Mini 746: Speed Dating - I've Had The Time Of My Life (Over)

[MonkeyMan576]

/confirm

[MonkeyMan576]

Are we supposed to talk via pm or in the thread?

[MonkeyMan576]

So Caboose, do you have any interests besides stripping?

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: Zwet

cause we gotta keep the strippers around

[MonkeyMan576]

Would the mod pair a townie with a scum at the same table?

[MonkeyMan576]

Would the mod pair a townie with a scum at the same table?

Since the pairs are rotating, I would imagine so.

But didn't he say that if your table partner is lynched, you are lynched too? How can you be expected to defend someone who might be scum?

[MonkeyMan576]

Right, I think it would be a good idea to get cracking. We can throw around random votes forever, but Zwet seems to be getting some heat - so let's take a look at what's happened.

I don't even understand who's scum and who's not.

This was brought up by Caboose who said that zwet should know the town win condition if they are Pro-Town. However, I'm not really sure that this is a tell. It took me a few minutes to get my head wrapped round who's scum and who isn't, and what we have to do to win the game.
Also, surely if he was scum, he'd understand that the scum are the married people 'cos he's one of them?

Still, Caboose earns a point in my book for having the first go at scumhunting.

Vote: Zwet

cause we gotta keep the strippers around

May be random, which is fine, but it seems a little odd that zwet already had 2 votes when this happened. Don't really know what to make of this, if indeed there is anything to make.

So that's three votes to Zwet now? Obviously I'm not voting for Zwet today since I'm at her table, although I do think Caboose has a point about the win condition.

This is going to be the very tricky thing about this game - townies will be torn between defending their partner to save themselves, and knowing that they will lose if they are lynched but wanting to help the town anyway.
The bit about the 'Caboose has a point' seems kind of non-committal. EGL, do you think that the win condition point is actually a scumtell, or just a mistake?

At the time I felt it may have been somewhat of a scumtell. After reading other points people put forward, such as he'd be able to tell who the scum is if he was one of them, it could either be just a mistake or a neutral tell in the worst scenario. Of course, the game made even said analyzing win conditions wouldn't help, so honestly I think that theory should be thrown out the window.

I'm feeling right now like Caboose and a few others are trying to manipulate the situation with Zwet, and I'm also not liking Monkey's thinking that town/scum pairings could not happen. I mean, we're rotating tables and I believe the mod said these were

random

pairings. It feels like he's trying to push Zwet and I both out, in my opinion.

I didn't say town/scum pairing could not happen, I was just wondering if it could happen or not.

[MonkeyMan576]

Please think twice before lynching my table partner. Feel free to pressure all you want though.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, Zwet is still the scummiest out there, unless someone can give me a good reason why he's not. My vote stays.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote: Zwet

Don't we should be lazy and lynch the doc just because his partner is scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

I need to explain why I don't want to lynch the doctor?

Before I thought Zwet was the scummiest, I still do, but after thinking about it we can always lynch him later. I like to think about things before acting, god forbid.

[MonkeyMan576]

No, Monkey. I want to hear an explanation for this:

Yeah, Zwet is still the scummiest out there, unless someone can give me a good reason why he's not. My vote stays.

Unvote: Zwet

Don't we should be lazy and lynch the doc just because his partner is scummy.

Both posts were made after 'the doc claim'. So why didn't you unvote the first time if you'd like to keep the 'claimed' doc around?


Mole, do you think that EGL is the doc. And if so why?

I changed my mind.

[MonkeyMan576]

Ok. I have reason to believe EGL probably is NOT a doc. I'm not claiming doc here, but based on my role, I don't think he is the doc.

I'm not going to say more than that though.

I would need more info to put a vote on a possible doctor. As of now I have no reason to trust you.

[MonkeyMan576]

The last few posts confuse me. Are people debating the viability of the doc claim, or am I missing something?

I've been thinking about it, and realised a rather startling fact. In this game, I don't think the mafia actually have a night kill. If they did, 1 mislynch followed by a NK would leave 8/9 people in the game, 2 or 3 of which could be mafia. Which, seeing as we lynch 2 by 2, is lylo. This makes me doubt the presence of a doc role in this setup, as the potential killing power of the mafia far exceed normal balance measures. Added to this zwet's actions, and I feel I have a compelling reason to vote off the entire table.

unvote, vote: zwetschenwasser

N.B. My numbers and percieved effictiveness of the mafia's supposed NK may be off. If you see any number fallacies that I may have made, please point them out so I may correct my assumptions.

