The Werewolves of Millers Hollow (Game Over)

[Dr Pepper]

I rolled a dice for the random vote, but it came up edge. I am having it sent into the shop for repairs. I will not be able to random vote until it returns.

@ The Fonz: Why should I not be electing Yos?

[Dr Pepper]

Holy 24 hour multi page explosion Batman.

Lynch Vote Xtoxm

Something about Xtoxm's claim feels very troublesome to me. Its like he threw a giant pile of gambit out there and early in day one to boot. Even if we test his claim, it does not prove his alignment. Id would be more than happy calling his bluff.

I do not like the idea of Battlemage for major right now. He is trying to hard for my tastes. Id rather not see him end of as major today.

Major Vote Percy

He made some good points about what the responsibilities of major are and I think he has a good idea about how to carry out the role. I also believe should he die, he will make a logical choice for a townie successor.

I also share some of The Fonz's concerns about DizzyIzzyB13. You dont need to wait to random vote. Thats why its random. Its not a lynch worthy point, but DI looks bad in my eyes right now.

[Dr Pepper]

Do you feel that Xtoxm is lying to us?

@ The Fonz: I believe Xtoxm is lying about his role. My current theory is that he is some sort of serial killer pulling a gambit. I think he is bluffing about being unlynchable in hopes that noone tests him. If that occurs, he knows at least one of the killing groups will attempt to murder him during the night. The only role I cant think of that would be unable to be killed duirng the night is serial killer. I would like to see him lynched before the end of the game, but not necessarily today.

@ Shinnen_no_Me: Your latest series of posts looks like a lot of fence sitting to me. You are stating the obvious and adding nothing new to discussion.

@ DizzyIzzy: There is a difference between being cautious and not doing anything useful. Now you appear to be making excuses. So before I vote you, here my question to you: How familar with this mechanic do you have to be until you make a move?

@ Mufasa: I suggest you stop voting yourself. It looks pretty suspicious and I consider it being scummy.

At this point, I feel comfortable enough to

Major Vote The Fonz

. I have a semi meta on him and its good enough to consider him for major day one.

Also, jester/vampire speculation should stop.

[Dr Pepper]

@ DizzyIzzy: Well thats not the response I was expecting, but I share the idea that we should be lynching Xtoxm before the end of the game. I am quite fine doing it today as long as ample discussion is had and with out a mayor, this day may be longer than your average day. Your stalling has been accounted for though.

@ Xtoxm: You are generating a massive pile of WIFOM on epic levels. That is rarely good for the town. I would appreciate it if you would clear some of the confusion.

@ Juls: OK, you have determined that his meta is false-claiming. Do you want a player like that sticking around for too long.

@ Firestarter: I share the idea that I would like to see potential scum as major. The major will be held more accountable than other players. Scum mayor will either have to bus their partners for self preservation, or have their voting patterns traced looking for inconsistancies when a mislynch occurs.

@ Percy : Thanks for the PBPA of Dizzy. I understand what you mean about hastening a wagon with his claim after it has started. But right now he has made a hard to believe claim, lurked heavily afterwards, and creating so much WIFOM. All of these lead me to believe he is either harmful townie or scum. Had he only made his claim but stayed more active, I would only be pressure voting instead of wanting his lynch.

@ Yosarian2: Giving scummy players a power (ie mayor) only becomes harmful if it is used without our knowledge. Having a double vote is like waving a giant sign around saying "hey guys look at me!" and having that much attention on scum is generally not the best plan.

@ Battlemage: That jester claim does not look good for you. Especially after multiple people asked for the speculation to stop. Scum often use joking to avoid providing content.

@ Mufasa: There is so much going on right now, surely you can provide a comment on something other than just voting yourself and hiding in the background.

@ zwets: LAL is a great strategy. If both townies and scum are lying, the informed minority will probably out play the uniformed majority because everyone has a plan going on noone will have an easy time sorting out the facts.

