The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[Shadow Knight]

vote zwet for mayor

vote jahudo

[Shadow Knight]

vote BattleMage for Mayor

[Shadow Knight]

@Xtoxm- unlynchable period, or you survive one lynch attempt. Does "lynching" you end the day or are we just forced to choose someone else?

@BM- from what I know of you, you're a rather prolific poster and not prone to lurking as well as being a good player. These are all reasons I voted you to be mayor. I know you won't flake out and disappear (thus keeping that important double vote out of the town's hands). I also know that giving you the double vote will force you to play well as town and if you're scum, the high profile will make it harder for you to get away with anything.

[Shadow Knight]

Holy sarnath batman.

@Dizzy- you realize that whoever is voted mayor will be the most likely lynch candidate if they start using the power in a way the town as a whole doesn't agree with, right?

@Everyone- yeah, we're gonna have to test the unlynchable claim, but lets not end day one so quick, huh?

[Shadow Knight]

OMG- Stop with the quote pyramids. There aren't *that* many convos going on right now.

[Shadow Knight]

I'd say that xtoxm's claim at least gives us something to discuss, but if he's telling the truth, it just boils down to a discussion about whether a no lynch is good day one.

[Shadow Knight]

@Jahudo- he could be any number of things. He could be a Jester (although I pray the mod would let us know if we had to be on the lookout for that). He could just have an alternate win condition of getting lynched day one. He could be Judas or Vampire, or something similar (don't really recall how those roles work to be honest).

[Shadow Knight]

The sad part is that if Xtoxm is town and survives night 1, he's painted an even bigger target on his back for the vig.

[Shadow Knight]

unvote, vote ztife to lynch

Too early to scum hunt?

And my scumdar blew up when I read your proposal for mayor. Let me run it through the scumtalk/craplogic decoder.

"I promise that if I'm mayor, I will only use the double vote when the lynch is inevitable anyway, thus avoiding all blame for a mislynch."

Hmmm. No thanks. I'd rather had the double vote to someone who will use it to lynch whomever they think is scum. The only restriction on their vote should be the knowledge that if they are doubly responsible for mislynches and will thus be under double scrutiny for them.

[Shadow Knight]

@The Fonz- but being overagressive gives scum too many opportunities to capitalize on town mistakes. I've seen many overagressive townies get lynched after they lead a mislynch. Also, some of the best analysts that I've seen play, lurk through the first few days making posts sporadically to stay under the scum's radar to avoid nightkill. Then in the endgame, they bust out a PBPA that wins the game for them. Pooky and Puzzle were both good for this. With that said, don't think I'm advocating everyone do this, but more just saying that not all caution is scummy.

[Shadow Knight]

I think that if a lynch candidate makes himself irresistably scummy, we should lynch them, but if we come up on a deadline, then we use it to test xtoxm's claim based on the "some knowledge is better than random" school of thought.

[Shadow Knight]

If he's a vampire, it all depends on how the mod works it. We may have to lynch him twice to effectively make sure he's not a vampire. Granted, all this is moot if the vig decides he's a liability...

[Shadow Knight]

My thoughts about X are as follows- By claiming unlynchable, he has pretty much made a target of himself for any night killer and/or cult we might have in this game. After thinking about it last night, I'd say our best bet is to leave him alone for today and see what happens night 1. Setup speculation could take us anywhere with his claim and someone mentioned that he likes to gambit. That could make him a lot of things from vanilla to a role reflector. He could be hoping to draw the nightkill and reflect it back at whomever sent it. He could indeed be bored vanilla townie (still hoping to draw the night kill). He could be an unlynchable SK and trying to set himself up as town to draw doc protection. My point is that he could be anything (including an unlynchable townie with no other abilities that the mod threw in to mess with us). It doesn't have to be bastard mod mafia for the mod to have a little fun, right?

[Shadow Knight]

I'll admit I'm curious. Are you advocating my lynch or my candidacy and more importantly, why?

