Mini 778 - Inventor Mafia (OVER)

[Riceballtail]

Prodding the following: LeakingGoofball, LunaLouise, ZEEnon
Probably replacing: Kabenon007

Vote Count:

AceMarksman (4) - Semioldguy, ZEEnon, Zazier, Tarhalindur
Darox (1) - AceMarksman
Empking (1) - LeakingGoofball
Farside22 (1) - Empking
Kabenon007 (0) -
LeakingGoofball (1) - Farside22
LunaLouise (0) -
Semioldguy (0) -
Tarhalindur (0) -
Zazier (0) -
ZEEnon (2) - Kabenon007, Darox
Zwetschenwasser (0) -

Tarhalindur is on V/LA through the 15th

[farside22]

I will try and get to what Tar asked of me this week. Hopefully Wednesday.
Thanks

[zwetschenwasser]

Happy scumday, emp.

[Riceballtail]

Mastin replaces Kabenon007.

[semioldguy]

Welcome Mastin!

[Mastin]

<--Has read every page.

I'm withholding a vote from Ace for one reason:

While his current meta doesn't match the meta I have on him from 742 by my memory, this was some time ago, so
1: My memory might be off,
And
2: His playstyle might have changed.

He recently gave a link to all of his completed games; I'll read them to see if his play here matches any of his previous play as town (and more important, if it matches as scum).

[Tarhalindur]

Hi Mastin!

Funny you'd mention meta, since I've been trying something new over the last couple of days (I've had time, but I've been using to investigate things for this game rather than post): total isolation reads. In other words, I've been going back and reading a player's posts in isolation in EVERY game they have ever been in in which their alignment has been revealed, seeing what their alignment actually was, and figuring out what that player's supertells, if any, are.

I've finished or mostly finished reads on four players so far: ZazieR (finished on Sunday before post 210), AceMarksman, farside22, and Darox.

ZazieR has a fairly clear supertell (I was running about 80%-90% accurate on her during the isolation reads), but it takes her some time to really exhibit it. I'm not going to tell you exactly what that tell is - not yet, at least - because I don't want to give ZazieR the easy path to trying to subvert meta.

AceMarksman has NO games where his alignment has been revealed as scum, which makes him harder to meta. I've got a lean on him based on past meta, but I want to see him post some more to be sure.

Farside22's playstyle is protean enough that she has no meta at all - she's stated in the past that she likes to experiment, but I think she may also be actively working to make herself difficult if not impossible to read. Her most recent shift (from about three small games that finished about when Medieval did) WAS a fairly aggressive playstyle (from an earlier lurkish one), which is not consistent with her play here, but I wouldn't lynch based on that. I DO want her dead before endgame unless we can get rolebased on her, just like any other player I consider largely unreadable. The question is, when should we do that?

I need to go through Darox's past games with a finer-toothed comb - I'm pretty sure there IS a supertell in there, but I haven't found it yet.

I'll be looking over more players as I get time.

[Mastin]

I would highly recommend, for your sanity, Tar, to not try on me. There's a reason I've been nominated for the title Unabridged, and a good portion of that comes from my older games. In more recent times, I've learned to hold back somewhat, but still, if you plan on reading all games where their alignment is known, bad idea to do anything but skim over mine.

Ace: Darn you having not been scum in any completed games. D: That makes my job all that much harder.
Still, though, I'll do a check of his games.

[Tarhalindur]

@ tar:
1)AtE is an acronym for Apeal to Emotion.

Ah, now I see. And I see the AtE in that Farside post too.

2) I don't find Farside particularly scummy, just that one post rubbed me the wrong way.

Okay, that makes sense.

@wishy washy: I tend to use seemingly a lot. I don't know exactly what a player is thinking when they make a post, I only know what it

seems

like they were doing. It isn't because I'm trying to be on the fence about a player, it's just how I write.

1) How did I make my statement on ZEEnon easy to backtrack on? I don't see it.

ZEE has been acting rather wierd. His posts have been rather opportunistic and jumpy. I would like a fuller explanation of his vote,

if the above isn't what he was referring to. ZEEnon, was what I quoted the "catch" you were referring to?

The underlined part is what I saw as a potential means for backtracking.

