Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over

[Empking]

Shanba: WLC and DDD are the main ones.

[VP Baltar]

@DDD, Or Nocmen's confused about his role/has legitimate reason from the wording to believe it may change given the bastard mod warnings. Also, just for future reference, anti-town=/=scummy and should never be your only reason for lynching, imo.

However, it's a touch baffling that you claim to speak for the rest of this town on the matter, when it in fact appears that others are quite confused or have multiple possible reads. Why are you proposing that these other players stop seeking the truth and simply adopt your own version of it?

I have a theory on my multiple reads, and I don't think it is time to reveal that just yet. I never said that town had to follow my proposal (and in fact I don't know if they are), but I will continue to state my opinion on it. If town wants to lynch you, there is little i can do to stop it, but I am against it. WLC is a much better option.

Also, why are you arguing so adamantly for your own lynch?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Also, why are you arguing so adamantly for your own lynch?

And now you're putting words in my mouth, I never said I should be lynched. I'll say it right now in plain English, I should not be lynched. I have said and will continue to say that anyone trying to unilaterally trying to cut off a topic of discussion (even if that discussion doesn't benefit me personally) is not helping the town.

[WeyounsLastClone]

First, there's the thing of his 8.33%. Now, I don't think someone part of a scumgroup would make this mistake. I found it actually more strange people get the number of players wrong. But VP wasn't the only one.

Then to something which I actually found suspicious about him.

Also, everyone should be aware that DDD is currently at L-1. Please mind your votes.

A bit of a strange thing to say, when you're one of the ones voting.

Then the following two posts:

After making my original post I quickly realized that my math was wrong because it only factored in there being one scum. I have no idea how many there are, but you guys are most likely closer to being correct at 25% than I am. Guess it is best to think things through before posting.

I'm not sure why he says 'quickly realized'. I think he was called upon.

Honestly, I wasn't even thinking about the number of scum. I was thinking about you saying a random selection of a person (datadanne)...as in 1 out of 12 (which is actually 11 as corrected by WLC).

I'm not sure about 'wasn't thinking about the number of scum'. Actually seems a townie mistake upon further consideration.


Then he comes reasonably out of the blue with a 'case' on me, and a vote. I already responded on that PBP, and I don't think it's strong. I found it strange he singled out my posts, and didn't really say why I was scummier than others.

Unvote, Vote:Nocmen (L-3) I think we could use some more pressure here.

This after he finds me suspicious for trying to pressure DD. I don't know why pressuring DD would be more scummy than pressuring Nocmen.

Simulpost...regardless, willing to believe the claim at this point. Chief is more confirmed scum in my eyes anyhow. Unvote, Vote: ChiefSkye4

LMFAO Unvote, Vote ChiefSkye4

These posts he made after each other with no posts in between. I'd think you'd remember switching your votes somehow.

One thing I think you should look at Kairyuu is Nocmen's interaction with Chief yesterday. I looked back over it and it comes off town to me. He was one of the first to push chief for her slip ups.

Switches from Nocmen being really town, to being really scum, to being town again no day 2.

reading emp's posts I don't see anything that indicates he has an investigative power, nor do I think we should be speculating on it until the town comes to an agreement that we should do so.

Shanba, it was you who made the case on Grimmy I think, do you think he should be today's lynch? WLC? DDD?

These are examples what I meant with having someone else decide. Leaving things in others hands.

Then

I'm not claiming anything, and you shouldn't be rolefishing. I have an idea of what you are in this game, and everyone should ignore your really bad play. You don't come off to me as a dullard, so I think it's intentional bad play on your part and that is everyone should be ignoring you right now and focusing on finding scum.

I don't know why he should reprimand DDD for rolefishing, while VP Baltar is constantly mentioning DDD's behavior but not saying anything specific, just beating around the bush. DDD was just as justified for his question, than VP is in his stance on DDD behavior (which I actually support).

After reading again though, I also came across some early interaction with Chief.

So, to prevent that, I request that everyone weigh in (if you haven't already) on the Datadanne situation and your views on random voting. Let's get this ball really rolling, peeps. :p

meh.

Also, sounds like you are trying to direct the discussion towards Data while sort of playing both sides of the argument until town form an opinion.

(among some other early posts)

In light of Chief being scum, something like this actually pleads for VP being town, as I doubt scum would distance this early in the game in this way.

