Mini 778 - Inventor Mafia (OVER)

[lobstermania]

I love how Mastin spends 8 pages explaining how we can't meta him and shouldn't try to, and then tries to justify the case Ace made against him by referring us to previous games.
Mastin, I didn't omgus vote you. I voted you because of posts like #421. Your alignment in previous games has nothing to do with the role you were given in this one.

I really, really want to see what my box does. I don't care if I'm night-killed because of it, or if I am lynched in the following days; I want to see what it does. (But, well, I don't want to be lynched, either. I have an unlynched-as-town record. I want it to stand.)

I really hope this isn't a serious point you're trying to make. Because it's one of the few defenses you provide that relate specifically to this thread.

Also, I understand you are suspicious of ZEEnon, and that's fine. But as much as you're going to hate this (and disregard it) ZEEnon was just poor town in this game. If you feel like you're truly pegged scum and want to bet on it, then here's my offer (sucker): I flip town and I pick your avatar for a month. I flip scum and you pick mine for a month. Deal?
Also, in your response to my bet, please make a list of images you don't like; it will help me with your avatar.

Vote Count:

AceMarksman (3) - Semioldguy, Zazier, Zwetschenwasser
Darox (0) -
Empking (1) - LeakingGoofball
Farside22 (0) -
LeakingGoofball (1) - Farside22
Lobstermania (2) - Darox, Mastin
LunaLouise (0) -
Mastin (3) - Tarhalindur, Lobstermania, AceMarksman
Semioldguy (0) -
Tarhalindur (0) -
Zazier (0) -
Zwetschenwasser (1) - Empking

LunaLouise is V/LA 15th-25th.
RBT is V/LA 20th-27th

[zwetschenwasser]

^strawman

[Mastin]

I love how Mastin spends 8 pages explaining how we can't meta him

Not true--

I say that you can't point out inconsistencies in my Meta, as metagaming me won't work for suspicion lists. I change my playstyle over time, and different games have different circumstances.

and then tries to justify the case Ace made against him by referring us to previous games.

I encourage people to look at my previous games and show you exactly why what I am doing is consistent with my play in previous games.

Mastin, I didn't omgus vote you.

Seemed that way to me.

I voted you because of posts like #421.

421 was a fine post.

Your alignment in previous games has nothing to do with the role you were given in this one.

I don't KNOW my role yet, Lobscum.
I already explained why I am treating myself as if I were vanilla, until we have one night to prove otherwise.

I really hope this isn't a serious point you're trying to make.

No smiley, no sarcasm tag, serious.

Because it's one of the few defenses you provide that relate specifically to this thread.

Haven't I been saying for a long time that I almost wish this were a night-start game?

Simply put, I know what my PM is. I just don't know what it is.

I could be the bg,
I could be the mason recruiter,
I could just be a plain 'ol vanilla, for all I know.

The fact is, I want to KNOW what I am. I'm okay with surprises (Mastin, Kiego Asano, Vanilla Town,

Latent Tracker

-->O_O), but the fact is, I prefer to know.

ZEEnon was just poor town in this game.

He was good town in 760.

If you feel like you're truly pegged scum and want to bet on it, then here's my offer (sucker): I flip town and I pick your avatar for a month. I flip scum and you pick mine for a month. Deal?

I'd accept this bet if you made it two-way:
If I flip scum, you chose mine,
If I flip town, I chose yours,

If you flip scum, I chose yours,
If you flip town, you chose mine.

(This would, of course, potentially lead us to both choose each others' avatar...)

Deal?

Also, in your response to my bet, please make a list of images you don't like; it will help me with your avatar.

I dislike images of people for avatars. They're my least favorite avatar to see, universally. It also helps when avatars match the gender on the profile, otherwise, it creates confusion.

You?

[AceMarksman]

1: It WAS NOT A STRAWMAN. Ignoring my explanation for that, are you?

2: The fact that I've done it in many games makes it a Null Tell, Ace.

1)No, it was a strawman. Your explanation was a semantics argument.
2)The fact that you've done it multiple times doesn't indicate a thing. It's always anti-town.

So now I'm a top suspect because I'm making cases against you? Really? That's quite OMGUS.

[Mastin]

)No, it was a strawman. Your explanation was a semantics argument.

No. No, it was not.

2)The fact that you've done it multiple times doesn't indicate a thing. It's always anti-town.

Didn't you call my long posts and tunneling Anti-town in 742?

Yea, you did.

Does Anti-town translate to scum?

Nope.

Try harder.

So now I'm a top suspect because I'm making cases against you?

No.

You're a top suspect, for
1:Early-on reactions which I need to double-check on,
2: For your WEAK cases against me, which I've countered.

Really? That's quite OMGUS.

A-hem.

I'm withholding a vote from Ace for one reason:

While his current meta doesn't match the meta I have on him from 742 by my memory, this was some time ago, so
1: My memory might be off,
And
2: His playstyle might have changed.

Not OMGUS.

[Mastin]

And, again, Ace, are you willing to take the bet?

I think you're not, for you know that you'd lose.

