Mini 746: Speed Dating - I've Had The Time Of My Life (Over)

[molestargazer]

If we have to confirm, /confirm.

[molestargazer]

Well, shall we get going?

Original Roll String: 1d12

1 12-Sided Dice: (5) = 5

[molestargazer]

Listing "females" as 1-6, and "males" from 7-12...

Vote: The Countess

Your aura of mystery and that name must mean you're scum.

[molestargazer]

Right, I think it would be a good idea to get cracking. We can throw around random votes forever, but Zwet seems to be getting some heat - so let's take a look at what's happened.

I don't even understand who's scum and who's not.

This was brought up by Caboose who said that zwet should know the town win condition if they are Pro-Town. However, I'm not really sure that this is a tell. It took me a few minutes to get my head wrapped round who's scum and who isn't, and what we have to do to win the game.
Also, surely if he was scum, he'd understand that the scum are the married people 'cos he's one of them?

Still, Caboose earns a point in my book for having the first go at scumhunting.

Vote: Zwet

cause we gotta keep the strippers around

May be random, which is fine, but it seems a little odd that zwet already had 2 votes when this happened. Don't really know what to make of this, if indeed there is anything to make.

So that's three votes to Zwet now? Obviously I'm not voting for Zwet today since I'm at her table, although I do think Caboose has a point about the win condition.

This is going to be the very tricky thing about this game - townies will be torn between defending their partner to save themselves, and knowing that they will lose if they are lynched but wanting to help the town anyway.
The bit about the 'Caboose has a point' seems kind of non-committal. EGL, do you think that the win condition point is actually a scumtell, or just a mistake?

[molestargazer]

And molestargazer, your name could be rearranged into molester...

Yep.
Anyone fancy leaving with me tonight?

Yeah, it does. I didn't realise that when I first used it a good 5/6 years ago now. Too late now.

[molestargazer]

So first of, what confuses you about the wincon Zwet?
And I just love ( ), Molestar's defence of Zwet in post 47. Add that you are trying to play both sides of Zwet - Caboose and that you point something out which has no meaning yet, deserves you a

Vote Molestargazer

I think the penguin that controls you might've glitched.

Could you please quote and explain what's scummy about my defence of zwet? I think that someone being confused about their role PM doesn't necessarily mean they're scum.

Why not play both sides? I'm saying I see their points of view, but I don't think it means zwet is scummy yet.

I'm pointing out what I see. No more. I don't see how that's scummy.

[molestargazer]

For now, I'm going to ignore the Win Condition discussion - everything that needs to be said has been said, I wouldn't have been able to add to it. If someone wants me to, I will.

But now onto the main... bit.

You gave him a way out. By saying who the scum are and by saying that you were confused as well, before Zwet could respond to Caboose ('Eh???' does not count). It's allowed to defence, but do so after said player has responded, besides 'Eh???'. Besides, the mod has said that there could be more parties in this game, so the defence of yours doesn't have to be the case.

I understand your point - and indeed I'll be learning from this and allowing people to present their own defence before I butt in in future - but I was simply pointing out a potential flaw in the attacking argument.

Playing both sides:
It is the tone when I read it that bothers me. You don't think it's a scum tell. If this is true, I would expect a fierce tone, but I don't get that from that part. You just state your opinion, and you give the attacker a golden star as he's having the first go at scumhunting...

I try not to play fiercely. I don't condemn / attack people unnecessarily. I'll state a problem, and allow them to respond.
As for the 'gold star', I don't see the problem. The game needed to move on and people needed to start scumhunting, I was just acknowledging that.

Pointing out:
You've got my point. You point something out, and that's it. You point something out, which might not even be relevant.

Guilty.

However...

This gives the impression that you actually do something, while actually doing nothing. And that's scummy. What you pointed out, is just filling.

There's no evidence I can give for this, but I can assure that that was not my intention when filling. I was just typing out what I saw, and thought might be worth a mention at the time.

I have negative clue.

Don't get this. Could you explain?

[molestargazer]

Right. A lot of random babble has gone on with the mod since I last posted, so I'm going to have a go at sifting through the chatter and see if there's anything in there worth a mention.
I'll start from the top of Page 4.

At the time I felt it may have been somewhat of a scumtell. After reading other points people put forward, such as he'd be able to tell who the scum is if he was one of them, it could either be just a mistake or a neutral tell in the worst scenario. Of course, the game made even said analyzing win conditions wouldn't help, so honestly I think that theory should be thrown out the window.

That's fair enough.

I'm feeling right now like Caboose and a few others are trying to manipulate the situation with Zwet,

Could you please give us some examples of where that's happened?

Caboose is definitely twisting my words, that's for sure.

See above.
This post seems very much like zwet is just jumping on the good idea and using it to make Caboose look scummy. I can't vote without evidence.

FoS: zwet

Oh, and Vote Jebus

Not random.

OK. Why?

As long as nobody finds out what's happening, I will have my daily dose of penguin love

Are you claiming scum?

What?

I think he's claiming penguin fetish.

Vote: Jebus Not random.

