Mini 749 - Antarctic Mafia [Game Over]


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:08 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

Nuwen wrote:Also,

Hi pacman.
I'm not seeing the point of this post.
Would you like to point it out ?


I wrote you 365 letters. I wrote you everyday for a year. It wasn't over, it still isn't over!

Fishythefish - 1 (pacman281292)
Debonair Danny DiPietro - 4 (DraketheFake, freeko, JereIC, Fishythefish)
Light-kun - 1 (na85)
freeko - 3 (Debonair Danny DiPietro, HowardRoark, Light-kun)
pacman281292 - 2 (ZEEnon, Amished)

Not Voting - 1 (Nuwen)

12 alive, 7 to lynch.

-Mod

(Vote Count accurate as of Post 250)
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:17 pm

Post by Nuwen »

It's the same as this earlier post.
Nuwen wrote:And speaking of focus, hi Mizz.Mafia.
More than anything, it's a note that Pacman hasn't responded to the brunt of posts in his direction.

p.s., thanks to our mod for the extremely quick and active vote updates
. I quoted ZEEnon's post less than ten minutes after he submitted it, and already found a votecount edited in.
So high, so low, so many things to know.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:32 pm

Post by Nuwen »

Debonair Danny DiPietro wrote: Furthermore, if someone else is lynched and it is still a mislynch isn't there a distinct possibility it could still be scum-driven or likely having scum contribute significantly?
That's my point - I'm wondering why you believe your mislynch would hurt the town more than another mislynch. One scum-powered wagon is equal to another scum-powered wagon.
ZEEnon wrote:
Nuwen wrote:I don't. However, DDD has said,

1. "I win with the town."
2. "Mislynches can be beneficial."
3. "I am the incorrect lynch today."

These statements add up to any of the following:

1. A false (vanilla?) town claim made by scum.
2. A true (vanilla?) claim, made by someone more interested in remaining alive than providing the town with a scum-powered wagon to pick apart on day 2.
Or perhaps 3. A true claim made by someone that could very well be innocent
and wants to prove that while alive instead of helping find scum while he is dead.
Oye you, read more betterer. Your option 3 is identical to my option 2 - a town player that believes he's worth more alive than dead with a scum wagon behind him.
ZEEnon wrote: Unless the scum part is true, none of the other things are detrimental to the town. Therefore, the fact that you want to take the chance on lynching him to help 'find scum' is extremely suspicious.
You don't think a survivor complex can make a player act in his or her best interests, rather than the entire town's best interest?

Have I once suggested that DDD be lynched, or voted/FOS'd him? I find it odd that you assume I'm building up to a strategy lynch.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 12:25 am

Post by Fishythefish »

I disagree with the recent criticism of DDD for wanting to survive. Sure, a lynch of a townie can be beneficial, but this rare, rarer if planned, and there is no obvious reason this one is. If DDD is a townie, at this stage he should prefer anyone else to die other than him, since anyone else could be scum. My lynch would be my least favourite today- can anyone honestly say different? (
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:42 am

Post by freeko »

light wrote: Hm... You still lie, you still say he did zero scum hunting. I see some.
Well, I certainly dont see it. Maybe you could point it out to me because every time I isolate his posts, there is nothing that shows effort towards scumhunting.

Noted that you are flying in to defend someone else. This could be a scumbuddy trying to help push the suspicion away. What other reason do you have for attacking me out of the blue? This will be worth nothing now for reeference later in the game.

Here is another little nugget. Why are you voting for me again? You already had your vote on me before post 244. I could speculate 10 ways to sunday on why you are doing that. Saving a scumbuddy seems to be the only one that makes any sense to me.
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 4:45 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Fishythefish wrote:I disagree with the recent criticism of DDD for wanting to survive. Sure, a lynch of a townie can be beneficial, but this rare, rarer if planned, and there is no obvious reason this one is.
If DDD is a townie, at this stage he should prefer anyone else to die other than him, since anyone else could be scum.
My lynch would be my least favourite today- can anyone honestly say different? (
sets a cunning trap for jesters!
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This is correct and this is the logic I tried to present in semi-numerical form earlier.
(And now someone can accuse me of buddying with Fishy, this is a fun game.)
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:39 pm

Post by Light-kun »

freeko wrote:
light wrote: Hm... You still lie, you still say he did zero scum hunting. I see some.
Well, I certainly dont see it. Maybe you could point it out to me because every time I isolate his posts, there is nothing that shows effort towards scumhunting.