Uvote Mayor
Unvote Lynch

Vote Lynch Xtoxm

[Dr Pepper]

I think Yos's reasoning was the better method of quelching the scum-major proposal. While I was one of the people who suggested it, it does not strike me as strictly superior to any other strategy we have at the moment.

I still think scum will have a hard time using the major position appropriately without drawing attention to themselves. It seems to me scum would not want the major power as it is very easy to screw up using it.

Unvote Mayor
Unvote Lynch

Mayor Vote Yosarian2

I definitely do not like the vote for two majors proposal. I can see past my own doorstep and recognize that I need to look around for a good mayor other than myself. At least a few players have been stepping up and doing some good analysis. Since I am now going with the townie mayor plan, I think those guys would be good choices.

I dont want Battlemage as a major. Something just feels off to me right now. I cant put my finger on it. I just have a mild suspicion of him.

Firestarter made a good push of his ideas. I do not find him scummy for them. He gets some mild townie points from me.

I am kinda surprised zwets broke his five word per post meta. I am not sure what to make of it yet, but he is definitelt acting a little different than the norm.

The Xtoxm situation has me annoyed as well. He has created a gigantic pile of distraction. It is in out best interest to wait for his replacement to say something in his defense, but I will most likely lynch him anyway. I want the Xtoxm situation solved. I do not want that liability hanging around until end game.

Also Mufasa,

Lynch Vote Mufasa

, get in the game and contribute. You are now actively lurking and self voting. I want to hear your opinions. Also to all players, if you are unsure of something, ask. Otherwise, form an idea and express it. It only benefits the scum to avoid discussion and prevent scum hunting. I am going to run up a lurker wagon or two while waiting until Xtoxm gets replaced.

[Dr Pepper]

Unvote Lynch

Xtoxm/millar situation is leading nowhere good right now. Its is a distraction that needs to be dealt with before the end fo the day.

Lynch Vote Xtoxm/millar13

*facepalm* It's fine for a jester to win so we can cut back on the WIFOM which would otherwise plague us until the end of time.

I couldnt have put it any better myself zwets. Now if only you could have said it using only five words.

ShadowKnight is starting to look suspicious to me. He has reopened the Pandora's Box of jester speculation that most of us tried to close. I am keeping my eye on you.

Mufasa, you have said nothing that wasnt already espressed by somebody else. You are still riding off of the curtails of others. I would be right on top of you if it wasnt so necessary to deal with Xtoxm/millar13 right now. I will be back on your heels first thing tomorrow.

Lets not forget millar changed his claim from "Vanilla Townie" to "Village Idiot". I whole heartedly support LAL. I no longer wish to wait until later to fix the mess made by Xtoxm/millar13.

[Dr Pepper]

Lynch Vote Mafasa

He did not contribute at all on day one. He is throwing around accusatoins and calls for the lynch of Battle Mage. He doesn't even offer reasoning or analysis. I told you I would be on your tail Mufasa.

We should try to ignore millar13. He has no measurable agenda. If he has a win condition, it probably not town. We have no way to pressure him. It will only add onto the massive WIFOM generated. The town does not need this kind of distraction.

[Dr Pepper]

I don't trust millar. Even if he is town aligned (seems like a reasonable conclusion for the time being), he further added to the WIFOM, confusion, and oh yeah he changed his role claim.

Therefore,

if

I start playing properly I

can

be a huge asset.

Bold added for emphasis. Those are two conditions that I am just not willing to bank on right now. Nothing he did gives me any confidence in him. I voted him under the premise of lynch all liars. Well he is still in the game. I am not pleased with the result. I would vote him again if I could.

zwets actions yesterday made plenty of sense to me, however his premptive defensiveness about it today is unsettling. If he does think his actions were justified, then he didnt need to say anything. If he really wanted to catch scum for jumping on him, he should have waited till they jumped on him. It seems like a misplay on zwets part, but one I could see as scum motivated.

FoS: zwets

MikeSC6, I would like to see you do a little more than just toss ideas out without stating which one you believe most likely. You seem pretty on the fence. I want to hear about what your opinions are and what you believe most likely.

