Micro Normal 1102: ootmgoat [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

So why are you appealing to other people instead of advising Gimli to take a breath?

tl;dr I don't get why this matters

[Duelist Kage]

So, I'm starting to do my re-read and I want to call your attention to this thought from Gimli:

Yeah I'm not TRing DK at all for this... uh, let's call it a "stylish catch up". Hence the vote becoming serious. Ivd really appreciate you jumping on the wagon, Gimli.

I wanna find the townies and not jump on any wagons for now but I see what you're saying

This was made after I aborted my initial attempt to engage with the game due to the issues with Dragon. I made zero posts after this for him to develop any further read upon between this- where he doesn't care enough to even vote me- and him deciding that I'm lockscum (but being constantly unable to decide exactly who else is). There isn't really an actual read, it's a matter of the convenience of me not being around so he can push me and I'm not objecting. If he can constantly think of how Kay might be scum and Dann might be scum and May might be scum then how is it that they're never more than one at a time scum with me?

[Duelist Kage]

Then in this case I will say they are sarcastic. Unless you think a game with 5 scum and 4 town is possible.

You tell me

I feel like you're playing the newbie / "I'm so lost" card too much for it to be natural and hiding behind it sorta

VOTE: KayJayQueue

Hmm, I understand this position, as I read some of a game Kay recently completed, considering replacing in, and I definitely had her in my potential solve along with the actual scum team. (That was a pretty sad game). But I'm disliking it more now, seeing as DE was getting on Gimli's case at the time and now here's a CSF/Gimli defense.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Maybe the reason Gimli is under so much pressure is directly related to having >100 posts. The one thing I’ll agree on that kage said is that Gimli accused nearly everyone of being scum and town at some point. Throwing reads out like they’re candy doesn’t instill much trust in someone because they’ve shown that come the next page, they’ll have moved onto a different read. It’s hard to work with someone that is that indecisive when every time they give a new read, it feels like it’s with full confidence. I can’t trust that behavior, no matter the alignment.

Ok but like you do know you have to like prioritize alignment over all the other stuff at some juncture this game right

You kinda make the game dysfunctional if you treat "bad is the same as being on the other team!" As part of the game nothing is possible to accomplish

I meant to ask, what prompted you to say this? She's voting the same person as you after all, so the "dysfunctional" bit seems like a strange accusation

[Duelist Kage]

boo

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

See, this was part of my issue with what was going on with DE. I did not expect to come into this game and have him jump around pointing at me going "hey look, an alt! I know who it is!" People now think that he was meta-reading me. He said he wasn't because I'm on an alt so I may be trying to play differently. And yet the way he acted makes people think he is. Without knowing whether he even has the ability to do so (he doesn't). His presumed meta becomes an unfalsifiable argument, short of me explaining more about who I am/why I'm on an alt. I had certain hopes for addressing these things, as I didn't intend or expect to keep my main's identity a secret forever (or even a long time), and having to do so to address a "are you meta-reading me or not" situation was absolutely not any of those hopes. If people guess (like DE did), that's fine and expected (not that I'm trying to make it

too

easy).

[May]

Maybe the reason Gimli is under so much pressure is directly related to having >100 posts. The one thing I’ll agree on that kage said is that Gimli accused nearly everyone of being scum and town at some point. Throwing reads out like they’re candy doesn’t instill much trust in someone because they’ve shown that come the next page, they’ll have moved onto a different read. It’s hard to work with someone that is that indecisive when every time they give a new read, it feels like it’s with full confidence. I can’t trust that behavior, no matter the alignment.

Ok but like you do know you have to like prioritize alignment over all the other stuff at some juncture this game right

You kinda make the game dysfunctional if you treat "bad is the same as being on the other team!" As part of the game nothing is possible to accomplish

I meant to ask, what prompted you to say this? She's voting the same person as you after all, so the "dysfunctional" bit seems like a strange accusation

it's an impersonal you that is broadly applicable to that type of practice in general

[May]

boo

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

See, this was part of my issue with what was going on with DE. I did not expect to come into this game and have him jump around pointing at me going "hey look, an alt! I know who it is!" People now think that he was meta-reading me. He said he wasn't because I'm on an alt so I may be trying to play differently. And yet the way he acted makes people think he is. Without knowing whether he even has the ability to do so (he doesn't). His presumed meta becomes an unfalsifiable argument, short of me explaining more about who I am/why I'm on an alt. I had certain hopes for addressing these things, as I didn't intend or expect to keep my main's identity a secret forever (or even a long time), and having to do so to address a "are you meta-reading me or not" situation was absolutely not any of those hopes. If people guess (like DE did), that's fine and expected (not that I'm trying to make it

too

easy).

idk who you are

I'm not sure how to read you

[May]

i still need to read kayjay if gimli flips town however how

[May]

as much as i want the world where dannflor is just like wow May's hero solve was right

[Duelist Kage]

the wink wink nudge nudge secret meta reads are not fun to decipher

Who posted anything like that? I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who knows Kage's identity and I didn't really do any meta read of her (aside from saying she should know Gimli's meta, which just trust me on this).

