Open 913 - This Game Started as an April Fools' Joke - Day 4

[OopsieDaisy]

dang it's the night and we're talking this is crazy

[OopsieDaisy]

dang it's the night and we're talking this is crazy

Can't believe you beat me to it

i've been waiting for this game to start for so long lmao i was readyyy

[OopsieDaisy]

i'll save confusion for now by saying i'm definitely voting for Black on day 1

[OopsieDaisy]

why

why not?

[OopsieDaisy]

why

why not?

Because I'm town duh

shit that's a good point

[OopsieDaisy]

We could just vote like normal during Night and I can try to do unofficial vote counts or something

I think this is optimal but it sorta defeats the point of the setup a bit.

[OopsieDaisy]

We could just vote like normal during Night and I can try to do unofficial vote counts or something

I think this is optimal but it sorta defeats the point of the setup a bit.

I don't really think so. We still have to follow through with our votes and that is bound to cause some chaos. It's like Survivor where we all talk about who we're going to vote off the island. Sometimes it might not go according to plan

Yea I get what you're saying, I was just sorta interested to see what happened to a discussion phase without votes and doing this would squash that little fantasy lol.

It's defo the better play tho

[OopsieDaisy]

wow, i sign up for a joke setup with a joke account and other people want to play more like a joke than me

i am a failure

yea you gotta step up your game frfr

[OopsieDaisy]

yeaaa this game was cooking for a whileeeeee

[OopsieDaisy]

i think votes give us things to talk about in the night. we are stuck here for seven days.

100% agree votes are like, the driving force behind d1 discussion in like p much every game i've been in. it's why i'm so curious what would happen without votes. would bandwagoning still exist but just with like opinions being shared rather than clear cut votes? how would discussion evolve? hell how would it start when a random voting stage has no voting?

like these are all rly cool questions imo that i would love to learn the answer to, but also it is objectively suboptimal to not just use the usual voting system so i'm not gonna fight it too hard if people wanna do the votes it does make more sense.

[OopsieDaisy]

Would scum actually vote differently from what they say though

The main scenario is obvs if a scumbuddy is being wagoned. They can switch to save. The issue is they can also switch just to create paranoia about the above so that worries ne a bit.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also if votes did exist right now I'd prolly chuck one on El, it's a hella nitpick but 87 reads as busywork for busywork's sake.

El who would you be voting right now?

[OopsieDaisy]

Like El makes these sorta posts all the time tbh but it's the best thing I have to latch onto when most of the discussion so far has just been discussing how we should handle the voting situation.

[OopsieDaisy]

Also if votes did exist right now I'd prolly chuck one on El, it's a hella nitpick but 87 reads as busywork for busywork's sake.

El who would you be voting right now?

Probably you accompanied with a "rude' after you vote me

Yea that checks out lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't rlly know what to do without voting

Yea that's why I'm trying to start a push on you. Get some action going ykno

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't rlly know what to do without voting

Yea that's why I'm trying to start a push on you. Get some action going ykno

This is the sort of baseless accusaiton I'd expect from Red!Daisy
She's trying to stir things up for the soul purpose of causing chaos so she can manipulate the way the pieces fall back into place. I've seen her do it countless times in irl games. She's known in our mafia group as "Daisy the chaos gremlin"
If you don't believe me you can look and any of Daisy's red games and you'll see exactly that happening

wifomgus https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOMGUS

[OopsieDaisy]

it is a good strategy because it makes sure that the supposed hang does indeed become the actual hang

would the supposed vote ever be a good vote if so many are agreeing to it tho (if im following the discussion correctly and talking about the same strategy)

[OopsieDaisy]

i suppose the alternate world is like, it's a free for all and cause mafia can act as a group in the votes without a clear majority they prolly dictate how most votes swing so that's also a cringer

[OopsieDaisy]

so they're both bad and at least with one of the strategies it means mafia have to at least believably propose votes/agree in thread rather than get votes on their terms in the day. i can see the point now yea

[OopsieDaisy]

If I'm a vig, I'm shooting Moros
Goodnight

cmonnn el at least pick on someone in the thread

[OopsieDaisy]

pokemon vs zombies new crossover boom nintendo need to hire me

[OopsieDaisy]

i think the scum would not intentionally argue for bad strategy

experience black awesomeming halfasleep towns.

these two posts feel at odds with each other to me. if you're reading players who have been intentionally arguing for bad strategy as town why are these your town reads?

[OopsieDaisy]

why would town intentionally argue for bad strategy?

why make the point about scum not arguing for bad strategy if you believe town wouldn't either?

[OopsieDaisy]

ok? i'm talking about your internal logic here and how it isn't adding up, not other people's. (unless the post above is just detailing why you tr awesomeming)

[OopsieDaisy]

my first comment was saying that i did not agree with making reads based on what strategy players are arguing for

if you don't believe we should be making reads based on what strategy players are arguing for, how come awesomeming is up there in your town reads?

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm sorry if i was unclear but i don't understand what the issue you have is.

essentially my issue is

you claimed "scum wouldn't intentionally argue for bad strategy", so from my POV that means arguing for bad strategy would be townie in your eyes. you're now claiming you just meant it wasn't alignment indicative but i figured if you don't believe scum would do something you'd prolly townread someone doing it. it's an assumption i just figured it was a fair one to make.

then your townreads come out and i don't rly see anyone on there who's argued for bad strategy in this game (bar halfasleep's jokey mention of fast nights). ping, that's a contradiction in my eyes so i've pushed it.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy are you trying already?

Barely anyone is making pushes someone has to put their foot down and start some action frfr

[OopsieDaisy]

errrr is cee mirage an alt of ranger what's going on lol

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

true

[OopsieDaisy]

Cee Mirage is kind of scummy

wanna tell us why?

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

I feel like Daisy has been towny with trying to get the ball rolling on this game

Back during the pandemic one of Daisy's biggest red tells was trying day one so whenever she tries day one I point it out

back during the pandemic is doing a lot of heavy lifting here lol

[OopsieDaisy]

OMGYS definitely exists amazing term

[OopsieDaisy]

i like csf and mirage they're townie to me rn

i think scum would wanna hide in the club of people struggling to do stuff and like, masquerade as one. not to take away from anyone in this pool who is struggling but scum know the game not moving means town get nowhere closer to figuring em out. it also could just be someone is scum *and* is struggling to do stuff that's also a possibility.

[OopsieDaisy]

i like csf and mirage they're townie to me rn

i think scum would wanna hide in the club of people struggling to do stuff and like, masquerade as one. not to take away from anyone in this pool who is struggling but scum know the game not moving means town get nowhere closer to figuring em out. it also could just be someone is scum *and* is struggling to do stuff that's also a possibility.

counterpoint: the poe game

yo awesome can you clarify what this means i know poe means process of elimination but idk what the poe game is and how it's a counterpoint to what i've said lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

i like csf and mirage they're townie to me rn

i think scum would wanna hide in the club of people struggling to do stuff and like, masquerade as one. not to take away from anyone in this pool who is struggling but scum know the game not moving means town get nowhere closer to figuring em out. it also could just be someone is scum *and* is struggling to do stuff that's also a possibility.

counterpoint: the poe game

yo awesome can you clarify what this means i know poe means process of elimination but idk what the poe game is and how it's a counterpoint to what i've said lmao

"town get nowhere closer to figuring em out" is false because town can get townreads

oo yes that's true i get ya now

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is probably just town

there we go

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is probably just town

But what if she isn't?

