Newbie 762 - OhGodMyVillage - Game Over

[Scien]

I don't

have

to do anything Santos. Would you mind saying something about my questions to you in post 292? It would help me understand your position better.

Ok, to PapaZ on reread:

I still don't think it is as plain and dry as you are claiming, that his vote was purely arbitrary. Even this quote on his vote suggests otherwise:

Maybe this will stir up our discussion a bit, PZ.

I think you know the reasons of my suspicion, I discussed them with you.

I see order of events as this:
A) You and SirD are going back and forth over each others arguments. Both seem to have some points, and I'm not satisfied that the discussion was fully over before B happened.
B) Santos does his first misplay, claims, and pretty much stops the town while we deal with that.
C) People discuss that for a while, Santos misplays again, this time wanting to replace out of pressure.
D) After the town deals with that, SirD votes you with the above quote.

I still think he was trying to start that discussion up again. I believe he might have had questions out to you about your post. However on reread it looks like he was mainly in defensive mode in your last two rounds of exchanges. SirD? What was your remaining points against PapaZ? I hate to be a bastard but could you drop them out for me?

[Santos]

Scien, why are you playing mediator and not scum hunter?

[Scien]

Hmm. Why don't you answer my questions, instead of criticizing me...

I have questions to you at the moment. You are not answering. I would like to hear what you have to say.

PapaZ, has asked me questions about my current view of the game. I had to answer. Mediate or not, I have to answer questions that people pose to me. Cry all you want at that.

[sirdanilot]

Yes, I truly do because... that's what you said. You're suspicious of me because of A and B but you voted for me to stir up discussion. I'm not making this up man, I just quoted it for you.

Obviously I voted you because I suspect you, and the stirring up discussion was an additional reason to that. How is that not obvious? I almost always vote out of suspicion, rather than pressuring, or at least in combination with pressure. Pure pressure votes are quite rare in my play (although I don't exclude anything).

Yeah, and it really looks like what you did.

Santos: Yo, sirdanilot sucks. Vote. Does he ever do anything?
PZ: Yeah, he voted these dudes.
sirdanilot: OMG bandwagon you guyz r scum. Vote.

You voted me and not Santos for the same "reason" you dropped voting him yesterday:

My reasons to suspect Santos aren't nearly the same as my reasons to vote you. Yours are the ones from the discussion, and the dismissing of votes, and Santos' are the earlier reasons about dismissing a page of content etc. Do I need to reiterate?

Since a Santos lynch is not happening today,

I have decided to move my vote to my second largest suspect.

(emphasis mine) I think this sentence is really interesting btw.

Obviously it is, without context. Without context, even I would immediately jump to vote the person who said that.

Of course, I said that after Santos claimed cop, and I, as well as everyone else, decided that Santos would not be lynched that day.

Ripping stuff out of context is a scum tell.

(1)I'm not sure what there is left to debate. (2)You all will

have

to take my word for it that I am the cop, the doc is dead, and a mafia goon and roleblocker are left. (3)There are no other options even though a few of you want to believe I'm scum (or are trying to pin me as scum, but that would be pretty bold of you to do so).

(4)Guys, take my word for it and believe me that I am the cop. I am utterly useless in my role now, but that does not mean I'm going to quit scum hunting. I have a quite useful ability still.

Blahblahblah what a scummy and useless post, Santos.
1. Oh? Now that's easy. Now you don't have to participate in discussion anymore and contribute!
2. I don't have to do anything, good sir. Stop pretending you are confirmed.
3. There are in fact other options; you claimed cop as scum (god knows why), there is no cop in the game, and we have setup D (2 goons 1 doc). You can claim roleblocked all you want. There's also the scenario of there in fact being a cop, but it being not you.
4. This is just blatant appeal to emotion 'take my word for it and believe me'. Blahblah. Sure, you can scum hunt, but so can we all so that doesn't make you any more special than the rest of us.

I do think your one liner directed at Scien was quite good though. I appreciate Scien clearing things up but it's not scum hunting.

[Papa Zito]

Yes, I truly do because... that's what you said. You're suspicious of me because of A and B but you voted for me to stir up discussion. I'm not making this up man, I just quoted it for you.