Noted that you are flying in to defend someone else. This could be a scumbuddy trying to help push the suspicion away. What other reason do you have for attacking me out of the blue? This will be worth nothing now for reeference later in the game.

Here is another little nugget. Why are you voting for me again? You already had your vote on me before post 244. I could speculate 10 ways to sunday on why you are doing that. Saving a scumbuddy seems to be the only one that makes any sense to me.
No, I'm not getting a scum read from Monseigneur Debonair, but I do get a whiff of third party with the option two presented by ZEEnon earlier. However, you are my attack target from a small while ago, thus I think that I am not defending him as much as I am attacking you. So, this looks like slight misrepresentation, though this is far lessened since you, as a town aligning, could conceivably reach the same conclusion. I still see you as scummiest player in the game at the moment, so my vote stands.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:06 pm

Post by HowardRoark »

freeko (233) wrote:
howard wrote:freeko (122) wrote:
you are quantifying your play thru Drake as being town because it is apparently terrible. I can agree that it is terrible.
Meanwhile they are both on the Debonair Danny DiPietro BW.
At least this is totally out of context. This was aimed at DDD not drake. Pay attention numbunts. Way to just jump on, and for a messed up reason no less
Perhaps I should have separated my last sentence with a new line. Your grouping in that partial quote is a misrepresentation. Please see that the sentence above that quote should be paired with said quote.

I would love to hear more from pacman281292, na85, and Amished. So far, I do not have a real feel for them and who they believe are scum.
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 2:29 pm

Post by na85 »

Sorry for my absence. Family member was in a car accident in Kentucky so I had to drive down and pick them up. (I'm from Canada... was quite the drive).

I'll try to get caught up soon.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:35 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

freeko wrote:
light wrote: Hm... You still lie, you still say he did zero scum hunting. I see some.
Well, I certainly dont see it. Maybe you could point it out to me because every time I isolate his posts, there is nothing that shows effort towards scumhunting.
DDD @ 225 wrote:1. He initially come after me on the contents of a joke post and claims of buddying based on a single post. Terrible arguments that I refuted.
2. He's ignored and invaded every counterpoint I've made and every argument I've made against him.
3. He's completely tunneled on me, while others like Drake and LK, have found time to at least analyze the actions of others, freeko only has eyes for me.
4. Now he's back and calling for my lynch again with nothing but appeals to emotion and riding the backs of everyone else who has done actual analysis on my posts.

So we've got a player with tunnel vision, who has weak argumentation at best and is riding the coattails of others and who ignores any inconvenient arguments I might make since his mind was seemingly made up from his vote. Yeah, that's a big box of suspicious activity wrapped in one person.
[quote="DDD @ 245]I did get distracted by defending myself and didn't really explain my thoughts on ZEEnon. I've still got him towards the middle-top of my list, but his actions are so confusing and generally poor it's hard to tell if he's scum or just terrible town.

He opened the game by flipping his wig about random votes and nearly gave up under the slightest pressure. He then immediately reversed field and posted a huge block of text with no solid argumentation and basically seemed to OMGUS both Nuwen and Mizz/Roark. He went missing for a while and then his latest post completely misunderstands the point Nuwen was getting at, I think. [/quote]

[quote="DDD @ 247]Not sure, not evidence enough to build a solid case on any of them. I have Drake near the middle-top, he's twisted my words in the past and often seems to focus on trivial parts of my arguments to score points instead of looking at the bigger picture. JereIC is somewhere in the middle, not enough information for me to think I've got a good read either way. I've liked everything I've seen from Fishy other than the vote on me. [/quote]

And that's just the last page, so, yeah, freeko was wrong with this argument before and lately he's been even more wrong. Meanwhile he continues to ignore all posts of mine directed at him. He just keep affirming my arguments against him.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:37 pm

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

EBWOP: To fix quote tags, have to remember I need to preview my posts to make sure those things are correct.
freeko wrote:
light wrote: Hm... You still lie, you still say he did zero scum hunting. I see some.
Well, I certainly dont see it. Maybe you could point it out to me because every time I isolate his posts, there is nothing that shows effort towards scumhunting.
DDD @ 225 wrote:1. He initially come after me on the contents of a joke post and claims of buddying based on a single post. Terrible arguments that I refuted.
2. He's ignored and invaded every counterpoint I've made and every argument I've made against him.
3. He's completely tunneled on me, while others like Drake and LK, have found time to at least analyze the actions of others, freeko only has eyes for me.
4. Now he's back and calling for my lynch again with nothing but appeals to emotion and riding the backs of everyone else who has done actual analysis on my posts.