Glad to see Percy is flushing out the lurkers while still contributing. He seems townie for the time.

Barrylocke, we arent going to lynch any lurkers yet, but we do need to pressure them into contributing. If you know of a better way other then threatening a lynch, I am all ears.

Jahudo, it harder to get a feel on Battlemage with him out picking flowers. Going on yesterdays actions, BM wanted to keep millar alive when BM though millar was a jester. It seems like a bad idea to leave a lying, double claiming, player who at that point was causing mass confusion and WIFOM alive. It only benfits scum to do that. He also seemed to be provoking both sides of zwets and Yos2 about role fishing. He starts by attacking zwets who calls out Yos2 and then BM attacks Yos2 at the same time while pointing them at one another.

dingo, I find that accusation of Percy not contributing to be unfounded. He is clearly performing player analysis, calling out lurkers, and keeping the game moving. He doesnt need to commit to a lynch so early. Maybe he doesnt want the popular lynch to occur. Maybe ZONEACE will be the lynch for the day.

Mufasa, I am so glad to be voting you right now. Nothing you said has been useful or made any real sense. Combined with the early (post random phase) self voting you could not set off my scum dar any more. I think I caught me some scum today.

[Dr Pepper]

That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything. It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.

OK, I picked a poor way to some up your complaint. But his he stated very good reasons to be voting ZONEACE. There is little reason to question him when Percy is being very transparent.

Also if you read the rest of my comments towards you, I explain what his vote is doing. It is putting pressure on ZONE to get in the game. Also, Percy does not have to contribute to a lynch if he doesnt want to. That itself is not scummy.

It is fine that you don't like Percy's vote stance, but you have yet to give a valid reason for him to change it.

[Dr Pepper]

I'm not asking him to change his vote. But that stance that he won't change his vote unless Zoneface provides excellent scumhunting? Not a solid position. Lurking can be scummy, but votes should eventually move to who ever is MOST scummy.

Keeping a vote on a lurker can be a useful play for scum. You have an excuse to not vote for a scum buddy. You will not be blamed for the lynching of a townie if the town is going after one of their own.

This is not to say lurkers should not be pressured. If he does not respond to prods, he should be replaced. If he responds to prods but continues to lurk, he should be considered a candidate for a lynch. Putting a vote on a lurker now probably does not do much.

That is complete crap. Percy is actively contributing to other conversation. If someone else is being more scummy than feel free to convince him. Right now he has great interest in ZONEACE and finds his lurking to be the most scummy activity so far. Percy is not trying to avoid taking part in anything. Your arguement is vast stretch.

If you have noticed Battle Mage has not posted day 2

Read the thread noob. Several players including Battlemage are removed by mod generated game event. They cannot post, vote, or get lynched.

[Dr Pepper]

dingoatemybaby: Look at Percy now. He is actively participating while following another lead. Will you now try to paint Percy in such a fashion that he wasnt even close to possibly doing?

Mufasa: Are you even playing this game? Do you plan on answering the questions posed to you? When will the analysis begin? Because my vote isnt going anywhere for now and even if I change it, it is very likely to come back to you later whether it be tomorrow or next week.

zwets: OK thats now twice that you pointed at something with an implication without following up on it. You are starting to seem a little shaky in my eyes. Also I dont think Percy is quite satisfied with the answers you have provided.

I am a little dissappointed with activity breaking down. I hope to see discussion picking up and some serious analysis going on soon.

Dizzy: Mod questions need bold.

If millar13 is on the vote count list, does that mean I can vote him?

[Dr Pepper]

@tubby: There is nothing specific you directly need to answer for. The player you are replacing has been heavily lurking since day one. I personally would like a decent analysis of the current game state from you after catching up.

@dingo: I havent misrepresented anything. You have been trying to make something scummy that wasnt. I never even accused you of being scummy yet. But I am now starting to wonder just what you are up too. Percy currently has a perfectly legitamate stance and unless it was reset, he is still voting ZONEACE/tubby while contributing and starting more discussion. You are being misleading and completely paranoid with outrageous accusations.

