Creative Defense
As I mentioned
Right Here , specifically, this line:
Mastin wrote:This is a fraction of the intended post.
The full post will cover pages 19, 20, 21, 22, and then go into a PBPA on Ace and Semi, their reactions towards each other, and previous game experience of both players. (Not sure who I'd think to be the third member, at this moment.)
I have unleashed just a mere fraction of my defense, offense, and insight into the game. This is the rest. It will be long. Really, really long. But you’re asking for it, you’re telling me to play. And this is how I do it.
Let’s start with my theory on my first three boxes:
Brown first. This is a color on epicmafia that I exclusively associate with common power roles: Cops, Trackers, and Watchers. We have all three as possibilities, but my gut is telling me that I am a tracker. It’s just a feeling I’ve had for a while. This might be due to the brown-bias, the color association I mentioned above (of which, the tracker [not the cop, and certainly not the watcher] is the most common on EM), but it’s still what I feel like the brown does. I want to know for sure, though. I want to live through a night, to see if I am an investigative role.
White’s a color I associate with two roles: Masons, and Doctors. Again, we have both. Masons on epicmafia are a shade of light grey, while doctors have the white coat with the traditional Red Cross. So these two are what I naturally associate with the color. And my theory involves them being one of those two. Of them, I have definitely been thinking that the Mason would be this one. I had planned out exactly what would’ve happened. If I were to have found this true, and recruited, having chosen Tar, and another player if a third is needed (Zaz was my thought), if this were to be the case.
Black, I can see as being a Jailer, Hider, or a Vig. They all seem equally probable, due to the fact that they are all common things. A taser is black, Hiders hide in the dark, and jailors blindfold their jailed during the night.
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Of course, this is, again, just me speculating. It’s based heavily on my own experience, on a site that most people seem to shun. But they are what I am currently thinking. I’m also thinking that the mafia are worried about my role, and that I do have some sort of powerful role in my first three boxes—worth checking out.
With that out of the way…
Defense first, offense shortly after. When I have finished this section (mainly catching up to the game), I will begin to attack—again, just after I finish this.
Ace wrote:Offering up a bet is a scumtell, however.
I gave you two examples of pro-town players offering bets, Ace.
Give me ONE where it was done by scum, and they didn’t back down on it.
Zwet wrote:He seems to have just given up of not being lynched in this game
I never give up. If I did, I’d self vote, self hammer, do whatever I can to get out of the game. No. That would only harm us. My lynch would be a mislynch. It would also lose whatever powers that I can provide the rest of the town with. Unless the mod reveals what my primary box does upon my death, then I’d have contributed nothing by just dieing.
I have far more to offer by living, by hunting the scum, by providing a solid case.
So, no, I have not given up. Unless I got a 100% guarantee that both Semi and Ace would be dead by tomorrow (Vig, Lynch), I wouldn’t even consider it.
which is what frustrated town do much more often that desperate scum.
It is true, that I am frustrated.
Semi wrote:I know Mastin is around because he has been quite active in other games the past few days despite not being in this one for three days now.
It isn’t true today. Almost every post of mine today has been, as Tar said that page, an “anti-prod”. I’ve had these kinds of things before, they’ll pass eventually.
It makes me think he is avoiding this game which is not very protown and not really showing of any concern to help the town either.
I give games where I am close to a lynch more devotion, admittedly. *shrugs*. The more votes that are on me, the more I can attack others and defend against counter-attacks. However, when you’re in many of THOSE at once (Dang my supposedly anti-town playstyle…), it’s a bit harder to manage them all.
Tar wrote:- While, after review, Mastin is correct that Newb 688 isn't necessarily representative of him, he DOES have an ongoing game where he has been mod-revealed by death reveal as Mafia. I'm not sure what Riceballtail's policy is towards information from death reveals in ongoing games (some mods allow the use of such information, most don't)
Well, Tar, I now have a completed game as scum.
