Mini 2332: A Mid-scummer Nights Dream II | GG

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Kyoko and then 1 of {Silver Ravens, Sunflower} we can throw in Ydrasse but I don't really feel that in my heart.
I'm not voting Silver Ravens today or ever before Kyoko is flipped.
I have good feelings about this game.
If you don't have good feelings about suspects, either find them or sheep the person who does and is known to be competent.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Can i lurk out this phase please?

ya sure vote kyoko

[Catgirl Chipotle]

I know you are very keen on this. I do think wolf Kyoto can do this. Just find it not more likely than a town Kyoto. What differences would we see if Kyoto was town here?

I mean if kyoko was town this would be a whole different game.
This is not a question that I know how to answer.
The matter of the situation is that there are people who are town, and there are people who are not town, and Kyoko is one of the people that are not town in this game.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Like, it's not a meta thing.
if she were town, she would simply just be town.

[ActionDan]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

How about you throw your read away and you sheep me

I love how direct and to the point you are Ali lol

But Dan, what do you think about how Ali said Kyo gets like that when Kyo is scum?

My memory of FA is a bit foggy but if I recall they were frequently a fade as town and scum and I am surprised they are Kiri because Kiri's play here regardless of alignment is rather sophisticated. So I suppose I am curious to learn more, and see what Ali is talking about with pulling all the stops etc in support of their scummates or even what it means to not lose wolf games in context

[ActionDan]

I know you are very keen on this. I do think wolf Kyoto can do this. Just find it not more likely than a town Kyoto. What differences would we see if Kyoto was town here?

I do get this. Many games I've had where the list pairs down to like 6-8 players and you just know ~75% are town. I think I may get there if I iso.

I mean if kyoko was town this would be a whole different game.
This is not a question that I know how to answer.
The matter of the situation is that there are people who are town, and there are people who are not town, and Kyoko is one of the people that are not town in this game.

[Von Payne]

Thread locked before I could post, but I took the time to reread Kirk's blessedly compact iso, thoughts below:

Rereading Kiri throughly now doesn't change my initial read after her Hu Tao case. That is still town. For the Hu case itself I remember catgirls describe it as cold and analytical but I still don't have that impression, it does have heart. I also do not see much to criticize Day 2. The focus on players pretty much dropped to just Von and Catgirls but I think that's very understandable as Kiri playing defensively in response to scumreads by both and having previous questions/concerns with either slot that clearly ballooned. I dont see how their posts and progression more likely would come from scum than town.

Will reread SR next.

Also as an aside I thought Gimli got very comfortable reading me as locktown for no good reason really and was thinking he might have been scum afterall. But am curious to hear why he went the other way for you Catgirl.

Still don't have a particularly strong scum suspect. I will be Isoing one by one.

How about you throw your read away and you sheep me

I love how direct and to the point you are Ali lol

But Dan, what do you think about how Ali said Kyo gets like that when Kyo is scum?

My memory of FA is a bit foggy but if I recall they were frequently a fade as town and scum and I am surprised they are Kiri because Kiri's play here regardless of alignment is rather sophisticated. So I suppose I am curious to learn more, and see what Ali is talking about with pulling all the stops etc in support of their scummates or even what it means to not lose wolf games in context

This does read as fence sitty

[Catgirl Chipotle]

My memory of FA is a bit foggy but if I recall they were frequently a fade as town and scum and I am surprised they are Kiri because Kiri's play here regardless of alignment is rather sophisticated. So I suppose I am curious to learn more, and see what Ali is talking about with pulling all the stops etc in support of their scummates or even what it means to not lose wolf games in context

FA has developed a lot over the years as a player

[Catgirl Chipotle]

I do get this. Many games I've had where the list pairs down to like 6-8 players and you just know ~75% are town. I think I may get there if I iso.

- There are 2 wolves on Hu Tao's wagon. Kyoko is hunting as if there are 2-3 wolves on wagon, as she thinks wolves are Von Payne + Me. This is what she wants you to believe.
- If not for Kyoko's efforts, I think it was decently likely we kill a wolf, like Aureal. Because she made the post that she did, she effectively influenced people into wanting to go Hu Tao over following Klick onto something like Aureal, because Day 1 we had a lot of people that people felt were ok to be killed off, it was a matter of wolves moving the vote to where they want it to be. There is a reason why I am saying Kyoko + Aureal = 2 wolves on wolf wagon.
- Additionally, Aureal is a 1-shot strongkill if I am correct. There is agency in wanting to protect this role to at least resolve a strongman shot before killing it.

