Open 135 - Polygamist Mafia, Incomplete/Mod Error before 775
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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OK, page five, and this is seriously not going to work. My eyes are continiously closing, and while I'm reading the thread, I am not seeing scummy things, it all just passes through my eyes...
General impressions till now. Zwet is very good at getting votes by being annoying, unvoting voting etc Esspecially tenchi for little reasoning.
Wall-e. Nicely tries to be protown, gets this town going. Have played with him before (or did I replace in after he was lynched?), and it is good to see that he is calmer, and not really a vote magnet, like zwet is, and like I have seen Wall-e.
Mikek. Puts some effort in this game, tries to find good tactics. Finding other poly-games for good ideas is protown in my eyes. I also don't think we should dismiss the massclaim thing now, as there are no kills (something Ace wanted to imply), and mafia can't choose.
maybe tomorrow, maybe later, I'll continue this.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I still hope I can distinguish, and I'm going to assume I can. Then this time it would mean Zwet is town. For this to work, I need some games to end, where I am in with him, but I have the feeling I see a different playstyle when he is scum.Wall-E wrote:Here's the thing: I can't distinguish between zwets as a troll and zwets as scum. He's ruining my reads of EVERYONE ELSE in this game, and so I want him (and his three scumbuds) to die.
this is a reaction on bussing. Bussing is killing your scumbuddy, something that won't happen here. Distancing is the word you need.AceMarksman wrote:Which is EXACTLY why scum would employ it as a viable tactic.
The way people hop onto Zwet is doubtful. Some have valid reasons, some (Wall-e!!!) even get on it with a weakened unsure statement...
Current feelings:
Wall-e: I need a scumgame from him, but on this moment, his free playstyle suggests town.
Tenchi: Scum. Reacts the way I would expect on votes, brings more and more pressure on zwet.
Zwet: at least has sometimes a sentence that makes sense, I don't think we will get a lot from him though. Maybe it would even be better if he just lurked. Same effect, less noise.
Archon: not too experienced scum. Is a bit shaky, and defends aggressively sometimes.
and I missed a few, these were people I had thoughts about. Most others haven't posted that much, and some I just don't have a read on.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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good news, from tomorrow I should get more time. I've got one question for Wall-e now: how often have we seen people claim a pr when they got in a little trouble, when they were town? Quite often, I'm sure. Why is being nervous scummy?
But, with Zwets play, we could have a scumteam. I expect scumteams to be made of players that are both scummy. While I think zwet not that scummy now, we can agree that he is hard to read. Both players have been under some pressure from the town. This is something we should look at.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Tenchi wrote:
Some questions on this:mykonian wrote:
Current feelings:
Wall-e: I need a scumgame from him, but on this moment, his free playstyle suggests town.
Tenchi: Scum. Reacts the way I would expect on votes, brings more and more pressure on zwet.
Zwet: at least has sometimes a sentence that makes sense, I don't think we will get a lot from him though. Maybe it would even be better if he just lurked. Same effect, less noise.
Archon: not too experienced scum. Is a bit shaky, and defends aggressively sometimes.
1. Do you think I should lay off Zwet?you should never, keep your eyes open
2. Do you think Zwet's town/scum/neutral? I noticed you didn't give a note on him and even encouraged lurking.I have seen zwet playing worse. I think he is town now. But still, most of his posts don't add anything to the game, and the few that do could also be made without all the other annoying posts. That's why I said that he should lurk. Less annoying posts, just as much good posts.
3. Can you elaborate how I "reacted the way you would expect on votes"? Can you site an example?Mainly the asking for reasons, and going far in that. It is mainly gut, but I think that pointed me to it
4. What do you mean that Archon is "shaky"?Not perfect town play, could still be scum
5. Why do you think Wall-E's town despite you saying "The way people hop onto Zwet is doubtful. Some have valid reasons, some (Wall-e!!!) even get on it with a weakened unsure statement... "same as with Zwet, I have seen Wall-e much less protown. He is less chaotic, and more protown then the last time I saw himSurrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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This is the game I know from Wall-e. Sometimes he seemed to have some concentration problem.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0
You only need to read day 1Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Archon wrote:
I'm always erratic. you can check my history for that confirmation.mikek wrote:-snip of super long post-I hate this kind of defence
I voted for zwet because everyone else was random voting people too. I wanted to separate myself from zwet for some reason. He's a troll, of course, and I didn't... I don;t know. I just voted for him because I wanted to. Not quite sure actually...okay... why would town distance? You know he is town! it is just as bad as a selfvote
I would like to take this opportunity to point out that there can be no busing, and that separating ones-self from another would not be a good tactic for mafia in this setup.Town wouldn't do it either, wouldn't even think about it.vote ArchonThis post is as scummy as it gets. I would like Looker to say something about it too, if he wants.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I would like someone to point out what the misrep is. Wether it is zwet or archon, I'd like some defence. Further, the way tenchi talks makes me nervous. I don't like people that push me towards a lynch by using a big font, and little reasoning. It makes me think I'm wrong here...Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Looker, I heard far too little from some people, and direct questions may help to get you talking. You avoided the question nicely
Wall-e, does Tenchi know that he is slightly known for pushing weak cases?