So we've got a player with tunnel vision, who has weak argumentation at best and is riding the coattails of others and who ignores any inconvenient arguments I might make since his mind was seemingly made up from his vote. Yeah, that's a big box of suspicious activity wrapped in one person.
DDD @ 245 wrote:I did get distracted by defending myself and didn't really explain my thoughts on ZEEnon. I've still got him towards the middle-top of my list, but his actions are so confusing and generally poor it's hard to tell if he's scum or just terrible town.

He opened the game by flipping his wig about random votes and nearly gave up under the slightest pressure. He then immediately reversed field and posted a huge block of text with no solid argumentation and basically seemed to OMGUS both Nuwen and Mizz/Roark. He went missing for a while and then his latest post completely misunderstands the point Nuwen was getting at, I think.
DDD @ 247 wrote:Not sure, not evidence enough to build a solid case on any of them. I have Drake near the middle-top, he's twisted my words in the past and often seems to focus on trivial parts of my arguments to score points instead of looking at the bigger picture. JereIC is somewhere in the middle, not enough information for me to think I've got a good read either way. I've liked everything I've seen from Fishy other than the vote on me.
And that's just the last page, so, yeah, freeko was wrong with this argument before and lately he's been even more wrong. Meanwhile he continues to ignore all posts of mine directed at him. He just keep affirming my arguments against him.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:49 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

Notice: Will catch up on all my games tomorrow .
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 3:06 am

Post by freeko »

You realize the entirety of your post #225 is an OMGUS attack on me right? Thats not scumhunting. You conveniently left out the part of that post where you tell me that I am not deserving of a response anymore. This is as blatant as an OMGUs as you can get, exceopt that you didnt vote for me. Oh, you already did some time ago before that post. (3 days between the vote and this OMGUS for anyone not keeping track) It is also not the first or only OMGUS attack you attempt on me isnt it?

I will at least give you some credit for #245 though. That is actual insight that doesnt have you backpedaling on something you said earlier. Oh wait, you started the post backpedaling. I can give you half credit for making relevant discussion in the second half of the post. Which actually makes my point of you trying to backpedal on yourself constantly that much more apparent. Also shows that you put forth suspicion on someone and do nothing to act on it. Its not the only time this happens.

Not really sure if I can give you credit for #247 though, it adds nothing to the game that I can see. Its like you have these feelings and then dont bother to expand on why you feel that way. If you dont have a read on someone how could they be in the middle? I would think they shoudlnt be on the radar at all, and they should maybe have a few questiuons thrown their way? Again, it looks like you are making an attept to just do enough to deflect some poeple away from you. As to where they go, you dont even make it clear that any of them should even be looked at or any reason for someone who sees that post to look at any of them. It is going towards your pattern of simply trying to namedrop as many other poeple as you can to try to get the mob to shift away from you. Therefore my judgment on this post is that you are floundering.

So for all three of those posts you get half a point for insight. There is no real scumhunting in any of that. Furthermore you display for everyone again your "scumhunting" by pointing out 3 posts that contain an OMGUS attack, backpedalling, and your floundering abilities. That isnt the best way to convince anyone that you are actually scumhunting, you instead show more evidence that you are not scumhunting.

Here is another little nugget for those of you who are not quite convinced yet. Look at his votes so far. A blatant bandwagon hop to L-2 on ZEEnon's wagon, and then a blatant OMGUS vote on me. ( I am ignoring the random vote stage vote on DtF, since it seems to have no implication other than being random.) The OMGUS vote is obvious since he cannot deflect me away as easily as he appears to be deflecting everyone else so far.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 4:34 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

freeko wrote:You realize the entirety of your post #225 is an OMGUS attack on me right? Thats not scumhunting. You conveniently left out the part of that post where you tell me that I am not deserving of a response anymore. This is as blatant as an OMGUs as you can get, exceopt that you didnt vote for me. Oh, you already did some time ago before that post. (3 days between the vote and this OMGUS for anyone not keeping track) It is also not the first or only OMGUS attack you attempt on me isnt it?
OMGUS means the only or primary reason I'm voting you is because you're voting me. This shouldn't be all that persuasive to other people. "I'm voting you because you're voting me" isn't a sound argument. However, if my reasons were so unpersuasive, so nonexistant then why have you picked up two votes since I put them out there and several other members of the town have noted that your behvior is in fact anti-town in the exact fashion I laid out? Because they are credible reasons and not the OMGUS vote you wish it were. So stop trying to evade my arguments by claiming OMGUS and actually refute them if you can.

