Mini 776: End of the World Zombie Survivors Mafia: Abandoned

[Gateway]

Actually. I can agree with that. I see a flaw in your logic,
Any other choice would be random, but we -know- diamond is not responsible enough. His very first post proved that without a doubt.

We need someone to have it though and I would gladly give it to semioldguy as they give me a very pro-town vibe right now. And they have to be more responsible then Diamond.

[evilevilmatt]

Yes. I realize giving him the gun goes against his opinion that it should be random. But its the fact that he wants to use the mods random results (so we know its random) that is protown.

[Gateway]

Ah yes, maybe I worded it wrong. That is why I feel he should have it as well.

Ungun/Gun: semioldguy

I would feel better about my decision if you gave yourself a vote as well.

Fixed vote bracket

[Gateway]

*Can a mod fix that bracket for me? Thanks.

[kabenon007]

I'm content to have either semioldguy or diamond have it. I'd prefer semi, so

gun:semioldguy

[evilevilmatt]

Sorry Gateway. I wasn't trying to reply to your post I just had another thought and figured I'd get a double post. You snuck one in on me, lol.

I do disagree with you though about him voting for himself. Integrity and all that.

[Gateway]

I understand. I can not say I am a newbie anymore at all, but I am still learning and currently from my experience I feel scum will always want to act a little shadier. Right now s.o.g. should know we have some degree of trust, and I get a scummy feeling when a person still tries to be to modest.

Not making any claims period, just would feel better if s.o.g. threw a vote on himself as well since he sees we support him.

[evilevilmatt]

I'm content to have either semioldguy or diamond have it. I'd prefer semi, so

gun:semioldguy

Why would you be with diamond having it?

[evilevilmatt]

EBWOP Why would you be ok* with diamond having it?

[kabenon007]

Via semioldguy's reasoning, a randomly generated number by the mod.

[evilevilmatt]

Right.

It's been a long day at work I think my brain is shutting down early

[semioldguy]

I am not going to put a gun vote on myself, and it only partially has to do with integrity. I am not going to change the vote onto myself also because it would go against the reason I made my vote in the first place. Though I would not be completely opposed to the idea of the gun coming to me, I still think it is a good idea for the gun to stay where it is. For now my vote stands.

[Diamondilium]

Actually. I can agree with that. I see a flaw in your logic,
Any other choice would be random, but we -know- diamond is not responsible enough. His very first post proved that without a doubt.

We need someone to have it though and I would gladly give it to semioldguy as they give me a very pro-town vibe right now. And they have to be more responsible then Diamond.

Ok, this is ridiculous. I made one post that indicated I was inattentive and suddenly your assuming I'm irresponsible enough not to even be considered for the gun. One post is not enough to make a judgment call like that on my play style; if you had a collection of my posts to examine, then I would certainly be ok with your thoughts. If you really want to get a feel for how I play then look at games I've been in. I've only been in one so far; so here's the link. I encourage all to read or skim through it.

Anyway, this whole the mod chose a random person thing is illogical. Our gun shot is essentially our lynch and there's a reason why we just don't randomly choose our lynch. We would be better off in terms of giving the gun to a) people who are going to kill people we suspect or b) that read townie and are capable enough to think situations through and nail scum. Sure the scum can influence who gets the gun, but we can determine what makes a good candidate ourselves and plus we can try to see through scum's ploys and catch them in the process. Randomly selecting a gun owner won't reveal nearly as much information.

^again protown.

Give this guy the gun please.

A few questions:
a) Are you serious or joking around? It appears to me that you are serious but clarification is necessary.
b) If you are serious, do you feel like we should give semioldguy the gun now? If so why now?
c) You said before that

Gun : Semioldguy

Protown reasoning for trying to stick with the mods random vote.
I prefer not to try to control the vig though, so fire away.

Shame : everyone else making a random number vote

. Own upto your votes, dont blame the random numbers generator.

Also Lowell's logic is pretty awesome but I will choose to ignore it.

Do you agree that we shouldn't tell the vig to shoot or that we should stick with the mods random vote. If you are saying that you agree to stick with the mods random vote, then why are you voting for semioldguy and not the mod's random selection?

[Diamondilium]

EBWOP:
I forgot to mention that I find it too early to decide on who should get the gun. I would rather have more to analyze before making a decision like that.