This is the hard hitting analysis you will get from me this game

dw if i'm not town i'll just scumslip day 3 or smth

[OopsieDaisy]

Ranger

reporting

in. Apologies for the absence, everyone. I've unexpectedly found myself quite busy the last few days, however I now have a brief while in which I shall catch up on what's occurred thus far.

{Black, awesomeming327}
{OopsieDaisy, Elements}
{Cee Mirage}

P1.

Repping in for Ranger I literally was going to fonher reads list thing

You took away the joy I would have this game

This won't go unpunished

can we still get doctor drew reads?

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is probably just town

oh yea what changed with your read on me?

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

I feel like Daisy has been towny with trying to get the ball rolling on this game

Back during the pandemic one of Daisy's biggest red tells was trying day one so whenever she tries day one I point it out

changed from these ^^

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is probably just town

oh yea what changed with your read on me?

Daisy is probably just town

there we go

Why didn't you ask that initially?

didn't think about it at the time.

still no reads?

[OopsieDaisy]

{Drew}




{Daisy}

based and drewpilled

based as in agree with it or based as in funny?

[OopsieDaisy]

Cee Mirage is kind of scummy

wanna tell us why?

Her engagement feels a bit off. She voted someone who hasn't posted in the game and didn't really comment on some of the more substantive things on page 6

i like csf and mirage they're townie to me rn

i think scum would wanna hide in the club of people struggling to do stuff and like, masquerade as one. not to take away from anyone in this pool who is struggling but scum know the game not moving means town get nowhere closer to figuring em out. it also could just be someone is scum *and* is struggling to do stuff that's also a possibility.

It's kinda interesting to me you ask CSF about why she suspects Cee Mirage, but then you don't engage with CSF's reply, but then call CSF and Cee Mirage both townie. Like if you think CSF is town and suspects Cee Mirage (who you read as town too) for a reason that's presumably flawed in your eyes, wouldn't you want to comment on it?

I mean you can see my methodology behind the mirage and csf reads below them in that message. I think scum want to slow this game down and make sure as little as possible is gleaned from this Day 1. This is partially off personal experience (last time I was in a super slow D1 like this it was two quiet people who provided little to the discussion who were the scum pair there) and also just because I feel like it's the easiest option for mafia to play out here.


I can see what CSF says there, I don't disagree that voting someone who isn't here won't create much content, but nevertheless I'll take flawed engagement over no engagement right now. I felt my 193 illustrated this point in a less direct manner but sure I'll elaborate on that. It does come off a bit activity police-y which is a bit cringe but there's a difference between someone who lurks but pops in with reads every now and then VS a lot of players right now being lost and unable to provide any.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

Daisy is scummy coz she hasn't town told yet

I feel like Daisy has been towny with trying to get the ball rolling on this game

Back during the pandemic one of Daisy's biggest red tells was trying day one so whenever she tries day one I point it out

changed from these ^^

You might have to sit down for this one Daisy, but those were in fact not real reads

that's fucked up but so townie of you

[OopsieDaisy]

I will say to clarify now my reads are like:
CSF/El
Mirage/Imaginality
idk i can't think of stuff for everyone else it's hard to differentiate em but they're all below the above

[OopsieDaisy]

Hi. I have no clue what I am doing.

VOTE: Titus

hmm. is there a reason i get townread for confusedposting but titus gets a 'vote'?

oh yea i liked this post from halfasleep

[OopsieDaisy]

awesomeming i'm less sure on i wanna hear him elaborate on halfasleep's question cause yes doesn't rly cut it, tho if he needs to wait to see more engagement from others that's fair it's just any reads/info is important rn. we've only got 3 days left to decide on a vote which sure can be plenty of time but it can also fly by and considering we need a strong town consensus on a vote we need to start organising sooner rather than later

[OopsieDaisy]

it's why being unable to differentiate between the confused people sorta irks me cause idk how we should choose a vote here.

[OopsieDaisy]

like idrk what to say about black/titus/black ranger/experience? at least experience and black partook in a lot of the convo around how to play the day out at the start? but im not sure if any of that convo is alignment indicative bar csf painting a target on her back for no reason.

and moros is also noticeably not here but also it came under a lot of pressure from myself & csf so i can see a world where its town and just wanted to have some space to breathe. maybe that's too charitable of a read but it's what brain says so it comes outta mouth.

[OopsieDaisy]

drew is memeing but i have a feeling i prolly shouldn't take that too seriously. i forgot about light too she said one of my comments pinged her but never got back to it (tho she's said she's tired so taking that at face value it's NAI)

[OopsieDaisy]

hmm maybe there's some double standards going on with my reads on awesomeming and mirage. need to think on that. anyways i'll stop talking now cause i've made tooooo many posts that coulda just been one lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

drew is memeing but i have a feeling i prolly shouldn't take that too seriously. i forgot about light too she said one of my comments pinged her but never got back to it (tho she's said she's tired so taking that at face value it's NAI)

what makes you say Drew's memeing, seems like he's done some questioning as well

and what would Drew memeing mean to you about his alignment, idk what conclusion you'd come to if you did "take that too seriously"

Like, I build my reads/srz bizness gameplay into my shit posting

Like my 'Ranger Reads List'(TM pending) was correct at the time how I felt about Daisy

ohh i assumed that was just a joke lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

drew is memeing but i have a feeling i prolly shouldn't take that too seriously. i forgot about light too she said one of my comments pinged her but never got back to it (tho she's said she's tired so taking that at face value it's NAI)

what makes you say Drew's memeing, seems like he's done some questioning as well

and what would Drew memeing mean to you about his alignment, idk what conclusion you'd come to if you did "take that too seriously"

was mostly expressing that i didn't know if i was supposed to be taking his posts seriously or not. like the readlist with just drew & i on it i had no clue whether that was joking or serious. so like it's hard to get a read on someone where i'm struggling w/ the tone.

[OopsieDaisy]

yo ming was there a reason why you lied during your posts then? i know why el did it w/ me i'm 90% sure it was a meta thing but idk your justification yet

[OopsieDaisy]

also as an fyi i should be away tomorrow cause im going on one of those winged beasts that takes you from a place to another place so if i'm not around that's why, but knowing me i'll still be here lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

In other words, ming could have been agreeing with Daisy on how scum would behave and disagreeing that it would stop town progressing. That's how I read it at the time. So I find ming's backtracking about the Titus vote and 'yes' and 'yes there is' posts dubious and think Black could be right about ming being scum.

Yea this is how I read it at the time

[OopsieDaisy]

In other words, ming could have been agreeing with Daisy on how scum would behave and disagreeing that it would stop town progressing. That's how I read it at the time. So I find ming's backtracking about the Titus vote and 'yes' and 'yes there is' posts dubious and think Black could be right about ming being scum.

Yea this is how I read it at the time

Wait I was even given an explanation, i was confused at first. huhh

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm not against a ming vote (looks like that's where consensus is headed right now) mostly just because the lying is weird. the town reason for it is he legitimately just thought it was funny. the scum reason is he's using it as an excuse to float through the day without ever actually having to commit to a stance. now it wasn't funny to me so i'm leaning the latter but humour is subjective innit, and at least ming has been actively taking part in the game. even if that activity has mostly not been genuine.

i think if we're to pressure a lurker black ranger is prolly the one i'd go for out of the ones halfasleep suggested? earlier i townread a question halfasleep asked so i've got something resembling a townping there, and titus is on the brink of replacement based on inactivity so i don't think pressure there gets us anything? looking through black ranger's iso the only thing there resembling a read is supporting drew's readlist with drew at the top me at the bottom, which makes me a little worried the reason br sticks out to me like this is because of that but also i wanna hear more so wcyd.

