Mini Normal 2333 | woah that's a lot of 3's | It's Gypover !

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Oh shizz the game started while I was oversleeping

Hiya folks, I’m traveling today so activity should be horribly inconsistent. Looking forward to getting unreasonably paranoid about all of you

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VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

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VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

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VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet

Come now, it's not realistic for mafia to kowtow to everyone's townie standards at once. I think all of us here are different enough in what we look for in order for that to be the case, so honesty is almost certainly the best policy. Personally, I think the towniest thing someone can do is defend a person who's currently unpopular with a well-reasoned argument

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Come now, it's not realistic for mafia to kowtow to everyone's townie standards at once.

Umm, are you saying you're mafia?

That's a bit of a stretch.

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Spoiler: quote wall

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet
-SNIP-

Would you say that this behavior is AI though? Like do you think it's more just ineffective or more indicative of scum intentions in this instance?

I’m not experienced enough to speak in absolutes here, but it absolutely can be. Prodding readless people this early into D1 is a super LHF way to male yourself look like you’re doing something solvy, which benefits scum

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(yes I know the irony of my word choice in the first sentence, but you get the point I’m trying to make lol. Can’t say it absolutely is AI, but it can be)

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snip

Who are you referring to when you say it's not realistic for mafia to kowtow? Why use "mafia" there and not "town" or "players"?
I don't generally agree with the notion of "slips", but this feels like there is a subtle mafia point of view aspect to the post.

I don't understand this question, or the conclusion you're getting. I told yess that it's unproductive for him to hide his thoughts on people/standards for voting someone, because we're probably all different enough that mafia won't be able to fit everyone's preferred townie image at once. Judging by how left-field your response is, I can only assume that you misunderstood the conversation.

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Spoiler: quote wall

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet
-SNIP-

Would you say that this behavior is AI though? Like do you think it's more just ineffective or more indicative of scum intentions in this instance?

I’m not experienced enough to speak in absolutes here, but it absolutely can be. Prodding readless people this early into D1 is a super LHF way to male yourself look like you’re doing something solvy, which benefits scum

(yes I know the irony of my word choice in the first sentence, but you get the point I’m trying to make lol. Can’t say it absolutely is AI, but it can be)

I'm a little confused. What's the point of saying that something can be alignment indicative but might not be? If you don't feel strongly about it one way or the other then why mention it?

Because Smiley asked for my opinion? If I'm not 100% sure about something I think, I'll say so; that situation shouldn't disqualify things from deserving to be said.

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This exchange reads like scumdistancing imo, just a lot of worst-faith readings of each other and not a ton of substance.

For Brian, I just don't get any read on how he wants to act/what impact he wants to have on the game. The "analyzer" thing and the talk around that is especially weird.

For PC, I just think his early selfvote and posting habits since then have kinda invited this kind of argument, and there's not much benefit for him to continue engaging with it atp

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VOTE: Brian Skies

You're all over the place right now, your response to Smiley seems to confirm that you're making up reasons to hound PC as you go along.

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You're all over the place right now, your response to Smiley seems to confirm that you're making up reasons to hound PC as you go along.

How so?

A lot of your responses to PC's individual comments have been needlessly antagonistic, especially in the last page and a half, and it feeds into my earlier concern about worst-faith readings of each other. Smiley brings up a good point about it being weird that the rolefishing stuff is only just coming up now, and the "analyzer" business you discussed was not at all consistent with your earlier posting in the thread, making it seem like something you made up on the spot to deflect PC's criticism. You also say that nobody really jumped on the PC wagon so you didn't push it, but multiple people besides you/PC voted him around that time so I certainly don't buy that.

In general you come off as someone who isn't properly showing their thought processes, and you play it off by suggesting we should all just know what you're thinking. That's not a super healthy dynamic to bring to the thread, and it feels anti-town.

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Current reads, not ordered with in categories since I don't have the braincells for it rn:

TOWN
Smiley
Random Nurse
Greeting
Hu Tao

NULL
PenguinPower
KayJayQueue

MIXED
Political Clout
Titus
davesaz
yessiree

SCUM
Brian Skies
BlackStar

Surprisingly even spread all things considered

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You're all over the place right now, your response to Smiley seems to confirm that you're making up reasons to hound PC as you go along.

How so?

A lot of your responses to PC's individual comments have been needlessly antagonistic, especially in the last page and a half, and it feeds into my earlier concern about worst-faith readings of each other. Smiley brings up a good point about it being weird that the rolefishing stuff is only just coming up now, and the "analyzer" business you discussed was not at all consistent with your earlier posting in the thread, making it seem like something you made up on the spot to deflect PC's criticism. You also say that nobody really jumped on the PC wagon so you didn't push it, but multiple people besides you/PC voted him around that time so I certainly don't buy that.

In general you come off as someone who isn't properly showing their thought processes, and you play it off by suggesting we should all just know what you're thinking. That's not a super healthy dynamic to bring to the thread, and it feels anti-town.

What are you even talking about the rolefishing stuff 'only coming up now'? It's been two days and only 9 pages into the game. To say something from the early game is suddenly 'whoa, that's from so long ago, why is it suddenly a concern' is preposterous.

