Mini 763 - Carnival Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #475 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:26 am

Post by WeyounsLastClone »

So now we're waiting for Shinnen to claim? And hopefully Grimmy when he gets back tuesday.
VP Baltar wrote:Also, your claims sounds kind of sketchy. A grizzled war veteran in 1829 Germany? So you fought in the war of German Unification? Seems a bit farcical to me. That being said, it could seemingly balance having a Jester.
I've fought in the American War of 1812, and in the Napoleon wars.

How does my claim sound sketchy? I believe, in a way, that a vanilla claim is more sketchy than a claim with a role. You have it easy with no role and corresponding actions (or lack thereof) to explain. And selling waffles? Believable but farfetched. Just something a scum can claim without being in too much danger that a townie would be a waffle vendor. I'm not saying you're scum, but you've certainly not proved you're town yet. I really don't like the way Kairyuu and you are teaming up.

And Kairyuu, just for confirmation that there aren't any restrictions on your double vote, can you put the vote on another player that has 0 votes at the moment (until the next vote count)?
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Post Post #476 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:37 am

Post by Empking »

WLC: You were told what wars? Why didn't you sayv it in your claim?

Do waffle sellers exist in real life?
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Post Post #477 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:19 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Yeah I think this game is pretty much on idle until Shinnen and Grimmy claim.

Waffles are actually very popular in Europe as a snack food, Emp.

The reason I said your claim sounds sketchy Weyouns is that it's awfully elaborate. Especially now that you have named two specific wars you fought in. Granted, I don't have a power role, but that seems like quite a fleshed out back story considering that my role PM was pretty simple. You are alledging that your character fought in the United States in a war between the US and Britain, aaaand in the Napoleonic Wars (which are from like 1800-1815 I think). So, I take this to mean that your role is British, I suppose. Like I said, just seems a bit elaborate.

It's also pretty convenient in the sense that at this point in the game it seems unlikely the town is going to want you to prove yourself at night.

I keep going back and forth on you now, however. Like I said, I could see the one shot vig being a good balance to the jester. I also took a look at War in Heaven II and I can completely understand why you didn't have time for this game earlier (175 pages in like a month!). So, my point is that pending the remaining claims I think that Emp should still be today's lynch.
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Post Post #478 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:25 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Sorry for the double post. I was also thinking about Emp's claim. Being a news reporter is even less believable considering that I don't see what interest a news reporter would have in the Jester and Puppeteers fighting over the carnival. Frankly, that's a better story than the "fluff piece" Emp says he came to the carnival for!
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Post Post #479 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:33 am

Post by Empking »

VP Baltar wrote:Sorry for the double post. I was also thinking about Emp's claim. Being a news reporter is even less believable considering that I don't see what interest a news reporter would have in the Jester and Puppeteers fighting over the carnival. Frankly, that's a better story than the "fluff piece" Emp says he came to the carnival for!
Its not the fight I'm here for. Its the arrival of a large carnival.
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Post Post #480 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:10 am

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@WLC:
I really don't like the way Kairyuu and you are teaming up.
When I have a decent town read on someone (or even when I just want to get something done and one of my suspects wants it done too) I tend to focus on working with that player. It gets things done faster and more effectively than fighting for every inch. Examples include:

Newbie 661, where I worked with Save the Dragons most of D1 (he died N1 and then we broke the game right from the off D2).

Mini Normal 682: C9++, where, once I was confirmed town, I tended to go with the majority rather than my own suspicions for the sake of progress (and then I broke the game D3 or 4, so it was all good).

Mini Normal (dunno the number): El Puma, where D2 (I replaced in in time to hammer D1) I worked with Panzerjaeger to get vaquero, the scum RB lynched, and then got killed by the SK that Night.

Newbie 750: Myself, Flame, and Albert B. Rampage pretty much just teamed up and wiped the scum out D1 and D2 (though N1 Albert died and Serplat joined our 'team' D2).

There's probably more, but those are the ones that came to mind.
And Kairyuu, just for confirmation that there aren't any restrictions on your double vote, can you put the vote on another player that has 0 votes at the moment (until the next vote count)?
Sure thing. There will be a vote on Nocmen in the next votecount.
I've fought in the American War of 1812, and in the Napoleon wars.
Umm. Those wars happened practically concurrently. How were you in two places at once? It is highly unlikely that the British would take troops away from fighting the French, their main opponent, and send them to fight the 'upstart Americans.' Plus, the two wars were on different fields of battle. The War of 1812 was almost entirely a naval war, while the British naval superiority kept the French confined to a land war. The history doesn't make much sense here.
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Post Post #481 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 12:27 pm

Post by WeyounsLastClone »

Will be awaiting next vote count, but thanks Kairyuu in advance. For some reason I'd like to think you're scum, but anything you can do to prove you're not would be great I guess. And thanks for the references. Do you also have references to games where you were scum?