Woah!
Now either this is a joke copy of the above vote, they both share the reason for voting, or they're collaborating as scum. Since we don't know the reasonings, I'll have to assume the third one. Please explain your votes, both of you.

but for the scum hunting on page 5 being voting people who haven't actually posted just screams laziness.

So do something about it - put some pressure on, ask them for their reasonings. Is that not what this is all about?

Show me where I did this.

Unvote
Vote: The Countess

Second vote on Jebus looks opportunistic.

Pretty much summarising this post. I don't see a problem with that vote right now.

unvote, Vote: Caboose
Second vote on The Countess looks opportunistic.

You have got to be kidding me. Since we're a long way from lynch yet, and I want to put some pressure on..

Unvote

Vote: The Countess

Please explain:
- The reasonings for your vote on Jebus, with examples.
- Why you decided to OMGUS Caboose.
Just having a mysterious name doesn't make you invulnerable. You're looking incredibly scummy right now.

In case you missed it, I'd like Kmd to explain his vote on Jebus also.

[molestargazer]

Point taken. But would it not be better to...

Mod: Requesting a prod on Jebus.

Molestargazer, it seems like you don't really understand who I am. I am royalty. I expect you afford me the worship I deserve. My votes need not be questioned, nor am I to be voted for.

Sorry, your majesty, but it's not going to work like that. Since you're here, in this speed-dating place, I'll be treating you like every other player / romance-seeker.

I did that this morning, currently not read but I have no idea where in the world Jebus lives

[molestargazer]

Can't we wait to lynch Zwet until Zwet is at a table with another married person though? Or at least at a table with someone who doesn't have a PhD?

I don't like this argument.
We have to lynch scum. Which means that we have to lynch whoever is at the scum's table.
Any one of us could come up with an argument like yours (even scum) as to why they shouldn't be lynched -

I always win as town, trust me

, or

I have a Psychology degree

, whatever. In my opinion, that is completely irrelevant. It smacks as an attempt to save your own life, and ignoring the main issue here - lynching someone who could very well be scum, and helping the town (Or in this case, the honest single people looking for a date!).

Now, the 'mrs' thing is a very difficult situation. It could be an honest mistake, as zwet has claimed. Or it could be a scum slip-up. Whilst this means I don't think we should lynch based on this evidence alone, it does go a way towards it.
Sometime when I have time, I'll try and do a post-by-post of Zwet's play so far and see what comes up.

[molestargazer]

Also, your argument about lynching whomever is at the scum's table fails in cases of pro-town power roles.

True.
You're saying you have a pro-town powerrole?

Sorry but not arguing against having yourself lynched in the process goes against your win condition no matter who you are, you know?

True. But we have to lynch people some time. We have to make sacrifices to win this game - I think it's incredibly unlikely that we'll lynch perfectly when both scum are at the same table, and IMO it would be foolish to try.
If I think someone's scum, I'll try and get them lynched.

*facepalm*
mole...

Can you at least see where I'm coming from?
Call me an idiot if you like, I'm sure it's going to come eventually, we may as well get it over with.

[molestargazer]

Care to fill me in?

[molestargazer]

*Facepalm*
Yeah, I really did fail there.

If this is true, then the Zwet lynch should be halted. I do worry that not lynching today will let zwet slip off the hook - but then, I suppose that's what this game is all about.
So now we're faced with the difficult situation of turning our attention to the 'second scummiest' person. I suppose when I carry out that re-read I should be looking for that.

[molestargazer]

Well, that's a very strange turn of events. Could be potentially useful.
Will post more when I have time.

[molestargazer]

So what does Kmd's attempt at a hammer tell us about his alignment? Unfortunately for me, I'm seeing both sides.
1. It could have been the attempt of a townie to hammer someone he thought was scum without giving them the pass to move on to Day 2, where he may be forgotten or overlooked in finding more scum.

OR

2. It could have been the attempt of a scum to hammer a townie with 'legitimate reasons' for doing so, thus ending the day and removing all of our allotted time for discussion.

If it weren't for zwet's slip which certainly puts him on the track for being scum, I'd be saying #2. But right now, I'd say it's the first. But, obviously, so secure this, we have to think about zwet's alignment.

So now we're back in the position of whether or not to give Zwet a push out of the door for his slip, or to leave him until tomorrow where he may be coupled with a less powerful pro-town role, if EGL's claim is to be believed.

This leads us to his 'bah' post in 'twilight'.

Wow. You all are idiots. I wasn't scum. I made an honest mistake about my prefix, and you lynch me. Sheesh. I hope EGL was unmarried, so I can satisfy my win condition of leaving with an unmarried person. KMD is screaming scum. Go town!

Now, (no offense meant here) but the impression that I've been getting of zwet so far this game is that he's a little slow when it comes to keeping up with things:

don't even understand who's scum and who's not.

(Note he caught flak for this post too)

Actually, the win conditions confuse me.

This is hurting my head...

Backing off before the pressure starts, eh?

(Here it was fairly obvious, and had been confirmed by Kmd and myself in posts 119 and 120, that the Jebus votes were due to inactivity, therefore if he returns, the votes would be lifted)
This would fit with his slip-up of Mrs, and would lead me to believe that if Kmd said that he had hammered Zwet, zwet would go right ahead and post a bah post without even double-checking whether or not he was lynched - which leads me to think that Zwet is actually pro-town, and the 'twilight' post was genuine.