Polygamist Mafia. Your IIoA tell didn’t apply; I was doing legitimate scum hunting until I fell inactive due to my V/LA status. (Do note that inactivity is a null tell for me, as I’ve done it many times before. 763, six pages, 141, two pages, Polygamist mafia, etc.)
Wonder why I say Metagaming Me (in attack) Won’t Work?
Yea, games like that where I do nothing I don’t do as town.
I wouldn't have called IIoA on him in Bleach Mafia
I certainly think I wasn’t contributing. You have to admit, there was a significant difference between 763 and 760. Also note how in 760, I admitted to having been lost in a non-newbie game at the time, one which I had read as a spectator, but not been able to play as. (Sound familiar? It should; something nearly identical has happened this game.)
(As far as I'm concerned, he's effectively claiming that he is NEVER scummy
More like never scum. My styles inheritently anti-town, sometimes called scummy. I’m someone who is best left for,
1: The mafia night-kill. I’m annoying enough to them to attract it. If they can’t lynch me, I die.
2: Investigations. In the slight, roughly ¼ chance that I am mafia, let the cop/tracker/watcher/whatever catch me.
I really don’t think any other option would work on me.
and that no case can be built on him ever, because scumtells boil down to deviations from town Meta).
Pretty much, yea. Got a problem with my arrogance? My confidence? My Ego? Well, feel free to state it.
The Time I said I was PM’ing the Mod wrote:Fri May 22, 2009 2:09 pm Post subject: 471
The Time I said I sent it wrote:Posted: Fri May 22, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: 472
14 minutes of writing it up and sending it. I did nothing in the middle. Go ahead and check my posts—you’ll find I posted nothing in that time. In other words, I was busy for 14 minutes doing
.
The Mod Then Logged On and Responded to Tar . Immediately afterwards (as soon as I log in), I post my claim (which I had already typed up once and sent to the mod).
That’s not coincidence.
If I wasn’t busy asking the mod what I could claim…
What was I doing in that time?
Semi wrote:I don't really understand what the purpose of the role claim is
Standard procedure, a courtesy given even if there are only vanilla townies left in the game. It helps avoid the lynch of a power role. It also helps the pro-town players see if the suspicious player has a role pm similar to their own. If they do, they’re more likely to be town (or are scum with safe claims, or are scum who got incredibly lucky). If they don’t, then they either paraphrased the pm in a way to render it unrecognizable as quoting the pm (also rendering it less resembling another player’s pm), or are more likely to be scum.
For example, I added padding. The speculation of success rates, to give an example.
or why breadcrumbing the color box that you have would be helpful in determining you as town.
It would show either I was devoting a lot of time to an early-on lie (this is a bad tactic, one I’d never use), or that I have the role I said I did and have been dead serious.
You have a brown box, so what,
So, this might become important later on to the rest of the town. Sure, it momentarily tells the scum what role I am, but it certainly gives information, to say the least.
it doesn't matter what color any of our main boxes are because we all have a different color anyway.
I’m sleepy. Falling asleep as I write this. But my memory says nothing implies this scenario which you are thinking of, in the flavor. What’s to stop people from having the same colors? Mind pointing it out for me?
Until we have a way to link box color to scum or town
My claim helps do that—it links you to town.
the box color doesn't make you any more or less likely to be the alignment you claim to be.
And for the reasoning above, I respectfully disagree.
Going to sleep right now, so do forgive me for not finishing it tonight and for possibly losing my train of thought tomorrow.
Ah, good to be back. I’ve got a nice and revitalized mind. After I check over the wording in my last few responses above (seriously, I was so tired that I was literally blacking out as I was typing, unaware of what I was actually saying.), I’ll move on to start again.
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Finished. (Some of those typos were rather, well, embarrassing. Answers instead of colors, for example. I hate being so tired yet wanting to still contribute to the game.)
Let’s start again, then.
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Lobster wrote:As far as I can figure out, the color of the boxes refers only to the devices they can build.
This I agree with.
I'm not sure where Mastin came up with percentages of construction/efficiency.