[OopsieDaisy]

In terms of other candidates, there isn't a world I vote imaginality today I like a good chunk of his posting, and Moros isn't a priority for me rn.

[OopsieDaisy]

"not against" is the wording of mafia not wanting to commit to a wrong elim :kaugh:

so do you think im mafia or is this just another joke lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

I don't see why Moros as scum here defends ming like this.

[OopsieDaisy]

I guess scum!moros could be prepping for a town flip on ming and trying to use that to gain leverage tomorrow but like, just saying it believes him doesn't rly do enough for that. It's also always gonna be somewhat of a risk defending your counterwagon that usually pings me as a p townie thing to do cause it's actively not self-preservational (if that's a word lol), even if it doesn't rly feel like a read that's gonna convince others.

[OopsieDaisy]

wait my point was that Moros is less scummy because of the defence. like i don't see the scum justification for defending ming in the way it does.

[OopsieDaisy]

bar trying to get towncred on flip but the defence clearly isn't good enough to earn any towncred for it. there's no solid defence it's just personal feelings toward the slot.

[OopsieDaisy]

wait my point was that Moros is less scummy because of the defence. like i don't see the scum justification for defending ming in the way it does.

ah i suppose if the defence is too good and moros is the counterwagon that's gg for it. hmm.

i'm a little worried about how happy people are with this gamestate but also in order to get a vote through with hidden votes we do need a strong consensus which is always gonna feel red flaggy.

[OopsieDaisy]

Ming is showing no desire to actually play the game

this is the crux of the issue for me. even if he's town i don't think he's done anything to prove he should stay in the game whatsoever.

[OopsieDaisy]

obvs there are others like black ranger who also haven't proved this but as we talked about earlier consensus is important when going into a blind vote otherwise mafia just tip the scales too easily, so i'm worried about introducing too many candidates for the elim.

as of now tho i'm between ming and black ranger.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think Daisy/moros has partner equity but it's more of a tin foil gut read

i'd argue i wouldn't have gone so snappy at moros on page 6, but yea in recent pages i am just pushing for moros to survive today i don't rly get the push there tbh.

[OopsieDaisy]

like i can kinda see the informed moros softly protecting its counterwagon but not enough to actually get turned on but i just think it's way too risky of a play to make on day 1 cause it backfires so easily (like, just see what has happened over the last couple pages moros has been turned on).

[OopsieDaisy]

Can't say I've been particulalrly paying attention to anything that's happend this game, can someone tell me where we're voting?

we're wagoning you

[OopsieDaisy]

it's too coordinated for all of the people on the wagons to be town

if we don't coordinate how do we outvote mafia

[OopsieDaisy]

The compulsive need you people have to be well liked and to influence the game is pathetic

what's so pathetic about these wants?

[OopsieDaisy]

surpring that csr has sorta dropped off the radar a bit, i liked her early play tho

[OopsieDaisy]

and yea no one bit on the black ranger stuff so im VOTE: ming right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

i'm down to unify on black ranger.

[OopsieDaisy]

i think people should say who they voted last night just so we can do some wagon analysis. even if scum lie good stuff prolly comes outta it. i voted black ranger.

[OopsieDaisy]

Hi everyone! I have something to share with you

I am a cop, and I have a guilty on Cat Scratch Fever

big if true. idk if you're the kinda player to lie about that but i'd vote there if you genuinely have one.

[OopsieDaisy]

Hi everyone! I have something to share with you

I am a cop, and I have a guilty on Cat Scratch Fever

big if true. idk if you're the kinda player to lie about that but i'd vote there if you genuinely have one.

Yup. Fullclaiming it straight out

(I've actually never rolled cop and managed to get a guilty on someone before, I am so gassed rn)

that's massive, wpwp

[OopsieDaisy]

how come you went for csf? was it the drop off in activity or just a read from the start?

[OopsieDaisy]

that's massive, wpwp

Other than csf, who would you want to vote atm?

the fact that i mentioned no-one biting on black ranger, put a ming vote down, and then instantly the momentum shifted onto black ranger makes me initially worry about like, one of ming's teammates stepping in to quickly change the direction of votes right before the deadline hit. so prolly ming. tho i don't think ming needs any pressure right now i just wanna watch em in a natural gamestate so i don't think i'd wanna vote anywhere in particular rn. maybe black cause that's the most overt instance of the switch in prio but she didn't switch her POV really she's already turned off of ming i think.

right now tho VOTE: cat scratch fever

[OopsieDaisy]

Moros why do you townread ming?

You've defended ming a lot but never really explained why you believe him

Thoughts on this daisy?

it's a message

having someone who townreads a buddy elaborate on that to everyone is a nice way to get a proper good defence of them out in the open without doing it yourself.

it could also just be that ming is town and we were nowhere close to scum yesterday, my thing with ming (hehe rhyme) is definitely to some extent natural paranoia from the late switch-up.

it *could* also be csf town and light is lying but i don't see why light lies about that check if she's town here so i'm rolling w/ it.

[OopsieDaisy]

how come you went for csf? was it the drop off in activity or just a read from the start?

low activity plus she was giving me very neutral vibes on a surface level ISO read. seemed like a good idea not to go for one of my bigger scumreads at the time (ming, moros) because both were likely D1 lims anyway and I didn't want to potentially waste an investigation

yea that's solid reasoning thanks for elaborating

[OopsieDaisy]

This could also be a ploy to out a real cop(s)

Sure but can't multiple cops exist in this set-up?

[OopsieDaisy]

Oh yea I forgot a kill could solve it for us lmao.

Yea we do need another vote then.

[OopsieDaisy]

i do not think it makes sense for scum!Black to switch up her opinion on me so suddenly

why doesn't it make sense?

[OopsieDaisy]

Drew is my backup vote

any reason for this?

[OopsieDaisy]

i do not think it makes sense for scum!Black to switch up her opinion on me so suddenly

why doesn't it make sense?

it would've taken no effort to get rid of me at all and in my opinion she would've been one of the least suspicious on the wagon, so there wasn't really any reason for her to get off if she's not genuinely solving

oo you're talking from the pov that you're town ok i get that

[OopsieDaisy]

like if you are town black has 0 motivation to switch up the wagon on you as scum. issue is the if is big for us rn cause if you're both scum the motivation is crystal clear.

[OopsieDaisy]

One of LG/Daisy is probably scum with CSF. Maybe both but I don't think the game is that easy

What makes me scum with CSF?

[OopsieDaisy]

And I'm assuming the LG read is that you think this is a gambit where both are scum and Light thinks she can ride this to the end despite the fact in those worlds she's a cop not getting shot by the mafia.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tbh me following you without giving a real explanation should realistically be more suspicious imo.

Sure but you have a real explanation in 551 and it's pretty good lmao.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think scum would benefit from pushing a ming/Black narrative but LG is probably town

Tbf if Ming flips town I think you're town, so in current world I wanna flip Ming before you. I don't know why you overhaul the wagons in that moment as scum if the wagons are all on town. It's just unnecessary action that is guaranteed to get eyes on you post-flip.

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is town I prolly look at slots like drew or experience who didn't rly take the chance to change anything night 0.

[OopsieDaisy]

El too but the lying about a read on me to try and draw a reaction into reluctant townread cause I didn't bite seems veryyyy town from El that's typical Daisy sorting right there.

[OopsieDaisy]

Imag also didn't do a whole lot yesterday but I love the posting today so much that I'm not concerned about a scum world there.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho Ming deserves the right to play without pressure, I'm just stuck on wanting to know if we were dancing with shadows yesterday or if the wagons actually meant something.