That said, I still find VP's behavior the most scummy. Could be a case of OMGUS because he singled me out somehow, but I really think he's playing a game (well, we all are, but you know what I mean).

[Kairyuu]

I'm semi back. Don't expect more than this post from me today.

@DDD: You are really pissing me off right now. I am sick of this crap, and I'm just going to lay out all of the possibilities I see, regardless of whether you are going to get NKed or not. You are detrimental to the town.

You are either:
1. A jester, in which case we should do anything

but

lynch you.

2. A politician, in which case this revelation damages the town (but I don't care, because politician is a horrendous role for the town anyway).

3. Trying out Slayer's Gambit, in which case you are doing a really bad job of it and need to stop acting deliberately anti-town. The gambit doesn't work in the least.

This list is, of course, assuming you are not a) stupid, because you have proven yourself to be intelligent, and b) merely suicidal, because that would be bad form on so many levels.

I want a claim. Immediately. I don't care that you aren't close to a lynch. You need to explain your behavior

now

.

@all: Yes, I know I said lynching him could possibly be good, but I was assuming he could possibly be extremely stupid scum, but I dropped that idea, because I don't think he would be that stupid.

Also, lynch Nocmen! I actually agree with Empking on something for once.

[Nocmen]

Because Nocmen claimed a mechanic to his role that he has no idea how it works and so far doesn't appear to work at all. Either he's intentionally withholding information or lying about his role, both actions are highly anti-town.

Oh did I now? I don't believe that I had much of that, I said I have a role that could possibly get more powerful, but it hasn't yet.

And now I feel that WLC's vote was perfectly justified. That is the kind of explaination I would like to see from someone such as DDD.

[Grimmy]

I'm semi back. Don't expect more than this post from me today.

@DDD: You are really pissing me off right now. I am sick of this crap, and I'm just going to lay out all of the possibilities I see, regardless of whether you are going to get NKed or not. You are detrimental to the town.

You are either:
1. A jester, in which case we should do anything

but

lynch you.

2. A politician, in which case this revelation damages the town (but I don't care, because politician is a horrendous role for the town anyway).

3. Trying out Slayer's Gambit, in which case you are doing a really bad job of it and need to stop acting deliberately anti-town. The gambit doesn't work in the least.

This list is, of course, assuming you are not a) stupid, because you have proven yourself to be intelligent, and b) merely suicidal, because that would be bad form on so many levels.

I want a claim. Immediately. I don't care that you aren't close to a lynch. You need to explain your behavior

now

.

@all: Yes, I know I said lynching him could possibly be good, but I was assuming he could possibly be extremely stupid scum, but I dropped that idea, because I don't think he would be that stupid.

Also, lynch Nocmen! I actually agree with Empking on something for once.

Vote: kairyuu

I dont like the claim fishing when combined with you bringing up the possibility of him being a jester. Would you seriously expect him to claim to be as such?

Also, I think you are reaching way to far for reasons for his gameplay. That is also suspicious to me.

Grimmy

[VP Baltar]

Ok, I will address the points which I think you are saying implicate me as scum Weyouns...but I'm pretty damn confused by your whole case. There are several things that you bring up in a way that seems to indicate you think they are scummy, but then you quickly undercut them and say they are null. If you don't think they are scummy, then why bring them up?

I see one of two options: 1) You are trying to pad a weak case. 2)You are trying to put ideas out there for people to potentially pick up on without sticking your own neck out there.

Regardless, here are the points where I think you are saying I am directly acting scummy.

Also, everyone should be aware that DDD is currently at L-1. Please mind your votes.

A bit of a strange thing to say, when you're one of the ones voting.

How is it strange not to want someone quick hammered? My vote was there because DDD was acting scummy...doesn't mean I wanted him dead before we got all of the possible information available out of him.

I found it strange he singled out my posts, and didn't really say why I was scummier than others.

You made some scummy actions and it was worthwhile to put a case on you. Your point?

Unvote, Vote:Nocmen (L-3) I think we could use some more pressure here.

This after he finds me suspicious for trying to pressure DD. I don't know why pressuring DD would be more scummy than pressuring Nocmen.

The case on DD was rubbish based on him acting like a moron. Nocmen actually warranted pressure at that time.

