Martyr Mafia - Game Over

[ortolan]

k, God.

[Bloodmoney]

Why wouldn't you want to see reactions in this particular game? Don't you want the cult leaders accidentally slipping info on who your God is? Of course, the question is rhetorical, considering you are a cult leader.

You aren't reaction-mining, you are being belligerent. Two very different things. The point is you aren't doing any convincing of your findings, but simply moving on to get angry at others. Which makes me question why you did it in the first place.

Big game, multiple targets. I have to get my bearings too, why do you expect me to finger scum based on a small pool of reactions?

Oh? Why was that? To the best of my knowledge ortolan has a voice of his own. Need your recruit/leader alive?

An honest mixup turned into a cult leader-recruit relationship? One aptitude of belligerent people is finding conflict where there is none. Another is finding connections where there isn't any, as in the case of me and zach.

That wasn't even directed at you. Why answer?

QUOTE ME.

Ok, thank you. You could do that next time without me having to cuss at you.

Tell me, how is that the same as dropping the case? I dropped the line of questioning, because he gave me what I asked for. It doesn't absolve him of the lack of initial contribution, but there is nothing further I can ask of him at that point.

Also, you realize this vote makes no sense whatsoever, don't you? Even if you had basis for it (which "excessive fingerpointing" isn't), simply by stating the "pressure vote" nature of it you rob it of any purpose it would otherwise have had; because now I know that you wouldn't have the guts to go through with lynching me.

I'm not making a case against you, I am simply defending myself. You made an accusation way back when and I'm doing my best to convince you otherwise of your faulty logic. I never said you were God/Cult/Scum/whatever and I never said I wanted to lynch you. It has nothing to do with guts because I don't think you are God, but a horribly misguided agnostic. And I don't want to lynch agnostics, but to educate them.

Why does defending yourself include voting me? Why do you have to explicitly state the "pressure vote" characteristic of your vote? If you think I'm an agnostic, do you really think the best way to "educate" and reform me is to OMGUS me? Nicely done buddying up, btw.

Also, actually stating that you think I don't have the guts to lynch you is a very big mistake on your part, because not only are you belligerent, but you are cocky and think you're invincible. You don't win as town by standing out like that. There is someone like you in every game I play and

almost

every time they make a bad decision with consequences against the town. I'm simply tired of seeing such self-destructive behavior.

Huh? And I'm getting personal? I work my ass off scraping together working material for this town, and I'm being destructive. Huh. I guess I'll just make like the lurkers here and hope to be recruited for an easy win.

DGB, for reference, do you mean bussing as lynching a scumpartner to appear innocent, or simply distancing?

eh; something happened and my post didn't happen or something.
I'm agreeing with MK on the grounds of playing for future WinCons, I want bloodymonkey or someone to point people that seem to be playing like this, because apparently I'm blind.

All of the lurkers are either scum or playing towards an expected wincon of recruited cult: Erratus Apathos, Indigo Heron, Double A, ortolan, qwints. Quite probably more. And yes, it's MONEY, not monkey.

ortolan, post 337, note how zwet's defense is snuck in there with the implication that he would be a mislynch. If you have a scummy read of him, why do you think he'd be a mislynch, do tell?

"But furthermore the cult leaders have no particular reason to dissociate themselves from God-"

Try thinking of AItP. But with the assassin having a very sucky role. And the guards being cultists in 3 different groups. and add a bunch of vanillas waiting to be recruited who for the moment want god lynched instead.

What purpose does this post serve? The analogy is overly complicated and completely useless, especially since you don't explain the referenced strategy in AItP, without which your point has no purpose.

ortolan, why am I god? Other than my obvious godliness, of course.

[populartajo]

Maybe I should post here more.
I will.

[DrippingGoofball]

DGB, for reference, do you mean bussing as lynching a scumpartner to appear innocent, or simply distancing?

Both. It may mean voting a buddy when it's clear the buddy won't be lynched, or it may mean actually pushing for a buddy's lynch.

[ortolan]

ortolan, post 337, note how zwet's defense is snuck in there with the implication that he would be a mislynch. If you have a scummy read of him, why do you think he'd be a mislynch, do tell?

I did already explain that even if he's one of the seven scum we only want to lynch one- God, whom I doubt he is. Plus his actions may otherwise be explained by newness anyhow. It's quite simple really.

All of the lurkers are either scum or playing towards an expected wincon of recruited cult: Erratus Apathos, Indigo Heron, Double A, ortolan, qwints. Quite probably more.