Obviously I voted you because I suspect you, and the stirring up discussion was an additional reason to that. How is that not obvious? I almost always vote out of suspicion, rather than pressuring, or at least in combination with pressure. Pure pressure votes are quite rare in my play (although I don't exclude anything).

Then why didn't you vote me earlier? I've already asked this question once (admittedly, to Scien) and haven't gotten an answer. It doesn't fit with the style of your play earlier in the game, i.e. voting immediately on a suspicion vs. airing suspicion, having discussion and then voting on the result. Does your style typically change like this in a game or was I some sort of special case?

My reasons to suspect Santos aren't nearly the same as my reasons to vote you. Yours are the ones from the discussion, and the dismissing of votes, and Santos' are the earlier reasons about dismissing a page of content etc. Do I need to reiterate?

Your reasons may be different but it was Santos and I talking about your voting history that started this little tiff. Don't cloud the issue please.

Since a Santos lynch is not happening today,

I have decided to move my vote to my second largest suspect.

Obviously it is, without context. Without context, even I would immediately jump to vote the person who said that.

Of course, I said that after Santos claimed cop, and I, as well as everyone else, decided that Santos would not be lynched that day.

Ripping stuff out of context is a scum tell.

It's funny you say that, because you've done just the same thing. You isolated that one statement out of context so that you can talk about isolating things out of context.

Lawl. Scien is right. We really are talking past one another.

Tell you what. Let's make this easier. You have suspicions of me, fine. Air them here in a cohesive post so that I can answer them in a cohesive manner. The banner-waving about "I have suspicions I have suspicions I have suspicions and you won't answer meeeeeee" is getting tiresome. I have a feeling I've answered them all already anyway but let's be sure. Plus I get the feeling that we're wasting time while the real mafia are off in a corner giggling somewhere.

[Papa Zito]

BTW...

PapaZ, has asked me questions about my current view of the game. I had to answer.

You don't

have

to, but I appreciate that you did.

Also, Scien's "mediation" is helpful if it prevents two townies from strangling each other while giving mafia room to lurk. And I'll reiterate what I said Day 1... I think at least one if not both of our mafia are amongst the lurkers. If the Santos claim is true (which at this point I more-or-less believe it is, even though each post he makes just seems to hurt his case more) then that means the town power roles have all been revealed, which

in turn

means that the only ones who have a legitimate reason to lurk are the mafia. Holy crap big sentence.

[Scien]

I do think your one liner directed at Scien was quite good though. I appreciate Scien clearing things up but it's not scum hunting.

Meh. I don't appreciate it. Especially when I have questions out to two people out of the 4 currently active. And I've expressed concern over MM's play.

Here I will recap in hopes that I will get an answer THIS time I post them:

[SirDan has] been against me this whole mafia and has not tried to find another person guilty in the game. [...] Can anyone find anyone else he's been suspicious of during this game?

He's had three votes (that mattered) this game. Mastin, you, and me.

So either he is very apprehensive about his votes after he makes them, or he is waiting for a bandwagon to build on those votes. So far, he has voted against the town doctor, cop and now you. I don't trust this at all. I'm not saying you're town completely, but his track record for suspicion is more in favor for a scum's lucky pick of power roles as opposed to appearing a pro town scum hunter. Am I wrong?

So much 'huh?' here. First you claim that SirD has been against you all game, then quickly concede that you are wrong. What?
Second you seem to be claiming that he has simply been vote hopping and leaving is vote elsewhere not for long. Really? You don't think he was investigating the people that he was on? Do you not think his conversations with those people seemed to have a defined end (minus Papa Z, which I think is on going). If he is using his vote as a tool in investigation, would he not act exactly as he is doing?
Third, him voting for people that in your eyes are power roles, when he had no information on the power roles is scummy in itself? Huh? How? Even pretending he is scum, luck is not a scum tell.

I still think he was trying to start that discussion up again. I believe he might have had questions out to you about your post. However on reread it looks like he was mainly in defensive mode in your last two rounds of exchanges. SirD? What was your remaining points against PapaZ? I hate to be a bastard but could you drop them out for me?