[AceMarksman]

bets have no place in mafia, and it is OMGUS because you never voiced

hard

and

recent

suspicion of me until now.

[Mastin]

Users browsing this forum: AceMarksman

That better be for a post in here...

[zwetschenwasser]

SHUT UP!!!

[Mastin]

Oh, look at the timing. But I was obviously expecting more.

bets have no place in mafia,

They do to me.

and it is OMGUS because you never voiced hard and recent suspicion of me until now.

It is not, for these suspicions have always existed. I just haven't been very vocal of my suspects, because,

AT YOUR OWN ADMITION,

I've been mostly defending myself.

Let's see how many posts I express my doubts in you.

[AceMarksman]

I'm no longer going to argue this mastin, as your defenses are not worth refuting.

[Mastin]

One,

Two,

Three,

Four, (What I saw as ignoring a post of mine)

Five,

Six,

---
Come to think of it, Ace, did you ever drop OFF of my suspect list?
There's more than just the above, but I've got to leave, now.

---

Anyway, I rest my case on the fact that it hasn't been OMGUS, as Ace claims.

[Mastin]

I'm no longer going to argue this mastin, as your defenses are not worth refuting.

Says you, Ace, who are making the points that *I* am countering with ease. It rests on YOU to counter my counters and push your case, otherwise, you look even more scummy.

---
Acemarkscuman is still scum. My vote remains on Lobster for the moment while I await a response, though.

[semioldguy]

@Mastin
In post 406 you say that ZEEnon replacing out is a null tell. But then in your very next post in 408 you say that you believe constantly replacing out is a scum tell.

[Mastin]

ZEE replacing out is a null tell, as he has a history of doing so.

People in general doing it is a scum tell.

Nice popping out of lurking, Semi. You contributed far more than this in 763.

*#$)*&#$#~!!!!!

Mod: Please delete the original

. :/

Done.

[semioldguy]

Simply put, I know what my PM is. I just don't know what it is.

I could be the bg,
I could be the mason recruiter,
I could just be a plain 'ol vanilla, for all I know.

The fact is, I want to KNOW what I am. I'm okay with surprises (Mastin, Kiego Asano, Vanilla Town,

Latent Tracker

-->O_O), but the fact is, I prefer to know.

You are either scum or you are town. You can't be one of any specific thing like Bodyguard or Mason Recruiter. How is one night phase going to answer for you what you are?

[Darox]

I love how Mastin spends 8 pages explaining how we can't meta him

Not true--

I say that you can't point out inconsistencies in my Meta, as metagaming me won't work for suspicion lists. I change my playstyle over time, and different games have different circumstances.

and then tries to justify the case Ace made against him by referring us to previous games.

I encourage people to look at my previous games and show you exactly why what I am doing is consistent with my play in previous games.

Uh oh.

Looks like someone is lying through their teeth.
Lets watch that again, but this time, in LARGE BOLD PRINT.

I say that you can't point out inconsistencies in my Meta, as metagaming me won't work for suspicion lists.

I change my playstyle over time, and different games have different circumstances.

I encourage people to look at my previous games and show you exactly why what I am doing is consistent with my play in previous games.

Why the contradictions?

Mastin, I didn't omgus vote you.

Seemed that way to me.

Oh golly gosh, if it

seems

like it it must be so. Got anything meatier on this subject?

Your alignment in previous games has nothing to do with the role you were given in this one.

I don't KNOW my role yet, Lobscum.
I already explained why I am treating myself as if I were vanilla, until we have one night to prove otherwise.

Why do you keep reaffirming that you are effectively vanilla and don't yet know your role when it has nothing to do with the topics at hand?

Because it's one of the few defenses you provide that relate specifically to this thread.

Haven't I been saying for a long time that I almost wish this were a night-start game?

Simply put, I know what my PM is. I just don't know what it is.

I could be the bg,
I could be the mason recruiter,
I could just be a plain 'ol vanilla, for all I know.

The fact is, I want to KNOW what I am. I'm okay with surprises (Mastin, Kiego Asano, Vanilla Town,

Latent Tracker

-->O_O), but the fact is, I prefer to know.

Again, how is this relevant?

Oh, and going back to older stuff.

I HAD MY SUSPICIONS OF LOBSTER BEFORE HE VOTED ME.
Actually, of Zee. I'll drag them out for you if needed.
Lobster's OMGUS'ing me, not Vice Versa.

That's now how OMGUS works. Right now you're just flinging mud.

And finally, an old question which rather neatly links into the above.

I still don't like the fact that you claimed that without provocation. It looks like you are being slightly paranoid and feel the need to justify even future actions.

Why hide the truth if you have nothing to hide? Sure, if you're a cop or doctor or something, I can understand, but I don't even know what role I am yet. So why hide it?

What made you say this?

For those playing at home, Ace was wary of this claim right here.