See? What even is this. It's not meta, oh except for this one thing which he just totally made up? If he's town, as seems likely at the moment, he's totally projecting his own confidence because

he

feels like he knows Gimli's meta therefore I, as someone he knows has played with Gimli before, must

also

know. It's awful.

[May]

i think im not that good at mafia but its the one game i try to give myself permission to be mid at

[Duelist Kage]

That doesn’t do a lot for me personally

I think you can decide something is within someone’s scum range even if they’ve never done it before

And it’s not like duelist commented on some out-there gambit or something, it was literally just you throwing reads out there early

which also i feel like you do that all the time lol hence you making a thread about how to not throw reads out there so easily

And yes, this post is why I'm leaning town on Dannflor right now, even if I have a few concerns. He can see straight through how bad that was. "I've never done this as scum therefore that's a fake read" is staggering. First, how would I even know whether someone has

ever

done something? I doubt any of us read every single thing that other players do. Second, I would have had so many more pleasant games without anyone ever being able to do anything but townread me if "I haven't ever done it as scum therefore I'm town" was how reads worked.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

i still need to read kayjay

if gimli flips town however how

But the bolded was always true! Why now is what I'm wondering about

[Duelist Kage]

Hu Tao can you stop deliberately doing NAI stuff and start doing AI stuff?

Hu Tao can you stop deliberately doing NAI stuff and start doing AI stuff?

Why? It is literally 1.5 pages in? And why ask me this over everyone else?

Everyone else are not deliberately doing NAI things but are deliberately doing AI things

Do you feel confident enough to read me if I start?

I don't like this sequence from Hu. She seems overly defensive in response to Dragon telling her to do stuff. Then she questions Dragon's confidence in reading her which to me feels like she's trying to sow doubt in his mind

I disagree with this read for the most part. I appreciated Hu being willing to not play by DE's rules and it gave me definite town pings. I'm having some qualms about her at this point from later play, but I'll address that later if I still feel the same after I catch up.

[May]

i dont remember her putting stuff quite like that previously

@csf

[Duelist Kage]

VOTE: Gimli

I will switch back to DK if anyone wants to help me push her since I am 1.6 times as much confident on her as I am confident on Gimli. Also Gimli if you want me to unvote all you have to do is vote DK.

DK feels kinda appease-y and nice but I think that could just be a personality thing

Why do you scumread her?

Also

Uh

Where did this read come from? Appease-y and nice? Please explain.

[Duelist Kage]

Okay well since it’s a micro, these busses can’t get too long or you’ll actually kill me so please stop.

do you have reads tho, kay?

I think the game has had a lot of AI content and yet you gave no input

You may see things as AI but I’ve only played with 2 of these people so for everyone else, I can’t tell if it’s their personality, their play style or something that would indicate to me that they are scum. If you say there has been a lot, I can honestly say I can’t pinpoint much if any yet. If that’s going to make me a target or read as using being new as an excuse for being scum, I don’t know what else I can do. But it gets a little tiring when everything I do is construed as faking my inexperience or using it as an excuse, and that being used as a scumread on me.

This isn’t just about this game, it’s been in every game so I’m sorry for being a bit exhausted from defending myself from those specific accusations.

This is me in so many games still. And Gimli knows Kay is new, he should not have such high expectations for newcomers getting thrown into the fire trying to figure out not just how they play but how all these other people play.

Psssssssst, Kay

You should make an alt

Then just act like you know everything

Nobody will know whether you do or not

[Dannflor]

I think may is good at mafia

[Duelist Kage]

damn Black is here to play

Vote Hu with me? I'm fairly confident she's scum

I saw your case, but I'd expect most people to react defensively if someone asked them to start playing seriously on page 2

I guess I'll wait for her respond to the Dragon read thing, but I didn't really see an issue with her 50

Wow, I love how CSF has the same viewpoint on being expected to play seriously on page 2 as I have (it's obnoxious); and also thinks that this does not hold for me, for I am not allowed to post fluff.

Black's push on Hu feels stiff here, I'm not getting the sense of her really believing in it. I liked that she dug into Kay's history a bit though, so it's a bit of a wash and she's still sitting around null.

And I'm gonna have to sleep, I cannot just stay up all night replying to things like this.

[Duelist Kage]

So why are you appealing to other people instead of advising Gimli to take a breath?

tl;dr I don't get why this matters

I suppose it's possible I'm just salty about being scumread for 'lurking' by someone who can sit around and post all day, and expect too much from others to pick up on the obviously wrong-headed way of trying to make reads. If you've been actively defending Gimli for cause, I haven't gotten to it yet, I'll assess it when I can. Hopefully work tomorrow won't be as bad and I can do more.

[Datisi]

replacing KayJayQueue.

[Gimli]

kage is obvscum like DE figured out on page 3 or whatever

[Datisi]

JacksonVirgo replaces KayJayQueue.

[JacksonVirgo]

[JacksonVirgo]

Guys I’m coming in with a huge revelation for you all. I think Kay was town, and by extension JV too! Like it’s obvious guys, all you gotta do is just look at the rolecard they were given and it would be so clear!! I can’t believe none of you had used this strat prior, it’s literally foolproof