[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Slicey]

I have no idea how this will work but I just wanna throw it out there.

4 SK's
4 Doc's
1 Cop

SK's come up as guilty scan, Doc's obviously come up innocent. Lynches and NK's are necessary

Just throwing an idea out there.

[Yaw]

That looks swingy as hell. Worst case scenario is that all docs protect SKs, all SKs kill town, and you're down to only SKs after one night. I don't think that can be balanced at all.

[Guardian]

That looks swingy as hell. Worst case scenario is that all docs protect SKs, all SKs kill town, and you're down to only SKs after one night. I don't think that can be balanced at all.

But JDodge swore to me it was balanced...

[Empking's Alt]

Don't Cut The Blue Wire

2 Townies
1 SK
1 Mafiate
1 Bomb
1 One-Shot Bulletproof
Nightkills compulsory

This one should fix pretty much all of the issues of Red Wire while maintaining the basic concept, and in fact improve the basic concept greatly.

TOO SOON.

Nominate

Antinominate

I don't like how the town can win off of the mafiate and the SK killing each other. That doesn't really take any skill on the town's part.
Anything to solve that?

Not normal- No Mafia Group

Don't Cut The Green Wire

2 Mafia

1 Bulletproof SK

1 Townie
1 Infected Bomb - If night killed, kills everyone on that faction.

Town wins happy ever after, save for 1 scum and 1 infected bomb.

[Max]

I think I get what farside meant now (thanks sens) the busdrivers actions take place in order they are received, or it could be set beforehand as a part of the role resolution

X targets Y, Z
Y targets X, Z

Y -> Z -> X (Y is now X)
X -> X -> Z (X is now Z)
Z -> Y -> Y (Z is now Y)

X targets Y, Z
Y targets X, W

Y <-> Z
X <-> W

X targets Z, W
Y targets V, W

Same as first

X targets Y, Z
Y targets W, V

Same as second

X targets Y, Z
Y targets Z, W

Y -> Z -> W
W -> W -> Z
Z -> Y -> W..

[hohum]

Don't Cut The Blue Wire

2 Townies
1 SK
1 Mafiate
1 Bomb
1 One-Shot Bulletproof
Nightkills compulsory

This one should fix pretty much all of the issues of Red Wire while maintaining the basic concept, and in fact improve the basic concept greatly.

TOO SOON.

Nominate

Antinominate

I don't like how the town can win off of the mafiate and the SK killing each other. That doesn't really take any skill on the town's part.
Anything to solve that?

How about this:

Don't Cut The Pink Wire

3 Townies
1 SK
2 Mafia
1 Bomb
1 One-Shot Bulletproof
Nightkills compulsory

[Mr. Flay]

Flay: Why shouldn't I be able to nominate set ups?

You are (probably) an Alt, so you could nominate with one hand and second/third with another.

Even if you aren't an alt, you haven't run a game yet. This Queue is

supposed

to be for untested mods with tested setups. All of the rules for making game setups in Mini Theme apply here in my opinion; you should have run at least one game before designing an Open Setup.

Even if you have run a game on another site, you'd been on MafiaScum.net less than two months when you nominated DCTRW. So your game experience may be very different than our expectations here.

[Mr. Flay]

Lovers has been discussed to death - I've never seen you address the "Town must lynch unanimously two days in a row" problem.

That is probably because it isn't a problem. The town doesn't have to lynch unanimously two days in a row. The mafia goons are lovers, hence the name. The game can only last two days. If scum is lynched on either of those two days the town wins.


Is there a problem I am not seeing?

Right, sorry. what I meant was that you must get a unanimous vote of all townies on Day One of a daystart game, but also on Day Two if you don't miraculously hit scum the first time. Any setup (see: AITP) that benefits from a "lynch as fast as possible at random" is not well-balanced.

F&E&E&TOG is awfully swingy, assuming cross-kills go through. Fire and Ice is only borderline Normal, because of the way cross-kills go through.

I believe that swingy is an acceptable attribute for a game, especially an open game.

Fine; I'm not expecting everyone to find my troubles compelling. But a game where entire teams can be eliminated by D2 through no fault of their own is ugly to me. And that's leaving aside the utter weirdness of a "Backup Mason".

Fire and Ice was originally ok'd by Thesp, and it has been run three (4?) times now. Why the objection to it now? I don't think it would be hard to rewrite the mechanic and role PMs to make it appear more "normal". Is a lack of being "Normal" enough a problem you have with other setups?