Well, there could be a reviver or something to balance the game. I don't see that as a compelling reason to lynch the doctor.

[MonkeyMan576]

I still prefer Zwet as lynch, but I would like to hear first from EGL's replacement. He 'claimed' a powerrole, and should have his chance to defend himself. His death could have some influence how the game will end.

Anyway, there are two other players who caught my attention:Monkey and Mole (you can't trust other animals than penguins .
Monkey as he started to 'defend' his table partner after she got voted (post 114). He also called Zwet the scummiest in this post, but he never gave a reason for this.
But also the sudden switch about the 'doc claim'. First he did keep his vote on Zwet, but later he unvoted as he didn't want to lynch the 'claimed cop'. Both posts were made after EGL 'claimed'.

As for Mole, his reasons for voting Zwet are troubling me. He wants to see, through a lynch, who of EGL and KMD is telling the truth. He's just trusting one player who says he has info that EGL can't be a doc based upon his role PM. This faith in KMD, strikes me as odd.
Also, his second reason for voting Zwet sounds like a policy reason. I find policy reasons suspicious.

It was the doctor I didn't want to lynch, I didn't know we had a claimed cop. I didn't know changing your mind about a vote was scummy. If someone has a way to lynch someone suspicious without lynching a claimed doc, I am all for it.

[MonkeyMan576]

Aren't I glad I didn't have anything to do with the lynch of two townies...

[MonkeyMan576]

This game is way too easy. Caboose and Monkey are the scum so can we wait with lynching them until they are paired together?

I am not scum. You should be looking at the people who were in on the double townie lynch yesterday.

[MonkeyMan576]

It's really weird that two people are claiming to "know" who is scum without offering any explanation or reasoning. Townies don't know for sure who is scum unless they are cops, and I know BSG is not a cop.

[MonkeyMan576]

My PM says nothing about leaving with scum and my win condition is fairly simple. Take of that what you will.

[MonkeyMan576]

I am not scum. You should be looking at the people who were in on the double townie lynch yesterday.

Are you suggesting that people who weren't on the wagon should be discounted? Sounds like it, and that's not on.

I'm saying that people on the wagon should be considered first, and that people off the wagon should be given the benefit of the doubt, especially when accusers give no reasoning for their accusations.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

[MonkeyMan576]

Correction: Zwet, not KMD.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about

KMD

(

Zwet?

) being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

Are townies never wrong?

Sure, but your voting record is a scum tell as much as anything, and as far as I am concerned the burdon of proof is on you at this point.

[MonkeyMan576]

Vote: KMD

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

Don't like the ad hom here.

What ad hom? And even if it is, what does it matter?

Sure, but your voting record is a scum tell as much as anything, and as far as I am concerned the burdon of proof is on you at this point.

So again, the case on me is voting for a townie, right?

Voting for two townies, and from what i understand, you hammered.

[MonkeyMan576]

FOS: Caboose

then

[MonkeyMan576]

FOS: Caboose

then

For dropping a hammer?

Yep.

[MonkeyMan576]

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

[MonkeyMan576]

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

Maybe that's a negative point against you then...

I refused to vote off two townies and it's a negative point against me? Okay.

[MonkeyMan576]

Reread and I take back my last post.
I wanted to lynch Zwets too as stated, wanted to wait to lynch as I didn't
want to loose a potential doc. For some reason I thought you had a different arguement.

Sorry.

No problem, I suggest we start looking at those who were in on the vote, especially towards the end, and those who might be behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote).

[MonkeyMan576]

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

Maybe that's a negative point against you then...

I refused to vote off two townies and it's a negative point against me? Okay.

Not voting for townie lynch =/= towntell

So you don't think voting records should be considered?

[MonkeyMan576]

No, but not voting for townies doesn't clear you.

There's a difference between something being a "towntell" and being "cleared". If you want to think I'm scum that's up to you, but for myself I'm going to suggest we look heavily at voting records and suggest to others to do the same.

[MonkeyMan576]

I think one mistake towns make is saying that a day 1 townie lynch is a "good lynch" because the townie was acting scummy. The townie may have been acting scummy, but any townie lynch is NOT better than a scum lynch

[MonkeyMan576]

So The Count's vote on Zwet looked the worst IMO. Let's see if there is a case there.

Hello all.

Did a quick read.

Zwet claimed scum. EGL claimed powerrole, which I don't believe.

vote: Zwet

Ok, so this vote post was his first post. Looks like he just found the largest wagon, attacked the only thing slowing it down, and voted.