[OopsieDaisy]

oh yea halfasleep exists, add her to the drew/experience group of people i should look at if ming is town (and maybe just look at regardless)

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is town I prolly look at slots like drew or experience who didn't rly take the chance to change anything night 0.

What do you mean by this?

If Ming is town then scum knew that it didn't matter where we landed between Moros/Ming/BR. Therefore there's no reason for em to shake up the boat like for example Black did. So I wanna look at the slots who didn't do a whole lot N0 if it turns out Ming is town, because scum are less likely to have been actively engaging and pushing the wagons to and fro imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is town I prolly look at slots like drew or experience who didn't rly take the chance to change anything night 0.

What do you mean by this?

If Ming is town then scum knew that it didn't matter where we landed between Moros/Ming/BR. Therefore there's no reason for em to shake up the boat like for example Black did. So I wanna look at the slots who didn't do a whole lot N0 if it turns out Ming is town, because scum are less likely to have been actively engaging and pushing the wagons to and fro imo.

How did Black shake the boat?

By flipping the focus away from Ming and onto BR after my vote onto Ming, alongside initially pushing heavily against Ming during the night prior to that.

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is town I prolly look at slots like drew or experience who didn't rly take the chance to change anything night 0.

What do you mean by this?

If Ming is town then scum knew that it didn't matter where we landed between Moros/Ming/BR. Therefore there's no reason for em to shake up the boat like for example Black did. So I wanna look at the slots who didn't do a whole lot N0 if it turns out Ming is town, because scum are less likely to have been actively engaging and pushing the wagons to and fro imo.

How did Black shake the boat?

By flipping the focus away from Ming and onto BR after my vote onto Ming, alongside initially pushing heavily against Ming during the night prior to that.

But you just said if ming is town, then scum knew they could flip between any of the three you mentioned, since they would all be mis lims.

How does this clear Black?

sure scum *can* flip between any of the three but why would they? black had built up a pretty solid push on ming, before then moving to moros, so abandoning both of those already justified pushes to push another town wagon through last minute instead doesn't really make sense to do as scum there.

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is town I prolly look at slots like drew or experience who didn't rly take the chance to change anything night 0.

What do you mean by this?

If Ming is town then scum knew that it didn't matter where we landed between

Moros/Ming/BR.

Therefore there's no reason for em to shake up the boat like for example Black did. So I wanna look at the slots who didn't do a whole lot N0 if it turns out Ming is town, because scum are less likely to have been actively engaging and pushing the wagons to and fro imo.

Ya, but you said it doesn't matter where we landed in the bolded three, because scum knew they would be all three town......if awesome is town.

Black went from Awesome, to BR.....

So....by your logic, how does this clear Black?

it doesn't matter where we land in the bolded three, so why change the fact that we were landing on ming if she's scum and ming's town?

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea you are missing something Drew lemme try and explain in more detail.

I don't see a reasonable explanation as to why Black overhauls her reads 3 hours before the deadline to get someone she hasn't shown much of a care for prior to that point pushed out. If she's scum and the wagon that was about to happen was gonna be on town anyways, it's wasted effort, and that play is basically guaranteed to draw more attention to her in the following day.

I believe in a gamestate where town are basically guaranteed to get wagoned, scum players don't have much motivation to change the gamestate. So when Black comes in and starts leading a new wagon 3 hours before deadline, that directly goes against this theory if Ming is town. This is why I want to look into experience/you/halfasleep if Ming flips town. I'm hunting for people who showed a lack of motivation to change the gamestate at that time.

[OopsieDaisy]

If Ming is scum however there is clear scum motive to change the gamestate, a leading town member just plonked a vote onto your scumbuddy who's been under pressure for a good chunk of the day and could get wagoned, so we look to see who did change things up in reaction to that and black/thomith pop up.

[OopsieDaisy]

I still believe this was Black trying to protect their buddy in Awesome, and if Awesome is town I could easily see Black going for the mis lim that gives less info

Yea I guess my opinion is different cause I thought Black Ranger was just a good lim anyways, super apathetic towards the game and kinda unwilling to contribute so wasn't super sad to see em go. Like I think that lim was still valuable to town, so then Black going for that mislim over a Ming mislim doesn't compute. The incentive of less info doesn't feel worth the push imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Well it's pretty obvious CSF is scum here. She's in anti-spew mode not saying anything

Agreed.

[OopsieDaisy]

I still believe this was Black trying to protect their buddy in Awesome, and if Awesome is town I could easily see Black going for the mis lim that gives less info

Yea I guess my opinion is different cause I thought Black Ranger was just a good lim anyways, super apathetic towards the game and kinda unwilling to contribute so wasn't super sad to see em go. Like I think that lim was still valuable to town, so then Black going for that mislim over a Ming mislim doesn't compute. The incentive of less info doesn't feel worth the push imo.

I 100% disagree, for basically the reasons you described about BR, no one can look at that mis lim and wonder if it was driven by town or scum since they basically didn't do anything and wasn't helping town at all.

Like, you are making my point here

So you believe that a town ming elim going through is a lot worse for Black over a town BR elim. My argument against that is my feeling at the time (would prolly need to go back and have a proper look at some point) was that Black's progression on Ming did feel really natural, and Black would've had the fact that she'd moved away from the lim in her defence. Whereas with the BR push the defence is only that lots of people agreed it was a good lim. I think in the town ming flips n0 world black is under less attack today not more.

But yea, you disagree with this and believe it was a mafia movement from Black to get a no info lim through so I think we're just gonna talk in circles if we keep going. I'm likely gonna defend Black if Ming flips town, and I've done my best to outline why.

Tho saying that:

One of LG/Daisy is probably scum with CSF. Maybe both but I don't think the game is that easy

Actually scratch the LG read I had a bad brain fart

Yo Black if you think I'm probably scum with CSF why haven't you made any attempts to convince other people of this? Like surely if you believe Ming is town and you see me posturing around a Ming flip alarm bells should be ringing.

[OopsieDaisy]

Cause right now what I see is I push you as scum in the ming scum world, you decide I'm likely scum, then I go on to talk at length with Drew about how I think you're town in a town ming world, and now you've eased off. It feels like your push on me is motivated by my read on you and not on my general play, so clarification would be appreciated.

[OopsieDaisy]

Cause right now what I see is I push you as scum in the ming scum world, you decide I'm likely scum, then I go on to talk at length with Drew about how I think you're town in a town ming world, and now you've eased off. It feels like your push on me is motivated by my read on you and not on my general play, so clarification would be appreciated.

What push? All I did was theorize you as a CSF partners. You seem overly concerned with how I'm reading you

Of course I'm concerned about how you're reading me I've spent the past like 4 pages talking about you I figure you've gotta have some opinions on that

[OopsieDaisy]

Push was almost definitiely the wrong wording tho I shoulda said read that's my b

[OopsieDaisy]

Prolly ming right now for me it just solves a lotta stuff from my pov

[OopsieDaisy]

Cause right now what I see is I push you as scum in the ming scum world, you decide I'm likely scum, then I go on to talk at length with Drew about how I think you're town in a town ming world, and now you've eased off. It feels like your push on me is motivated by my read on you and not on my general play, so clarification would be appreciated.

What push? All I did was theorize you as a CSF partners. You seem overly concerned with how I'm reading you

Of course I'm concerned about how you're reading me I've spent the past like 4 pages talking about you I figure you've gotta have some opinions on that

Some things you say just seem kinda performative in a scummy way

Yea performative is the buzzword that follows me around lmao, but yea at least you've played a town game with me even if for just a day or so so you know a lil bit about how I am.