Is this a slip? You seem to think I am playing for future recruitment (i.e. playing pro-scum) while knowing that I am not presently scum.

I need to look at that exchange between BM, MM and MK referred to in Bloodmoney's post above to see if they're possibly cult leaders/recruits/God trying to hint at lynch targets between one another.

[SilverPhoenix]

First,

mod, can we prod EA and Sir Tornado if you haven't already

? Thanks.

Nicely done buddying up, btw.

Explain what you mean by this. I think I know, so I'll tie it in to one of your other comments.....(see below)

That wasn't even directed at you. Why answer?

Because it wasn't really a question, but an argument. I like pointing out arguments that I find faulty. I did the same when you attacked zach (which started this whole spat), and I do it all the time in all of my games. It is something I do regardless of alignment, my meta so-to-speak. Look up Open 101 if you want proof, because I did exactly the same thing with SensFan.

I get the feeling too many people here are playing to an expected win condition. If you're not recruited, boys and girls, play like a townie for fuckssake. Seriously. Grow a pair.

I believe I've said this before, but I would like this to be entirely clear: DO NOT PLAY TO AN EXPECTED WIN CONDITION. I see too many people doing just that. In the here and now, every agnostic's duty should be to find God and preferably today, while we're in majority. So move your lazy asses and

stop lurking and being scummy

already.

All of the lurkers are either scum or playing towards an expected wincon of recruited cult: Erratus Apathos, Indigo Heron, Double A, ortolan, qwints. Quite probably more.

And yes, it's MONEY, not monkey.

Bolded important stuff above. I'm trying to find the purpose of the

wording

of these posts. I just wrote a bunch of stuff, but it was stupid and I need to think more. Something just....

bugs

me about it. Part of it deals with the comment I made earlier about putting the blame on so many people. Part of it deals with it being repeated so much, like that your opinion is god-like and should be followed (i.e. instead of being lurking sheep with no opinion, they should be lurking sheep with

your

opinion). Essentially, this is the kind of thing you only say once, yet you say it three times.

Big game, multiple targets. I have to get my bearings too, why do you expect me to finger scum based on a small pool of reactions?

No, but I expect focus in dealing with those reactions and what they mean. Simply stating that half the players are lurking scum doesn't matter to finding the real scum, aside from any reactions they the lurkers find alarming enough to comment on (which so far hasn't been the case).

[X]

I think we can say that someone that has claimed cult till now, can't be god. God would never wifom us that way, as it would make people look at him. He doesn't want to be in the center of the attention.

Can you say "WIFOM?" Someone playing aggressively, saying that God will play not like him?

FoS: mykonian.

Again.

Wifom? yes. Likely? no.

mykonian stop digging your grave and trying to derail the town.

Are you saying that mykonian is scummy, anti-town, or both? If both, it's not something he's likely to stop.

Players that are NOT god:

Jahudo
Silver Phoenix
zachattack
Jebus
X

Flattered...but how did you come to these conclusions (especially regarding Jebus)? Given, you changed your mind later, but I'd like to know what you were thinking at the time.

Wait, wait, I'm cult leader, right? Then it makes sense to deflect off God, right? (/endsarcasm)

Um yes. Sarcasm or not what you say is correct.

You must protect him, or everything is lost.

Your point with the sarcasm tags?

QFT.

And I don't want to lynch agnostics, but to educate them.

That's what the Catholics tell me.

Jebus' post 331 is poor, IMO. I think he's making a weak case, especially seeing as much of his criticism of ZSW is simply ZSW's brevity. ZSW's response is also adequate.

pacman:

Has 3 posts. A late random vote, a request for prods (ironic) combined with an FoS of ZSW, and a question of "What do we do?"

I've been busy, and I don't get this game.

Then replace out.

[mask man]

Maybe I should post here more.
I will.

Thank you for the contribution toja, it really helped us.

[zwetschenwasser]

I don't think Blood is helping much.

[Bloodmoney]

DGB, for reference, do you mean bussing as lynching a scumpartner to appear innocent, or simply distancing?

Both. It may mean voting a buddy when it's clear the buddy won't be lynched, or it may mean actually pushing for a buddy's lynch.

You do agree, then, that the latter type of bussing--going through with the lynch--will not likely happen with god as the lynchee? This is an important point by which God can be found later on; consider Lover Mafia.

All of the lurkers are

either

(scum)

or

(playing towards an expected wincon of recruited cult): Erratus Apathos, Indigo Heron, Double A, ortolan, qwints. Quite probably more.

Is this a slip? You seem to think I am playing for future recruitment (i.e. playing pro-scum) while knowing that I am not presently scum.