FoS dingo

@Mufasa: You have explained nothing. My vote will still be here when you return. Perform some analysis.

I don't think zwets did anything with the Yos comment. Earlier he mentioned it may be worth discussing later. And later he didnt feel the need to bring it up. He never 'pushed' the issue. I see nothing wrong with zwets in that specific respect.

[Dr Pepper]

I criticized him for saying he would not unvote Zone unless Zone managed to accomplish "excellent scumhunting".

And I am saying the criticism is unwarranted.

Pledging not to vote for anyone else, no matter how scummy those people might be is NOT good play.

Is there a scummier person here right now? Because I dont hear you doing very much scum hunting.

dingo, who do you think is scummiest right now? Who do you think is towniest right now?

[Dr Pepper]

Specifically, I think you challenged dingo, and his response was not "misleading and completely paranoid with outrageous accusations". Can you state more clearly why dingo earnt your FoS? Was it from that post, or previous posts? If it was from previous posts, why didn't you FoS then?

dingo earned my FoS for his repeated critisms of Percy's vote plan. His opinion was made known. It was responded to by myself repeatedly and Yos in post 649. dingo keeps pushing for Percy to change the vote style only because someone might be scumiier. I have repeatedly asked dingo to provide a better target and he hasnt. dingo is trying to get a vote changed without providing a solid reason. I find these actions of his to be either misleading or paranoid.

dingo later accuses me of misrepresenting his stance when I have not. I find that accusation to be outrageous. Could I have said it a little more calmly and/or politely? Probably. Thats how I see it.

@Fonz. You here?

I wouldnt make such a big deal about this except this is the third time today/this week we have mentioned several of the players are removed due to their roles' gender. Only 12 of the town is remaining because 8 of the players are in stasis. Good selective reading there sir. If you were paying any sort of attention, this question would have been answered a couple days ago after asking about BattleMage.

tubby: I am still waiting for that catch up post you promised a couple days ago.

Mufasa: Are you quitting because thats what it looks like? My vote is going to stay here now because I am certain of your scummitude. You have been very dodgy, avoiding questions posed directly to you. And now it seems like you are lurking until this blows over. I wont tolerate it.

On another note, there is plenty of material for analysis. I want to see people out here making some actual discussion as opposed to sitting on the side lines. The scum wins when town lurks and doesnt talk.

[Dr Pepper]

I Seriously feel that Dr. Pepper was being very impatient and pushing the issue and I am busy and he didn't even read that I was gone during about 4 posts all asking a question when I was gone and expecting an answer.

OK, you can get points for me being impatient, BUT

1) You directly ignored questions asked to you before the absence, you responeded to them before your absence by dismissing them.
2) I knew that you were gone, but you were gone for longer than posted. So I kept and will keep pressure on you.
3) Being in multiple games does not excuse you from this one. I dont care if you are in one game or twelve. If you play in the other games the way you play in this one, maybe you need to play only one at a time.
4) I haven't pushed for your lynch yet. Good misrep sir. I am willing to lynch you now. DIE SCUM.

I really was just tossing out a name for sake of discussion.

Had you said that a couple days ago, it might have been believable, but right now it seems like some back tracking. Your reasons for past actions change every time they are discussed.

almost to the point that you are trying to hard to get an easy lynch in which It makes me think that you may possibly be scum

Thank you Jahudo.

I want everyone to think carefully before posting. Look at the list and if they have a female role, THEY CANT POST. I will not even pretend to allow I didnt know to be a defense. This game is well into day two and there is no excuse for not knowing these simple things.

@zwets: I would like a better explanation for why you believe Mufasa to be town.

[Dr Pepper]

And there it is again. I have not once asked Percy to change his vote.

OK, one question. Why criticize him for his statement then?

Also dingo, not to be insulting. If you are going to vote me, bold it so the mod can see it. I understand you are voting me right now.