I'm a hard read. My post style is considered inheritantly scummy by some, and incredibly pro-town by others.
(Also, there isn't much of a need--I get nk'd n1 so often that there really isn't much of a point to read a dead-man-walking. )

A claim by Mastin that he is hard to read and we don't have to worry about him. A valid point by Ace. Absolutely nothing pertains to declaring roles here. Naturally, I am confused as to why Mastin would respond by saying he doesn't not know his role, so why should he not claim it, when neither he nor Ace have mentioned roles.

Mastin then responds to my query by posting a ball of fluff.

Errm, because it's the truth, Darox?

[Fluff]

I've got long posts in almost all my games.

[Meta Fluff]

I've got many long posts in most of my games.

[Meta Fluff]

I've got no completed games as scum,

[Fluff]

And in any games where I am scum, I would do the best to act as if I were that role, anyway.

[Fluff]

(My personal opinion: The key to scumsess is to put yourself into the mind of what role you claim to be, and to stick through it 'til the end.)

[Fluff]

Which is why I am a hard read, and why the warning is necessary.

[Meta Fluff]

I've got four completed games of experience as a pro-town player.

[Fluff]

Two of which are vanilla town.

[Fluff]

(I'm assuming I am vanilla town until I actually see what my box does.

[Fluff]

I recommend that, once everyone who isn't scum figure out what they do, for them to do their best to act as if nothing has changed.)

[Fluff]

Yet, still, I have played inconsistently throughout my games.

[Jarring incongruity with the claim that his playstyle is consistent]

So Mastin, lets try again.
Why do you on several occasions begin talking about roles in response to questions that are not related to them?
Why do you continually use your meta to shield and handwave your actions?
Why do several of your defenses consist of "Nuh uh" and "No you"?

In unrelated news:

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

[Mastin]

Limited time at the moment, but will respond to what I can.

You are either scum or you are town.

This is not related to the quote.

You can't be one of any specific thing like Bodyguard or Mason Recruiter.

Perhaps.

How is one night phase going to answer for you what you are?

Using the ability, of course.

Why the contradictions?

I've explained this several times:

I encourage people to look at my meta to see how my play is consistent.

But when people look for inconsistencies, I can easily cite the changes for it.

Metagaming me won't work if you're trying to show me as scum.

But if you want to use it in my defense, sure.

Got anything meatier on this subject?

Yes. The proof I've been quoting for pages.

Why do you keep reaffirming that you are effectively vanilla and don't yet know your role when it has nothing to do with the topics at hand?

Because I know that I'm not scum, and am treating myself as vanilla otherwise.

Again, how is this relevant?

Because only the scum know who they are.

Why do you on several occasions begin talking about roles in response to questions that are not related to them?

They are. That's why.

Why do you continually use your meta to shield and handwave your actions?

To prove I am pro-town.

Why do several of your defenses consist of "Nuh uh" and "No you"?

They do not--I'm giving proof.

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

That's, what, the fourth?

I extend the bet to you, as it is open to Ace and Tar:

HOW MUCH ARE YOU WILLING TO BET ON ME BEING SCUM?!?

[semioldguy]

How is one night phase going to answer for you what you are?

Using the ability, of course.

Except for the fact that after you do, since it's a one-shot item, you're back to not knowing what you do any longer as you still have more boxes without known contents until the next night when you try opening one and seeing if you can make whats inside without the instructions.

[Mastin]

Except for the fact that after you do, since it's a one-shot item, you're back to not knowing what you do any longer as you still have more boxes without known contents until the next night when you try opening one and seeing if you can make whats inside without the instructions.

So?

I find out what I'd primarily be revealed as.

[semioldguy]

Unvote; Vote: Mastin

Offering a bet to people doesn't make you look town, it makes you look desperate. I don't buy meta as a self-defense from you or from anyone else. Good town play defends itself so that your past games shouldn't have to. These reasons, in addition to the numerous contradictions you've been spouting, make you look scummy.

[Mastin]

Offering a bet to people doesn't make you look town

I never said that I did.

I DID however say that those refusing to take it were either unsure of their cases, or were scum.

THIS I find is true, due to them KNOWING that I am innocent, and thereby KNOWING that they'd be wrong.

it makes you look desperate.

Heck yes I'm desperate.

I can't even claim what kind of role I am because I simply don't know.
I want to find out really, really badly and see what one night reveals.

I don't buy meta as a self-defense from you or from anyone else.

Funny. I seem to recall differently from your play in 763.

Good town play defends itself so that your past games shouldn't have to.

Yet against some accusations, the only defense is previous games.

These reasons, in addition to the numerous contradictions you've been spouting, make you look scummy.

Your reactions,
As well as the fact that you ignored that I DEFENDED those "contradictions" makes YOU look scummy.

[semioldguy]

I don't think you have successfully defended the majority of your contradictions that have been pointed out. Just because you think you have does not make it so.

Why do several of your defenses consist of "Nuh uh" and "No you"?

They do not--I'm giving proof.

This in itself is a contradiction. You take the accusation that several of your defenses consist of "nuh-uh" and "no you" and you defend it with a "nuh-uh."

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; Mastin

All that "I'm refuting them with ease" type posts are major scum tells.

[farside22]

I'm doing a catch up today but a note to the mod

V/LA may 22 thru May 25th