Please note the formatting in the initial quote. You either don't read what you quote, or you are opting for blatant misrepping instead of actual helpful contribution. Feel free to tell me if it's the latter.

Bolded important stuff above. I'm trying to find the purpose of the wording of these posts. I just wrote a bunch of stuff, but it was stupid and I need to think more. Something just....bugs me about it. Part of it deals with the comment I made earlier about putting the blame on so many people. Part of it deals with it being repeated so much, like that your opinion is god-like and should be followed (i.e. instead of being lurking sheep with no opinion, they should be lurking sheep with your opinion). Essentially, this is the kind of thing you only say once, yet you say it three times.

I would only have to say it once if people who weren't scum stopped lurking and started helping find god. And I never said my opinion is god-like. Hell no, feel free to bring something of your own to the table, but I don't see this from a lot of people. I don't want lurking sheep with my opinion, I want active people with opinions that help pinpoint the one person three/six people aren't willing to lynch.

Simply stating that half the players are lurking scum doesn't matter to finding the real scum, aside from any reactions they the lurkers find alarming enough to comment on (which so far hasn't been the case).

Is there someone in particular who's lurking that you want to defend?

unvote, vote: qwints

Are you saying that mykonian is scummy, anti-town, or both? If both, it's not something he's likely to stop.

I'm saying that his logic is painfully obviously broken and he should realize it. The derailing the town comment is about how he draws people to comment on his broken logic. So, anti-town and not specifically scummy.

I don't think Blood is helping much.

I don't think zwet is helping at all.

[ting =)]

Sorry for the long no post, I just read the past few pages.

I don't buy ortolan's and qwints votes on Jebus. I don't like zwet's either. DGB's vote on Jebus is the only one that seems to have an actual reason behind it, but I don't buy it. If Jebus is being bussed, then he won't be God. Besides, the cult leaders don't know each other. God doesn't know the recruits either. And I'm assuming that the recruits don't know God. Whatever his role, him being bussed can't be right.

Pacman still hasn't said anything. I don't like qwints' unvote. It seems like you're pulling out since the Jebus wagon has no steam.

I'll reread and pick someone to vote tomorrow.

[qwints]

You don't like my vote, but you don't like my unvote? That makes a lot of sense.

[populartajo]

Maybe I should post here more.
I will.

Thank you for the contribution toja, it really helped us.

Glad you liked it.
Ill finish my reread tonight.

[ting =)]

You don't like my vote, but you don't like my unvote? That makes a lot of sense.

Zomg. All this spinning is making me dizzy.

I don't like your vote because you just hopped on.

This

unvote, vote Jebus

I don't like your unvote because you just hopped off.

Thorough posts are not scummy. unvote

[Lord Gurgi]

The Seventh "Live by the sword, die by the stake" Votecount:

"'I see', said the blind man."
----Bible

Bloodmoney --- 2 {mykonian, SilverPhoenix}
DrippingGoofball --- 1 {Sir Tornado}
Erratus Apathos --- 0 {None}
Jahudo --- 0 {None}
Jebus --- 5 {X, ortolan, zwetschenwasser, DrippingGoofball, mask man}
mask man --- 0 {None}
mykonian --- 1 {Jebus}
ortolan --- 0 {None}
pacman281292 --- 0 {None}
populartajo --- 0 {None}
qwints --- 1 {Bloodmoney}
SilverPhoenix --- 0 {None}
Indigo Heron --- 0 {None}
Sir Tornado --- 1 {Ting =)}
Ting =) --- 0 {None}
Double A --- 1 {pacman281292}
X --- 0 {None}
zachattack --- 0 {None}
Zakeri --- 4{populartajo, Erratus Apathos, Jahudo, zachattack}
zwetschenwasser --- 0 {None}

Not Voting --- 4 {Indigo Heron, Double A, Zakeri, qwints}

Eleven votes to lynch. The deadline is on February 21st at 4:00 PM PST.

Thumb twiddling contest!

Disclaimer: This is just flavour, anything you think you're getting from it, you're not. There's nothing here to get. Go away.

[Jebus]

My response to zwet's response to me, and some other stuffs.

1> To act crazy

I'm about halfway satisfied with this.

2> Seeing how people went nuts over it, I did it again so I could pay attention to reactions

Why were the reactions the first time not good enough? I still think claiming God was going too far.

3> That's the only reason I'm voting for you, and it came after my God claim.