2) Why are you pushing me to make a vote? Previously in other games I have been throwing around my vote recklessly, and I'm trying to stop this.

Why is throwing your vote around recklessly a problem? See, I'm a fan of voting the player you think is most likely to be scum unless an extenuating circumstance (read: LyLo or similar) says otherwise. It's too easy for scum to get away with "I'm going to push this wagon without voting, so that I won't be held accountable by voting analysis".

Note to self for future games: it might work better if I didn't comment on that tell until Day 2, when scum have already had a chance to do just that. Silly Tarhalindur, remember to wait to capitalize on the scumtells.

Your last point is completely unfair. How are you saying that I don't find Darox scum? I've been getting scum vibes from him the entire game (requested PBPA coming shortly). Please note the case I made against him earlier in the game after his opportunistic vote right after the RVS.

1) The reason you stated for you vote when you voted Darox was that he failed to answer a question; furthermore, you said in that post that you would unvote Darox if he answered your question:

vote: Darox

Answer the question and this will be removed.

Just because something is obvious to you doesn't mean it's obvious to the rest of us. Enlighten us please.

I have difficulty seeing how this is consistent with VOTING Darox because you think he's scum. (I

can

think of one way this makes sense if you're town, but I'm not going to reveal it until after you post your own explanation.)

Also you seem to find me scummy for not voting a player I make a post against, but then find me scummy for voting? how does this work?

Because your stated reason for voting was to force Darox to answer a question, NOT because you thought he was scum (it may have been A reason, but it was not the STATED reason).

Again, I can think of a way this makes sense (took me a bit to think of it, too), but I'll wait for you to explain further before I post it.

Response to ZazieR coming ASAP.

[Tarhalindur]

I would highly recommend, for your sanity, Tar, to not try on me. There's a reason I've been nominated for the title Unabridged, and a good portion of that comes from my older games. In more recent times, I've learned to hold back somewhat, but still, if you plan on reading all games where their alignment is known, bad idea to do anything but skim over mine.

Ace: Darn you having not been scum in any completed games. D: That makes my job all that much harder.
Still, though, I'll do a check of his games.

1) My procedure on reads is to skim first, read more closely if necessary. And my skimming/gut read has been more accurate than the close read/logic read of late (Vi/Mafia 87, scotmany12/Medieval, Isacc/Mind Screw Gaiden all come to mind).

2) Sanity? *breaks down laughing*

So no, I'm not seeing any problem here at all.

[Tarhalindur]

Second paragraph: Note that AceMarkman refers to zeenon as "weird" instead of "scummy", and how he makes it really easy to backtrack. That's wishy-washy.

So you do note this, and mention it as scummy. But you didn't mention the easy backtracking of this post
Why's that?

Because I read it as a justification - a contrived one, yes, but still a justification instead of a backtrack (note that her post was explaining how her previous comment was consistent with her play in recent games). See post 211:

I don't but there is very little I go on with meta and people. Some people meta is justified while others are mostly all over the place and I can't say that meta is ever really accurate.

Kevin showed me your post which mentioned me in Medieval Mafia when you posted it. This does however show that you use meta, and Mini 731 also disproves your statement. LAL?

FoS Farside

@Ace: Post 154?

Highlight and underline in bold some people and some situations.

Gut read says this justification is contrived, but I'll do a second farside meta read when I have time in order to double-check.

More importantly, farside: All of your posts have been either random posts or defense. Who do you suspect, and why? Give detailed reasons, please.

Darox and ZazieR need to start posting longer cases.

I've stated many reasons already why I think Ace is scum. I'll post them in the following post then if you mean that. But why did you ask us?

Because I'm trying to get a solid read on the two of you (especially since you're both pretty damn important to how I'm reading the game state), and I haven't seen enough of you yet to consider my read solid. I have a weak read on both of you, but I'm not going to say what it is just yet (I fully intend to do so before the end of Day 1, and I don't want Day 1 to end before I feel comfortable doing so) - that would be counterproductive right now.

[Tarhalindur]

Third paragraph: "seemingly", "seems". Again, note the wishy-washy, people.

I don't like post 122 (Ace)
It

seems

like you were trying to test the waters of a SOG wagon before committing yourself to it.