[Gateway]

I do not need more. Here is a break down of what I see. Feel free to correct me if I have the mechanics wrong.

-We have one person with a gun. Decided this week.
-After the "Gun Phase" We do normal lynching.
-Lynching proceeds as normal with the single exception, that the person with the gun can at any time kill another player.

Now with these facts we know the gun needs to be where we can trust. I completely agree. This is day one though and we know nothing yet. So that is not a completely viable option.

So all we can do is say where do we think it should not go. Diamond, you missed the opening post... the opening post of our day... I mean... the -very- first post that starts off our day. If you managed to miss that, you are not the best person for the gun. The simple fact you seem to want to have the responsibility when you can see your own error worries me. Would I want it, absolutely not, I am not experienced enough not to fall for some trap and accidentally kill someone.

So names that don't deserve it so far really are
-Gateway - Lack of experience means not knowledgeable to aim the gun.
-Diamondilium - Fell behind on the -very first post-, not who we need with a loaded gun.

[Diamondilium]

I do not need more. Here is a break down of what I see. Feel free to correct me if I have the mechanics wrong.

-We have one person with a gun. Decided this week.
-After the "Gun Phase" We do normal lynching.
-Lynching proceeds as normal with the single exception, that the person with the gun can at any time kill another player.

Now with these facts we know the gun needs to be where we can trust. I completely agree. This is day one though and we know nothing yet. So that is not a completely viable option.

So all we can do is say where do we think it should not go. Diamond, you missed the opening post... the opening post of our day... I mean... the -very- first post that starts off our day. If you managed to miss that, you are not the best person for the gun.

The simple fact you seem to want to have the responsibility when you can see your own error worries me.

Would I want it, absolutely not, I am not experienced enough not to fall for some trap and accidentally kill someone.

So names that don't deserve it so far really are
-Gateway - Lack of experience means not knowledgeable to aim the gun.
-Diamondilium - Fell behind on the -very first post-, not who we need with a loaded gun.

I don't believe the mod said that we would be having a normal after the gun is given but he never said we weren't having a lynch. I assumed that electing a gun owner would act as lynch, but I can see it working as essentially electing a power role.

Mod are we lynching after the gun owner is selected?

Did you not read or look over my other game? All you did here was reiterate what you have said before, and as I said before, that one post is not nearly enough to judge me by.
Bolded:Where did I say that I should be the gun owner? This is a misrepresentation. In fact, I even posted and said that I wasn't sure who should get the gun. I acknowledge that I was being inattentive, but you are greatly overexaggerating on the post and assuming way too much about my playstyle from it.

[gorckat]

Mod are we lynching after the gun owner is selected?

Yes. Day one will be at most 3 weeks long (all deadline lengths are in the rules), with at most one week for GUN votes and the balance for lynching.

[Gateway]

You have a gun, and one bullet. You may point the loaded gun at another survivor during the day, when you are all gathered in the common area, and pull the trigger. This will kill them.

To kill someone, post

KILL: PLAYERNAME

in the game thread. This power will not work after a majority of votes to lynch has been placed, even if I haven't counted the votes. It will not work after a deadline to lynch expires.

[/color]

It is clearly the mod letting us elect who gets this role before the lynch. If you yourself found it unclear, why do you want the gun?

Don't you feel it should go to a player we at least feel won't make a mistake based on a misread?

I myself don't want it, so why do you Diamond?

[gorckat]

GUN Count 1

semioldguy (3):

evilevilmatt, Gateway, kabenon007

Lowell (2):

Lowell, Musher333

Shinnen_no_Me(1):

Herodotus

Diamondilium (1):

semioldguy

Not Gunning (5):

Amished, Diamondilium, OozingGolfBall, Rishi, Shinnen_no_Me

[semioldguy]

I also have another idea about the gun to throw out there. We can treat the gun as an extra lynch for Day One. What this would do is the person we decide to lynch, instead of someone hammering that person, the gun owner can just shoot them, keeping our lynch and keeping it from going to night. We can then use the now dead person's identity and the previous posts/votes in the day to look at how people acted and defended, etc. We would still have the real lynch for the day to then get more information.