[Shadow Knight]

I think we should elect a mayor based on everyone putting up 2 candidates. The player mentioned the most gets the position. Then we decide whether we should lynch Xtoxm or direct the vig to kill him (assuming we have a vig). If we really fear the possibility of a Jester role or a variant, then vigging is the best way to get rid of him. We can also make that a part of the election process, so that the vig knows he is acting in accordance with the wishes of the town. (Usually, I'm very much against a vig firing on Night 1 or 2 unless they have a *strong* suspicion of guilt.) If the majority think we should vig or leave him alone, we move on and start looking at other people to lynch. If the majority think we should test his claim, we lynch him and move to night.

So in the interests of getting this moving and providing a standard so we all set it up the same:

Elect: Battle Mage or The Fonz
Xtoxm: Lynch

(as opposed to Xtoxm: Vig or Xtoxm: Leave Alone)

[Shadow Knight]

unvote, vote for lynch: Firestarter

After reading the scum as mayor plan, my only thoughts are:

1- WTF?
2- WTF is he smoking?
3- He must be joking.
4- Holy crap, he's not joking.
5- WTF?
6- See the first line of this post.

@firestarter- Here is a crazy idea... If

you

we find someone scummy, we'll just *lynch* them, instead of giving them more power. What the hell is wrong with you? Did you really think the town would *buy* this load of craplogic?

[Shadow Knight]

I think Xtoxm is trying too hard to GET lynched. This automatically makes me want to *not* lynch him. He's lurking enough to piss people off and this is exactly what I would do if I wanted to get lynched, not if I wanted to prove myself as town and lynchable. I say we let him get vigged tonight. Either by the town actually having a vig or by the town as a whole directing the doc to *not* protect xtoxm. This gives the scum the option to either have a small chance of being foiled by the doc or take the sure kill on xtoxm.

[Shadow Knight]

EBWODP- and my vote is on firestarter right now because I'd rather believe his is scummy than think he's stupid.

[Shadow Knight]

All it does is add another step to the lynching process for scum. They *already* have to act town in order to blend in.

[Shadow Knight]

I'm just saying that on day one, with this many players, there are better ways to make him dead than doing what he's trying to make us do. I watched a Jester destroy a game on another site, and I don't like 2nd place when we don't have to let him have 1st.

Think about it logically. What reason would *you* claim unlynchable on day 1? What usually happens to people who claim unlynchable? What usually happens to people who lurk? How about when they actively lurk? How about when they actively lurk and flaunt the fact that they are not going to answer questions? Everything he's done so far has *screamed* "lynch me". Who wants to be lynched *that* badly? Jesters. His own actions have ruled out any other role. A vampire would want to wait till late game (or at least until the scum were winning). A vanilla townie wouldn't be trying this hard.

I'm not saying to keep him alive by any means though. He wants to die, lets let him, but I'm saying not to waste a lynch on him.

[Shadow Knight]

@The Fonz- because under normal circumstances, the vig shouldn't be shooting night 1. If we *tell* the vig to shoot (or give the scum and unopposed shot) we're not wasting anything.

[Shadow Knight]

EBWODP- I'm assuming the scum would take the shot based on 1- not wanting 2nd place in the game either and 2- taking a confirmed killable over the possibly doc-protected one if they aim elsewhere. (yeah its a small chance they'll get foiled by doc protect, but why take a 93% chance over a 100%?)

[Shadow Knight]

@DI- in a large game, one can assume the town has been given more than cop/doc/roleblocker/vanilla townie to choose from. And if you had read the entire post, you'd have seen that I'm ok with the scum killing him too as they don't want to take second place either.

@zwet- Basically, I estimated that 25% of the players are scum 75% of 21 is town (16 townies). Well one is xtoxm, so that leaves 15. and guessing that only 1 doc is active among the 15 options, gives scum a 14/15 chance of killing one (93%) vs the 100% chance of killing xtoxm who will definitely not have doc protection.

@The Fonz- Whether you want to say a jester wins "first" and then town and scum fight for "second" or if you want to say he wins "also", I'd rather the town win period, and not worry about other roles. (I've also never tried to win with the "lovers" role either. When I'm scum, I want to win as scum, when I'm town, I want to win as town.) I refuse to help a neutral role who has no reason to help us beat the scum win.

[Shadow Knight]

He could be a vamp that chooses when to resurrect. It would be awful to get to lynch or lose and then have him turn up and make us lose it, or something like that. I'm all for directing a vigilante his way tonight.