Simulpost...regardless, willing to believe the claim at this point. Chief is more confirmed scum in my eyes anyhow. Unvote, Vote: ChiefSkye4

LMFAO Unvote, Vote ChiefSkye4

These posts he made after each other with no posts in between. I'd think you'd remember switching your votes somehow.

Nope didn't. Your point?

Switches from Nocmen being really town, to being really scum, to being town again no day 2.

I thought Nocmen was town very early in the game until we had all the role pm talk. He made a seeming slip that indicated him as scum, however, once he claimed I started to lean town again on him because something he said much earlier in the game and after a reread I could see where he was coming from.

***We interupt this thought to bring you a special message****
Actually I'm reading over my posts here and I think post 136 sums up everything quite nicely. 1)Shows I'm suspicious of Chief very early in the day (in fact the post you pointed out shows I was one of the first to question her) 2) shows my case against you wasn't "out of the blue" as you are trying to claim 3) shows I thought Nocmen was town before the role pm talk.
****Welcome back to the show****

I think we should look at the paragraphs in question about Nocmen since I think a lot of people are just going "Hey, I remember that guy being questioned day 1, let's lynch him!"

How do you believe I've slipped up? I'm merely going based off of the flavor in the first post as a logical assumption as to how the roles in this game are distributed. The flavor sets up nicely for a single scum group, and I really think that VP slipped up with his own role trying to make odds and then correct them.

I actually think we should go straight to being explicit about this:

Nocmen, please read the last paragraph of your post 108 and tell me if you notice any inconsistencies between it and your role pm. No-one else answer this please.

I don't see how the two can be directly compared to each other, one is my role pm that states my win condition, and my last paragraph mentioned that I think there are two anti-town factions/persons, neither of which I'm a part of or am.

When I reread, I realized that Nocmen's suspicions of me were based on the flavor at the beginning of the game. He thought I was a SK based on this. People misinterpreted what he said (imo) as being related to his role pm. Also, I believe his role claim as town.

Moving on:

reading emp's posts I don't see anything that indicates he has an investigative power, nor do I think we should be speculating on it until the town comes to an agreement that we should do so.

Shanba, it was you who made the case on Grimmy I think, do you think he should be today's lynch? WLC? DDD?

These are examples what I meant with having someone else decide. Leaving things in others hands.

The thing about speculating whether or not emp had an investigative role is legit. I didn't agree with it, but if the town as a whole thought it was a plan then we could go ahead. The thing with Shanba was to gauge his opinions. I didn't ask an open ended question like 'hey everyone, who should we lynch?'. I asked about very specific people because I wanted to see his opinions on those specific persons.

Now, in that post you say I'm "leaving things in others hands", but really what you accused me of in your original vote post was this:

he tries to have other people decide who to lynch (which clears him if the lynch might turn wrong).

I think you are trying to play down what you originally said because you don't have good examples to back it up. Again I ask you to point out how I am asking others to decide the lynch so a scum me would be able to later absolve myself of it.

I don't know why he should reprimand DDD for rolefishing, while VP Baltar is constantly mentioning DDD's behavior but not saying anything specific, just beating around the bush. DDD was just as justified for his question, than VP is in his stance on DDD behavior (which I actually support).

I'm not sure if I'm understanding this correctly, you think I shouldn't tell him not to rolefish (which is what he was doing) because I think DDD is acting intentionally scummy? Also, what do you "actually support"?

Just incase you are not clear on what I am talking about with DDD's behavior, look back at his posts at the start of day 2 and watch how quickly he begins to rack up votes.

Ok, I think that is everything in your post that needed addressing. Let me know if I missed something.

[VP Baltar]

Well now that it is out there, I was thinking Jester for DDD as well. Given the pre-warned bastardization (sure it's a word) of this game by the mod, I don't think it's improbable.

Of course he's not going to claim Grimmy, but I think if we have a night killing element who has been sitting back...there is your first target.

Sorry for the double post.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

@DDD: You are really pissing me off right now. I am sick of this crap, and I'm just going to lay out all of the possibilities I see, regardless of whether you are going to get NKed or not. You are detrimental to the town.

At very least I'm fulfilling my personal win con. Enjoy the game and I'm enjoying this one very much.

List

This list is, of course, assuming you are not a) stupid, because you have proven yourself to be intelligent, and b) merely suicidal, because that would be bad form on so many levels.