Therefore, I would lean towards Kmd being scum right now (See #2 at the top of this post), despite some of zwet's less-than-pro-town behaviour that we've seen so far.

Unvote: The Countess
Vote: Kmd4390

[molestargazer]

Still liking my Zwet vote.
Also, Mole is starting to get my attention again. Especially after his 'I think W is town, therefore I think Y is scum' comment.

I can't be 100% sure of either of those, of course.
But I'm farily sure that Zwet is town, therefore I think that Kmd's action action means he is more likely to be scum, in my eyes.

[molestargazer]

Your basing your assumption of KMD on a post Zwet made in twilight. I don't know about you, but my twilight posts are always pro-town, in case of mayor's, reviver's, or mistakes. There is also the fact that lynching someone in this case is a justifiable hammer, though not neccesarily a smart one. Granted, my suspicions of zwet have gone down, but my suspicions of KMD have not really changed.

If I know I've been lynched, or I'm dead, my twilight posts will generally be neutral, or pro-faction in a way that would not endanger my team (In the case of scum). I can't remember what I've done in the past, but that's what I think I'd be doing. Granted, each to their own.

justifiable hammer, though not neccesarily a smart one.

Precisely. My point is that scum could get away with that hammer which could have cost the town.

Dropping the hammer vote is

NOT

a scumtell.

FoS: mole

for acting like it is

I disagree. That hammer vote ends the day early, which gives us less time for discussion, therefore less time to find the scum. We (Or at least, I) were by no means certain of zwet's alignment, AND dropping the hammer vote, in all likelyhood, would kill our doctor.
Not all hammers are scumtells. I think this one is.

If anything, I would expect scum to jump on the wagon early in order to leave the hammering to town.

If scum were able to get away with it - here, I think they would, because of the slip being a 'legit reason' - I think they would, for the reasons above.

[molestargazer]

In an attempt to get this game moving again, I'll make a quick post.
I will admit that some of zwet's more recent posts have almost made me regret defending him. However, I stand by my point that I think his twilight post was genuine, and I believe he is town. Whilst this doesn't confirm that Kmd's hammer was a scummy one, I think it's quite likely.

What does everyone else think about this? We need to talk again.

[molestargazer]

I think it's random. Might be wrong.

[molestargazer]

Ah, OK. Let's find out.

Mod: Which way do we move?

[molestargazer]

-Backwards writing-

Translated...

It's not great, but it's more than you can pull up for a "reasons Zwet is town" case.
- Claimed jester. Pointless...
- Admitted to being scum by nameclaiming a married prefix.
- Adds next to nothing to the game. (Read his post history. Seriously.)
- Claimed to not understand the game.
- Posts useless one-liners.

I'll post my thoughts on this in a minute.

[molestargazer]

How odd.

Anyway.

It's not great, but it's more than you can pull up for a "reasons Zwet is town" case.

This is true. My gut tells me that zwet is town, but he really hasn't been acting like it.

- Claimed jester. Pointless...
- Posts useless one-liners.

I believe the Jester claim could just been one of those one-liners. But yes, either way, useless, and it isn't behaviour I'd describe as pro-town.

- Admitted to being scum by nameclaiming a married prefix.

This boils down to either it being a mistake or it not, and I'd say the first option. However, I do see why people would disagree with me.

- Claimed to not understand the game.

It is possible to be confused by the game, and indeed it is a tricky setup. I'm still of the opinion that he's just a bit slow with this kind of thing.

- Adds next to nothing to the game. (Read his post history. Seriously.)

Yeah.

What can I say?
The case against Zwet is fairly strong, especially for Day 1. As I said earlier, my gut feeling is that he's pro-town, but yet there's barely any evidence to back that up - and certainly nothing as solid as the evidence against him. This puts me in quite a difficult situation.
I won't be voting for him - yet - and my vote on Kmd stands for now, with a lack of anyone else who's caught my eye as looking scummy.

[molestargazer]

Kmd - Do you think that zwet is a worthwhile lynch for today, and do you honestly think he is scummy enough to risk lynching our doc to do so today?

[molestargazer]

Mole, do you think that EGL is the doc. And if so why?

I can't be certain, but I'm leaning towards the claim being genuine.

I would've said otherwise had the claim been unnecessary - but since Zwet was at L-2, and would almost certainly had gained more votes from the "Mrs." saga, I think that if I were him I would've claimed at the same time as well - and doing so certainly halted the lynch which could have ended our D1 prematurely and possibly killed our doc.

The lack of a counter-claim also leads me to think it's genuine. If a real doc had counter-claimed, he certainly may have been NKed, but we would have lynched a scum member in the process. Since the doc would (Probably - not sure how nights work) not have left with someone married, then he wouldn't automatically lose - and if we won, then so would he. So I think that'd be a worthwhile trade-off.

Of course, we can't discount the idea that it could be a scum ruse - but for now, I don't think it's worth the risk lynching him.

[molestargazer]

Why have you only revealed this now?