What's your reason for not mentioning my post, while I also used 'seem'?

Strange that you only attack Ace for 'backtracking', but not me or Farside for her post as I already said. Why's that?

Maybe yours didn't feel nearly as wishy-washy as his did.

Or, I decided that now wasn't the time to bring up that post.

One of these is true. Probably. I'll elaborate on which later.

[ZEEnon]

Post coming soon!

[Empking]

Note to self for future games: it might work better if I didn't comment on that tell until Day 2, when scum have already had a chance to do just that. Silly Tarhalindur, remember to wait to capitalize on the scumtells.

.

What is the point of that?

[LeakingGoofball]

I don't like this post

That's Darox for you. I've seen him do it as a townie, as scum and as a survivor.

ZazieR here seems to just be simply saying "Darox does this, end of", yet I don't think that is true. I think it was just saying that it's a null tell, but there is never a null tell, there's only tells which people don't think about hard enough to differentiate between the two.

[AceMarksman]

Gah, mastin are you stalking me now?

And I only played that way in 742 because you posted wall after wall after wall of text.

[AceMarksman]

and if anyone else wants them:

Open 126 Open 138 Newbie 760 Newbie 742 Newbie 733 Newbie 711

[Mastin]

Nah, Ace. It's just that the title of this game interested me, and I recognized the names of...well, all (minus Darox) of the active players in the game, from spectating/playing many games, not to mention, the mod as well. I couldn't resist the chance to play.

And I only played that way in 742 because you posted wall after wall after wall of text.

Well, then, let's see if you hold up to me again. I'll be posting a wall soon enough.

[AceMarksman]

I'll be posting a wall soon enough.

Which, in all likelihood, will be aimed at me, so I'll have to post a wall, and then you'll wall me back etc etc. Vicious cycle.

[Mastin]

When you feed a man a fish, you give him food for one day. (Initial Posts)
When you teach a man to fish, you give him food for life. (Responding)

Fuel the beast, and be devoured,

Other such quotes along such a nature.

In other words, I'll relish the challenge.

[Mastin]

Ace--
Posts: 42 (lol)

Average Post Length: One paragraph. (Many one-liners and some multiple-paragraph posts nullify each other)
Average Post Content: Mediocre
Last Post: Today.
Activity level: High.
Stylistically consistent?: Yes.

Darox--
Posts: 15
Average Post Length: Two lines. (Many one-liners, a few three-liners, several quotes, roughly averages out to two lines)
Average Post Content: Low-Mediocre.
Last Post: Two days ago.
Activity Level: Low-Mediocre.
Stylistically consistent?: ?

Empking--
Posts: 14
Average Post Length: One line.
Average Post Content:

low

[/b].
Last Post: Today
Activity Level: Low.
Stylistically consistent?: Yes?

[Mastin]

D'oh. Wrong button. Submitted that before I had finished it. :/

[Mastin]

Edits By the way of Art, Posting:

I clicked submit, instead of 'go'. Bah. Well, ignore the post there; it wasn't finished. Full post coming soon.

[Mastin]

Ace--
Posts: 42 (lol)

Average Post Length: One paragraph. (Many one-liners and some multiple-paragraph posts nullify each other)
Average Post Content: Mediocre
Last Post: Today.
Activity level: High.
Stylistically consistent?: Yes.

Darox--
Posts: 15
Average Post Length: Two lines. (Many one-liners, a few three-liners, several quotes, roughly averages out to two lines)
Average Post Content: Low-Mediocre.
Last Post: Two days ago.
Activity Level: Low-Mediocre.
Stylistically consistent?: ? (research required)

Empking--
Posts: 14
Average Post Length:

One

line

.
Average Post Content:

low

.
Last Post: Today
Activity Level: Low.
Stylistically consistent?: Yes? (citation needed)

Farside22--
Posts: 13
Average Post Length: A little over half a paragraph. (Many good paragraphs per post, but recently, one-liners)
Average Post Content: Mediocre.
Last Post: Yesterday.
Activity Level: Mediocre.
Stylistically consistent?: [...] (hard to read)

[Mastin]

AHG! I JUST DID IT AGAIN! :/

Meet Mastin, the Misclick Master.