This doesn't answer my question. You had four posts in between your claim and your vote on me - all of which were unrelated to a possible vote on me. So I ask again, why did you take so long to come to the conclusion my reaction wasn't quite right?

4> You are correct

Fair enough.

5> If you don't believe me, you can go through the trouble of looking for them yourself. I just completed my first MafiaScum game (not other forum game), which was Election, and I was the town cop.

Acceptable.

6> I'll do some.

a)early meta justification for a random vote, mainly a joke

Still, you made it sound like your reasoning, and despite being early on, it didn't sound like a joke to me.

b)that was the thought. The vote was scummy, without good reasons, and opportunistic

'Kay.

c)I was very tired, and I wanted to be a little crazy, so I screwed around by claiming ICL. When I saw that it started some reactions, I did it again (this time to be useful)

Again, what was wrong with the reactions to the first claim?

d)maskman voted me for making a joke, and he said srsly?, so I did it right back at him.

Heh. Not sure I like this one, but 'kay.

e)he was being a jerk to everyone and acting like he owned the world and could just curse at everyone and act nastily. Venting my frustration at him.

But why did you vote Zakeri? That was the question - what's the reasoning behind that vote?

f)someone came up with the possibility of me being a genius that could use reverse-reverse psychology to make me not look like god, and then said that he didn't think I could be so smart, so yeah. I'm not god though, and the post amused me.

Sounds like WIFOM to me. And where'd Double A come into that?

g)DGB was saying that I was scum because I was agnostic. Hello?

(?) - quote this please?

h)g was the DGB reason, and Double A looked a little too noobish to not put some suspicion on him.

Skill level shouldn't affect who you put suspicion on - it's actions.

i)I realized Double A was a noob, and posted that I believed that he probably was an agnostic still getting the feel of the game and learning stuff. The second half was a joke.

Hm. 'Kay.

j)Pacman's actively lurking and I don't like that. I'm suspecting him right now, right after you.

Fair enough.

k)DGB crazily switched to supporting me. First she was calling me obvscum and then she started saying "good catch, buddy! You're right! Pacman is obvscum! Lynch him quick!" Seemed too convenient to me.

I see. Like him, though, I think you're a recruit - someone we don't need to lynch.

l)I've already explained that what I learned from the first time was that I could get some great reactions from claiming God

Same question as before.

m)I already explained why your reaction was strange. I thought you should have noticed I was trying to get reactions and just leave me alone, not ask for me to get replaced. That's a large part of why I'm voting for you.

I ask people who claim scum to replace out because it's no fun when someone claims scum - they're either scum and they've given the town a free scumkill (which is very much against the spirit of the game), or they're town and want to be offed. I'm sort of surprised you weren't lynched for that kill.

o)DGB called my Jebus vote opportunistic towards wherever the town was going. The town wasn't going towards you, it was going towards Zakeri, so DGB's point was flawed.

Not really - as I said, you waited till five~ posts later to vote for me. Opportunistic only because of the timeline - before, you were apologetic, and made no mention of my reaction until five posts later.

p)Sarcasm. DGB was being completely opportunistic, after calling me out on it.

'kay.

q)It is clearly untrue. And don't start talking about me being apologetic, because it was mainly meant to appease you from your overreaction.

Um... 'kay? Either way, this still doesn't answer why you didn't hop on my wagon 'till much later.

I think you could have figured out most of my trains of thought without this rundown, and by asking these questions you are making yourself even more suspicious. I'm not that unclear, even with one-liners, and you make it seem like I'm actively trying to confuse people with undecipherable logic, which is not true.

Again, as I said when I responded before, I wanted clarification - I had a general idea of where you were going, but I wanted to be sure before I called you out on anything. And questioning doesn't make one suspicious - you are unclear with your one liners, I'm not really sure in which direction to take most of your posts, which doesn't help me. I'm not saying this is a scumtell, I'm saying that while you may understand your thinking, someone else might not.

Current thought - DGB is God. Zwet is Islamic CL.

^Though very likely wrong. I'd still like to hear what people have to say on it, though.

Still looking for a response.

He didn't even give me a compliment.

Sorry D:

For the moment, I merely have time to check to see if you answered - I don't really have time to figure out what answer goes to what question (basically, tl;dr at the moment).

Oh, the irony of that statement: "The One-Liner" writing a post too long to read. XD

I know, really xD

yes...

Describe Jebus' meta.

Ortolan: Still waiting on this.

And DGB, this is why I'm holding off on saying something about Ort. Though as of now, I agree his vote is bull.

Lol,
now that everyone has had a chance to die laughing...
Jebus, the only one of your attacks on zwet which have really phased me are numbers 3 and 5.