- See 1900
- If Kyoko is not a wolf, what the fuck is happening in this game? I ultimately need Kyoko flipped because if she's town, it will help me figure this out and I would need to question everything that I know. It just makes sense.

[ActionDan]

I do think there was appetite for Aureal and as you said Klick was influential. If push came to shove and their was a tie say in Aureal / Hu wagons I would almost certainly have trusted klick and voted Aureal alone, and thats before reading Aureal that night

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Gun to head, is this a town post or a wolf post?

Can I just say how ironic this is considering you openly said you're going to "not talk to any of your wolfreads and ignore them?" I'm not as sold as my hydra partner is on you being a wolf Gimli but when your reads change entirely overly irl days with barely any posts in-between in some instances to justify those flips it's odd. Then to have the confidence to go "My wolfreads are so correct that I'm going to ignore them!" Like, to me you have to be a wolf making this up or this is a new level of egotistical delusion that I haven't seen before.

Let's not forget if I remember correctly a lot of this was made during the first moon phase.

Spoiler: some of my PT work

trying an experiment here to see if I survive day 2

I'm ISOing a random guess at a scum team: klick, catgirl and actiondan

catgirl: post #91 is very strange commentary post. I do not believe maria cares this much about people "talking about dreams so much" that she has to make any comment on it. *note to self: one post in and I'm already tunneling this slot*
#100 is bad mech as we all know
#102 is another comment that I just don't see maria feeling the need to make when she is a townie. it's clear that kyoko is either towning or emulating a towny perspective on dream guesses: yes the dream guesses are supposedly NAI, but can't there be towny ways to do that? I see no reason why they COULDN'T, and I see no point in maria talking down an early townlean like that unless she has reasons to either scumread the player or to scumread kyoko. again, filler commentary that sucks.
#112 is bad mech again

then klick finally shows up... repeating catgirl's bad mech reasoning. it's kind of a bad post, kinda awkward idk. post #126

AD shows up with #200. I remember seeing towny things in this post, but are they there really? it starts really bad with spitey comments that don't say anything about anything. I do kinda like the post, though. let's see how this goes.

catgirls #212: still scum. #215 is how scum townreads a towny. I should maybe bring this up tomorrow.

AD's #229: yeah I don't think AD is scum.

ok so like, catgirl is scum. but who is it scum with? my first impression is NOT with AD

and if both AD and hu tao are townies, then either klick went full TMI on d1, or klick is just a townie with good impressions.

I think the best defense for town!klick is that he tried a counterwagon to town!hu tao and also to maybe town!AD

he did go to aureal but I think it makes sense and I'm not so sure if aureal is indeed town or if she just pocketed me really hard.

I have to find other partners for catgirl anyway. I wonder if prism fits the bill.

yeah I don't think its aureal either

so prism, there's a lot of hmmmm stuff about her, isn't there? should be worth exploring

I don't hink #84 is such an organic thought on re-read. it feels just too much like posturing and making logical sounding posts that don't amount to much.

catgirl and prism are having a little disagreement on mechanics but it does NOT mean absolutely anything wrt their alignments, of course. what's worse is that prism used this later on to justify having a townread on the hydra because she 'doesnt think alisae would disagree with me on mechanics'. I'll catch that post and put here when I find it.

#158 also doesnt feel like a real thought and if prism is a townie and this is what she does as a townie then im not impressed at all and I think she is just not a very good scumhunter (in before scum dragoneater)

I will also note that the townread on hu tao could easily be TMI on her part. and that's because all the possible wagons were lending on townies anyway, so posturing with a defense of hu tao gives you townpoints.

#195 also just sounds like bullshit and not a real read.

I have to really case prism if I wanna put this through though.

I'll note that catgirl's #212 "I find Dragon's posting towny and I don't understand the townread's on Prism's slot.
There posting is very well written like reading a royal script, but I would've come to expect that as either alignment. If any of the people townreading them wish to expand more on why that would mean a lot" I once again have a problem with maria/ali having a problem with people's reads that don't talk about anyone specifically and that don't have a read on prism or anything like that. again, this is filler, this isn't solving.

#215-#216 is a whole lot of awkwardness from these players. I think they have high svs equity and I hope to god I'm right and getting somewhere with this.