First off, A is a correct assumption, however, I wouldn't rule B out. I'm a touch disapointed that's all the scenarios you came up with Kairyuu, here's how I see it...

Any alignment and I've decided to simply be a prick for the game, possibly a prick with a death wish. Doesn't make much sense as a townie since we lynched scum on D1; could be disgruntled scum protesting against a broken setup. Doesn't make any sense as a survivor, does make sense as a jester except...

Jester doesn't make much sense, since I was at L-1 on D1 and immediately pled my way off it when I could easily self-hammered or waited for lixyl to do the deed for me.

I could be a townie with a power role, by behaving like this I've basically assured that scum won't kill me and I can use my role to help win the town the game.

I could be a survivor, or scum who after D1 got a great read on you guys especially Kairyuu and realized as long as I was completely and blatantly anti-town that you'd actually not lynch me because why would scum behave in such a stupid fashion as you were pushing earlier.

Or put your imagination to the test and see what wonderful other (mostly third-party) roles you can come up with for me. My current favorite is The Human Daredevil, someone who has to get to L-1 X times during the game to win. Free your mind from the shackles of conventional thought and you too might dream up a role that would fit.

So give it a rest that you've got a read on me, you have absolutely no idea what I am or who I'm aligned with.

I want a claim. Immediately. I don't care that you aren't close to a lynch. You need to explain your behavior

now

.

Well if you want to claim go right ahead, I won't stop you. And isn't that ironic, you're scared to put me closer to getting lynched, and you can't threaten me into "behaving" by not voting for me, what a conundrum. For you. I'm quite enjoying it.

Also, lynch Nocmen! I actually agree with Empking on something for once.

Lynch Nocmen!

[SilverPhoenix]

The Ninth Votecount

Shanba ~ 1

(WeyounsLastClone)

Debonair Danny DiPietro ~ 2

(Shinnen_no_Me, Nocmen)

Kairyuu ~ 1

(Grimmy)

Grimmy ~ 1

(Shanba)

Nocmen ~ 3

(Debonair Danny DiPietro, Kairyuu, Empking)

Empking ~ 0
Shinnen_no_Me ~ 0
VP Baltar ~ 0
WeyounsLastClone ~ 1

(VP Baltar)

Not Voting ~

(No one)

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

[Kairyuu]

@Grimmy: And why didn't you jump on me D1 when ortolan was attacking me for the exact same thing you just voted me over?

I dont like the claim fishing when combined with you bringing up the possibility of him being a jester. Would you seriously expect him to claim to be as such?

No. If he was a Jester I would expect some sort of crazy claim out of right field. I called for the claim to try to read him based on his reaction. It's not working.

Also, I think you are reaching way to far for reasons for his gameplay. That is also suspicious to me.

How is is suspicious? I want stated reasons as to why attempting to get a read on someone's motives is scummy. Otherwise your vote is baseless.

@DDD:

At very least I'm fulfilling my personal win con. Enjoy the game and I'm enjoying this one very much.

Enjoying the game at the expense of the enjoyment of everyone else is rude. If you can't have fun by playing properly then you should not play at all. However, I know you can play properly, so do it.

Any alignment and I've decided to simply be a prick for the game, possibly a prick with a death wish. Doesn't make much sense as a townie since we lynched scum on D1; could be disgruntled scum protesting against a broken setup. Doesn't make any sense as a survivor, does make sense as a jester except...

Jester doesn't make much sense, since I was at L-1 on D1 and immediately pled my way off it when I could easily self-hammered or waited for lixyl to do the deed for me.

OK. So you have admitted that you are not a townie, and your Jester an scum points point makes sense. That's 1 point for and 2 point against you for that.

I could be a townie with a power role, by behaving like this I've basically assured that scum won't kill me and I can use my role to help win the town the game.

But that wouldn't make any sense either, as a town power role acting like you are could very easily be brought to claiming position or even lynched for the behavior. Plus, if we have a vig you could draw that kill instead of the scumkill. 1 point for and 3 against. You are almost assured to be not pro-town aligned.

I could be a survivor, or scum who after D1 got a great read on you guys especially Kairyuu and realized as long as I was completely and blatantly anti-town that you'd actually not lynch me because why would scum behave in such a stupid fashion as you were pushing earlier.