[Dr Pepper]

I am glad Yosarian2 sees what I am getting at. Since dingo has had time to answer my question but chosen to ignore it, I will continue forward. I understand your stance, but you have no reason to be pushing it. And now you are distancing yourself from it.

I didn't call dingo out until after he psoted

Calling out lurkers, voting for them and demanding quality participation doesn't seem like a bad idea. I don't have much experience, so I can't comment on its overall efficacy, but I'm willing to give it a spin.

I'm sure that calling out lurkers is a good idea. However, you suggested you would keep your vote on him until he provided "excellent" scum hunting. That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything.

It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.

Bold added for what I am most curious about. dingo implies that Percy's lurker hunt is a way to avoid commiting to a lynch. I think dingo is trying to split hairs when it is pretty clear what he intended.

Percy stated to keep his vote on ZONEACE. dingo didnt like this statement and criticized him for it. The only logical reason to make a statement is to affect change. dingo further backs up the criticism by saying Percy might be voting ZONEACE to 'avoid commiting to an actual lynch'. I respond with if Percy avoids commting then criticism may be warranted, but until then Percy has solid ground to stand on. Now dingo is back peddaling.

unvote
lynch vote dingoatemybaby

Dont worry Mufasa scum, I'll be sure to finish you off if you are the lynch for today, especially since your discussion has been lacking. But right now I want to discuss dingo. I would also like others to chime in as well.

[Dr Pepper]

Look dingo, the fact that you refuse to acknowledge that your actions and statements could be interpreted in anything other than what you say makes you ignorant. I am not a liar and I have stated my opinion. Just because you believe one thing doesnt make it true. If you were honestly trying to sort things, maybe you could listen and realize "Hey, that might look like what Dr Pepper is saying" and instead of calling me a liar.

Since you are refusing to acknowledge that I have a point, I am going to assume dingo is either scum or stupid. I quoted you several times to back up my arguement and instead you just ignore me.

I did not vote for him until it became clear he would not speak honestly about what I had actually said. I've even offered to remove my vote if he would simply provide a quote from me backing up his claim. He responded with an OMGUS vote against me. Just how many times should I allow Pepper to misrepresent what I said before I call him out a liar?

Here is what really happened, dingo voted for me when it became obvious that I would not let his idea slide. I understand his motives could be honest. But I saw another opinion and want to discuss it. dingo's responses have been less than townie. And just requoting yourself dingo to hide the original statement is not content, it is spam.

Oh and I notice you ignored Jahudo's question posed directly to dingo. One very similar to one I asked earlier. Again, good selective reading there dingo. Here is it again.

That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything. It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.

Did you think Percy was doing this intentionally? Do you think any town player would do it? If so, why?

Oh and to counter this

He did not claim I had a hidden motivation. He claimed I said things I did not say.

with the truth

@dingo: I havent misrepresented anything. You have been trying to make something scummy that wasnt. I never even accused you of being scummy yet. But I am now starting to wonder just what you are up too.

I am not concerned with surviving because if I go down, I am landing on top of you.

This discussion wil hopefully pick things up since there is lurking and non-interaction by multiple members.

Mod: Can we get a prod on tubby since the replacement seems AWOL. He has only posted a few times to say 'I am still reading' and has been gone for three days.

[Dr Pepper]

OK dingo, lets go to the board with some simple 2nd grade logic since you cant make the connection.

I'm sure that calling out lurkers is a good idea. However, you suggested you would keep your vote on him until he provided "excellent" scum hunting. That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything. It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.

Keeping a vote on a lurker can be a useful play for scum. You have an excuse to not vote for a scum buddy. You will not be blamed for the lynching of a townie if the town is going after one of their own.