[OopsieDaisy]

oh yea halfasleep exists, add her to the drew/experience group of people i should look at if ming is town (and maybe just look at regardless)

ama

im late but hi

any potentional teams you see in the game right now?

[OopsieDaisy]

you are arguing so much to make me look bad

that you didn't even notice it......

I think your read is bad but I think town!you is more likely to make it

I know you know Drew better than me but I don't think it's impossible for scum!Drew to make this read on you. I remember at the time Drew's comments initially felt like he was trying to keep the poe as open as possible for town if Ming were to flip town (as I'd only named 3 people that I wanted to look at if that flip happens).

I didn't say at the time cause I'd rather have good faith discussion than just like, saying directly that Drew could just be acting in his own interests, but no-one's said anything for a while so it's at least a point of discussion (plus like, I think Drew's points weren't obviously bad or anything, I can v much see his perspective if he's town and just believes you're scum).

[OopsieDaisy]

oh yea halfasleep exists, add her to the drew/experience group of people i should look at if ming is town (and maybe just look at regardless)

ama

im late but hi

any potentional teams you see in the game right now?

i'm just gonna take it as read for now that csf is scum. if ming flips red i'm kinda the opposite of you in that that would put my attention on the most passive night 1 players. i say this because after a little bit of (potentially) RVS theater at 69 and 103, csf goes on to make a pretty half-hearted effort at best to move things away from ming and says as little as possible on the subject. i think as scum if a partner is getting correctly pushed early in the game you're likely to be pretty gunshy about being seen either bussing or defending them. i think the third partner in a csf/ming team would've stayed away entirely.

if ming is town, you'd probably be top of my list tbh. i think town!ming potentially makes a good point at 358. the use of noncommital language while being a driving force behind the ming push and the 'lying' narrative is pretty questionable. same goes for you possibly laying the groundwork for the next mislim at 636 and 641 if you already know ming is town. once i'm looking at you with scumread goggles on i'm starting to think a daisy/elements team could be plausible based on your night 1 interactions. i think there's a fairly unnatural progression from the bickering over spurious/jokey scumreads on each other to mutually townbinning and moving on. smacks of theatre to me.

thanks for the detailed answer

that's a good point about csf being gunshy, i didn't rly think about it cause it's not how i go about the game (if i see a defence of a mafia buddy i'm taking it, if they do something scummy i'll point it out) but yea i can see a world where csf just didn't know how to go about approaching the ming slot since it was already so polarising in the game and fell out of activity that way.

i am 100% laying the groundwork for if i'm here come day 3, but doing that openly so that people can critique it surely is better than just hiding it? i ain't got a satisfying defence for el & i tho we just land the sort on each other day 1 sometimes and this game is one of those games lmao. i've been as open with my reasons as i can be so i don't rly know what else to say there.

(went to send this last night but connection timed out w/ the site)

[OopsieDaisy]

tho i will say looking at anyone with scumread goggles is gonna net results. like i mentioned with drew, i don't see him as scum but if i whip out the goggles there's scum motivation in expanding the poe come a ming!town flip. same applies to you. i'd argue everything i've done has town motivation because hey, i'm town, and in every game i'm in i do my best to outline my reasonings as clearly as possible.

like yea i've laid some groundwork for if a ming flip happens to be town tomorrow, but equally i'd also laid groundwork for a scum flip. the only reason the townflip world was discussed more was because drew & i were talking about black and why she should/shouldn't be in the townflip group to look at.

[OopsieDaisy]

hey @thomith what do you think about teams right now i haven't heard from you in a while and i think i have less justification to not look at you on a ming!town flip than black.

[OopsieDaisy]

how often do you say anything about a partner before you've had time to clear it with them behind the scenes, especially when you're still finding your footing in how you're going to be working as a team?

all the time that shit's free townreads. if you let the people on your team control what you say it's gonna become obvious very quickly who's on your team. i'm not saying don't talk to em i talk a lot to my mafia buddies in the pt about overall strategy and the like, but if every comment you make about a partner gets filtered through the mafia pt surely that's not good?

[OopsieDaisy]

also for those who do think el & i are scum together we've got a game where we were a scumpair together on-site (it's on my wiki page). i use meta as a shield in that game too but in a much more complex overworked way that made it so i could scumread her slot on the condition that another slot would have to be scum in that world.

[OopsieDaisy]

also for those who do think el & i are scum together we've got a game where we were a scumpair together on-site (it's on my wiki page). i use meta as a shield in that game too but in a much more complex overworked way that made it so i could scumread her slot on the condition that another slot would have to be scum in that world.

Omg Daisy, stop using meta as a defence. Everyone knows that's your red tell!

wowww el are you tryna scum theatre with me again smh

[OopsieDaisy]

also el same question as i asked halfasleep and thomith, any possible teams that you're seeing in the game right now?

[OopsieDaisy]

also for those who do think el & i are scum together we've got a game where we were a scumpair together on-site (it's on my wiki page). i use meta as a shield in that game too but in a much more complex overworked way that made it so i could scumread her slot on the condition that another slot would have to be scum in that world.

Omg Daisy, stop using meta as a defence. Everyone knows that's your red tell!

wowww el are you tryna scum theatre with me again smh

If we were going to theatre we'd need to discuss it in the pt first

naturally <3

[OopsieDaisy]

also el same question as i asked halfasleep and thomith, any possible teams that you're seeing in the game right now?

As you may have noticed I'm not currently up to date with much of the game
So current thoughts are however I last expressed them probably

booo catch up el if you keep going like this you're gonna get yeeted out of the airlock

[OopsieDaisy]

voted ming

[OopsieDaisy]

Why did scum not kill LG? Drew is such a weird hit

Yea it's rly weird. My best guesses so far are maybe Light crumbed a Drew check and they figured it was best to kill the target rather than the cop to frame Light, or it was done to throw sus on Light's townreads, but I don't think either of those are good reasons at all.

[OopsieDaisy]

could also be someone killing drew cause the scumread is too strong to fight but that only works for black and that feels wrong cause i think it's very easy to bat that away as drew being in a tunnel

[OopsieDaisy]

hey @thomith what do you think about teams right now i haven't heard from you in a while and i think i have less justification to not look at you on a ming!town flip than black.

question still stands for thomith

[OopsieDaisy]

You're probably town for noticing that tbh

town for noticing what? (im prolly dumb and missing something)

[OopsieDaisy]

actually has experience commented on teams at all? if not hey experience same question as im asking to thomith it creates good content trust

[OopsieDaisy]

You're probably town for noticing that tbh

town for noticing what? (im prolly dumb and missing something)

The observation in 840 feels like something that would come from town

the observation that tvt moved to another t is town, or the observation that you moving that wagon is NAI?

[OopsieDaisy]

You're probably town for noticing that tbh

town for noticing what? (im prolly dumb and missing something)

The observation in 840 feels like something that would come from town

the observation that the wagons on N0 were tvt moving to another t, or the observation that you moving that wagon is NAI?