I wanted to lynch you D1, and I am beginning to lean in favor of it again. We are as strong as our weakest link, and if you are town, then you are weakening the overall town play. At this point you cannot be allowed to survive to lylo because if you are town you may win scum the game. I think you need to die either today, tonight, or tomorrow.

Or put your imagination to the test and see what wonderful other (mostly third-party) roles you can come up with for me. My current favorite is The Human Daredevil, someone who has to get to L-1 X times during the game to win. Free your mind from the shackles of conventional thought and you too might dream up a role that would fit.

Funny, but you seem to have missed my politician idea (must get the most votes out of any other player but not be lynched). I'd say that is a decent assumption.

So give it a rest that you've got a read on me, you have absolutely no idea what I am or who I'm aligned with.

The whole damn point of this game is to get reads on people. That you are mocking the fact that we are trying to read you is horrendous play. If you are town then you should have no problem getting us to read you.

Well if you want to claim go right ahead, I won't stop you.

*headdesk*

And isn't that ironic, you're scared to put me closer to getting lynched, and you can't threaten me into "behaving" by not voting for me, what a conundrum. For you.

Nope. I'm not scared of doing anything.

vote:DDD

Lynch Nocmen!

You first. Then him.

[Shinnen_no_Me]

DDD is right about something: if he was a jester, he could have self-hammered yesterday for an easy win. But he didn't, which makes me think he's not a jester, and (thanks to his other arguments) not a pro-townie either. As suspicious as Nocmen's slip can be, I think DDD has shown us that he's not a pro-town role. Whatever he is, we can't let him live for much.

Lynch DDD!

[VP Baltar]

Well frankly DDD, if you are some sort of politician role then I think we should just kill you and be done with it. However, I still believe you are a jester(Joker) whose role changed over night. It is clear from your reactions that you feel you are in power when people are focusing on you and are getting upset when I told everyone to ignore your idiocy. I say we continue to ignore you and let you wallow your way to a loss. At worst we will find out tonight if we have some sort of protown killing role because you would be a great target.

Lynch WLC!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

But that wouldn't make any sense either, as a town power role acting like you are could very easily be brought to claiming position or even lynched for the behavior. Plus, if we have a vig you could draw that kill instead of the scumkill. 1 point for and 3 against. You are almost assured to be not pro-town aligned.

You're not factoring my arrogance into this equation, that's a mistake.

Funny, but you seem to have missed my politician idea (must get the most votes out of any other player but not be lynched). I'd say that is a decent assumption.

Didn't miss it, just didn't know what it did. Learn something everyday.

Lynch Nocmen!

You first. Then him.

[/quote]

No thx. Lynch Nocmen!

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

However, I still believe you are a jester(Joker) whose role changed over night.

Are you claiming a power role with the ability to change other people's roles and are you claiming to have targeted me last night?

[Nocmen]

I'm asking for a claim from you, DDD.
Youve done too much fishing for claims.
I also want to know, did you get any PM from the mod last night?

[VP Baltar]

DDD, if you have any sort of win con that is pro-town, you need to claim now or we should just assume you are a jester trying to get yourself killed.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm asking for a claim from you, DDD.

Alright, I claim Shanba is the Ringmaster. I'm not sure what that does, but there's my claim.

I also want to know, did you get any PM from the mod last night?/quote]

I got a reminder from the mod to send in any night actions I might have had, but I assume everyone got that one and that's it.

[Shanba]

I'm...

not the ringmaster.

Explain yourself.

[Empking]

Vanilla townie?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD, if you have any sort of win con that is pro-town, you need to claim now or we should just assume you are a jester trying to get yourself killed.

No, you have absolutely no leverage here and I will not be bullied into any course of actions by mere words. I am considering my options in regards to claiming and am trying to figure out the best course of action for myself and the town, but I will make that decision as it suits me and not to meet your requests and desires.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

I'm...

not the ringmaster.

Explain yourself.

Nocmen wanted a claim from me, he did not say who the claim should be about nor did he note that the claim had to be truthful. Hence I was complying with his wishes in their most literal meaning.

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote: DDD

Jester lynch is good.

[VP Baltar]

Hence, you are being completely anti-town. You keep talking like you have a seperate win con than the rest of town (ie "I will make that decision as it suits me"). Right now it is in the best interest of town for you to claim what kind of role you have and how you determined something about Shanba being "the ringmaster". Stop being so obstinate.