The people who jumped on the wagon were Dave and yessiree. I was hoping they saw the same thing I did, but neither of them voted for the same reason I did.

And no one jumped on after me.

By people jumping onto the wagon, I mean for the rolefishing. Which is what we were talking about. And we even had people say they liked the 'rolefishing' posts with no real rebuttal, which, once again, makes me think people were mostly okay with those posts.

I didn't say you should all know what I'm thinking. I even said people can ask. But there hasn't been much for me to comment on, because I don't find a lot of the discussion or what's happened alignment indicative.

What do you mean by worst-faith readings of each other?

I'm not saying "woah, that's from so long ago" about anything, that's disingenuous. The point is that it should've been discussed earlier instead of getting dredged up during a separate spat. Am I used to faster games where D1 would be done by now? Yes. Is that really coming into play here? No.

That's a silly perspective to have about the wagon. People can be on the same wagon with different reasons for it. Just because you were the last one aboard before it fizzled out doesn't mean it was a non-starter.

snip

By worst-faith I mean that if I put myself in your shoes whilst talking with PC, I would probably be less standoffish, regardless of how suspicious I'd be about PC's thread behavior. I would have to make a conscious effort to react the way you reacted to his retorts, which makes me read it as contrived and anti-town.

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TOWN

Greeting

TOWNREADS

SmileyDude1
StraightFlush

TOWNLEANS

yessiree
davesaz

NULL

Hu Tao
PenguinPower
Random Nurse
KayJayQueue

EH?

Brian Skies
Political Clout
Titus

SCUMREADS

BlackStar

Nice color coding, I should try doing stuff like that on this site

Interested to hear about those takes on Dave and Nurse, not what I was expecting.

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This exchange reads like scumdistancing imo, just a lot of worst-faith readings of each other and not a ton of substance.

For Brian, I just don't get any read on how he wants to act/what impact he wants to have on the game. The "analyzer" thing and the talk around that is especially weird.

For PC, I just think his early selfvote and posting habits since then have kinda invited this kind of argument, and there's not much benefit for him to continue engaging with it atp

I'm not at all convinced if this is scum distancing. I do think there is a decent chance of at least one scum amongst these two though.

Yeah the rest of the convo after that definitely made me come closer to your interpretation

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Current reads, not ordered with in categories since I don't have the braincells for it rn:

TOWN
Smiley
Random Nurse
Greeting
Hu Tao

NULL
PenguinPower
KayJayQueue

MIXED
Political Clout
Titus
davesaz
yessiree

SCUM
Brian Skies
BlackStar

Surprisingly even spread all things considered

Why am I town

You haven't posted much but your content has been consistently substantive so far, which I think is a towny behavior pattern early-game. You don't seem bothered by people voting you, which is also towny, and we're also mindmelding quite a bit so there might be a bit of bias there

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Spoiler:

VOTE:

VOTE: yessiree

I agree that this inconsistency from him is very strange.

What inconsistency

You say you want to get some wagons going, and you’re willing to attempt starting a wagon on someone because they won’t feed into that, but you also say you don’t expect current votes to mean much of anything since we’re still in the feel-it-out phase? Those two don’t really go together, why vote people and start wagons when they won’t mean anything yet

You also say in the same post that you won’t share what you’re looking for in a wagon/what your standards for voting are, which is scummy behavior in its own right imo

I see, but you're confusing two things here. I said I'm not expecting votes to be well justified at this stage because I saw people were putting too much emphasis on this. That's not the same as having no reads at all which is Hu's case, and kinda why I was poking at her.

And I think it's pretty self-explanatory I'm obviously not telling y'all what I consider are scummy behaviours so you can do the towny thing instead the scummy thing

I've never gotten the appeal behind using votes to "poke" people personally. Let them get up to speed on their own. At the time Hu said they had no reads, I also happened to not have any reads yet

Come now, it's not realistic for mafia to kowtow to everyone's townie standards at once. I think all of us here are different enough in what we look for in order for that to be the case, so honesty is almost certainly the best policy. Personally, I think the towniest thing someone can do is defend a person who's currently unpopular with a well-reasoned argument

what if they never get up to speed? where do you draw the line? I disagree with this on a more playstyle level, being proactive (pushing and poking) is always better than being reactive (waiting for mafia to make a mistake)

if you think everyone is different in what AI-indicative behaviors they look for, I don't see why you would have an issue with me poking and prodding people? since seeing how they react to pressure is exactly how I like make reads early on

am not sure what you mean by the last part, are you saying Hu Tao is unpopular and anyone who defends her is townie?

It's a "you know it when you see it" type of deal. Depends on the pace of the game; I have no experience with this slow-paced of a game (or at least one that's set up like that), so I can't comment much further. If you find that frustratingly vague, I understand.

I'm just sharing my thoughts, you don't need to change your whole playstyle because I criticized it. Sorry if I implied I thought that.

Last part isn't linked to Hu Tao at all, I think you may have missed the point of that.

As for the LHF thing I just disagree. You can't become a wasp's nest as a D1 lowposter, that kind of status is reserved for high-volume people who are acting weird imo. I know a lot of people are suspicious of early lowposters by default, and I am too sometimes, but I see it as an unhealthy habit that I want to mitigate.