[molestargazer]

Is asking why you're not going to say any more yield any information, or is this a situation of trying to draw blood from a stone?

[molestargazer]

I've had a thought niggling away at me for a while. This might be complete crap, if it is, someone please correct me.

What if there ARE no nightkills?

Max has told us that after a day, there will be a party stage, an equivalent of a night. Except we are still active and can talk. This implies that our characters and awake and know what we're doing, hence scum wouldn't be able to 'kill' us, or make us leave, whatever.
If there is a nightkill, that means one person is left on his own on his table the next day. Considering this is speed dating, it doesn't seem to make sense.

Thoughts?

[molestargazer]

Zwet. In the back of my mind, I still doubt you're scum, but every time you post, I feel more and more as though it's worth lynching you:
a) To find out about EGL, and perhaps confirm what Kmd has said (Or otherwise)
b) So the we can be rid of you and we can move on with finding (more) scum.
c) Hell, you might actually BE scum.

Not very many cops I know have PhDs. I also don't know of many stripers with PhDs, either.

With your evident experience with strippers, I'll have to agree with that one.
It is possible for cops to have PhDs. Y'know, perhaps in criminology or something. But the obvious answer is Doc, and I think that's the most likely role EGL was claiming.

Just to let you know, I personally do know a cop and a stripper with PH:D's, but I hang with crazy uni students, so I don't think that's valid

Unvote: Kmd

I'm starting to feel less and less like you're scum.

Zwet - I'm on the verge of dropping the hammer. Any particular reason why I shouldn't? Please explain the reason if you're going to make one, properly. If not, I think a final post is in order - who do you think's scum if you turn up pro-town?

[molestargazer]

I still prefer Zwet as lynch, but I would like to hear first from EGL's replacement. He 'claimed' a powerrole, and should have his chance to defend himself. His death could have some influence how the game will end.

I'd be happy for this to happen. We can't wait around forever for a replacement, but if there's one in the pipeline, I'd be happy for him (or her) to give their input.

As for Mole, his reasons for voting Zwet are troubling me. He wants to see, through a lynch, who of EGL and KMD is telling the truth. He's just trusting one player who says he has info that EGL can't be a doc based upon his role PM. This faith in KMD, strikes me as odd.

Any particular reason why it strikes you as odd? Zwet I'm happy to lynch. EGL's claim can't be trusted any more Kmd's. Through lynching EGL, we can find if he was telling the truth or not.
- If he was, it's a doc, we put our suspicion onto Kmd, who gives us the info - or is scum. Either way, we get more information.
- If he isn't the doc, chances are he's scum. That's good.

Also, his second reason for voting Zwet sounds like a policy reason. I find policy reasons suspicious.

I assure you that isn't the case.
As much as I would like to believe Zwet is town, I think we would do much better with him out the way so we can put our suspicions and attention onto others. Not to mention the fact that he might just be scum anyway.
I made that decision based on this game alone - no polices.

[molestargazer]

I thought your reason for doubting the doc idea was down to your role, Kmd?

[molestargazer]

I noticed earlier in the party, Caboose still claimed that Jebus was scum. Could you give us a case against him?

Personally, I don't think Kmd is scum now. He's contributed a lot, and the few incidents I thought may be scummy have now been explained or are negligable. Roffman, could you explain why he was 2nd on your list? You may have posted it before, but just to refresh my memory and have everything in one place.

[molestargazer]

I don't see how it would have hurt to ask EGL to confirm his role with the mod

EGL was inactive, and being replaced. Yes, we could have waited around - but with deadline steadily approaching, and the inevitable delay to the lynch that a replacement would bring, I'm not too bothered about that.

especially since you/KMD already made it clear that you didn't think he was what he was claiming to be.

I don't remember saying that I believed fully that EGL's doc claim was false. In fact, I believe I said it could swing either way.

Caboose - your case against Jebus is quite a good one. The table thing is a bit of a ballache in this case, but for now, let's wait and see what he has to say in his defence.

Caboose, Although I agree with almost all of your post, I don't think that we can say for certain regarding the first point that Jebus "knew" Zwets would turn out to be town.

If he were scum, then he would know. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what Caboose was getting at.

[molestargazer]

I am not scum. You should be looking at the people who were in on the double townie lynch yesterday.

Are you suggesting that people who weren't on the wagon should be discounted? Sounds like it, and that's not on.

This game is way too easy. Caboose and Monkey are the scum so can we wait with lynching them until they are paired together?

Yeah, sure, I'll follow your lead without any evidence or suspcisions posted whatsoever!

(If you needed to read this to realise that was sarcasm... *sigh*)

chainsaw defense

Could you please explain what this is? Can't find it on the wiki.

So, I'll try to cross out what I really mean to make it seem a bit nicer.

Fixed.

Thought - because Zwet and EGL left without a married person in the group, haven't they succeeded in their win condition? Or am I reading it wrong?

They will win only if all the married people leave the game now, I guess. Might be wrong (As I have been before).

By the way, I'm a priest. Does this help quell your already weak case?

I hope you're not trying to do what EGL did. Chances are priest is just flavour, and if it isn't, I don't see why you would claim like that now.