I'll expand on this last one since you might be avoiding answering just because you think I am lazy. When I went back and reread, your discussion was going on fairly nicely until about two rounds before the Santos catastrophe. Those last two rounds, you posed no new points, and just answered PapaZ's concerns. I appreciate that your vote was probably just to get the town back on track again after we dealt with Santos, however if we continue that discussion you were having from where we left off, it seems like you had nothing new to pursue.

Would you say what you are still dissatisfied about please? Maybe we can get some real content going in this current debate, as opposed to this current harping about who's avoiding who.

Tell you what. Let's make this easier. You have suspicions of me, fine. Air them here in a cohesive post so that I can answer them in a cohesive manner. The banner-waving about "I have suspicions I have suspicions I have suspicions and you won't answer meeeeeee" is getting tiresome. I have a feeling I've answered them all already anyway but let's be sure. Plus I get the feeling that we're wasting time while the real mafia are off in a corner giggling somewhere.

Sigh. QFT (quoted for truth).

Oh and to the town. Getting this discussion back on track is a form of scum hunting. These people are very willing to talk about their play, and everything they say helps the town. But I'm fairly convinced both are pro-town anyway, and nothing anyone has said so far clashes with what I think expected townie behavior would be.

Santos on the other hand, every post of his sounds horribly scummy. Which slightly scares me, as the scum can use that if he is truly telling the truth.

Where are the inactives?

[Henrz]

Quite a useful ability??? But your going to be RoleBlocked or killed!

[Henrz]

Eh... Whoops, that was refering too post 299... Didn't look at the next page >.<

[MiteyMouse]

Santos on the other hand, every post of his sounds horribly scummy. Which slightly scares me, as the scum can use that if he is truly telling the truth.

I agree with this Scien. That and him assuming that no counter claim makes him confirmed is looking bad. I really really want to believe him but, it is gatting harder and harder!

[Papa Zito]

Santos on the other hand, every post of his sounds horribly scummy. Which slightly scares me, as the scum can use that if he is truly telling the truth.

I agree with this Scien. That and him assuming that no counter claim makes him confirmed is looking bad. I really really want to believe him but, it is gatting harder and harder!

Active lurking fail.

[Santos]

Henrz, why don't you think I still have a useful ability; if any?

[Henrz]

Do you mean your cop ability or Scum Finding? Because if there is a Role Blocker, then you will always be Role Blocked or you will be killed tonight. If, on the otherhand, you're talking about active scum finding, then that is still useful, but not in the same way.

[Papa Zito]

Wow. Game died. Let's get moving again. y halo thar MiteyMouse

This is not good news. So we now have a dead Doctor and a possible Cop that has been and presumably will continue to be role blocked? So now we have 2 Scum and for all intents and purposes 5 vanilla Town.

0 content. Santos.

Santos...I do think you are telling the truth but, Sirdan is right, you are by no means confirmed. Yes, there has not been a counter claim but, that doesn't confirm you.

0 content. Santos!

Santos on the other hand, every post of his sounds horribly scummy. Which slightly scares me, as the scum can use that if he is truly telling the truth.

I agree with this Scien. That and him assuming that no counter claim makes him confirmed is looking bad. I really really want to believe him but, it is gatting harder and harder!

0 content. SANTOS!

Come on MiteyMouse. You've got a fairly unsubstantiated xRECKONERx vote, a fairly unsubstantiated Santos vote, Papa Zito vs. sirdanilot II, lots of Scien posts... and all you can comment on is the cop issue? Really? And you can't even add anything to the conversation, just agree with people? Really??

You're actively lurking. You're posting just enough to maintain a slight presence in the game while not adding anything. Like I said earlier, the ones who have anything to gain by hiding at this point are scum, and that's exactly what you're doing.

vote: MiteyMouse

[MiteyMouse]

I'm sorry...my in laws have been in and out all week. I have the day off tomorrow and I will post something more substancial!

[Santos]

Do you mean your cop ability or Scum Finding?

Neither.

[Scien]

Neither.