And can someone explain to me why distancing helps town?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I did ask looker something, I wanted him to go over that post. He avoided it by calling Archon scummy, without reasons. The reasons I'm interested in.
and because distancing is useless, and a scumtactic, I don't want to lynch Archon based on meta, I want to do it on scummy choices. Not how he posts, but what the motivation behind his posts was. I have read that game too.
and wall-e, if he is scum, he isn't going to answer truthfully. I want to know what you think about tenchi.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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unvote
Wwwwwaaaaaaa-llleeeee!
DON'T DO THAT.
I hate scumclaims. There is no use for town to do it. And scum thinks it can hide behind WIFOM, but that doesn't work here.
If you are town: you don't claim scum. It is useless, it never gets you closer to your goal. You don't do it.
If you are scum: You claim because you think it is only extra WIFOM. But like it is just explained, this is not a WIFOM situation, as the other chance (claiming scum as town) doesn't exist.
I can't believe my gut is wrong again, but that was as horrible as a post can get.Vote Wall-ESurrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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WHY? Wall-e, after the start of the game, I never suspected that you would claim scum. It is so obviously a bad move, that pretty much everyone understands you shouldn't do it. Plus that you should never lie as town, something you know. This simply doesn't fit in anyones town play.Wall-E wrote:Hrm. I can't believe myconian would policy vote me like that. I actually expect better from him than that.
But you make me cry inside, because that sentence really hurts. Sure, it is close to a policy-vote (and because it is 1 AM, I can't do much better) but I really believe in this policy, for given reasons. It is so obviously scummy, that you deserve the vote(s).Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I'm sorry. I continued Wall-e's "joke". Because I didn't like Jazzmyn's vote, it is a bandwagonvote, as clear as you get them. Wall-e used his scumclaim to go around the fact that he was also bandwaggoning.Looker wrote:
Wait, how do I keep gettin caught up in this Wall-E/Looker lover situation? That ain't got nothin to do with me so keep that little unfunny jokey joke attributed to Wall-E cause it ain't none of my business. And you need to specify on that reasonless vote accusation, homey.mykonian wrote:great. Are you lovers with looker and Wall-e too? That is as clear as a bandwagon vote gets. I want reasons! More of them. and on this moment, I want to know why you think it is ok to vote without giving those reasons!
And Looker, I'm not going to lynch you because Wall-e told he was scum with you, of course I'm going to lynch Wall-e. He claimed scum, but that doesn't mean he can't lie about his partners... And because the game is over after we have lynched scum, you don't need to worry about this "joke". It is not counted against you.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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OK, the first I have tried to read, but I'm really not able to. I'm sorry, but that really doesn't work. The bolded answers can help, but not if your quote fails and not if it is too much. I think I picked up something out of it, but don't count on it.
Something about the archon case stinks. Esspecially the way people got on it. Archon may actually be right with his OMGUS-FoS...Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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ok, wall-e, YOU STILL DIDN'T ANSWER ANY OF THE QUESTIONS ASKED TO YOU!
Why did you claim scum, why was Looker in it, why did you vote archon, while you meta defended him first, why did you unvote.
and a new one, what is the problem with mike? I have a positive view on his play.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Looker? (if someone wants to look at this, is this rolefishing? I'm fine with claiming my lover, as already stated, but you weren't)
and if you call that ad-hominem, fine. I want answers, and more people want them from you, and you refuse to give them, and start to fire random accusations. What do you expect?
Or are you just hoping that something will stick, and that you can get a bandwagon going. Wall-e, your play makes no sense to me.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I think wall-e needs more pressure before he wants to talk. But he is only avoiding the questions on him now. He could have answered them a long time ago.
Wall-e, I seem to remember this was a big part of your play too. You thought questions were quite important, and that you answered them always. And that it was scummy if you didn't answer. What does it mean that you don't answer?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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you improved, and that positively surprised me. BTW, I lynched because you refused to answer questions, that makes me think you had no answers. BTW, ongoing game, but now I know you, in other games I also adjusted my play to you. I only hope you won't become someone like archon, or zwet, that are proud of their playstyle, and keep it bad.
I know I'm not really complete here, but I didn't lynch you because I didn't like you or something. If you want to talk more about this, it is fine, but of course you've got to understand that talking about ongoing games is a bit tricky.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Wall-e, what are you doing here?
You do two things: you say massclaim is bad, and he is advocating it
you say it is bad to look for unnatural links.
This is the way this game has to be played: first, you try to find links, or make them unlikely, after that, by massclaim, you can see who lied about there lovers, who reacted weird on their lovers etc. Mike has read a previous game, scumhunts in a way that is required for this game, and all you can say is: "massclaim is always bad", and "he is looking at connections"
why is massclaim always bad? because with the nightkill, mafia can abuse it: there is no nightkill, so a massclaim benefits town because it gives us information, and that same information can't be abused by mafia. The fact that you step over this because "massclaim is always bad" is rubbish.
and connections, seriously, you want to be looking for them. IT IS A LOVER GAME! What do you want to be looking for, if the only thing that differentiates scum from town is that they have two more links? No town wants his lover to die, something that is the way you look for scum in a normal game. Here you need to look as mike does, and you call him scummy for it.