Alas, the Caboose is the scum! I stand beside you, BSG, 100%. I understand completely.

vote: Caboose

Is there something in yours and the countess' role PM that says you should never explain anything or something?

This post just annoys me. He is trying to get a potential scum lynched, however, he won't post any actual reasons for it. He has admitted his role is just for flavor, yet he denied to tell us this yesterday when the knowledge might have actually stopped us lynching a potential doc.

If he had come out with the information, then I think we would have assumed EGL's was flavour - but still lynched zwet for being scummy anyway. So... yes and no.

I also know the mod said that analysing win conditions is pointless, but I still find it interesting

The mod says it's pointless, which means it is, which means it shouldn't form part of a case against someone. So I'm going to discount that. Same to what Monkey said.

[molestargazer]

I'm saying that people on the wagon should be considered first, and that people off the wagon should be given the benefit of the doubt

I think people who are scummy should be considered first. Voting patters could be used against them, yes, but I don't think it should be used as a basis of finding scum.

especially when accusers give no reasoning for their accusations.

This bit I agree with.

And even if EGL was a doc, he'd have been dead that night anyway.

At the time of your attempted hammer, had it been established that there were no NKs?

You were obviously wrong about KMD being scum, so why should we believe you about you being town?

People can make mistakes. Zwet was a good D1 lynch, IMO.

Voting for two townies, and from what i understand, you hammered

He attempted to hammer, but didn't get the hammer vote. As it was said, caboose later hammered.

It wasn't well reasoned enough for me to be on board, so I'm not letting him off the hook.

Because everyone in the game has to agree with a lynch before it goes through. Just because you didn't think it was reasoned enough, doesn't mean that the majority didn't either.

No problem, I suggest we start looking at those who were in on the vote, especially towards the end, and those who might be behaving suspiciously(ie defending the vote).

I don't like how you're pushing this so hard. The wagon against zwet was reasonable. Scum could just as easily have been off the wagon than on. We should look at what people say, and

perhaps

take voting patterns into account, not the other way round.

Vote: MonkeyMan

- I think that your way of looking could easily let scum off the hook and kill townies who were on the zwet wagon.
- You think your lack of voting for zwet means we should all assume you're town. No.

[molestargazer]

You don't think even one scum took the opportunity to push a double mislynch Day 1?

I think it's very possible one might have done, but not certain - and I don't think they all will have done, even if one does.
It's very possible that one or more scum tried to make themselves appear pro-town by not following a lynch they know will turn out townie.
I don't think we should focus our efforts on a select group, but rather look at everyone.

[molestargazer]

I don't think he's saying you're a sheep in trying to advocate looking at vote counts - but you are when followed Kmd in voting for him.

[molestargazer]

Monkey - surely that only applies if the case made is actually 100%

against scum

? It could be an amazing case, but scum could still jump on it, promote its wisdom, and lynch a townie.

Since we don't know, we can't be sure the alignment of those who jump on.

[molestargazer]

NOT POSTED SINCE MARCH 9

The Countess
jebus
BSG

MOD:
1. Happy birthday!
2. Can we get prods on the above?

[molestargazer]

Sorry, prod recieved. I forgot about this game, though I'm still confused on what's going on in this game :/

What confuses you about it?

[molestargazer]

I would assume the why and who come under 'how' the vote is cast.

[molestargazer]

I think DGB's post was a balls-up.
You've not missed a great deal, activity's through the floor right now.

[molestargazer]

We're on page 18? Can someone point me to zwet's fakeclaim?

This the one you're talking about?

[molestargazer]

Also, DGB - any more reasons for voting Kmd, or are you just following roffman's train of thought?

[molestargazer]

Oh, OK.
Well, I won't complain, this game needs the shot in the arm.

[molestargazer]

I am voting. I could've sworn I was voting for Monkeyman.

[molestargazer]

DGB - Yes, I am voting. post 388.
And I won't vote for Kmd as I think he's pro-town, and I think Monkey is more likely to be scum.

Jebus - You don't have the liberty of voting 'til you've read through, so, why?

[molestargazer]

DGB - Are you completely serious about this claim? It's certainly increasing activity, but we need more than that now, we need to find scum.

[molestargazer]

Just making sure it wasn't for activity purposes or something else like that. Now we can look at this in a bit more depth.

[molestargazer]

unvote, vote: KMD

Why?

I'm a nightkill-immune cop. So let's kill kmd and get it over with. I'll investigate a player every night and since the scum can't kill me, the game is in the bag for the town.

No.
Mafia can't kill at night anyway. We've already established this.

I know it sounds too good to be true, but I have to admit to a major drawback. I'm a miller, too.

From the outlandish to the ridiculous.

I got an innocent on The Count Night 1, and no result Night 2.

Uh.. we haven't had a N2?

Totally serious.

OK, in that case...

Unvote
Vote: DGB

Your 'claim' is ridiculous. It was unnecessary at the time, it's blatantly a lie, and I think you're scum.

I got an innocent on The Count

Possible partner, especially since The Count followed DGB's vote on Kmd.