EBWOP

[OopsieDaisy]

despite drew dying in the night over light, i do think black is town here. i don't think getting a lower info flip is worth the move that black made at the end of n0 so she's chill for now in my eyes.

el needs to start playing the game soon but i still stand by my read of her. just getting more worried now that she got a townread for me and then parked the bus knowing i'd defend her hard enough for a lim to not happen.

imag/light i have been on a similar page with through a lot of n0/1 so i'm inclined to townread em. saying it out loud maybe it's not the best reason but i can't rly think of why i would sr either of these players over others.

this leaves experience/halfasleep/thomith to sort. out of these three halfasleep is the most townie imo, in retrospect choosing to pick me out as her main sr despite imag/light's reads on me would be bold as scum cause you're kinda asking for pushback there.

i don't think it's as simple as experience/thomith scum tho. i'm probably wrong somewhere :/

[OopsieDaisy]

Well all of it really. I just like that he is thinking on this level. It feels like he's trying to solve the game

is it that big of an observation that the wagons were all town on n0 tho? i mean, obvs it's big for the game, but we spent a good chunk of yesterday discussing that a town!ming flip would mean all the wagons from n0 were town right.

i do get what you're saying on the solving side of things tho i have liked imag's posting just generally across the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

which is somewhat worrying me as for all we know, the sk could've killed csf for the towncred

yea we've sorta got a schrodinger's vig thing going on. like the kills make sense for a vig but sk can just make them to look like a vig.

[OopsieDaisy]

despite drew dying in the night over light, i do think black is town here. i don't think getting a lower info flip is worth the move that black made at the end of n0 so she's chill for now in my eyes.

el needs to start playing the game soon but i still stand by my read of her. just getting more worried now that she got a townread for me and then parked the bus knowing i'd defend her hard enough for a lim to not happen.

imag/light i have been on a similar page with through a lot of n0/1 so i'm inclined to townread em. saying it out loud maybe it's not the best reason but i can't rly think of why i would sr either of these players over others.

this leaves experience/halfasleep/thomith to sort. out of these three halfasleep is the most townie imo, in retrospect choosing to pick me out as her main sr despite imag/light's reads on me would be bold as scum cause you're kinda asking for pushback there.

i don't think it's as simple as experience/thomith scum tho. i'm probably wrong somewhere :/

you know sk counts as scum, right?

haha yea definitely 100% totally i knew that yep defo

(i had a feeling but i usually just default to scum meaning like, a scumteam. i'll try and use mafia instead if it bothers people)

[OopsieDaisy]

imag/light i have been on a similar page with through a lot of n0/1 so i'm inclined to townread em. saying it out loud maybe it's not the best reason but i can't rly think of why i would sr either of these players over others.

well the fact that light survived the night is still weird to me and the one-shot thing could just be a lie but i feel like this line of thinking is just gonna end up in me talking in circles to myself

[OopsieDaisy]

i mean anti-town

yea i think you're right dw

[OopsieDaisy]

how do you even sk hunt in a forum game? i've done it irl before cause there's usually something unnatural about the way they approach the game but that's all in the moment social stuff that doesn't rly translate to forum games.

[OopsieDaisy]

light DEFINITELY isn't sk if there is one tho, no world you claim cop like that as a 1-player faction you're asking to die in the night (or the following day if you guess wrong).

[OopsieDaisy]

My gut still tells me Black's opening post today was performative. Drew was pretty sure Black was scum so I kinda feel if I were town!Black I'd be suspecting Drew was shot to frame me compared with a "that's so weird, why did Drew die" type of post.

What makes Black's posting there performative and mine not?

And since then, Black giving me town points for making a somewhat obvious point (that happened to paint Black in a better light) felt a little like it could be from scum hoping to want to keep me on side.

Yeaa I felt this a bit hence why I asked.

@Daisy re. your point in 855 I don't see Black pushing for the BR lim as clearing her, because it's relatively riskfree as scum. Either town BR gets limmed, or town ming or town Moros do.

The risk of some suspicion on Black after BR flips town (which isn't a big risk, as townies pushing a mislim on D1 happens often enough) is balanced by the fact that if Black were to be limmed we would definitely have limmed ming or Moros afterwards out of suspicion she was deflecting away from them.

Ahh so you're saying the risk of Black getting heat could've been worth it because on a flip associatives take us elsewhere and get a mislim for mafia through for basically free. It still doesn't feel worth it to me though. Like it still feels like a waste of effort because as scum you can just let the ming wagon go through and cause less of a fuss. I don't think letting yourself get limmed to create stronger mislim chances in the future is super worth it with the possibility of cops and vigs lurking around.

[OopsieDaisy]

I just realized Thomith hasn't posted in a week

Yea I'd love to hear from him

Elements has requested replacement.

:[

[OopsieDaisy]

crickey

[OopsieDaisy]

actually has experience commented on teams at all? if not hey experience same question as im asking to thomith it creates good content trust

i did bring up agreeing with imag on possible teams.
tho rn, given ming flipped town, i need to re-evaluate

any progress on the re-evaluation?

[OopsieDaisy]

Can someone catch up me

N0 ended with two leading wagons, Ming (flipped town) and Moros (flipped town). Then Black led a late push onto Black Ranger (flipped town) who became the lim for the following day.

N1 the day was mostly theorising about the previous night, with the Ming flip being seen as the best flip for information by a mile, so we did that.

There have been two kills each night so we're assuming sk or vig, kills are vig-like but it can always just be an sk hiding as a vig.

Light claimed cop on N1 and was not killed that night, got a mafia ping on CSF who was shot by the vig/sk and confirmed as mafia. Light did not die that night tho, and it was revealed today by Light that she's a one-shot cop.

Currently there doesn't seem to be a strong consensus as to where we should be pushing today. A couple people have said I'm a good lim, a couple Thomith. I'm waiting to hear more from quieter slots but I'm concerned I'm wrong about one of my townreads.

[OopsieDaisy]

idk why i said a couple thomith i don't think people have actually declared interests to vote there or anything, just wanna hear more from the slot (but it's getting replaced now so wcyd)

[OopsieDaisy]

i can see a world where halfasleep is teamed with the elements/enchant slot. points out the possibility el & i could be teamed but wants me out first specifically, then after that they can use my flip to lock el as town since i was vouching for the slot and the associative read is gone.

[OopsieDaisy]

355 Oh really OD? You liked Imaginality’s posting? This doesn't seem to link up with what you thought in 638??

Reposting for noticeability

like =/= love, different levels innit

[OopsieDaisy]

like imag's posting d1 was good but it did still feel like imag could just have been passively backing up points rather than actively pushing the game in his direction. d2 was when imag switched gears and took more control imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Considering Black commented (873 ) on 868 which laid out the remaining setup possibilities, and agreed with my proposed plan was was based in part on the remaining possibilities, I have a super hard time believing Black's 1029 is anything other than a clumsy attempt to excuse her certainty that there are exactly two scum remaining.

holy crinkleberries that's a good point

ladies and gentlemen and all genders of the earth unite

we got her

Me not reading stuff is nothing new but nice try scum

Yea ketchup's reaction to that feels super piggybacky to a point where even i'm raising eyebrows.

[OopsieDaisy]

Considering Black commented (873 ) on 868 which laid out the remaining setup possibilities, and agreed with my proposed plan was was based in part on the remaining possibilities, I have a super hard time believing Black's 1029 is anything other than a clumsy attempt to excuse her certainty that there are exactly two scum remaining.

I didn't read the spoilers in 868

Cause yea this is a reasonable explanation for the 1029 comment imo.

[OopsieDaisy]

Considering Black commented (873 ) on 868 which laid out the remaining setup possibilities, and agreed with my proposed plan was was based in part on the remaining possibilities, I have a super hard time believing Black's 1029 is anything other than a clumsy attempt to excuse her certainty that there are exactly two scum remaining.

I didn't read the spoilers in 868

Cause yea this is a reasonable explanation for the 1029 comment imo.

That was after my reaction

Yea but still it proves you were overreacting tho.