First dingo says that Percy is not moving his vote, then he says not moving his vote is a scum tactic. He doesn't actually accuse Percy of anything, but leaves everyone to draw their own conclusion.

dingo's stance is
A) Percy is not moving his vote
B) Not moving your vote is a scum tactic
therefore the implication is drawn
C) Percy is using a scum tactic

He never actually says C, but the implication is there. And given how much he is back peddaling I think I found something useful. If dingo had said, well thats one interpretation but not what I meant, then I would have moved on. Instead he calls me a liar and accuses me of misrepresenting him. dingo, at least three other players see my point. Just acknowledge it exists and is reasonable.

zwets and Jahudo, do you wish to end the Pepper/dingo discussion for now? Is there another discussion you would like to see occuring?

[Dr Pepper]

Dr Pepper
(A) dingo accused Percy of using a scum tactic in voting for ZONEACE/tubby.

FACT

(B) dingo may be scum with ZONEACE/tubby.

FACT

(C) dingo has not presented a good enough argument to show that (2) holds.

OPINION

Therefore:
(D) dingo may have other reasons for holding (2) beyond those currently stated.

POSSIBILITY

Therefore:
(E) dingo may be discouraging a vote on ZONEACE/tubby, for scummy reasons.

POSSIBILITY

Thats a pretty good summary of my position.

@Dr Pepper: Post 769 is true, and I'm sure dingo would agree. That's why he voted for me - he thought I was using a scum tactic. This is a self-evident fact.

Here the problem. dingo doesn't agree with any of 769 even though it is clearly true and is trying to split hairs to get away from what he implied. dingo either can not or will not make any simple logical connections because they would make him look bad.

dingo, I have not lied about what you said. Yosarian sees my point. zwets and Jahudo understand my position and believe it to have town motives.

@ dingo: Why are you so thick headed and tunnel visioned that you cannot see what I am saying to be true?

MikeSC6 sums up my point pretty well

It seemed to me that it was just a figure of speech- if it got to a point where whoever it was refused to consider anything else because of the (lack of) actions of a replacements predecessor, then sure we should look into it.

But until then, its not worth criticizing Percy for the conditions in which he would not move his vote.

Now I understand dingo scum is angry, and rather than pony up, dingo is trying to spam the thread with accusations of lying to bury the truth. So congrats dingo scum, because now someone (MikeSC6) has admitted to not reading the thread fully. So dingo's strategy of talk until they give up is starting to work. dingo, do you understand that my vote on you is not only because of the initial 'not moving your vote under any conditions' idea, but also because of the accusations of lying and rampant spamminess.

@ Mufasa: I havent forgotten about you. The longer you wait to participate, the more likely you are to get lynched tomorrow. Up to eight players will be returning and probably wanting answers from you about day one. And I wouldn't mind lynching Mufasa myself if I ever finish this conversation. He has had plenty of time to answer but chooses not to. Heck, he even chooses to do nothing more than point out the obvious.

[Dr Pepper]

@ dingo: Its valid after it happens, not before hand you fucking troll.

[Dr Pepper]

Congrats dingo, you got under my skin. I HATE having someone try to twist things around due to their own ignorance. By the way, I do mean you are a "fucking troll", dingo. I mean it in the most insulting way possible.

dingo gave his reasoning for questioning Percy, and I have shot it down. If Percy was going to do any of the scummy things related to not moving his vote until tubby/ZONEACE comes up with excellent scum hunting, then point them out when it occurs. Do not just hide behind thinly vieled accusations. Because the reasoning listed from the questioning is a very thinly vieled attack. And I called your ass out for it dingo.

And while dingo may have had one thing in mind while typing his intial concerns, it is very easy (and reasonable) to read it another way. And dingo's follow up statement about me mis-reping his stance, well what do you think of Percy now that Percy is staying the course with the stated strategy? Is Percy scum or town for not moving his vote until tubby/ZONEACE comes up with some excellent scum hunting? Becuase your earlier statement of players who dont move their vote regardless of what else is going on strongly implies that dingo thinks they would be scum for doing it.

dingo seems to draw conclusions from my statements and streches them in whatever direction dingo wishes until they become lies and label Dr P as a liar. dingo wont make a simple intelligent connection regarding his own words.