[molestargazer]

The 'no result' was on Caboose, that's why I'm certain Caboose is the mafia roleblocker. It's a powerful scum role, we have to kill her today.

Surely whoever you investigated, if you were roleblocked it would give no result anyway? Therefore this shows nothing about caboose?

And Monkey is just a scummy wagon jumper who wants to kill the doctor.

Well... not how I'd put it. But yes, I've made a case before against Monkey and I still stick to it - but I think you're more likely scum right now.

[molestargazer]

DGB - I'm voting for you. You say that when you're lynched and turn up town, everyone voting for you is scum. But you say I'm town.

Could you please confirm which?

[molestargazer]

I don't KNOW who is scum and who is town

That isn't an excuse for posting something that doesn't make sense. You can't call me scum for pointing out a flaw in your argument.

[molestargazer]

No, but, there actually is a query I'd like you to answer. (Post 502)

[molestargazer]

Yes.
You're not a cop. I want to see what you really think.

[molestargazer]

If that scummy exists, I give my word I'll nominate you for it.

Please, people. Vote DGB.

[molestargazer]

lol.

don_johnson - Yes, DGB's admitting that her claim of cop was fake. This almost certainly means she's scum.

[molestargazer]

No.

[molestargazer]

Please tell me I haven't in some way cocked up again. *sigh*

[molestargazer]

Kmd - Perhaps. But I'd rather not take the chance.

[molestargazer]

Kmd, I think you're overthinking this.

Quirky, maybe, but scummy, never. Unless I spectacularly screw up.

Like the spectacular screw-up we've just witnessed?

As scum, would DGB fakeclaim something ridiculous, get called on it, and say "I give up" any more than she would as town?

Yes.
It's my belief that she was trying to claim that, and use her playstyle to scrape her way through it as a confirmed town.
Note that DGB said herself that it was done without thinking.

Because I find it odd how she seems dead set on us lynching her?

She made a mistake, we caught her out. She's admitting it, there's nothing she could say in her defence.

I'm agreeing with caboose here.
Also, Kmd - DGB is paired with The Count, whom I believe you had a case on earlier? We could always try and test your theories and lynch a scum.

[molestargazer]

Wait- y-you didn't just put my name RIGHT in a quote?!

[molestargazer]

Nightfall's makes a majority?
Should be interesting.

[molestargazer]

I'm getting weird vibes from KMD yesterday. Any rational person would've voted DGB after her claim. I think KMD knew she wasn't going to flip scum.

Vote: KMD

Even if he were scum, how would he know that? DGB was a Jester.

[molestargazer]

Right, I've been neglecting this game.
I'm guessing this is the post everyone is talking about:

DGB you just claimed my role. I'm the Miller NK Immune Cop. I also can kill at any time, so if I were scum, I'd have won by now.

Really though DGB, I'm not scum in this game and you aren't a cop. Have you seen my case on The Count?

I don't see how anyone can take that seriously, or indeed if it makes him scum.

Kmd not voting... I personally don't think it makes him scum - he certainly seemed to take it as a joke.
Note he only switched his vote once he found DGB was paired with the count, and if he were scum, he'd know he wouldn't flip scum either?

[molestargazer]

Prod received. It's time for a re-read, really.
One day soon, when I have the motivation, I'll do a little reading.

[molestargazer]

Now we really need to do this re-read, and to stop myself from putting if off any longer, I'll do it now.
Let's go from maybe Page 22, although a lot of this will be hampered by DGB.

She'll come back and say, "X voted me right away. Y bandwagoned. Z defended. A did this. B did that. The scum are this, this, and that and we need to lynch them now.

Watch.

That's what I'm thinking.
.....
I'm going to vote now too actually.
Vote:DGB
-I'm curious to see what DGB will say
-How caboose will react
-And whether the count will say anything at all.

Seems to be a bit of a contradiction there? Nightfall agreeing with Kmd that she might be scum, but going ahead to vote anyway?
Indeed, this was (I believe) the hammer vote. Strange, don't you think?

Wow... yeah... my Jester post doesn't seem so stupid now does it -_-'

Don't really like this either. Just seems as though he didn't really want to vote, and is now saying 'I told you so' to us.

And.. strangely enough.. that's all I can find of any value in these pages - either that, or I'm not reading properly.
So, for now,

Vote: Nightfall

[molestargazer]

@molestar: Why didn’t you see roff’s theory? Did you read any of his post 268 before you made post 280?

Read the sodding avatar.
And I evidently didn't read the post properly, or I just missed it. It's not the first time I've done things like that. I can't say any more than that.

You don’t mention any specifics, which could have allowed you to back away from points that don’t hold strong or hang on points that did. What about his case did you like?

I have absolutely no idea, I've slept since then. Let's reread.
Judging from what I see, I agreed with his thoughts of backing away from the lynch shortly after he made a post summarising the case and putting pressure on.

[molestargazer]

...
A quick read of your case on Monkey turns up no obvious flaws.

Well.
Let's see where this goes.

Vote: Monkey

[molestargazer]

Wait, my apologies, I didn't realise this game was still active and going.
I'm fine with a massclaim if you want to go for it.

[molestargazer]

V/LA until saturday due to exams. Hopefully The Countess will have claimed by then, and I can take my turn.