An educated guess. The other colors we have besides the one with instructions certainly aren’t there for nothing—they have to do something. But this would be overpowered if they all had a 100% success/efficiency rate. So, by my reasoning, I figure that the others, in order of favorite to least favorite, are more to less likely to work. The one with instructions I imagine is 100% effective. I imagine that they have a decreasing success rate after that. Perhaps by 10%, or 15%, or some percentage along that line. This would mean that people have one ability which I’d think would instantly work, and others that will probably work, while some that will doubtfully work. In my eyes, that makes sense from a balance perspective. (In fact, I’ve toyed with the idea myself a little. JOAT-like roles with very powerful abilities, and lots of them, but with the stronger abilities having a far less likelihood of succeeding. I was going to have it be a mini-theme game on top of that.)
However, as hesitant as I am to say this, I believe Mastin's claim.
Going to back out on the bet, or are you going to post the kind of avatars you dislike?
Mastin, while I don't approve of your responses that consist of "Nope," and "I didn't"
You know what, I imagine a few of them do exist…
But I’d like people to link every example of where I said, essentially, “Nope”, or “I didn’t”, and never gave an explanation as to why the person I’m saying “nope” to is wrong. That way, I can point out where I clarify/defend myself if existing, or I can elaborate and explain why I said, essentially, “nope”.
If people don’t post EXACTLY what they’re attacking me for (saying I’m just basically saying “Nope” doesn’t qualify—that’s a general thing, not a specific one), then it is FAR harder to defend against.
I approve of them from Zwetschen even less.
I do not approve of the Zwet vote at this time—he’s always like that.
Ace wrote:FoS: lob The only difference between scum roles and town roles are the win conditions
Oh, really?
Is that so…?
I see no evidence of this in the thread, nor in my PM.
Scum, however, after SEEING my claim, WOULD know.
therefore mastin's claim cannot confirm him.
Yea, due to the fact that I don’t know what the brown box does yet, and that’s my primary ability.
No claim can ever confirm a player. It can, however, make it far more likely that they’re a pro-town player. While I certainly think it does, this is obviously a slightly biased opinion on the matter.
He has an even chance of getting the brown box as scum and as town.
And what’s your basis for this, Ace?
Tar wrote:To give Mastin an opportunity to slip up by showing information he shouldn't have had
Thing is, I don’t have information that I shouldn’t have. If anything, I don’t have enough. I’m speculating a lot on my role. I can’t know for certain. It’s just my educated guess.
(or be really stupid and, say, claim a box other than his own)
This would be on the same level of stupidity as claiming your actual role name in a themed game where it is clear that your kill method matches your role name. *coughsMedievalMafia*
as well as another reason that I will elaborate on shortly.
Well, amongst others, it is common courtesy to allow for a claim, even if all roles are known and you’re 90% sure that they’re scum.
I gave Kublai Khan that courtesy, allowing him to claim doctor, in 742, despite knowing for a fact that he was scum.
Mastin, in your claim you mention white and black subboxes.
Actually, it’s several smaller boxes. Brown, white, and black are just the first three in my preferences, with brown having instructions taped to it.
But, yea, basically that’s what I was mentioning.
Are these boxes hypothetical, or do they actually appear in your box PM?
They appear in the PM. I imagine that I can attempt to construct them as well. I have already explained how I’m speculating how they are less likely to work, though.
Additionally, if the latter, why do you think that they are the two most likely boxes other than the brown box to work?
Because they’re the top two after the smaller brown one with instructions.
Lobster wrote:I was given one large box with seven smaller boxes inside it. The only box with instructions attached is the same color as the large box.
(Side-note: I now understand why Zwet has so much trouble finding his role PM’s. I’m having trouble locating which PM from Rice is my role PM. I wish there was a search for author function in PM’s or something like that)
A quick count confirmed that this is the case in my PM. One large one. With seven smaller ones inside. One of the smaller ones matches the color of the large one, and has instructions taped to it. In my case, the large one is brown.
Ace is setting up mislynches. It will take a bloomy miracle to reverse my wagon onto scum today, so he knows that I’ll flip town today, more likely than not, and then will attack Lobster for it, when Lobster’s actions on the matter look pro-town. I do not like this post…AT ALL.