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PenguinPower I can’t get a proper impression of you at all, what are your wider thoughts on the game rn

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Your honor, I move that Titus’ suggestion be stricken from the record

(serious take: I respect people who don’t like voting completely new players D1, but returning players with 10k+ posts? Cmon)

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All that means in my case is that I’m not basing my vote on meta in any way. Just what I see with my own eyes in this game.

+1 to this, your own standards > someone else’s meta when it comes to making reads.

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Not really interested in limming bs day 1 on his first game back in ages.

good - this is his second game back in ages.

VOTE: political clout

it reads exactly how it's typed out

good - as in that's a good point it's a good post it's a good thing

it's his second game back in ages - correcting them and then repeating the sentiment.

That's not how I read it at all. I thought Penguin was pointing that out as if to say "even if I share your sentiment, it's not relevant here bc it's not his first game back. Therefore I'm still willing to vote him if I think it's good"

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Of course it's hard to prove that viewpoint when Penguin seems to have no intention of voting Brian regardless but I digress

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now that we're on the same page, got any new revelation from this revelation?

I don't think we're on the same page.

Are you sure? I'm pretty sure all three of us are on page 14

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Then again, I feel icky about jumping on the

Brian Skies

wagon, because I could very well see their posts coming from a townie perspective and also I feel icky about most people who already are voting them.

What do you think a better vote is?

I think

Random Nurse

contributed very little and I'm happy with that wagon building up. The posts I read while running his ISO seemed like he really had nothing to say even in the few times when he did post.

VOTE: Random Nurse

I disagree with the premise of this vote. Nurse has been inactive for a while for unknown reasons to the point of a modprod, and we've had zero chance to see them catch up to important thread activities like the Brian wagon, the whole PC v. Brian thing, Titus actually doing stuff, etc. Not really reasonable to go here until he's engaged again

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Gm, hasn’t realized the wagons were neck and neck like that until the votals got posted. Could definitely see scum being on both

Hu Tao trying to play kingmaker with who gets hammered seems scummy, but in a “this is so obviously scummy that scum wouldn’t bother trying it” way so idk

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Gm, hasn’t realized the wagons were neck and neck like that until the votals got posted. Could definitely see scum being on both

Hu Tao trying to play kingmaker with who gets hammered seems scummy, but in a “this is so obviously scummy that scum wouldn’t bother trying it” way so idk

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StraightFlush fell for the bait. So he's probably scum.

I'm going to say Dave/StraightFlush/????

If dave and I are scummates, that was some pretty clumsy distancing from him earlier when he accused me of slipping for no reason

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StraightFlush fell for the bait. So he's probably scum.

I'm going to say Dave/StraightFlush/????

If dave and I are scummates, that was some pretty clumsy distancing from him earlier when he accused me of slipping for no reason

wait slipping on what?

Go read dave's 163 and the posts it references. As a correction, it was actually BlackStar that first suggested it but dave latched onto the idea quite quickly afterward

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StraightFlush fell for the bait. So he's probably scum.

I'm going to say Dave/StraightFlush/????

If dave and I are scummates, that was some pretty clumsy distancing from him earlier when he accused me of slipping for no reason

So you refute that you and Dave are partners but not that you’re scum. Noted!

Ah yes, because me saying "i am town" over and over again would be so useful for convincing people that I'm town

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StraightFlush fell for the bait. So he's probably scum.

I'm going to say Dave/StraightFlush/????

If dave and I are scummates, that was some pretty clumsy distancing from him earlier when he accused me of slipping for no reason

wait slipping on what?

Go read dave's 163 and the posts it references. As a correction, it was actually BlackStar that first suggested it but dave latched onto the idea quite quickly afterward

I never accused you of that

My bad, I mistook you for making a comment that was also made by dave for some reason. So yes, it was just dave making the weird accusation when I look back at the convo

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Brian went back into hiding after coming out of vla to thunderdome with me.

I'm actually keeping up with the game. Just not a lot of stuff that interests me.

Except the part about you being the scum counterwagon. Which if true, then scum have decided they'd rather let me live, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

You say this after being party to the single biggest confrontation of the game so far, and while you're two votes away from hammer. The lack of self-awareness here is astounding.

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UNVOTE:

I have reached the conclusion that if Brian is scum, then he is an inconceivably bad player. I am not ready to make that assumption.

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Considering a vote on either Greeting or KayJayQueue. Perhaps Random Nurse too if he continues to get nowhere in terms of thread presence

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Considering a vote on either Greeting or KayJayQueue. Perhaps Random Nurse too if he continues to get nowhere in terms of thread presence

What would be your reasoning for a vote on me?

While I disagree with his methods/attittude to some extent, I think Penguin's desire to start a third wagon is towny atp. Targeting a null slot is often preferable to picking between wagons that you feel are TvT with some confidence.

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Quick Readlist time
(Feel better about)
(Feel neutral/eh about)
(Feel worse about)

yellow

= stale read, should be adapted at some point. Though depending on pertinence and inner motivation (warding off my inner lazeball), I may not get around to all of these immediately.