And why did I chose not to address you? Because if you're not going to engage in debate on a level playing field with me then it's not worth my time to talk with you. If you're going to engage me like this, then I have no problems engaging in a dialogue.

Meanwhile you trot out the same tired lines about me which don't have any merit. You've also failed to note how that even if I am "floundering" how that's a scum tell when there's perfectly reasonable reasons have been presented for a pro-town player to behave in such a manner.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:48 am

Post by freeko »

Im going to rip you apart one last time, becuase you are asking for it yet again. This time I will go sentence by sentence , because you just do not get it dont you?
OMGUS means the only or primary reason I'm voting you is because you're voting me.
Which is your reason for voting on me. I voted you, and your initial response was to try to backtrack and deflect as you do with everyone else that has put suspicion on you so far. That did not work so your next play was to vote for me and try to hide the OMGUS as much as you could, which you failed in doing.
This shouldn't be all that persuasive to other people. "I'm voting you because you're voting me" isn't a sound argument.
Which is exactly what your arguemnt on me is based upon. On the other hand, my argument against you is based upon my logic and reasoning. Your constant backtracking, bad play, wifom defenses, and whatever else you have cooked up so far is more than enough. How many times have you said "I am town" so far and tried to get everyone to believe it? Hell, how many different ways have you tried it as well.
However, if my reasons were so unpersuasive, so nonexistant then why have you picked up two votes since I put them out there and several other members of the town have noted that your behvior is in fact anti-town in the exact fashion I laid out?
Dont give your scumbuddies that much credit. They are hopping in on your defense as it serves them no good whatsoever to see you lynched. Can you really say that they are members of the town? That smells of perfect information syndrome there. I wont go there, though I probalby should just to smash you further into little insignificant maggotbits.
Because they are credible reasons and not the OMGUS vote you wish it were. So stop trying to evade my arguments by claiming OMGUS and actually refute them if you can.
Im certain you have no arguments that are worth refuting. Why should I stoop down to your level and engage your OMGUS attack, your backtracking, or your terrible play (as you yourself quantified it). There is nothing there that needs to be refuted because its all garbage to begin with. You may think that in your perfect little world you somehow made an argument that was valid. Problem is you screwed it up by trying to qualify it somewhere else or backtrack on something else that you said earlier.

Did you not already learn your lesson before when you should not have engaged the person (DtF I think) who took a shot at you with a zinger? Instead you indulged it when there was clearly a more effective play. SUPRISE! Here you go again with more of the same on your end. You have done nothing different so the argument against you is still the same.

Oh wait I am not done yet. Consider that the halftime break.
And why did I chose not to address you? Because if you're not going to engage in debate on a level playing field with me then it's not worth my time to talk with you. If you're going to engage me like this, then I have no problems engaging in a dialogue.
The playing field is sadly for you not very level. I am using logic and reasoning. You are coming out with your OMGUS, WIFOM, backtracking, and lack of scumhunting.
Meanwhile you trot out the same tired lines about me which don't have any merit. You've also failed to note how that even if I am "floundering" how that's a scum tell when there's perfectly reasonable reasons have been presented for a pro-town player to behave in such a manner.
Oh my, there is straw grasping now. Keep trying to qualify your statements more. The problem with this is that my statements are compeltely with merit. You are backtracking. You are most certainly OMGUS voting me. You are always trying to qualify yourself as a pro-town player every chance you get (and you didnt miss this one I see). Though I will give you this, floundering is more of a null-tell
at this point.
Its certainly something that will need to be looked back upon when the context of your play is quantified in some way.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:00 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

