the current VC

e-1 on ming, e-2 on gimli. ming and mango not voting.

[halfasleep]

what kind of track are you hoping for?

[halfasleep]

ok i was gonna suggest that scum-ming might want to wait to see if mango voted gimli first to hammer but scratch that i guess lol

[halfasleep]

pretty much on the edge of my seat here but we might be waiting a while

[halfasleep]

mfw i wake up to seeing my most confident completely lost his mind right after i went to sleep

[halfasleep]

*most confident townread

[halfasleep]

thanks a million, dude

[halfasleep]

quick post on where my head's at going into today:

prob town:

fireisredsir, JacksonVirgo

can't nail down:

Thomith, Purplemango

prob scum:

awesomeming327, KayJayQueue

[halfasleep]

And by radar I mean my end of day push, I overgeneralised that

you

did

suggest pivoting to thomith during the final voting.

[halfasleep]

maybe it's time to stop pretending

mysterious

[halfasleep]

Fwiw halfasleeps entrance got me a little suspicious but not as much as yours

which part specifically?

[halfasleep]

And by radar I mean my end of day push, I overgeneralised that

you

did

suggest pivoting to thomith during the final voting.

I never expected it to actually happen, I really wanted gimli out

fair enough. i guess gimli agreed anyway.

[halfasleep]

I have a cracked solve guys, I’ve done it.


halfasleep/purplemango

don't give up i'm sure it could still be gimli somehow.

[halfasleep]

The worse my headache gets, the more I think it's Purple/ming

Hm actually i don't think they make the Jake kill

You’re starting to understand :O

I still don't understand why halfaseep is in your PoE for this?

The only other option is you lol

That literally isn't true?

Maybe fire. Maybe.

kay, why do

you

think this. any answer but jackson said it.

[halfasleep]

yeah i don't know anything about catching 'softs' ('soft-claiming'? same thing as breadcrumbing?). reading back after jake flipped, i did think i had a good read on who he was partnered with but now i think i was wrong so lol

[halfasleep]

bleh. don't know what to do with how unlimmable both of my scumreads are. don't like the prospect of having to pick either thomith or purple it feels like a crapshoot. not feeling good about at all about avoiding another mislim today.

[halfasleep]

VOTE: awesomeming327

parking my vote here for now but idk

[halfasleep]

i do know who i want to vote. 'idk' where i'm going when it's the end of the day and there's no path to getting scum out

[halfasleep]

kinda making me feel insane that ming can be so firmly townread for, primarily, not voting against himself then disappearing. he just looks like coasting scum to me and i don't know how make any more of a case against him because he never posts.

[halfasleep]

kinda making me feel insane that ming can be so firmly townread for, primarily, not voting against himself then disappearing. he just looks like coasting scum to me and i don't know how make any more of a case against him because he never posts.

Who is his partner?

good question. possibly you. not jackson or fire. mayyyyyybe thomith. i wanna believe it's not purple because then it's just lurker/lurker and i feel like an idiot lol

[halfasleep]

kinda making me feel insane that ming can be so firmly townread for, primarily, not voting against himself then disappearing. he just looks like coasting scum to me and i don't know how make any more of a case against him because he never posts.

Who is his partner?

good question. possibly you. not jackson or fire. mayyyyyybe thomith. i wanna believe it's not purple because then it's just lurker/lurker and i feel like an idiot lol

lurker/lurker don’t kill Jake N1, imo

yeah, probably not

[halfasleep]

it's probably true that my posts rn don't look like they have the same amount of effort behind them. too demoralised atm. i genuinely don't know what to do looking at the consensus calicify into what looks like a town-losing state so fast, probably helped along by scum. i should probably take a step back and come back later when i can actually form my thoughts into something more solid.

[halfasleep]

This looks like a town-losing state?

Literally the same brain holy shit

i think if the currently popular poe is followed-through on and we never lim ming or kay, we lose. maybe it's less set-in-stone than it looks but y'all look pretty decided.