About my role: without going into dangerous territory again with analyzing pm's, those two wars were actually mentioned. I suppose a waffle guy has a less spectacular background than a war veteran. Or you're hiding something.
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Post Post #482 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:27 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

Hmm. I've only been scum twice, so those are easy enough:

Mini Theme 658: Facedown and Thirsty Mafia. I was the 'godfather.' That was the game I referenced when I said my role flavor didn't make sense with the mod's flavor. The only similarity I can think of between this game and that one was that I was against a massclaim, but for a different reason (I was scum with no safeclaim or fakeclaim prepared, compared to having a power role with 99% certainty that I will die the Night after I claim it).

Mini Theme (number eludes my memory): Wheel of Time Mafia: Another one where the scum had no individual powers, though this time we had a collective power bank that we could choose a single one-shot power from. This is the one Emp was my scumbuddy for, where we had a "Shadow Vote" as one of our choices.
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Post Post #483 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:37 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Does anyone think Emp's flavor not really having a vested interest in the success of the carnival is suspicious?
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Post Post #484 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:15 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

I do. I mentioned it somewhere above I believe.
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Post Post #485 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:29 pm

Post by VP Baltar »

Oh, must have missed it.
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Post Post #486 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 2:50 pm

Post by Nocmen »

Empking wrote:
VP Baltar wrote:Sorry for the double post. I was also thinking about Emp's claim. Being a news reporter is even less believable considering that I don't see what interest a news reporter would have in the Jester and Puppeteers fighting over the carnival. Frankly, that's a better story than the "fluff piece" Emp says he came to the carnival for!
Its not the fight I'm here for. Its the arrival of a large carnival.
Bullshit. It sounds like the carnival's been around for a long, long time.

I'm voting you once the other claims are in, unless one of them gives me a rvery good reason to vote them instead.
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Post Post #487 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 4:14 pm

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Well, time for my claim. I'm the turkey-leg vendor (paradoxically, because I hate turkey... -_-U). Yep, vanilla as it can be.

So, Grimmy's next, right?

Right now I'm a bit inclined for an Emp's lynch, due to the small slip with his investigation and with the second informative role in such a mini game. But well, let's wait for Grimmy's claim.
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Post Post #488 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:19 pm

Post by Kairyuu »

Alright. I think that it's safe to say that the food vendors are all vanilla townies, and are all cleared at this point. Since I also consider myself cleared (for obvious reasons), that leaves 2 scum out of three people. Let's analyze the two that have claimed:

1. Empking: Claimed reporter. Says that he is doing a fluff piece on the Carnival, which just came into town. There are many problems with just that part of the claim, as wikipedia tells me, because Karnival in the Rhineland began (specifically in Cologne and Duesseldorf) to be a
local
festival in 1823, 6 years before the Carnival we are supposed to be taking part in, so not only would the reporter (assuming the concept of a reporter was around in the early 1800s) would not be interested in something 6 years old that was merely a local festival. He may have been interested in the fighting that was breaking out, but that was not what Empking claimed. Also, the idea of "coming into town" cannot be true either, as in the early years of the Carnival, it was not a travelling show, but rather a community festival to precede Lent.

And then onto the role he actually claimed. Thus far, all of the roles revealed have been at least semi-standard (VT, doublevoter, vig, tracker, sibling), but Emp claimed a role that I, for one, have never heard of, and sounds waaay too similar to ortolan's role to be true. Plus, the methodology of the role doesn't work either. You claim to be a reporter, but you are going to people's houses in the middle of the night to see if they are home? How does that have anything to do with the way a reporter funtions logically?

Looking at everything involved in Empking's claim, and even ignoring the slip up, it is very obvious that his claim is faked.

2. WLC: Claimed one shot vig. Oddly enough, this is the exact fakeclaim used by Mokina, one of my scumbuddies, in Facedown and Thirsty, so I'm wary right off the bat because of that. Also, the historical implausibility I already mentioned before, and while it
could
serve to counteract the Jester role, it is highly unlikely that something like that would happen.