[OopsieDaisy]

i can see a world where halfasleep is teamed with the elements/enchant slot. points out the possibility el & i could be teamed but wants me out first specifically, then after that they can use my flip to lock el as town since i was vouching for the slot and the associative read is gone.

to be clear, this is not the case. you flipping town would only mean my ping on how you two were interacting was wrong, enchant's slot doesn't have any towncred in my eyes and i wouldn't take them out of my poe that easily. the most i said was that i might want to switch them with ketchup's slot in order of flip priority if you're green.

you can say this but like, nothing you say here disproves my theory imo. like, an excuse to kick the death of your teammate down the road is worth taking, and the fact you wanted me out before em does mean something for how i'm gonna read associatives between you two. i think pulling off the progression of saying you were only gonna move them a lil bit down your readlist and then deciding a day after that wait daisy's death does rly point to el being town maybe we should look somewhere else would work and can easily be played as a natural progression. i can't just take your word you'd have stuck to that poe can i?

[OopsieDaisy]

Considering Black commented (873 ) on 868 which laid out the remaining setup possibilities, and agreed with my proposed plan was was based in part on the remaining possibilities, I have a super hard time believing Black's 1029 is anything other than a clumsy attempt to excuse her certainty that there are exactly two scum remaining.

I didn't read the spoilers in 868

Cause yea this is a reasonable explanation for the 1029 comment imo.

That was after my reaction

Yea but still it proves you were overreacting tho.

yeah I probably was it was past midnight and at the time it seemed like the best spot ever

I still think it’s a pretty good spot

Yea it's always good to question stuff like that that's true

[OopsieDaisy]

i can see a world where halfasleep is teamed with the elements/enchant slot. points out the possibility el & i could be teamed but wants me out first specifically, then after that they can use my flip to lock el as town since i was vouching for the slot and the associative read is gone.

to be clear, this is not the case. you flipping town would only mean my ping on how you two were interacting was wrong, enchant's slot doesn't have any towncred in my eyes and i wouldn't take them out of my poe that easily. the most i said was that i might want to switch them with ketchup's slot in order of flip priority if you're green.

you can say this but like, nothing you say here disproves my theory imo. like, an excuse to kick the death of your teammate down the road is worth taking, and the fact you wanted me out before em does mean something for how i'm gonna read associatives between you two. i think pulling off the progression of saying you were only gonna move them a lil bit down your readlist and then deciding a day after that wait daisy's death does rly point to el being town maybe we should look somewhere else would work and can easily be played as a natural progression. i can't just take your word you'd have stuck to that poe can i?

it also makes sense last night to position against me instead of ming since ming's lim was p much set on stone after the first couple days of discussion. you accused me of laying groundwork for tonight but that logic could v easily be applied to you too with the push on me right?

[OopsieDaisy]

yeah I probably was it was past midnight and at the time it seemed like the best spot ever

I still think it’s a pretty good spot

Yea it's always good to question stuff like that that's true

My worry was more about the world where you see a good player make a read with strong reasoning on a townie and your response being to amplify that. But that can just as easily be the case of you see a good point and want our focus on it so yea it feels bad faith to keep pushing this.

[OopsieDaisy]

wait ketchup are you arguing saying that black saying that this game having 2 scum would not make sense balance wise and black claiming she thinks 2 scum are left are statement at odds with each other? cause like, they're not. black is clearly talking about 2 scum overall in the game vs 2 scum left alive now. csf was shot last night lmao.

[OopsieDaisy]

like are you just trying to tilt her or wha

[OopsieDaisy]

Why does this need to be a 1v1?

[OopsieDaisy]

Yea don't let ketchup tilt you tho. I think you're town and I don't want you forced out of the game cause of this innit.

[OopsieDaisy]

Well, you could be sk but that's not the prio right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think I wanna lim in Ketchup/HA/experience. Do not like how Ketchup has gone about the Black push here at all.

Light tr
Black tr
Imag tr
El/En slot kinda tr?

These townreads leave the poe I wanna work on. HA I'm finding hard to sort cause pushes can throw my radar off a lot and experience I've tried to interact with but it's just so hard to actually have thoughts on that slot (no offence experience i've just had a lot to think about with everyone else).

[OopsieDaisy]

od sure does love supporting black eh

real and true

[OopsieDaisy]

El/En slot kinda tr?

why?

do you not remember the read that started your associative read with me and that slot? el's sorting of me d1 is v townie to me. it's just that's all the slot has done that's townie to me and the longer the game goes on the more that read is waning.

[OopsieDaisy]

El/En slot kinda tr?

why?

do you not remember the read that started your associative read with me and that slot? el's sorting of me d1 is v townie to me. it's just that's all the slot has done that's townie to me and the longer the game goes on the more that read is waning.

i do remember. i was i guess mistakenly thinking that you meant it when you were floating me being the one partnered with them. i just thought it was notable that you seemed to have circled back around to townreading the slot after that and wanted to see if you had newer thoughts there.

i mean i do think the pairing i see between you and elements/enchant has a decent possibility of existing, hence why i pushed it, but there are so many pairings that can exist right now that's just one world of many. i wasn't being dishonest when i made the push but i'm not gonna tunnel in on one possibility when thinking broadly about the game.

[OopsieDaisy]

El/En slot kinda tr?

why?

do you not remember the read that started your associative read with me and that slot? el's sorting of me d1 is v townie to me. it's just that's all the slot has done that's townie to me and the longer the game goes on the more that read is waning.

i do remember. i was i guess mistakenly thinking that you meant it when you were floating me being the one partnered with them. i just thought it was notable that you seemed to have circled back around to townreading the slot after that and wanted to see if you had newer thoughts there.

i mean i do think the pairing i see between you and elements/enchant has a decent possibility of existing, hence why i pushed it, but there are so many pairings that can exist right now that's just one world of many. i wasn't being dishonest when i made the push but i'm not gonna tunnel in on one possibility when thinking broadly about the game.

fair enough. should i assume you're unwilling to lim enchant today?

it would take some convincing.

[OopsieDaisy]

understandable one way or the other. do you have a first choice out of myself, ketchup and experience?

right now ketchup is frontrunning cause of recency bias with the black push and how that was handled, but we'll see what ketchup does tomozzles after a reset.

[OopsieDaisy]

Imag if the only buddy you see for Black is a townlean, that's a massive problem for your case. Why are you still trying to push this through it feels like you're hella tunneled right now.

[OopsieDaisy]

Tho idk if I'm just going crazy I just do not get what is so scummy about Black right now. I mean maybe that is because as Imag says I'm the only buddy he can see so obvs I'm not seeing any buddies whatsoever (no shot Imag and Black are teamed cause this push is coming outta nowhere).

[OopsieDaisy]

Like surely if anything lack of knowledge about the set-up is a +town thing cause mafia would have talked about it in the PT trying to figure out which set-up we're in with Light's cop claim and the extra kills coming through.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like surely if anything lack of knowledge about the set-up is a +town thing cause mafia would have talked about it in the PT trying to figure out which set-up we're in with Light's cop claim and the extra kills coming through.

Should rephrase to a -mafia thing, since SK exists and she can still be one.

[OopsieDaisy]

Like surely if anything lack of knowledge about the set-up is a +town thing cause mafia would have talked about it in the PT trying to figure out which set-up we're in with Light's cop claim and the extra kills coming through.

methought any alignment would know about the setup and she just felt like lying to seem less engaged and not get scumread

it's a fine base level expectation but not everyone is gonna go hard reading the setup and figuring out all the possibilities. i just think mafia are more likely to have a better knowledge of the setup cause there was an extra kill N0, so mafia prolly sat and talked about which world they're in theorising about SK or vig worlds.