> You slightly change your reasoning to get on a wagon.
> You almost never explain your thinking.

Go on, please.

Still liking the Jebus wagon

He concoted a huge attack vote post against zwet, which suggests he is sweating at the prospect of being lynched

Though that's not the case - I was pretty unhappy with not being able to completely understand where he was going with his posts.

most of this post is "explain that thought" with little real analysis. Yes zwet comes across as scummy (new), but unfortunately in this game you can't ride by on getting mislynches like that today, because we are only looking for one very specific scum playa. I think you're much more likely to be He than zwet is.

I wasn't really accusing Zwet of being scum, moreso I was asking further before I take it anywhere - I really don't/didn't expect a Zwet wagon, either.

This "bussing God" discussion is stupid. It certainly couldn't be the form of a normal bus- if God dies then they lose automatically. But furthermore the cult

leaders

have no particular reason to dissociate themselves from God- if they get lynched then they've lost anyway so they don't care if God gets caught as a result of their flip. Perhaps their recruits might care more. I am thinking in general the cults would react tentatively towards votes on God and if they looked serious/dangerous then start to jump in by arguing against them.

Agreed. The prospect of CL's bussing God is sorta rediculous :s

pacman:

Has 3 posts. A late random vote, a request for prods (ironic) combined with an FoS of ZSW, and a question of "What do we do?"

I've been busy, and I don't get this game.

Then replace out?

I thought Double A was pretending to know less than he did, with his "what's an FoS" and "I'm confused" posts. But I realized later that my thinking was really stupid, and he is just getting a feel for the game, so I killed my suspicion of him. And I'm definitely not trying to discredit the guy. I'm just pointing out my thoughts on him. If he comes up with good arguments I'll be more than willing to follow and back them up. Pacman, could you put that quote in context? I can't find the post where I said that. Why are you repeating your excuse of "being confused" over and over again? All you have to do is read the first post of the game. You are now more than ever, number 2 on my scum list.

Better explanation on Double A, I'm now satisfied. As for the Pacman quote bit, didn't you just say that you were referring to DGB buddying up with you using the reasoning as Pacman's lurking?

Is your memory faulty, or was that a load of bull when you explained it to me?

Maybe I should post here more.
I will.

Please do.

I don't think Blood is helping much.

Go on.

You don't like my vote, but you don't like my unvote? That makes a lot of sense.

Zomg. All this spinning is making me dizzy.

I don't like your vote because you just hopped on.

This

unvote, vote Jebus

I don't like your unvote because you just hopped off.

Thorough posts are not scummy. unvote

QFT


For Zwet - Just out of curiousity, who is on your scumlist?
For DGB - What was the reasoning behind your "These people are probably not God, and those possibly God?" list?


And for now,

Vote: qwints

- I like where this (to be) wagon is going, and Ting's 363 is a real kicker as well.

[mask man]

"Go on" Jebus?

[Jebus]

Means "explain that thought further"

[mask man]

*implodes*
That thought of mine was rather complete if you ask me.
Anyway I'm getting a little less hard on jebus, but still...
Considering zwet + jebus cult

[Jebus]

No, I was wondering why those questions phased you.

[zwetschenwasser]

I was going to answer your questions until you asked "who's on your scum list?" Don't treat me like an idiot. You are scum. The end.

[Erratus Apathos]

Every time I check in we're even further away from lynching Zakeri-God. Why's that?

*reads through*

Oh, because all the cultists are bussing Jebus-God. That makes sense. And by "makes sense", I mean "couldn't possibly make sense".

[Jebus]

I was going to answer your questions until you asked "who's on your scum list?" Don't treat me like an idiot. You are scum. The end.

How the hell am I treating you like an idiot? I'm asking you questions because I don't understand what you're saying. What's so wrong about that?

And can you actually make a case on me with anything but the reaction to your claim?

[Double A]

Wow, was I gone long...

Anyway, sorry for lurking for a while, but it was because I have this stupid paper do for the Model UN thing they tricked me into joining for.

I've considered the evidence and have concluded that Jebus has the highest chance of either being god, or his kid (because of his name).

So,

vote: Jebus

[Jebus]

Wow, was I gone long...

Anyway, sorry for lurking for a while, but it was because I have this stupid paper do for the Model UN thing they tricked me into joining for.

I've considered the evidence and have concluded that Jebus has the highest chance of either being god, or his kid (because of his name).

So,

vote: Jebus

All I can say is

really

? You vote me because of my

name

?