Now let's get into balance issues. I'll start by saying that I like one shot vigs in Minis. They are great balancers for the town to have in a 12 person game, because otherwise, barring some other killing role or a kill prevention of some sort (be it No Lynch, doc protect, roleblock, etc), the town will be left in an unfavorable lylo position (assuming they don't win before lylo) of either 5-3, 4-2, or 3-1, which provokes a No Lynch, thereby sacrificing the most pro-town player right before it matters the most. The one shot vig counteracts this by giving the town a single kill, that, even if it doesn't hit scum, makes the lylo situation more numerically favorable to the town. This game counteracts this problem in a different way however. By lowering the player count by one, the need for a one shot vig is completely eliminated, as now, unless it hits scum with its single shot, it damages the town severely in a two-fold manner; both by removing an available mislynch before lylo, and by putting the town into that exact unfavorable lylo situation that the role is put in to avoid. Therefore, balance issues imply strongly that if there was a vig (which there shouldn't be in the first place), that it would be of the regular variety.

Given all of that, I am reluctant to believe your claim WLC. However, I do not want you to attempt to prove it, as, if Empking is not scum, and you do not hit scum with your shot (assuming you are telling the truth), then we autolose instead of going into lylo. For all intents and purposes, your role should be treated as a vanilla townie if you are town.
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Post Post #489 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:53 pm

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Hmmm... It's truth that the most unlikely role is Emp's. However, it's precisely in this game where I have read a kinda of townish attitude from him, in contrast with other games... So, I'm really not sure how to proceed on this one.
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Post Post #490 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:59 pm

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Well, considering that he has 2 votes on him now, and another 3 (my second, Nocmen, and VP) that will be racing to get to him first once the claims are over and we have determined that we can end the Day, he's gonna die today, no two ways about it.

@all: I claim the hammer, to prove another possible restriction that I just thought of (not being able to hammer with my hidden vote) does not apply.
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Post Post #491 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:11 pm

Post by Empking »

Kairyuu wrote: Looking at everything involved in Empking's claim, and even ignoring the slip up, it is very obvious that his claim is faked. .
Like working out Shin was a vanilla town where every role so far was power?
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Post Post #492 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:54 pm

Post by WeyounsLastClone »

@Empking, what do you think of the other claims? Which ones do you think are believable or not? In the case you flip town if you get lynched, who do you find the most suspicious at the moment and why?
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Post Post #493 (ISO) » Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:01 pm

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WeyounsLastClone wrote:@Empking, what do you think of the other claims? Which ones do you think are believable or not? In the case you flip town if you get lynched, who do you find the most suspicious at the moment and why?
Unvote: VPB


I think you due to the knowledge of the wars you fought in that you didn't mention. Then K due to the "Don't mention the game that would disprove my point".
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Post Post #494 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:40 am

Post by VP Baltar »

Empking wrote:Like working out Shin was a vanilla town where every role so far was power?
I claimed vanilla, as did Nocmen (except for his confusion, which I'm still not entirely clear on).
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Post Post #495 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:46 am

Post by Empking »

VP Baltar wrote:
Empking wrote:Like working out Shin was a vanilla town where every role so far was power?
I claimed vanilla, as did Nocmen (except for his confusion, which I'm still not entirely clear on).
The two of you claim vanilla (Noc claimed a power role) after I claimed.
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Post Post #496 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:03 am

Post by VP Baltar »

No, Noc claimed essentially a vanilla with a chance for his role to change somehow over night, if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct, Noc?
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Post Post #497 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:24 am

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

Also, what's wrong with the vanilla claim? As Karyuu said, it seems the vanilla are the food vendors, so, what's the problem? Would you have preferred me (or VP or Noc) to claim a power role?

Ok, then, let me change my claim: I'm a power role that have the ability to stay quiet during nights, waiting for the dusk to come. During days I have this great ability called "vote", which lets me, with some help of other players with my power role, lynch a scumbag. Albeit it sometimes misses, it's the best PR ever.

There, happy? ;)
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Post Post #498 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:26 am

Post by Empking »

Shinnen_no_Me wrote:Also, what's wrong with the vanilla claim? As Karyuu said, it seems the vanilla are the food vendors, so, what's the problem? Would you have preferred me (or VP or Noc) to claim a power role?

Ok, then, let me change my claim: I'm a power role that have the ability to stay quiet during nights, waiting for the dusk to come. During days I have this great ability called "vote", which lets me, with some help of other players with my power role, lynch a scumbag. Albeit it sometimes misses, it's the best PR ever.

There, happy? ;)
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Post Post #499 (ISO) » Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:59 am

Post by Shinnen_no_Me »

To you, obviously.

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