(Blackstar,

greeting

,

Straightflush

, Political Clout)
(

PenguinPower

,Titus, Yessirree, Hu Tao, KayJayQueue)
(Random Nurse, Davesaz, Brian Skies)

greeting and straight were more mind meld reads (found myself agreeing with a lot of what they were saying), that part of my brain became paranoid of (though another part of my brain thinks it may be getting influenced by recent thread events). probs my top priorities in terms of a relook.

Penguin is a case where I feel like they've done a lot to the point they probs shouldn't be in neutral but I haven't gotten around to sorting it yet. Like my gut says it feels good, but I my brain says take another look to be sure. Don't find that one to be a particularly pertinent read to sort atm though.

Nurse and Dave also could be put into stale read given both of those suspicions date back to stuff that happened a while ago now, though I don't think either has really done much since then that warrants raising them. A case of need to see more in that seense

Decent list, but I find it hard to believe that Titus and yessiree could be anything resembling null at present. Perhaps a better explanation is in order.

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How do you feel about his most recent posts?

NAI in a vacuum but when you combine it with just how long it’s been since he was really substantive it starts to get concerning. Definitely more amenable to voting him than I would’ve been three days ago

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Straightflush/yessireee prob has at least 1 scum

Okay I'm going back to my read of Brian might be scum if Yessir is town. So I'm OK with voting out Brian

VOTE: brian

UNVOTE:

Actually nvm for now

this makes sense

How do you figure? I'm finding HT's reads increasingly hard to follow.

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Conclusion: I don't think Brian's PC read is real. I feel like if they were voting PC for AI behavior specifically, they'd have been more likely to allude to that at some point before their argument, and their interaction with PC before they stated the reason they voted there doesn't feel like it was approached in the manner I'd expect if they harbored a preexisting scumlean/scumread of the slot. This feels like it's a justification made in post in response to PC pressuring them to me.

interesting cause thats how i feel about PC in that whole back and forth between them

i think we just have fundamental differences in what we consider scummy/townie, but part of my townraed on brian also comes from the last game so theres a bit of meta involved. Things like being confrontational and assertive early on, being critical of the gamestate as time goes on, etc

A bit of mindmelding here. Both reads feel like they originated from inconsequential stuff and got increasingly strong because they continued arguing, not vice versa. That's why I feel PC/Brian is probably TvT currently

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VOTE: Greeting

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Which wagon so far has had the most resistance?

This is a strange question to ask as your first real involvement with the game in forever. What’s the intent here?

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Replacing Greeting, the deadline will be frozen at 18 hours

?????????????????????

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If they replaced because life happens, tough but understandable

If they're scum and ragequit, this whole game is a farce

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Alright, time for some late-night wagon analysis.

Firstly, based on the lack of a counterwagon or ANY tangible resistance to Greeting's wagon after it formed, there has to be a heavy scum presence on it imo. If we're dealing with a 10-3 setup, two mafia are on that wagon minimum. I'm willing to be pulled off this theory later if the evidence points to it, but that's what I'm proceeding on for now.

Secondly, Smiley being chosen as the NK tells us quite a bit after reading his ISO. I don't really do detailed readings and note-taking for ISOs much but you can really get a good idea of where his head was at because he was so active. Great town player tbh, let's get on with the loose analysis

Titus: As the originator of the Greeting wagon and the one who really only talked about how much they wanted to launch Greeting past a certain point in the phase, the easy thing to do is point the finger at him. However, I think it's unlikely atp because of how they handled their post-VLA thread presence. They were the lowest poster by far and exclusively tunnelled Greeting past a certain point, which is extremely nooby scumplay and not something I'd expect from anyone in this game, not even myself. I think they were more convinced than most of us that PC/Brian was TvT, but remember that MOST OF US WERE WILLING TO BELIEVE THAT PC/BRIAN WAS TVT REGARDLESS. To the point that we turboed them with no CW. So it's hard to blame Titus for their position.

Me: I was the first to sheep Titus. I look sus. If you scumread Titus or me separately, this probably makes us look more sus. However, I maintain that I am town.

BlackStar: This guy keeps setting off alarm bells for me and this is the loudest one. He was not the FIRST to sheep Greeting, but the SECOND person, which is much better optics from a scum POV. He also didn't have any visible progression from sussing one of PC or Brian to being convinced enough about Greeting to turbo them MINUTES after the opportunity showed itself. His TP in general has also felt kinda sparse, like a lot of his interactions are just single posts spread out by about 12 hours to the point that he rarely ends up appearing in the same conversation more than once. Feels like scum trying to spread themselves out and seem more active/solvy than they actually are.

PenguinPower: Very hard to read for me, I think their thread behavior is broadly deserving of a scumlean because they were active during RVS then fell off slightly, and they also hopped on literally everyone who had anything resembling a wagon during the course of the phase. But their actual behavior within their posts makes them difficult to nail down. Not my first choice for a vote but scum!Penguin would fit kinda neatly into my hypothesis. Would be interested to see others' reads on this slot.