[molestargazer]

Right, all exams but one over.
Here we go.

I am MISS WRIGHT. Twice in the game, I can quote someone's message to the mod and he will tell me if they are lying or not.

I've used my power once, to check DGB's claim - which, despite being ridiculous, was just to make sure. Of course, that turned out to be a kick in the teeth.

I'm a nightkill-immune cop. So let's kill kmd and get it over with. I'll investigate a player every night and since the scum can't kill me, the game is in the bag for the town.

The mod returned a lie.

[molestargazer]

So your a flavor cop. What's the gist of your role PM's flavor? Like, why would Miss Wright be able to know this?

You might as well use the second investigation now to see if someone is telling the truth about their win condition.

Miss W

right

. Nothing else other than the fact that my flavour-character always knows if someone's lying, but it tires me out so I can only do it twice.

And that was my thoughts exactly - but I thought we could try and discuss who first so we can get a good chance of nailing scum, and if not, clear someone who looks scummy so we can focus on others.

[molestargazer]

Look, if you don't believe me, fine.

As long as if, for TODAY, you take my word for it - find someone who you think is scummy, I'll quote their roleclaim and receive lie or not. Kill me then, you'll see I'm telling the truth, I'll have done my part, and you can look at those who wagoned me and exclude the person I've cleared.

[molestargazer]

Mole... What is your win condition(s)?

I win if all the married people leave, and not with me.

[molestargazer]

don - Why is it so convenient?

[molestargazer]

If I'm asking you, then evidently not to me. Please just answer the question.

[molestargazer]

I can't imagine you'd get much of a meta on me. But you can always try.
No matter, I'm telling the truth.

Kmd - how about trying to let me help the town before killing me? At least then when you're proven wrong you can use the information I gathered.

[molestargazer]

Investigate someone's roleclaim and see whether they're lying or not.

[molestargazer]

After a quick re-read, nothing obscenely obvious comes to light about how I should investigate.

I personally would like to investigate Nightfall, for not much more than the case I made on him a coupla pages back and the hop onto the non-believer 'wagon' along with Kmd and Don - however, since he's on my table, that could cause problems - if I find town, I'm sure you guys would just say I was saying that to save my own ass, lynch me, then it's game over.

So, the other 2 tables consist of...

don_johnson is with Jahudo
The Countess is with kmd

Jahudo and Kmd are both fairly pro-town players in my mind. Which brings us to a problem.
We have either Don Johnson or The Countess whom I should investigate. I'd be willing to investigate The Countess's claim/win condition. If she's lying, we lynch. If not, we lynch Don.

Thoughts?

[molestargazer]

I'll send my investigation in later this evening if the plan gets no opposition.

[molestargazer]

I think I'm going to send it on The Countess.

[molestargazer]

Right, I'm running out of time for toninght, so I'll send in the investigation now on this:

Due to our break up, I will not talk to the count. (ie. we would never be paired up)

I win when the married people leave and not with me.

[molestargazer]

Nightfall - See the iPod thread in general discussion.

Oh, bloody hell.
I'm unable to get a result on The Countess. The mod simply returned that I 'tried', but was unable to find anything.
Which leads me to believe that any information about The Count and The Countess is going to be blocked, no matter what we do.

Which also leaves us with the problem of who to lynch.

[molestargazer]

Did you lose your investigation then?

I'd assume so, since it's the trying to do such a thing that 'tires' my character out.
I'll ask the mod anyway, just in case.

[molestargazer]

Mod's confirmed I lost the investigation.

How about this. We wait until Don and Nightfall are at a table together. If they are scum, we'll win. If they aren't, The Countess is probably scum with The Count so the game will continue and we'll lynch The Countess.

I'd be happy with this.
My gut tells me it's The Countess, but this works too if it is.

[molestargazer]

Are the tables changing today?

[molestargazer]

Right here.
I think Kmd's role PM thing was nothing more than a mistake.

Today, I'd be happy to kill don and nightfall - nightfall who I've had suspicions on before, and I think it would be worth it.
Tomorrow we lynch whoever's with the Countess.
Just my plan, I'm definitely not scum, I think it's fairly likely that Jahudo and Kmd are town. So if we do that, then I think we have a fairly high chance of success.

I'd be willing to wait if you guys think it's better, but for now...

Vote: Nightfall

[molestargazer]

I'm still happy with a Don/Nightfall then a Countess/Anyone else lynch. It's practically a sure-fire way of killing off the reamining scum, IMO.

[molestargazer]

I disagree.
I think that with The Count's death, there's only 1 scum left alive. If it isn't either of you two, it's not game over, and we lynch the Countess.
If there IS two scum left alive, we are IMO likely enough to hit a scum with you two to make it worth the risk.

[molestargazer]

Yeah, probably. I don't understand why he would consider a The Count / Nightfall scumpair since they're both dudes.

Didn't notice that.

My plan still stands. If The Count is the scum, it's a female: DJ, myself, or The Countess.
We kill DJ, there's only 1 scum left with 3 town, we kill The Countess, and win.

If The Count wasn't scum, I think it's fairly likely that one of the scum is either DJ or Nightfall.