Alas, the Caboose is the scum! I stand beside you, BSG, 100%. I understand completely.

vote: Caboose

Read it.

No content until this. His last post. Calls Caboose scum with no reasoning. Just blindly follows BSG. I don't like this at all.

-Wagon'd Zwet
-Never backed the Zwet vote
-lurking
-No reasons to vote Caboose
-Blindly following BSG

Vote The Count

I agree with all you points, and his partner, BSG, could be scum too, so a double scum lynch would be great.

Vote: The Count

[MonkeyMan576]

No, but not voting for townies doesn't clear you.

There's a difference between something being a "towntell" and being "cleared". If you want to think I'm scum that's up to you, but for myself I'm going to suggest we look heavily at voting records and suggest to others to do the same.

Not being on town wagons is not even a towntell.
In fact, it's a very very very very mild scumtell.

Stop trying to declare yourself town because you didn't vote for zwet. It's kind of scummy.

I didn't declare myself town, I was defending myself against people who were calling me out without any reasoning. And explain to me how refusing to vote off townies is a scumtell.

[MonkeyMan576]

No, but not voting for townies doesn't clear you.

There's a difference between something being a "towntell" and being "cleared". If you want to think I'm scum that's up to you, but for myself I'm going to suggest we look heavily at voting records and suggest to others to do the same.

Not being on town wagons is not even a towntell.
In fact, it's a very very very very mild scumtell.

Stop trying to declare yourself town because you didn't vote for zwet. It's kind of scummy.

I didn't declare myself town, I was defending myself against people who were calling me out without any reasoning. And explain to me how refusing to vote off townies is a scumtell.

They usually don't want to have anything to do with a townie lynch.

Well, that's obviously not true if the scum vote is needed to get the townie lynched.

[MonkeyMan576]

unvote, vote: Monkeyman

Painfully obvious scum. His last few comments, like "I agree with all you points, and his partner, BSG, could be scum too, so a double scum lynch would be great."

-Bandwagoning
-Miming what KMD said
-Offering no other reasonings, except:

- "BSG could be scum too"
- "Double scum lynch
- "Great"

Translation: "I am scum. I know they both are town. A double mislynch would be great. KMD looks like a town, so I am going to mime him! I wasn't on the town wagon so I MUST be town. LOOK! LOOK! I am town! I am town!"

I would do a better analysis, but I don't really want to waste the time, considering you can all see for yourselfs what his post lacks - substance.

You don't want to "waste time" doing a better analysis, and you accuse me of lacking substance. If you would take the time to read my whole record rather than nitpicking you'd see your vote is a mistake. Agreeing with someone is not a scumtell.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey, what made you switch from voting me to agreeing with me?

Nightfall, TBH, I forgot about all of that. Jebus looked townie with what I looked at, which was the vote itself. The backpedaling was pretty scummy though, and like I said, the lynch wagon was a place to start, not the only thing we should look at.

The Count, do you have a defense?

I thought your analysis made sense.

[MonkeyMan576]

unvote, vote: Monkeyman

Painfully obvious scum. His last few comments, like "I agree with all you points, and his partner, BSG, could be scum too, so a double scum lynch would be great."

-Bandwagoning
-Miming what KMD said
-Offering no other reasonings, except:

- "BSG could be scum too"
- "Double scum lynch
- "Great"

Translation: "I am scum. I know they both are town. A double mislynch would be great. KMD looks like a town, so I am going to mime him! I wasn't on the town wagon so I MUST be town. LOOK! LOOK! I am town! I am town!"

I would do a better analysis, but I don't really want to waste the time, considering you can all see for yourselfs what his post lacks - substance.

You don't want to "waste time" doing a better analysis, and you accuse me of lacking substance. If you would take the time to read my whole record rather than nitpicking you'd see your vote is a mistake. Agreeing with someone is not a scumtell.

I think analysis' in general are a waste of time, at least when I do them.

I have read all your posts...or "record". I am pretty sure it wasn't mistake. You

are

Monkeyman, right? Agreeing with someone isn't a scum tell, but sheeping is. You're a sheep. You offered nothing new. You were jumping on a bandwagon (or what could've emerged as one) after a pretty pro-town looking player started it.

Well, that's a lie. I've advocated lookiing at voting records when a lot of people have spoken out against it. I unvoted on the day 1 lynch when most other people voted for it. So I think you could say the last thing I am is a sheep.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think he's saying you're a sheep in trying to advocate looking at vote counts - but you are when followed Kmd in voting for him.