Can we put the absurd conspiracy theories aside, please? There has never been a role like that in the history of mafia, and no competent mod would ever include one. If he *is* a judas role, then his chances of winning are highest if he delays his first lynch as long as possible.

I agree with this. I don't think he is a ressurector.

BTW- its not dingo's fault, I used to play on salvation and they consider a jester win as first place, followed by town or scum.

[Shadow Knight]

So we're agreed on the necessity for his death. We just need to agree on the method. I don't want to lynch him because I think the scum will kill him for us. I'd rather they NK him than a townie. If that also happens to negate his win condition then, yay, bonus.

[Shadow Knight]

*if* a townie vig doesn't do it, then the reason the scum might is that every day we leave him alive (ignoring his posts if necessary), the following night will see that he is the only one to be guaranteed no doc protection, as the doc should be protecting townies, not 3rd parties. Personally, in a game this size, I would be shocked if there wasn't a townie vig though.

[Shadow Knight]

X has created a situation in which his replacement must immediately claim or let us just assume our speculation is correct. I'm *really* not happy with him, as I know how much it sucks coming into a role where you've got little chance of survival.

[Shadow Knight]

At this point, I do at least want to hear from a replacement before we make any decision regarding the lynch.

[Shadow Knight]

Lets give him the chance to read 18 pages and catch up on the crapstorm his predecessor started.

[Shadow Knight]

@Gorrad- the mod *gave* us the vanilla townie PM.

[Shadow Knight]

In other news, does Xtoxm have a history of getting himself killed when playing a vanilla townie?

[Shadow Knight]

Yeah. Sorry dude. You were better off claiming Jester and cutting a deal with the town.

[Shadow Knight]

Ok, now I'm either getting paranoid (in real life) or I'm too caught up in the jester hunting mentality, but when you add Millar's claim to what xtoxm has already done, it makes sense if he's taking up xtoxm's goal of getting lynched. Xtoxm leaves some cryptic crap about how his replacement's position isn't as bad as we think, and then millar comes in and claims something that is pretty much guaranteed to get him lynched by a frustrated and irate town. I'd like to try something.

@Millar- if you are at least 3 votes away from lynch, please vote yourself. After he does so, no one else vote him unless you're scum.

[Shadow Knight]

@Millar- Actually, I have you at 7 votes right now, so please vote yourself in your next post.

@Everyone else- please do not vote him.

[Shadow Knight]

Just give me a little leeway on this. I'll explain afterwards. Promise.

[Shadow Knight]

@Mod- I know its soon after the last one, but can we get a new vote count?

Most of the time, a Jester will be unable to vote for himself as he could just do something moderately scummy and then hammer himself to win. If his vote shows up, then I'll drop the Jester line of thought.

[Shadow Knight]

WTF? I *told* him to vote himself.

[Shadow Knight]

and what are you?

[Shadow Knight]

Grrrrr. If he *is* a role that wants us to lynch him, I say we don't give him what he wants.

[Shadow Knight]

@Gorrad- stop thinking in terms of "we lynch anti-town" and start thinking in terms of "we don't give anti-town roles what they want." Under normal circumstances, the former would be correct, but when you have an anti-town role that wants something *other/more* than survival, you make sure they do not get what they want. If the town has a vig, letting him/her kill millar is an *awesome* way for him to let his presence be known and later confirmed without risking a townie. Under normal circumstances, said vig would have to claim and then we have to leave him/her alive for another night so they can prove themselves. If we let the vig kill millar we have the win-win situation of not giving him a win and getting a vig confirm later. The only negative is if we have a Serial Killer who makes the kill and then claims vig later, in which case, we need to pray we *do* have a vig who will either already be dead (meaning the SK is toast) or can counter claim (meaning the SK is toast). Please note the SK scenario is pure conjecture, but just used to illustrate a benefit of having millar night killed instead of lynched.

[Shadow Knight]

@BM- why not, he committed every *other* action that would get him lynched...

[Shadow Knight]

I would say give it to BM, Yosa, or Fonz.

[Shadow Knight]

Does Millar's vote still count even though he's been locked up/lynched?

[Shadow Knight]

Bah! Go Town!!