Davesaz: Null slot, not enough content despite no VLA. Some call that scummy in itself but he made vague references to being busy IRL so I'd leave it be for now. His few posted thoughts have been kinda scattered across topics and unclear with their intent (like with his allusions about the AIness of the rolefishing stuff and my alleged "scumslip"), so I can't really know where his headspace is at. True neutral, wouldn't be surprised at scum or town atp

SmileyDude1: He's fucking dead lmao rip

I'll go over the off-wagon stuff briefly but FUCKING HELL IT'S 2AM WHY DID I STAY UP TO WRITE THIS HALF-ASSED SHIT

Brian Skies/KayJayQueue: Lumping them together b/c my thoughts are simple. I think their stance on the Greeting wagon and how they handled it leans towny based on the idea that they smelled a rat and wanted to chase something else. Titus in KJQ's case, PC in Brian's case. Both valid scumreads. However this could also read as distancing depending on how obvious they thought town would find the scumminess of the Greeting wagon. Hence TLs, not TRs.

Hu Tao: As horrible as they've been about explaining their scumreads on myself and Dave, I was among the first on the Greeting wagon and Dave followed later. I can't be too surprised. Seems towny because scum!HT would know I'm town and have no reason to scumread and antagonize me after I defended them earlier in the phase. Can't speak to their behavior on Dave, they might just be naturally suspicious of lowposters or think the scumslip thing was sloppy distancing.

PC: My only reasonably strong off-wagon scumread. Smiley's ISO reads to me as someone who would be very dangerous to scum!PC: someone who isn't tunneling him or even actively campaigning against him, but always keeping him in the corner of his eye throughout the phase despite its many shifts. Read for yourself and you might disagree, but I'm not feeling as good about PC now. However his D1 behavior still felt towny to me, so I'll have to reconcile that somehow.

Not voting anywhere until I hear other thoughts, my vote habits will be terrible if I just focus on my own interpretation of the flips.

Oh I forgot about yessiree. Must ISO him. Too tired. Will do later, hopefully.

[StraightFlush]

HEY, you forgot SOMEONE.

Oh yeah! You tried to hammer but epically failed as yessiree got the buzzer-beater shot. Not sure how to feel about that if you were as absent from the thread as you say you were. I’ll jot you down as mixed

[StraightFlush]

Good morning... or afternoon. I've been making progress on improving my sleep schedule lately but this was a setback.

Here's a full readlist:
TOWNREAD
StraightFlush
Titus
Brian Skies

TOWNLEAN
KayJayQueue
Hu Tao

NULL
Davesaz

MIXED
Random Nurse
Political Clout
yessiree

SCUMREAD
PenguinPower
BlackStar

[StraightFlush]

Just read yessiree's ISO. I can see why the wagon is forming here.

[StraightFlush]

Good morning... or afternoon. I've been making progress on improving my sleep schedule lately but this was a setback.

Here's a full readlist:
TOWNREAD
StraightFlush
Titus
Brian Skies

TOWNLEAN
KayJayQueue
Hu Tao

NULL
Davesaz

MIXED
Random Nurse
Political Clout
yessiree

SCUMREAD
PenguinPower
BlackStar

You've been saying for a while now that you scum read me, so why haven't you voted for me? What are you waiting for?

Because Penguin voted you and I have no clue what to make of that based on where my reads are at and it’s making me scared

[StraightFlush]

the votecount right about you shows that statement to be inaccurate...

No fucking way I just read the votecount backwards

VOTE: BlackStar

[StraightFlush]

I still don’t understand why you’ve been saying I’m your top scum read for so long but you didn’t vote for me until I asked you about it

When have I ever said you’re my top scumread? Sure I sussed you D1 but that was very much in the background compared to the other events happening

[StraightFlush]

If you think I order my readlists by read strength, I don’t.

[StraightFlush]

Brian did WORK climbing that reads list!

400 felt like a divine revelation to me lmao

[StraightFlush]

Town

Brian Skies
KayJayQueue
PenguinPower
Random Nurse
BlackStar
davesaz
Titus
StraightFlush
Political Clout
Hu Tao

Scum

Anyway, where my head is at. I'm ok with limming any 1 of the bottom 3

Where does the Penguin townread come from? What’s the deal with BlackStar? Are your opinions influenced by Smiley’s ISO at all? What do you make of Nurse attempting to hammer at the “same time” as you? Why did you hammer Greeting after heavily shading the wagon based on its speed? Why would you hammer too fast for Greeting to respond after complaining that the wagon is too fast? After reading your posts back I don’t find satisfactory explanations for anything from EoD and this readlist doesn’t quite click for me.

[StraightFlush]

One question at a time buddy

Would be nice if he answered those directed toward him before asking a paragraph’s worth of his own.

If you’re referring to 621, that came off to me as only half-serious bordering on shitposty, which would line up with most of your posts. I don’t acknowledge that stuff when I’m not in a fluffy mood.

[StraightFlush]

One question at a time buddy

Would be nice if he answered those directed toward him before asking a paragraph’s worth of his own.

I’m also interested in finding out who his top scum read is

You are now, why else would I be voting for you. Reading my SoD wallpost makes any other reading impossible; if you read back, you’ll notice that my objection yesterday was limited to you thinking it had been that way since D1 based on an ordering system that actually meant nothing.

[StraightFlush]

You hven’t asked anything that hasn’t been explained well enough in the last few pages buddy

[StraightFlush]

Dude this is a bad-faith reading of events and you know it, get the OMGUS out of my face. And you have the fucking gall to whinge about authenticity.