Does anyone else find his response as funny as I do?
freeko wrote:[OMGUS]Which is your reason for voting on me. I voted you, and your initial response was to try to backtrack and deflect as you do with everyone else that has put suspicion on you so far. That did not work so your next play was to vote for me and try to hide the OMGUS as much as you could, which you failed in doing.
Bizarre, apparently Post 225 doesn't exist in freeko's world.
freeko wrote:Im certain you have no arguments that are worth refuting.
freeko wrote:Im certain you have no arguments that are worth refuting.
freeko wrote:Im certain you have no arguments that are worth refuting.
Fishy wrote:freeko's last post is unimpressive. He should at the very least acknowledge the arguments made against him in 225, and not doing so adds enormously to the "freeko is ignoring my arguments" statement from DDD. As well as totally ignoring the attack against him, he also says nothing new, but parrots arguments already put forward by other players and himself. This looks particularly bad because one of them- lack of scumhunting- has now been to some extent invalidated. To my mind, this post looks as if freeko decided to post against DDD, then scraped around for some arguments, rather than attacking DDD because he has some arguments against him. This could be motivated either by a desire to be seen to be making arguments (anti-town, as it leads to bad arguments), by tunnel vision on DDD (anti-town) or by a desire for a quick lynch (scummy). Whichever it is, I don't like it.
JereIC wrote:I'm going to review freeko's posts, but you, HowardRoark, and Fishythedelishy have made some good points about him.
LK wrote:I believe his [Danny] last post is scumhunting, thus your [freeko] post is a lie.
And I'm having a tough time understanding Roark's arguments, but with his vote on you, I'd suggest he thinks you gots some explaining to do as well. Five people, chief. That's nearly half the town who think you need to explain yourself and yelling OMGUS really loud isn't doing it.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:00 am

Post by Debonair Danny DiPietro »

EBWOP: I give up, does anyone know if HTML tags work on this forum?
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:44 pm

Post by JereIC »

Post 225?

HTML doesn't work. Just preview
everything
you write and you catch 90% of this stuff.

Freeko, your posts have lost all touch with reality, and I'm leaning towards voting you now. DDD has responded very coolly and rationally under pressure, and while it may be an act, it looks a lot better in comparison to you totally freaking the hell out crazy-style for no apparent reason.[/code][/mech]
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:00 pm

Post by Light-kun »

JereIC wrote:Post 225?

HTML doesn't work. Just preview
everything
you write and you catch 90% of this stuff.

Freeko, your posts have lost all touch with reality, and I'm leaning towards voting you now. DDD has responded very coolly and rationally under pressure, and while it may be an act, it looks a lot better in comparison to you totally freaking the hell out crazy-style for no apparent reason.[/code][/mech]
Agreed. No change in position since my last post.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:15 pm

Post by Amished »

I'm here, I'm really sorry I haven't posted as much as I normally do nor would like to. I've been very LA this last week and with First Responder training this weekend, probably Saturday night I'll address everything that's happened and answer any questions or anything.
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.

No, my name is not "Ed."
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:26 pm

Post by Nuwen »

Freeko is obtuse and abrasive in another ongoing game that I'm currently in with him. I can't talk much about the game itself, but I'm beginning to think his posting style is a disposition.

I'm grabbing a cup of coffee to reread and confirm, but I wanted to get that sudden realization out there.
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:33 am

Post by Fishythefish »

I agree that freeko's position has turned into a nonsense. freeko, you need to seriously reconsider your position on DDD. You are suffering from extreme confirmation bias, in which you automatically see DDD's posts nonsense. 262 reads like it is a token attempt to look like you are open-minded, without any actual intention of reconsidering your position. You are actively harming your case against DDD. You read like a scum desperately trying to get a townie lynched, or a hopelessly tunnelled townie.
unvote, vote freeko
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 11:43 am

Post by freeko »

Are you stupid?
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:46 pm

Post by Light-kun »

Nuwen wrote:Freeko is obtuse and abrasive in another ongoing game that I'm currently in with him. I can't talk much about the game itself, but I'm beginning to think his posting style is a disposition.

I'm grabbing a cup of coffee to reread and confirm, but I wanted to get that sudden realization out there.
I disagree. His argument isn't just obtuse and abrasive but extends from mere stupidity and dullness into a completely self destructive attack. His argument doesn't make any sense and actually could probably sink in a vat of wet cement. He is thick headed, full of omgus, and just generally seems to be set on disrupting the town in a fashion of making the ability to scum hunt nearly impossible. Only mafia gain from preventing this, and I think that he is a goon of some sort attempting to pass off as misguided townie. (I just don't think any townie is THAT misguided.)

But, if you have a counter Nuwen, do tell. But, we cannot use his ongoing game as reference until it ends. I'm affraid it won't help much, Nuwen.
freeko wrote:Are you stupid?
Yay! Argumentum Ad Hominem! This is what everyone loves!
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:29 pm

Post by ZEEnon »

Does anyone besides me see that pacman281292 is lurking to the extreme? He has not posted since last Sunday I believe. He also fails to acknowledge the accusations voiced by me, as well as by Amished .

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