Ooooooh kay? You didn't mean your scum hunting ability? What exactly did you mean then?

Did you want to answer any of the questions I had early over some of your points? Or are you going to continue ignoring them? I'm about to vote you since you are apparently refusing to talk on this issue.

[sirdanilot]

Sorry for my inactivity, it's a national holiday in the Netherlands today. I'll address the papa zito questions etc. tomorrow

[Santos]

Did you want to answer any of the questions I had early over some of your points? Or are you going to continue ignoring them? I'm about to vote you since you are apparently refusing to talk on this issue.

I will answer them. No doubt. But I have more in mind to hear from the others as well instead of just talking with you.

[Scien]

I will answer them. No doubt. But I have more in mind to hear from the others as well instead of just talking with you.

Alright. Fair enough. Until that time,

Vote: Santos

.

Again. It's not an either or. You can ask your questions to others while you answer incoming ones. This is smelling too much to me like avoidance over a relatively small issue.

[Santos]

I think you're just aggravated over something so little.

[Santos]

Oh, @ Henrz, even though my investigative requests at night will most likely be roleblocked now, I can still scum hunt and apply a vote on who I find most scummy.

RE: Sirdanilot voted me for, IMO, half ass reasons and when Mitey Mouse replaced in he made a ridiculous (and now looking back, incredibly scummy post) statement like 'pile more votes on Santos, he's scum!' But why I was unhappy with Sirdanilot because it seemed too much of a coincidence that he was applying votes on two pro town power roles (1 confirmed of course, and myself not confirmed).

Post 313 about Mitey Mouse really sticks out now. I really would like to hear Mitey Mouse's explanation of Papa's accusation...

FoS: Mitey Mouse

because its not looking good for your case now.

@ Scien, anything else?

[Papa Zito]

Did you want to answer any of the questions I had early over some of your points? Or are you going to continue ignoring them? I'm about to vote you since you are apparently refusing to talk on this issue.

I will answer them. No doubt. But I have more in mind to hear from the others as well instead of just talking with you.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one am paying close attention to your conversations with other players, even if I'm not actively involved. Any information or insight you can provide on any of the active topics is valuable... you may have seen something we haven't. And it may not be valuable just now but also later on when we look back on this day. So it would be nice for you to answer Scien's questions, and also give some feedback on anything else that's going on.

[Scien]

@ Scien, anything else?

Yep. Everything I asked before. You haven't explained any of it yet. Here it is again for you:

[SirDan has] been against me this whole mafia and has not tried to find another person guilty in the game. [...] Can anyone find anyone else he's been suspicious of during this game?

He's had three votes (that mattered) this game. Mastin, you, and me.

So either he is very apprehensive about his votes after he makes them, or he is waiting for a bandwagon to build on those votes. So far, he has voted against the town doctor, cop and now you. I don't trust this at all. I'm not saying you're town completely, but his track record for suspicion is more in favor for a scum's lucky pick of power roles as opposed to appearing a pro town scum hunter. Am I wrong?

So much 'huh?' here. First you claim that SirD has been against you all game, then quickly concede that you are wrong. What?
Second you seem to be claiming that he has simply been vote hopping and leaving is vote elsewhere not for long. Really? You don't think he was investigating the people that he was on? Do you not think his conversations with those people seemed to have a defined end (minus Papa Z, which I think is on going). If he is using his vote as a tool in investigation, would he not act exactly as he is doing?
Third, him voting for people that in your eyes are power roles, when he had no information on the power roles is scummy in itself? Huh? How? Even pretending he is scum, luck is not a scum tell.

[Scien]

Oh and sorry I forgot this one, its newer:

Do you mean your cop ability or Scum Finding?

Neither.

Ooooooh kay? You didn't mean your scum hunting ability? What exactly did you mean then?

[E]ven though my investigative requests at night will most likely be roleblocked now, I can still scum hunt and apply a vote on who I find most scummy.

Isn't that scum hunting? Didn't you just tell Henrz that that's not what you are talking about? I believe this one is just a misunderstanding between you two, but I would like you to clear up my confusion with your own words.