As I said before, I don't read this thread all the time, so I looked at Fire & Ice (which was undergoing considerable revision at the time) and figured it was dead in the water. And yes, I've objected several times to how weird the Open Game queue is getting, compared to usual Normals. mith's original post is quite clear on this, but people ignore it regularly.

It's got the 'weirdness' problem of trying to determine what's going on with nightkills. The bodyguard can only protect someone rarely anyway, now they have no way of knowing whether or not they did or the scumgroups crosskilled, making them even more useless. And what happens if F, I, and B all target the same player?

What IS the current process, or is like Title Fairy?

it is like the Title Fairy... isn't it?

I don't know, is it? TF policy is that the TF has final say; they've accepted things with just one suggestion before, they've banned things with four or five people behind them if they're stupid. I'm asking for a little more clarity in the process, and I'd love to have some backstops so that we're not putting all the work on the List Mod.

[Empking's Alt]

I'm an alt. I'm also almost certain that Farside (y'know the actual list mod) knows who I'm an alt of.

Also, there are no rules for making game set ups for mini themes. In fact, I'll make 10 just to spite you.

[Max]

Empking (Which is who he's an alt of... Presumably)

So after a year on the site he probably knows how to mod a game

[ac1983fan]

Empking (Which is who he's an alt of... Presumably)

So after a year on the site he probably knows how to mod a game

Wouldn't it be great if Empking's Alt was somebody else's alt?

[The Fonz]

Nominate:

Jew C9 (New C9, but with no pigs. Or docs).

20 Players of whom:

4 scum
NK-immune SK

15 town, of whom:

0-2 trackers
0-1 Vig
0-1 Watcher
0-1 Nightwatchman
0-1 Bodyguard
0-1 Jailkeeper
0-1 Super Saint

7-15 vanilla townies.

NIGHT START.

Note that the 'watcher' in this setup is what most of you would call a weak tracker, and the nightwatchman is what most people (imho, incorrectly) call a watcher.

[Empking's Alt]

Are the wrong names just to make the description longer?

[PokerFace]

Nah The Fonz just goes by original meanings of those names. Basically he calls a "reporter" a watcher and a watcher a "night watchman"

see here for more details
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Watcher
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Reporter

Night watchman has been seen more commonly than reporter and so it became the more common understanding of watcher. We should probably just rename them both to get things straight at this point.

[The Fonz]

They're not wrong. They're the historically-correct, original terms for the roles. Sometime in the last two years, people started calling nightwatchmen 'watchers' and it spread. But 'watcher' sounds so much better than 'weak tracker' so...

[The Fonz]

When did people start calling that role a reporter, Poker? I've never seen that in a game. If y'all wanted to call them reporter/watcher though, that would be fine by me. Since reporter also sounds better than 'weak tracker.'

[Empking's Alt]

They're not wrong. They're the historically-correct, original terms for the roles. Sometime in the last two years, people started calling nightwatchmen 'watchers' and it spread. But 'watcher' sounds so much better than 'weak tracker' so...

Language changes.

[PokerFace]

Well me and The fonz just got simulposted/edited

What's popular is not always right and vice versa so nobody is indeed wrong though changing names again for all may be the only way to fix things. Make a MD thread about changing both if you want to.

[PokerFace]

When did people start calling that role a reporter, Poker? I've never seen that in a game. If y'all wanted to call them reporter/watcher though, that would be fine by me. Since reporter also sounds better than 'weak tracker.'

I'm not sure when I think there was a thread about calling it a reporter or a photographer. I only recently have seen a few games where a photographer was used like that.

will edit a game links here shortly

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 72#1363572

PS. stop the simul posting!

[The Fonz]

To be honest, you could call them 'dominatrix' and 'kitten' so long as it's clear what the role does, which was the point of the disclaimer at the bottom.

Ed: Anyone care to comment on, y'know, the actual setup?

[PokerFace]

True you could call them that or anything just to be funny if mechanics are still understood

And I think the setup is a good idea since cops and docs are too over used. And those other roles should be used more in their place. Might need a better name than Jew C9 though

[Empking's Alt]

Too big - Too random

Magic Supersaint

2 Mafia - No Kill - Can turn people into supersaints.

6 Townies (number not set in stone.)

[The Fonz]

Not normal.

Oh, and Jew C9 isn't any bigger, or more random, than the original 'New c9' which got passed.

[Empking's Alt]

I'm not a fan of that either.

[The Fonz]

Fair enough. I like it a lot, though i think it's a little too strongly town favouring (the only scum win ever was my best ever performance as scum) and the mods don't seem to randomise properly (town has gotten more power than you'd expect at random in every single game).