Wall-e, please stop this insanity. You were better in the start of the game.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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I feel bad about this, but I don't understand it. Could you please rephrase it?Wall-E wrote:
What percentage value does a vote have weighed against a huge block of text that clears someone as town?mykonian wrote:Wall-e, it was one big gambit?
what did you get out of it?
and for the new people: please don't use things like this. This is or an excuse for scummy play, or town that made a play that is hurting him, and giving low profit.
That's the only defense I will give on this issue.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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since when can't you post against anyone you like, as long as your case makes sense?AceMarksman wrote:wall-e, why did you choose a PBPA of mikek of all people? He isn't under the gun at all. I would actually have to agree with zwet (gasp) that doing a PBPA on someone who isn't a big suspect at the moment is active lurking. I suggest doing one on our biggest suspect (archon), or are you afraid do analyze your scumbuddy?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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no, wall-e, you say it is scummy, then you should tell me why it is bad.
Lets tell you why it is good to massclaim. That way, if you got two people that are scummy, and they are lovers, you've got a bigger chance that you've got scum. If you find a pair with one protown, and one antitown player, you need to think about that. It is plain and simple information that is beneficial for town, because it increases the quality of the lynch.
Now tell me why your policy of no massclaim is so good, and why we should absolutely lynch Mike for it...Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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weak answer coming... I value them both. A vote is a clear action. A whole block of text might give an insight.
Wall-e, why would you pressurize someone you had defended just before? (to state it different, why would you put pressure on someone that you think more then average town?). It only makes that he could make a mistake, and that is not something you want town to do.
In any case, you are asking it in a personal way here, and you are actually make me feel bad about this, but after I saw how you could play in the start this can simply not be explained. a gambit like play often can explain scumplay, and I don't see how you, if you played reasonable, could think that that was ever going to give you something.
Brings me back to the question: what did you get out of it?
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scum can't do a thing with that information, as they don't make any kills. and I already told you how it gives us information, because then we can search for two scummy players, in one lover team, something that will make our lynch more accurate.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Did you want to get on to the archon weagon, without knowing good reasons to get on it, and used a joke instead?Wall-E wrote:What benefit would I gain as scum, though?
Wall-e, he got 5 votes! Only two more, and that would have been a lynch. With bandwagon eager people (Jazzmyn), you could suddenly have caused a lynch, and of course people on the end would be to blame...Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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... I wish it was that easy. But that was the reason I then thought you had for your "joke". because jokes inside a game are not that often to be seen, and esspecially not with a bandwagon vote.Wall-E wrote:heh
I meant it was insulting to the town.
And if we got a quicklynch on Archon before I had a chance to unvote, odds are good the hammerer would be scum.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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you are a girl? would be nice to know how to speak to you. (he/she or it)Looker wrote:hey now, mykonian, don't act like that. I've stated my reasoning, which should give me due excuse to have fun. I KNOW archon is scum, i feel it in my ovaries! And ovaries are NEVER wrong! Now we just have to let these kind people know that they won't be chastised for making the right decision. Vote Archon.
Thanks!Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Tenchi, only one point: what wall-e did, was not smart. Or it is a last excuse for scumplay that is caught, or it is a high-risk, low gain play as town. It is not adviceable to play scummily. and if you did as scum, you are also stupid already, and this is just the best you can make of it.
But now is the question, would Town-Wall-e make that play just as often as scum-Wall-e?Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Look I have seen wall-e before. I know he could make this play as town. But I'm also sure he could make this play as scum. The question is, is he more likely to do it as scum, as then it would be a definite scumtell. It is something I believe in now, as this as town would need the explanation that he doesn't really care about the game, and that is not what I have seen from him.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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... great reason...
good thing you never brought it up. Otherwise I would have to tell you that discussion also needs people that are against it, because with people like Wall-e and Jazzmyn on that wagon, we are not trying to get the best lynch. Bandwagonning is evil.Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
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Wall-e, what are you doing here? that was the most useless question you could ask. First you go on people because the want claims, and they are looking for connections and now you are doing it yourself, in a not that intelligent, and very direct way.
If you had followed Mike's play, that you are happily interupting by this not that interesting semi-mass claim, you could already have seen how you can play this setup.
So, what is your motivation in all this Wall-e? A lot of people are again happily talking around about how archon is not that great a player, but what kind of good have you done here? Several posts that didn't stick, a lot of big words, and no results! Why say you had scum for sure, after that come with a small reason, and now again attacking that person with exactly the things you voted mike for then!Surrender, imagine and of course wear something nice.-
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008
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mykonian Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Frisian Shoulder-Demon
- Posts: 11963
- Joined: August 27, 2008