[OopsieDaisy]

@Daisy as ketchup says the argument is Black lied about not knowing the setup, not that not knowing the setup is scummy.

Yea I guess I just trust her on that then lmao

[OopsieDaisy]

my preference is ketchup > experience > HA > enchant

[OopsieDaisy]

i don't think it's impossible for HA to make the post she did as scum but it's good enough that i want ketchup and experience limmed more now.

[OopsieDaisy]

And Daisy, you said you were open to limming experience - how strongly do you prefer limming ketchup? Would you consider switching to experience (if you, Enchant and halfasleep do, I would too)?

Not incredibly strongly. It's the difference between someone who's done more scummy and more townie things, and someone who I just can't sort one way or the other. I'm inclined to want to vote Ketchup out more because I think the action around the slot today makes the flip better, but ya the issue with experience is I feel like they can be with anyone. My issue with voting experience is information and my own personal bias. I'm more inclined to want inactive slots who haven't contributed much out of the game (see BR day 1 as an example), so I try and fight my urge to do that when I can + I don't see how an experience flip helps progress the game into tomorrow night super well compared to ketchup where we have some good sauce to work with.

Also hearing Ketchup talk about how HA is good at being seen as town makes me wanna keep that option open idk if we should be backing off completely there now that I'm hearing that.

[OopsieDaisy]

I am aware that the justification behind ming's flip would be that it would open up the game and instead we just ended up stalling, so maybe using that logic with Ketchup as well is a bad idea. Yeah I can probably do Experience then if you wanna rally for that.

[OopsieDaisy]

ketchup/imaginality is too obvious to exist right

[OopsieDaisy]

im gonna say so vote exp and pray

[OopsieDaisy]

ok imag is vig or sk then right? can't think of an immediate reason for mafia to make this claim.

[OopsieDaisy]

Please don't discuss if imaginality is SK or not.

I think that's a little silly cause if imag is sk imag can make the game unwillable for town tonight. Obvs mafia should just kill imag but I think dismissing any discussion around that isn't it.

Our focus should be on finding mafia tho, we now know the source of the extra kills and know mafia killed Cee Mirage, Doctor Drew & Light.

[OopsieDaisy]

I think Cee Mirage was just generally quite a townie slot and Light was a pretty obvious kill post-claim, but we've still got that delayed Drew kill that exists.

[OopsieDaisy]

Knowing the source of the extra kills is Imag also means we can rule out any teams with Imag. I was worried about Ketchup/Imag at the end of yesterday but that probably isn't a thing anymore.

[OopsieDaisy]

Knowing the source of the extra kills is Imag also means we can rule out any teams with Imag. I was worried about Ketchup/Imag at the end of yesterday but that probably isn't a thing anymore.

I think probably is the wrong word. I don't see how they could possibly be partnered

Yea this.

[OopsieDaisy]

i still think the enchant/daisy team is pretty likely. i don't think my impression of daisy and elements looking partnered was wrong and enchant was borderline openwolfing yesternight. ketchup's post about black above is pretty wild (though the mechposting so far tonight looks fairly genuine) but if ketchup is scum i'm struggling to see him partnered with enchant, which would make me worried my townvibe on black is wrong and they're bussing.

i think it's probably just enchant/daisy, though. vote enchant imo.

Would you be down to vote Daisy first?

wait wtf why?

[OopsieDaisy]

nah it's not about that tho, the progression from must lim ketchup to can we vote daisy has been so quick

[OopsieDaisy]

i wish omg

[OopsieDaisy]

i'd be so proud of our distancing lmao. set up to push each other out but managing to dodge it each time through reasonable read progression.

[OopsieDaisy]

VOTE: Daisy

why me over HA?

[OopsieDaisy]

ok do you wanna tell the class why instead of just stating it

[OopsieDaisy]

cause if you are town and push the group to lim me you throw the entire game right now and i believe you're town so like, i need you on my side so that we can win this game

[OopsieDaisy]

how are we supposed to have a productive conversation about this if you're not gonna give your reasons

[OopsieDaisy]

cause if you are town and push the group to lim me you throw the entire game right now and i believe you're town so like, i need you on my side so that we can win this game

What is your preferred lim order?

fuck knows my head's scrambled right now lmao.

i know not you i know not imag that leaves enchant ketchup and ha. they can all be paired with each other imo. still hate ketchup's push on you yesterday, like HA's eod yesterday, enchant is ?. so I guess right now it's ketchup > enchant > HA.

[OopsieDaisy]

are we really losing this game because i correctly found you as town and defended you from a silly push. yes i make my read progressions clear, in every single game i've played on this site, because that's how you make your thought proesses clear to people. you know this is how i play why are you pulling this out as a +scum thing for me to do.

don't get why enchant and HA do not make sense as partners either, spent a decent amount of yesterday talking about that with HA. i suppose despite the pushes we've had against each other ha & i do make sense together, but yea i'm most likely with enchant i've defended that slot so much over one read this game. your poe point does make sense even if i don't get the ketchup tr.

[OopsieDaisy]

you know this is how i play why are you pulling this out as a +scum thing for me to do.

I've played one game with you, and I'm pretty sure in that game you said you play the same way as scum?

yes, that still doesn't mean it's a +scum thing to do. that would make it NAI.

[OopsieDaisy]

then your vibes and gut are completely wrong and idk what i'm supposed to do to convince you otherwise

[OopsieDaisy]

like i just feel powerless right now. according to the setup (if ive read the thread right) its two mafia, imag as vig/sk, and then three other townies. we vote wrong today, we lose. you've switched 180 degrees on me because i want to be super open about my reads and ive pointed out shitty points in pushes on you. neither of those things are scummy to me. aaaaaaa

[OopsieDaisy]

My vote isn't set in stone. I'd like to hear what the others have to say

well yea but i still don't know what *i* can do to convince you otherwise. i don't rly trust anyone else in this game right now to back me up (imag i guess but could just be sk so technically not all that trustworthy) so if this is the case we're fucked.

[OopsieDaisy]

i mean i guess i just gotta get to solving and hope you listen innit. i should sleep tho, come back after i've had a breather and see what i can do.

[OopsieDaisy]

Daisy why didn't you vote for ketchup? There was pretty equal support between the two wagons at EOD yesterday

Imag asked and I got scared of ketchup being town and my logic of going for info flips booming us. experience in my mind could've been paired with anyone and would've been an inevitable vote at some point because idk how we were supposed to sort that slot.

[OopsieDaisy]

i mean i guess i just gotta get to solving and hope you listen innit. i should sleep tho, come back after i've had a breather and see what i can do.

Show is better than tell! I'm curious why you don't really seem interested in changing halfasleep's mind

cause HA's been reading me evil for days now, I gave my counterpoints to HA and I know I can get tunneled on the person pushing me when put under pressure so I didn't push it any further.

[OopsieDaisy]

if it's ketchup/enchant and HA/Black are on me the game is already lost so I can't afford to consider that world.

ketchup/black no shot. enchant doesn't move onto black here if they're partnered imo, so enchant/black prolly doesn't exist. enchant/ha can defo exist. ketchup/ha can defo exist. ha/black both just turning on me like this i guess works if they're both evil, it's really bold tho cause black is turning me on her when she could just sit and let the ketchup lim happen. tho she's proved a very clear awareness that this in theory is townie to do and so the logic used to push me for trying to overperform townyness works against black too.

HA is evil in all the worlds that make sense to me that aren't just lost worlds already so i'd most want a vote there.