[StraightFlush]

And penguin sheeps him. This is doing so much to confirm that at least one of you is scum

[StraightFlush]

The moment that I question you about this you finally vote for me

Does 608-611 mean nothing to you?

Also I assume your nonsense is mainly based on my 614, but the only thing I say there is that I have never SAID you were my top scumread, not that you aren’t it currently. Even in my wallpost where I outline the case against you, I don’t actually say that and that should be worth noting. Your interpretation reads more like scum insecurity about how much you’re being sussed, to the point that you need clarification form me in order to adjust your behavior accordingly.

[StraightFlush]

If you think my framing of this is scummy I can see why, so go off I guess. But that doesn’t change the fact that your view, and thus your vote, is derived from a bad reading.

[StraightFlush]

snip

There were certain things I saw in D1 (outlined in post) which I felt could be scummy, and I felt that your behavior around the Greeting wagon was the scummiest of those things. Simple stuff. Anything else, officer?

[StraightFlush]

Granted most of my move is SF acting like a pretentious jackass. I may go back when I settle down.

Either you’re blindly blazing a bluntly bad trail with this bothersome BlackStar blowhard, or you’re scummates. Of course I’m going to get heated about that when it’s my interpretation of events.

[StraightFlush]

And the name calling is uncalled for

Apologies, alliteration is quite alluring.

[StraightFlush]

snip

There were certain things I saw in D1 (outlined in post) which I felt could be scummy, and I felt that your behavior around the Greeting wagon was the scummiest of those things. Simple stuff. Anything else, officer?

So you believed that my actions were the scummiest but I wasn’t your top scum read?

No, I said that your EoD behavior was the scummiest thing YOU had done up to that point (disregarding what’s happened since). That entire paragraph was only in reference to you, was that bot obvious enough from your name being the title of it?

[StraightFlush]

A wagon on straightflish? I see this as an absolute win

VOTE: straightflush

How do you feel about your two stronger scumreads not being in thread at all?

[StraightFlush]

Strange.

Would you like to explain your read on me further? Clearly your reaction indicates that you've been harboring it for a bit.

[StraightFlush]

Strange.

Would you like to explain your read on me further? Clearly your reaction indicates that you've been harboring it for a bit.

If you checked my ISO, this shouldn't be news for you.

I'm happy voting with two of my stronger townleans

Bullcrap, the only origin I can find is you jokingly mindmelding with Hu Tao (your top scumread) about their theory that they gave no explanation for.

Where is your townread on Penguin coming from, what sticks out to you as towny based on his behavior? And based on your list BlackStar seemed null, was I wrong about that? Why didn't you clarify that when I directly asked you earlier?

[StraightFlush]

I’m inherently for a yessiree wagon, but there’s no utility in me jumping on that so I’m spreading my feelers

Smart. Might be a bus happening here, either way I smell a rat with that wagon

[StraightFlush]

KJQ your behavior around Titus almost feels like tunneling at this point, it would help me a lot if you told me why you're so much stronger on them than anyone else. You don't strike me as someone with NO other scumreads, just no others that you're pursuing at all.

[StraightFlush]

KJQ your behavior around Titus almost feels like tunneling at this point, it would help me a lot if you told me why you're so much stronger on them than anyone else. You don't strike me as someone with NO other scumreads, just no others that you're pursuing at all.

I am literally voting yessiree?

After not explaining at all or showing any prior of suspicion of them? It's very sheepy fmpov, need to cover all my bases here. You don't strike me as the kind of person who would hop on a wagon just because it's more popular than what you want, especially when you seem so convinced of Titus.

[StraightFlush]

My current scumpool is yessiree, penguin, Titus and an outside maybe of BlackStar. I haven’t hidden these reads, I don’t think I’m being too tunnel-y on Titus.

Okay fair, rereading your ISO you do talk about Penguin beyond echoing my posts. My bad. But then why are you hopping on a suspiciously fast wagon that was started by Penguin? Are you going to die on the hill that he's teamed with yessiree? I don't think that's wise.

[StraightFlush]

:igmeoy: jackson. I think titus might be an easy person to go after in this game state and with titus being sick and away just not believable scum read to me. I think straightflush is just a frustrated townie. I think our current path leads to glory as well. we should lim yessirree.

Is your thoughts on the titus wagon here biased somewhat by your push for yessiree?

I suspect town!PC would be in the same headspace as me with my SoD wallpost, which had a similar angle on Titus before the yessiree wagon formed. However, it's also an easy angle for scum!PC to take to appear ahead of the curve.

[StraightFlush]

Jackson finally giving me a decent read on the Dave slot that seems towny at this stage. Will keep monitoring

[StraightFlush]

no matter how fishy it smells.

You smell like a dead trout.

[StraightFlush]

For anyone wondering what the deal is, I'm open to the possibility that KJQ tried to pocket me during the BlackStar affair.

[StraightFlush]

For anyone wondering what the deal is, I'm open to the possibility that KJQ tried to pocket me during the BlackStar affair.

You wish lol

No, I'm sincerely hoping I'm wrong. Your posting seems broadly towny otherwise.