Now you seem to be admitting that the question of whether Percy really will not move his vote except under specific and hard to meet conditions is valid. Will you retract your lies?

I retract no lies because none have occured. dingo's concerns are only valid if the specific criteria listed within dingo's reasoning actually occur. I submit that none of those conditions have occured so the pre-emptive criticism on dingo's part is unwarranted.

Here's something for you dingo, my vote is staying on you until you are either lynched, or night killed. Criticize that jackass.

[Dr Pepper]

I am going to take a shower before heading out. I have many responses to everything going on because it just went from fustrating to extremely interesting in my opinion. I see many scummy opportunities from many players and will elaborate tomorrow afternoon (roughly 24 hours from now).

I do have one request though. dingo, if you have the time, please repost the question that you think I have not answered.

[Dr Pepper]

EBWODP: I mean dingo, if you have the time, please repost the question(s) that you think I have not answered (properly).

[Dr Pepper]

Long post, with hopefully less ad hom. Sorry guys but this Pepper/dingo situation is not going away until it gets resolved.

@Mike: Your posting format is fine.

Also, major footnote before the Pepper/dingo discussion continues. Mufasa will not get away with lurking and ignoring questions. The longer Mufasa waits to get active, the harder it will be to for Mufasa to deny lurking and intentionally ignoring questions.

I think Mike hit the nail on the head with his analysis. dingo makes a comment which I interpretted as an accusation. Namely this one.

I'm sure that calling out lurkers is a good idea. However, you suggested you would keep your vote on him until he provided "excellent" scum hunting. That seems to me a way to keep a vote out there which won't really do anything. It is an easy way to avoid committing to an actual lynch.

And Mike sums up my idea pretty well here.

It would have been better if this idea was kept private, and brought out if Percy did end up abstaining from discussion.

If dingo is not making an accusation and instead discussing a hypothetical situation before it occurs (and may not ever occur), then dingo's post is not content, it is just fluff disguised as content.

At first I saw dingo making a thinly vieled attack against Percy. If it was not something to be investigated, then it was just a distraction. Multiple players stated Percy's voting stlye to be not worth mentioning at the moment it was brought up.

Also I would like to address this,

Originally I thought the way Dr. Pepper investigated the original dingo post using inference was a pro-town move but upon re-looking at how they have continued the discussion I am not so sure that Dr. Pepper is tunnel-visioned on the conclusion drawn from that inference.

I have to plead guilty (although I dont think it was that bad) to this for two reasons.

1) The tunnel vision thing occured mostly because dingo did not acknowledge the inference from the post 638 existed. dingo went to instead correct me with some sort of superiority complex. After repeating and reinforcing myself we arrive to part two.

2) dingo calls me a liar. Now not only has dingo thrown the guantlet, but dingo now declares full out war on Dr Pepper.

Now I am going to make thing real simple, either

A) dingo is telling the truth and and Dr Pepper is lying. In this situation Dr Pepper should be the lynch for today.

B) Dr Pepper is not lying. If Dr P isnt lying, then dingo must be lying about how Dr P is lying. In this situation dingo should be the lynch for today.

I just have a very hard time seeing it any other way. Once the word "liar" was thrown out not once but repeatedly by dingo, it was a personal attack and full out attempt at lynching Dr Peper. I am way past the point of accepting the two townies butting heads theory. I think the lynch for today should be either dingo or Dr Pepper.

But thats not all folks. Percy' super post worries me because it has both great and awful points.

End this pointless debate, my brethren, and concentrate on lynching the evil ones...

This jacks up the possibility of one of them being scum. I've been suspicious of zwet for many reasons I've already stated, and this seems like an attempt to give either of those locked in the argument a good "out", even if it is later in the day. It's characterising the whole debate as "something you shouldn't bother reading".

There could have been avenues to dismiss this argument as two townies butting heads, but the fact that it's gone on so long really doesn't lend itself to that interpretation.

I agree with these two quotes listed above.

This is it in a nutshell. Dr Pepper continues to insist that, even though dingo never said "Percy should change his vote", that was the only good reason he would have brought it up in the first place. This is false, as several players have already mentioned.