What this would essentially do is skip the first night cycle, allowing us to get in two lynches before scum can start night killing. This gives us more information earlier to look back on as the game progresses. It keeps our elected power role from being night killed before using his daykill and wasting our efforts to get the gun to the right person. Also the gun owner could agree to go through with shooting the first lynchee instead of someone hammering and if that player refuses we can just lynch the person with the gun instead, ensuring that the gun isn't intentionally misused later.

What does everyone think of this as a possibility?

[Diamondilium]

You have a gun, and one bullet. You may point the loaded gun at another survivor during the day, when you are all gathered in the common area, and pull the trigger. This will kill them.

To kill someone, post

KILL: PLAYERNAME

in the game thread. This power will not work after a majority of votes to lynch has been placed, even if I haven't counted the votes. It will not work after a deadline to lynch expires.

[/color]

It is clearly the mod letting us elect who gets this role before the lynch. If you yourself found it unclear, why do you want the gun?

Don't you feel it should go to a player we at least feel won't make a mistake based on a misread?

I myself don't want it, so why do you Diamond?

Um I was asking whether we were given the option of lynching right after the gun owner was selected instead of it going to night... that's not clearly stated. What you quoted merely explains the mechanics of the gun.

Of course I think we shouldn't pick a player who is going to misread, but just because a player misreads once I am not going to assume the player based on that one post but rather a collection of them.

Once again your misrepresenting me, where did I say that I wanted it? I even stated that I had not decided on who I thought should get the gun.

I like semioldguy's plan. It puts the mafia at a disadvantage; if we hit scum with both the gun shot and the lynch we could seriously cripple them. In addition your plan deals with some of the pitfalls the gun owner ship could have: an uncooperative gun owner, purposeful misuse and prevents the gun owner from being nightkilled and thus prevents the ability from being wasted.

[Herodotus]

I disagree with EvilEvilMatt's statements that Semioldguy is pro-town on the basis of the things he points out. Not that I find SOG scummy, but:
1. It is possible to generate random numbers on MafiaScum. There is a "dice" function in the forum software, so random numbers can be trusted here if they're done correctly. If we wanted to reassign the gun randomly, we could do so in a way that would let everyone feel confident that the choice was really random. Just to provide an example,

Original Roll String: 1d12

1 12-Sided Dice: (6) = 6

2. That said, I don't think a random selection, or using the mod's random selection, is as good as deciding for ourselves. Voting patterns and arguments are our primary means of finding the scum, and SOG's earlier suggestion gives up that opportunity. That's not pro-town.
3. I agree with post 44. With the understanding that the person who receives the gun deserves some discretion of their own (after all, the scum will be among the people voting, while the recipient of the gun is ostensibly the most pro-town,) they should mostly follow the majority so that we effectively have an extra lynch.

that one post is not nearly enough to judge me by.

True. Keep in mind, though, that there are a lot of players out there who consistently play poorly. Your first post made it look like you might be one of them. With the exception of not understanding that we can lynch after that (why else would there be votes?) your later posts give me more confidence that you can figure out what's going on.

At this point, EEM is the only player I much prefer not receive the gun, as either he's buddying to SOG, or his towndar is poorly calibrated.

[Gateway]

YES! semioldguy is a genius and so I absolutely want him to have it. Let us just get rid of this worry. We give it to s.o.g., and when we will treat the lynch as needing one less. (so putting a person at L-1 is a hammer) the moment they get L-1 you use the gun. Then we are done with it.


As a side note, if a person gets L-1 and someone hammers before semi can shoot, we lynch the hammerer D2.

[Gateway]

Also @ Diamond: I do not think you are playing poorly in any way. I just (before semi's recent plan) wanted it in the hands of someone that doesn't miss a single word. It is to powerful. As it stands now, forget I said anything and we should go with semi's plan.

You can agree with that plan and join us in giving semi the gun then, right Diamond?

[semioldguy]

Voting patterns and arguments are our primary means of finding the scum, and SOG's earlier suggestion gives up that opportunity.

How has my suggestion given up the opportunity to see voting patterns and arguments? It certainly hasn't since I made the suggestion and it's barely been a page since then. If anything, it has helped cause some people to take sides of arguments. If you look you can see people giving their own opinions on things, taking sides on arguments and voting how they think they should vote; all after I made my suggestion.