[StraightFlush]

They’ve been non-committal, they’ve added incredibly little of actual input outside of attempting to step between their so-called tvt back and forth only to go back on that cuz it “went stale” followed by a blind/naked vote on yessiree with a promise for vca. It’s not a good look

Based on what's been happening with Titus during the game, I trust that they'll come back with some decent VCA when they have the time.

I feel like your interpretation of the slot is hamstrung by the limitations of catchup thread analysis

[StraightFlush]

Are we getting a PC thunderdome two days in a row... hoo boy

[StraightFlush]

They’ve been non-committal, they’ve added incredibly little of actual input outside of attempting to step between their so-called tvt back and forth only to go back on that cuz it “went stale” followed by a blind/naked vote on yessiree with a promise for vca. It’s not a good look

Based on what's been happening with Titus during the game, I trust that they'll come back with some decent VCA when they have the time.

I feel like your interpretation of the slot is hamstrung by the limitations of catchup thread analysis

If they do, that’s great. Can you expand on that second bit?

In my personal experience I find that lowposters are harder to read on catch-up, you have to kinda be in the moment and understand the timing of their few posts to really understand why they choose to be involved when they do

[StraightFlush]

The issue with scum!Titus is that it's needlessly risky for them to start a wagon on a townflip (Greeting) when there was already clear sentiment expressed by myself and a couple others (iirc) that PC v. Brian was likely TvT, in which case Greeting appears the obvious culprit as someone who refrained from dirtying their hands with either wagon. If Titus wasn't going to start the Greeting wagon, I absolutely would have, and if not me then perhaps someone else like Davesaz. Scum!Titus would be able to read that and wait for it, but instead he chose to take the lead and I consider that towny. I would expect scum to act more like BlackStar did (third on, very sudden shift from elsewhere), which I've already mentioned in my SoD wallpost.

[StraightFlush]

Titus is a seasoned player, maybe she knew being first on would read as towny. (just a possibility)

Perhaps I will entertain that when BlackStar flips town. But until then I think my theory inspires more confidence.

[StraightFlush]

The issue with scum!Titus is that it's needlessly risky for them to start a wagon on a townflip (Greeting) when there was already clear sentiment expressed by myself and a couple others (iirc) that PC v. Brian was likely TvT, in which case Greeting appears the obvious culprit as someone who refrained from dirtying their hands with either wagon. If Titus wasn't going to start the Greeting wagon, I absolutely would have, and if not me then perhaps someone else like Davesaz. Scum!Titus would be able to read that and wait for it, but instead he chose to take the lead and I consider that towny. I would expect scum to act more like BlackStar did (third on, very sudden shift from elsewhere), which I've already mentioned in my SoD wallpost.

Why are you considering taking the lead as townie? I don’t see how that’s risky personally, risky would mean they could have gotten backlash from it but from where I stand greeting was a natural pivot point. Titus isn’t dumb either. I don’t see how waiting for it does anything for scum!titus that isn’t gained + more from them making a move themselves even if it didn’t go the way it did. The only risk I see is it going nowhere which is hardly a risk

I think you're running yourself around in circles here by reading too deeply into Titus' actions. That's not a healthy thing to do when you've just joined the game and operate on bad memory.

A townie takes the lead with a Greeting wagon almost every time because Greeting's behavior is so obviously scummy in a TvT PC-Brian world that you don't have much fear pursuing it, which we clearly saw with how the final wagon panned out.

[StraightFlush]

We don’t know PC vs Brian was TvT 100%. We are operating on this assumption but not facts.

Greeting flipping town means I'm not fully operating on that either, I'm quite suspicious of PC at present. But I need to hammer into Jackson's head what was actually happening D1

[StraightFlush]

VOTE: Titus

Ok. JV might be scum.

Thinking of an omgus? Or do you have another really, really good reason?

[StraightFlush]

I'm also not a huge fan of StraightFlush's townread on Titus and have slight concerns they could be linked.

Honestly surprised it took this long for someone to suggest that. Maybe we are both linked as townies

[StraightFlush]

The amount of people saying straightfish could be linked with someone makes me think straightfush is scum.

I agree, you think we should start a wagon on this StraightFish guy?

[StraightFlush]

hmmmmmm. Actually, this is an odd response since Titus is one of the main people that it's been said I could be linked to. Seems strangely defensive to draw that conclusion in this context

[StraightFlush]

VOTE: Brian Skies

Okay what i supposed to do?

Your question and your action seem contradictory. Enlighten us as to your intent here.

[StraightFlush]

A semi-inactive slot turning into a chaotic slot? I'm not sure if this is an improvement.

[StraightFlush]

hmmmmmm. Actually, this is an odd response since Titus is one of the main people that it's been said I could be linked to. Seems strangely defensive to draw that conclusion in this context

Well now she’s distancing (my interpretation of the vote, but maybe not), how do you feel about that? Does the scumread feel genuine?

Not sure what to make of it atm, been thinking it over nonstop since she voted. It would help, Titus, if you could explain your 838. Maybe it's obvious and just going over my head, but why does the talk about me being "linked" to a variety of people translate to scumminess?