That is pretty close to the whole arguement in a nut shell. If you take away the whole implication that Percy should be moving his vote, then dingo's post becomes fluff discussing a hypothetical situation before it occurs.

I think dingo was arguing all along that I was using a scum tactic, as I said before. His posts just don't make sense otherwise. Pointing this out is again off-topic and inconsistent with his other lines of attack against dingo.

I keep bringing this point up because it is very relevant. Especially since dingo says things like this a lot.

And while dingo may have had one thing in mind while typing his intial concerns, it is very easy (and reasonable) to read it another way. And dingo's follow up statement about me mis-reping his stance, well what do you think of Percy now that Percy is staying the course with the stated strategy? Is Percy scum or town for not moving his vote until tubby/ZONEACE comes up with some excellent scum hunting? Becuase your earlier statement of players who dont move their vote regardless of what else is going on strongly implies that dingo thinks they would be scum for doing it.

Your inability to speak the truth never fails to amaze. No, I do not think that Percy's decision to keep his vote on Tubby through the day thus far is scummy.

So what I get outta these two quotes is

1) Percy thinks that dingo thinks Percy is being scummy
2) dingo doesn't think Percy is being scummy

That worries me especially since Percy is now Fosing me. Compounded by the fact that it is an Fos instead of a vote because the hypothetical situation dingo implies may now actually be occuring. Percy, if you find me scummy, then vote me. There will be plenty of time to vote ZONE/tubby replacement when they arrive.

Oh, one more thing since I just saw dingo most recent post. How does this

@Pepper - If I compiled a list of questions that have been posted to you that you have chosen not to answer, would that increase the likelyhood you would respond to them?

become this

If you want to answer the questions you have ignored, go ahead and answer them. But there is no way I am going to spend an hour re-reading the conversation and collecting quotes only to have to ignore or misrepresent them so you can get me posting the questions back at you over and over again to try and show you are not dealing with them honestly.

dingo's still being pretty hostile in my opinion. One of us should be lynched today between dingo and Dr Pepper. I think it should be dingo.

[Dr Pepper]

I am still here even though I quit for all intents and purposes a while ago.

The multiple day two replacements, rampant lurking, and inability to understand even the simplest of arguements have ruined this game for me. The only reason I even bothered posting is to save the time it would normally take to replace me.

No offense Firestarter, but your last four or five posts have been "Sorry guys, will post later." Based on your track record so far today, I am hestitant to accept any more excuses.

No, I am not going to claim.

So any scumone wanna drop the hammer on me?

[Dr Pepper]

Actually, I'll solve this right now.

unvote

vote Dr Pepper

[Dr Pepper]

Are we allowed to post? Can get some role reveals? Could you post the setup and/or a night action log?

[Dr Pepper]

It also didn't help that we had two separate times this game when a pro-town player lied for no good reason, was caught lying, and was lynched because of it; that, itself, really hurt us.

I was following the game on some level as it went on. Care to clarify on this?

[Dr Pepper]

Thanks, I forgot about the Xtoxm/millar situation.

I take some credit for the destruction of the town day two. Not all of it, I still hold to my original point even though dingo did not turn scum. However, the argument became too entrenched at that time. Discussion couldn't change to other members and thus information became stifled. I hit my anger limit, self killed to both end the conversation and allow the eight females back into the game.

Which brings me to my second problem, women off picking flowers? Not the name but the effect. I have a problem with a game where a mechanic forces any number [1 or more] players out of the game for a couple weeks and then bring them back later with and expect them to continue like they never left. Not a criticism of the mod, just of the game itself. So I can easily support Battlemage's apathy at the end because why should he care?

Anyway, that just my opinion. Felt like giving my follow-up thoughts to this game.

[Dr Pepper]

Yeah, you can post. If people want to reveal their roles they can.

The setup/night action log I'll let HC do when he returns

Are we getting role reveals?

Possibly, but I am not holding my breath.