Yeah well, that doesn't make me scum, unless you think the person I'm voting with is scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Well, that's obviously not true if the scum vote is needed to get the townie lynched.

How do you know this?

Again, not being on a townwagon is mostly a nulltell. Stop acting like it's a towntell.

Well, I disagree. Like I said before. I advocate looking at voting records.

[MonkeyMan576]

I don't think he's saying you're a sheep in trying to advocate looking at vote counts - but you are when followed Kmd in voting for him.

Yeah well, that doesn't make me scum, unless you think the person I'm voting with is scum.

So if a townie makes a case, only town will place the second vote?

Crap logic.

If a townie makes a pro-town case, then scum are less likely to promote it. Scum aren't going to want to see their side lynched. Good logic.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey - surely that only applies if the case made is actually 100%

against scum

? It could be an amazing case, but scum could still jump on it, promote its wisdom, and lynch a townie.

Since we don't know, we can't be sure the alignment of those who jump on.

No, we don't know for sure, but when building a case for someone or against someone, surely you would want to avoid lynchking those who are consistantly voting town and lynch those who are consistantly voting scum, is my thinking.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey - surely that only applies if the case made is actually 100%

against scum

? It could be an amazing case, but scum could still jump on it, promote its wisdom, and lynch a townie.

Since we don't know, we can't be sure the alignment of those who jump on.

No, we don't know for sure, but when building a case for someone or against someone, surely you would want to avoid lynchking those who are consistantly voting town and lynch those who are consistantly voting scum, is my thinking.

Apparently, you've never heard of bussing.

I certainly have heard of it, but you don't want to base a strategy on something that's the exception rather than the rule. More often than not, townies vote town and scum vote scum.

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey - surely that only applies if the case made is actually 100%

against scum

? It could be an amazing case, but scum could still jump on it, promote its wisdom, and lynch a townie.

Since we don't know, we can't be sure the alignment of those who jump on.

No, we don't know for sure, but when building a case for someone or against someone, surely you would want to avoid lynchking those who are consistantly voting town and lynch those who are consistantly voting scum, is my thinking.

Apparently, you've never heard of bussing.

I certainly have heard of it, but you don't want to base a strategy on something that's the exception rather than the rule. More often than not, townies vote town and scum vote scum.

Well, then. Shouldn't we be looking at people

not

on the zwet wagon by your logic?

I meant townies vote pro-town and scum vote pro-scum,

[MonkeyMan576]

Monkey - surely that only applies if the case made is actually 100%

against scum

? It could be an amazing case, but scum could still jump on it, promote its wisdom, and lynch a townie.

Since we don't know, we can't be sure the alignment of those who jump on.

No, we don't know for sure, but when building a case for someone or against someone, surely you would want to avoid lynchking those who are consistantly voting town and lynch those who are consistantly voting scum, is my thinking.

Apparently, you've never heard of bussing.

I certainly have heard of it, but you don't want to base a strategy on something that's the exception rather than the rule. More often than not, townies vote town and scum vote scum.

Well, then. Shouldn't we be looking at people

not

on the zwet wagon by your logic?

I meant townies vote pro-town and scum vote pro-scum,

Townies are uninformed. Therefore they aren't really pro-anybody, because, unless they have special powers that allow them to know the alignment of another player, they don't know anything. So they can vote pro-town, pro-scum, pro-duck.

Scum can vote pro-town too. It's called bussing. Stop playing dumb, scum!

So by your logic we should throw voting records completely out the window, huh?

[MonkeyMan576]

So by your logic we should throw voting records completely out the window, huh?

Yes.

Voting records doesn't clear nor condemn anybody. It has little to do with the vote itself and everything to do with how and when the vote is cast.

Well I disagree with that fundamentally.

[MonkeyMan576]

I need a vote count.

[MonkeyMan576]

Unvote
Vote: DGB

For the reasons stated above.

[MonkeyMan576]

I was right before on my no vote, and I'm sticking my neck out again on voting this time, so I don't get how I keep on getting called scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

I was right before on my no vote, and I'm sticking my neck out again on voting this time, so I don't get how I keep on getting called scummy.

You blindly jump any wagon you see.

I'll definatley jump on a wagon I agree with. It doesn't make me scummy.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yes, let's listen to the lynched scum. Vote KMD!

[MonkeyMan576]

Where's the mod?

[MonkeyMan576]

This game is pretty dead.