[StraightFlush]

Not really that defensive fmpov, and you choosing to call it out only makes me more sure I'm onto something with that observation. On the bright side, it probably gives me a reason to townread you even harder

[StraightFlush]

Not really that defensive fmpov

, and you choosing to call it out only makes me more sure I'm onto something with that observation. On the bright side, it probably gives me a reason to townread you even harder

Didn't you call Titus defensive here?

hmmmmmm. Actually, this is an odd response since Titus is one of the main people that it's been said I could be linked to.

Seems strangely defensive to draw that conclusion in this context

It seems I misread, I thought Titus was calling me defensive there so I was responding to that with disagreement. Shit I really shouldn't read this thread right after waking up

[StraightFlush]

If I had a nickel for every time someone scumread me for unrealistically sloppy "scumdistancing" in this game, I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird that it happened twice

[StraightFlush]

If you think that progression is scummy then that's fine, you do you. I would like to clarify/point out a couple of things here though:

1. My shift to scumreading Greeting was based more on their behavior around PC v. Brian than the Nurse vote, although both played a part. I should specifically mention that someone insisting that a 1v1 is unaligned and voting for neither looks a lot more scummy when you think it's TvT, which I did based on Brian's behavior after a certain point.
2. 36 hours passed between me calling out Greeting's Nurse vote and me saying I was amenable to a Nurse vote, during which Nurse remained inactive/non-substantive; my previous objection to Greeting was based on the assumption that he'd come alive a bit more during that window.

[StraightFlush]

I still mostly townread you and think you've been pretty decent with discussion this game, so I'll assume the difference of interpretations here is in good faith, rather than some Word-Twisting Wally shenanigans.

[StraightFlush]

I still mostly townread you and think you've been pretty decent with discussion this game, so I'll assume the difference of interpretations here is in good faith, rather than some Word-Twisting Wally shenanigans.

[StraightFlush]

god dammit why did that duplicate

[StraightFlush]

I still mostly townread you and think you've been pretty decent with discussion this game, so I'll assume the difference of interpretations here is in good faith, rather than some Word-Twisting Wally shenanigans.

I never got the impression you were townreading me?

didn't you have me at null before

Getting turboed under those particular circumstances at SoD makes you more towny imo. Hammering makes you scumread LHF and real scum will get opportunistic about that.

[StraightFlush]

If BlackStar is town I’m gonna have a lot of fun seeing him try to process my flip. Almost wanna lim myself just to see that, might be a good litmus test

[StraightFlush]

VOTE: Hu Tao

Can't go wrong with that

How far aling are you in your catchup?

[StraightFlush]

Unbelievable.

VOTE: Emchant

Replacing semi-dead weight with fully dead weight does not, in fact, improve the gamestate. Who knew?

[StraightFlush]

Pretend I know how to pedit and fix the spell

[StraightFlush]

spelling

jesus fucking christ my phone is having an aneurysm

[StraightFlush]

I’m not calling you bad, nor am I calling Nurse good. I simply don’t get the sense that you have anything to contribute on account of your late arrival. Prove me wrong and my vote will go back to where it was.

[StraightFlush]

Unbelievable.

VOTE: Emchant

Replacing semi-dead weight with fully dead weight does not, in fact, improve the gamestate. Who knew?

So your sole reason for this vote is because Enchant is "dead weight?"

Correct. There may be a difference between anti-town behavior and scummy behavior, but I have no issue with basing votes on either one.

[StraightFlush]

I don't think i can seriously consider opinion of player who avoids taking sides due "WHAT IF I LOOK PARTNERED"

Based on my incredible sample size of two incomplete games, this is kind of a playstyle quirk for her.

[StraightFlush]

What in the hell am I reading rn

[StraightFlush]

Is that E-1? I’ve lost track

[StraightFlush]

From my experience, replacements who avoid reading the game tend to be scum.

unless they are enchant

or me tbh

Interesting addition to make. Shading that slot while voting me looked quite sus for a sec. A skeptic would say it still does…

[StraightFlush]

fuck me why did I think brian posted that

[StraightFlush]

I am so dumb rn

[StraightFlush]

Indeed I can!

[StraightFlush]

Hm. One viable wagon is against me, and the other viable wagon smells like dogshit, or at the very least it did earlier in the day. Talk about a rough gamestate

[StraightFlush]

From my experience, replacements who avoid reading the game tend to be scum.

unless they are enchant

or me tbh

Interesting addition to make. Shading that slot while voting me looked quite sus for a sec. A skeptic would say it still does…

how was that shade?

From you or from Brian?

[StraightFlush]

you quoted me

Oh. Yeah you didn't shade anything, Brian did. I thought that was clear enough but apparently nothing is this game

[StraightFlush]

not sure why you didn't just quote brian then since i am also voting you

Doesn't make much of a difference tbh

[StraightFlush]

Flush wagon is garbage

Do you still feel strongly about Hu Tao? Who else are you feeling better about?

[StraightFlush]

Are you gonna claim, StraightFlush?

I will neither confirm nor deny my willingness to claim for the time being.

[StraightFlush]

KJ if you're town and you can't trust your own reads during crunch time, you're just gonna let scum win. Gotta consider that.

[StraightFlush]

This is an acceptable outcome.