I think its prism/catgirl and then, lets see...

I think AD townreading prism like that happens when he is a townie and she is scum or whatever but not when they're scum together, I don't think. or maybe? idk

I'll trust that ydra is town. I think I'll trust that klick is town.

goddammit I don't think its sunflower man. maybe its aureal after all? shit.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

ActionDan

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)
Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism
Aureal
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

dis where I'm at, I guess I need more kyoko

@maria: yeah, I'd say I could townread you if you were a townie but that just proves I am tunneling you from your very first posts so its a waste of saliva for everyone involved

let me update this

ActionDan

Von Payne (Black/Doctor Drew hydra)

Kyoko Kirigiri
Prism

Aureal
Catgirl Chipotle (Alisae/MariaR hydra)

Silver Ravens (GuyInFreezer/Dunnstral hydra)

Sunflower (fireisredsir/JupiterXV hydra)

Ydrasse

and that's the game and thanks for playing

It's so interesting that 1 post + replacement changes my read on this player completely because if you look at for example this post, the world view that Gimli is pushing is the exact same as what Kyoko wants

[Catgirl Chipotle]

I think wolves' path to victory relies on trying to get me miseliminated. It is ultimately a flawed gameplan. It will never happen.

[ActionDan]

I have to go back and look at votes but as far as timing goes I remember most votes on me and hu split even or so before klick posted and gimli supported klick's post. Then my wagon poofed and hu retained their votes anyway. I forgot where kiri was in that I think after?

Gun to head I get shot from indecisiveness as I don't know. Why am I and SR cross outs? But then who is he appealing to as scum really?

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Gun to head I get shot from indecisiveness as I don't know. Why am I and SR cross outs? But then who is he appealing to as scum really?

It's such a weird post but that's nto something I've seen wolves ever do.
Why would he respond to his scumread with that as a wolf? There's a slight feeling of "wanting to get found" as a villager there I think?
idunno I feel like the simple explanation is that 1 Gimli post is a town post.

[ActionDan]

I might have better luck reading enchant. 1841 is his one town post here.

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Enchant is townie, I agree

[Silver Ravens]

Looking through Aureal's iso, their interactions with Gimli do not feel like they are both mafia togther. They respond to Gimli several times with arguments and earlier they locked Gimli as town which Actiondan pointed out was premature.

[Ydrasse]

i be around tomorrow

[Von Payne]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

[Catgirl Chipotle]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

I have to be like this

[Catgirl Chipotle]

Would you rather deal with Maria?

[Von Payne]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

I have to be like this

I don't think your solve is fully correct

Sunflower is town

But my finger is definitely on the trigger and pressed against Kyo's head though

[Catgirl Chipotle]

What is giving me a bit of pause is that I know Ali likes to bully as scum

And they are clearly being a bully right now lol

But, they also are making so much sense.......I want to here from Kyo before I drop a vote

Dan is lowkey being scummy here as well, they aren't as fence sitty as town imo

I have to be like this

I don't think your solve is fully correct

Sunflower is town

But my finger is definitely on the trigger and pressed against Kyo's head though

After Kyoko we should just be able to take our sweet time with it.

[Kyoko Kirigiri]

I do get this. Many games I've had where the list pairs down to like 6-8 players and you just know ~75% are town. I think I may get there if I iso.

- There are 2 wolves on Hu Tao's wagon. Kyoko is hunting as if there are 2-3 wolves on wagon, as she thinks wolves are Von Payne + Me. This is what she wants you to believe.
- If not for Kyoko's efforts, I think it was decently likely we kill a wolf, like Aureal. Because she made the post that she did, she effectively influenced people into wanting to go Hu Tao over following Klick onto something like Aureal, because Day 1 we had a lot of people that people felt were ok to be killed off, it was a matter of wolves moving the vote to where they want it to be. There is a reason why I am saying Kyoko + Aureal = 2 wolves on wolf wagon.
- Additionally, Aureal is a 1-shot strongkill if I am correct. There is agency in wanting to protect this role to at least resolve a strongman shot before killing it.
- See 1900
- If Kyoko is not a wolf, what the fuck is happening in this game? I ultimately need Kyoko flipped because if she's town, it will help me figure this out and I would need to question everything that I know. It just makes sense.

Entertain me.

Assume I am flipped and its green. What you learn about the game?