[molestargazer]

I'm not scum. I think it's very unlikely that Jahudo or Kmd are scum. If I'm right about that, it's a certainty at least one of the two of you are scum.

[molestargazer]

Why am I suddenly appearing more suspicious?

The reason I'm not saying KMD/Countess now is that once we do that, if we don't find scum in that mix, then Don and Nightfall will be split between 2 tables - and they're are certainly more uncertain in my eyes.

[molestargazer]

Making this post to force myself to catch up later this evening. It will be done.

[molestargazer]

OK, so it's the next day, but close enough. Let's start from P34.

If you guys [DJ & Nightfall, I assume] aren't scum together, I'll take a picture of a sock in my mouth and post it in the "Put a Face With a Name" thread.

Just posting this here in case he's wrong. At the moment, I'm cast back into uncertainty.

vote kmd

If Countess is Kmd's table partner, this is quite tempting to finish off if it's still in place.

alright.

Vote KMD

Guessing this is the post that caused the shitstorm. If this was intended to be a hammer.. I wouldn't call it a massively scummy action. I would have been tempted to do the same.
Doing it without any prior discussion, though, I don't like.

The Countess is town.

You seem very sure about this.

it certainly makes sense with a jahudo/mole scumteam.

If I were scum, and Jahudo is, I could have very easily jumped on the wagon and finished the game when J thought he'd hammered - if I'd have voted, it would have been.
I'm not scum. I am who I claimed to be.

As scum I probably would have PM'ed the mod to a vote count first, or at least to ask if I was going to be the hammer.

Seems a bit WIFOMmy.

Even better, what made you change from voting the Don/Nightfall pair to voting me? Don must be your buddy, right?

I think this is just your playstyle, but I don't like how you throw accusations around like that.

I don't like WIFOM games. So /out for these next few posts with Kmd/Jahudo.

I honestly don't know what to think anymore.
Don and Nightfall have been appearing more pro-town in what I've been seeing. Kmd and Jahudo, who I originally thought to be very pro-town, have gone down a few notches. Kmd less so.
Even so, I'm still tempting to go for a Countess / Kmd kill today. I'm still worried that this whole game is an Occam's Razor kinda thing, and I would feel amazingly dumb if Countess was scum at the endgame. Whilst I have to say I'm guilty of this too, I have noticed Countess really not posting much, and when (s)he posts, nothing much comes of it, eg the vote for Kmd without reasoning.

So, for now, I'd be quite content with

Vote: The Countess

Jahudo can wait.

[molestargazer]

Unvote
Vote: The Countess

[molestargazer]

This would be a good point if you'd posted around that time.

Doesn't mean I wasn't watching.

[molestargazer]

That sounds like active lurking. This should be an easy decision for countess and nightfall.

Also sounds like laziness. Sorry.

If it weren't for the fact I'm playing to my win condition, I'd vote Jahudo right now. But since I am, I can't leave with scum, so I won't.

Kmd seems pro-town. The Countess doesn't. Hence I'm voting for her.
If I'm wrong, then I'll try and lynch Jahudo tomorrow.

Kmd - Is your win condition purely if all of the Married people leave, and makes no regard as to who you leave with? I forget.

[molestargazer]

I'm not all that confident in Jahudo's scuminess. As such, I'm willing to take a gamble.

The rest of you alive are pretty confident players, and I'm hoping you guys can root out the final scum so I can win. With us 2 down, it'll be down to 3 townies and 1 scum - and I think those chances are pretty damn good.
I just urge that if we come up town, you listen to what we had to say.

If Jahudo's scum, I'll lose. But... I'm going to die anyway. There's a chance I can still win without having to scrap through the rest of today and end up dying anyway.

I won't hammer now. I'd like to see some reactions to this so you have more to go off when I do.

[molestargazer]

If Jahudo's scum, I'll lose. But... I'm going to die anyway. There's a chance I can still win without having to scrap through the rest of today and end up dying anyway.

Could you rephrase that?


And Mole, if you were to flip town who would you want us to look at in your absence?

My win condition states that if I leave with someone who's scum, I'll lose.

However, I know my claim is in doubt, and I know there's a lot of people who think I'm scum. So if I survive today, the chances of the town hitting scum tomorrow lessen if you go for me.

I'm honestly not sure anymore about who to look at. I'm fairly confident about don_johnson and kmd being pro-town. Less so about the Countess and Nightfall.
Since there's sincere belief in the Countess' pro-townieness (I'm still worried about this whole game being occam's razor), I'll say look at nightfall tomorrow.

So how about it? Lynch Nightfall first DJ (because he can go home with scum)? You have nothing to lose here by doing this.

Doing this, there's still a chance of someone framing myself or you as scum and them walking away. If you're scum, the town win, but I lose. I can live with that.

Is Jahudo at L-1 right now?

[molestargazer]

If you're fine with my lynch, I'm fine with yours. Let's narrow it down.

Who knows, if I'm unlucky, you're scum.

Unvote

(If I'm voting)

Vote: Jahudo

Best of luck town.

[molestargazer]

Aw, shit.

Sorry guys.

Well played to you two.