Semi wrote:I don't know why or where he gets these possible percentages from
Again, it is speculation. It makes sense, in my eyes, to have one 100% success rate box when opened, and have the others do something, but be less likely to be successfully constructed than the first box which had instructions to it.
I also don't understand why he has a least favorite box color.
Well, it’s at the bottom of my preference list. Hence, least-favorite. Simple logic, really.
Rice wrote:If you know somebody who would like to hop in, have them PM me.
Not really, sadly. I have plenty of players who I WISH were playing (said players are people who I know are good, and who I know at least partially understand my playstyle and can back up my claims), but none that I’d know who are actively willing to replace in. :/
Tar wrote:Okay, THAT's very interesting. Does anybody else see the rather large difference between these two claims (from zeenon and his replacement lobstermania, respectively)?
I have a theory about it, that being that Zee had instructions. However, we don’t know what the instructions say. We just have ‘em. I, of course, speculate that the instructions give the box which they are taped to a 100% success rate. But Zee might’ve interpreted the fact that we have them as a mentioning of ‘em, but considered them to not be existent.
If that makes sense.
It is something to be wary of, and one of the reasons why Lobster is still suspicious, in my eyes. (Though I find it less likely that he’s scum, due to having both accepted my bet, and not backed down on it thusfar. See Recklessness-->Towntell for more information.)
Darox wrote:Mastin is still the best lynch candidate.
Explanations are a pro-town player’s friend. Lack of them is a scum player’s dream.
Elaborate on why.
Zwetschenwasser is an ok fallback but it's better if he just gets vigged asap.
Vig directing. Saying who should be vigged.
Not exactly a pro-town thing to do.
Duck wrote:I think that one of these options is applicable.
A. Mastin is scum, trying to save himself by going after Lobster
B. Lobster is scum, Mastin is correct
C. Mastin is scum, bussing Lobster
False Dilemma. There’s an option D, we’re both town attacking each other.
What I do find suspicious is Mastin's use of meta.
Look into any of my previous games. I used meta as a defense in almost all of them. (“ZOMG! He’s doing it again, he must be scum! Vote Mastin! Diescumdie!”[/sarcasm])
Showing us how Z has acted in previous games is no hard evidence.
Yes. Yes, it does. Metagaming is a very powerful tool, particularly on players with many completed games who’ve settled into a pattern. (Precisely why it isn’t effective on me—I haven’t settled into a pattern. Things like inactivity, to give an example, which people keep on seeing as a scum-tell turn out to be, in reality, a null tell due to it being in all my games.)
Meta is not true evidence!
Yes. Yes, it is. It helps expose scum more often than not, and can identify town as well. It is perhaps one of the most powerful tools I’ve ever seen. It can be known to fail, but that only very rarely happens.
That just seems like a strange aspect to bring into your claim when percentage of success has never been mentioned before that.
It is something which I view as important. I was wanting to mention this speculation before, but couldn’t do it without claiming. I wouldn’t mention it if I didn’t think it was significant to helping us figure out what our powers do.
Also, could you please post your analysis for the player post summaries you created, or post your reasoning for not following through on it?
Not comprehending.
Semi wrote:Mastin what makes Orange your least favorite box color as opposed to one of the box colors you didn't receive?
Well, of the ones I received, orange is at the bottom of the list.
If you’re curious to know, Pink, Cyan, and Red fall between Black and Orange.
MeLike wrote:I am not totally getting the bandwagon on Mastin right now
It is an excuse to get a lynch on me. Driven by scum, with pro-town players following along.
I’m inclined to believe that my claim has worried the scum somehow. I think they’re afraid of what my brown box can do.
Semi wrote:Also my case is built around his contradictions
1: You’re one to talk. The strawman from me argument, followed by something that can easily be considered the same exact kind of supposed strawman that you’re accusing me of doing, Semi.
2: I have explained all of these so-called contradictions, and if I haven’t, then I will do so if you quote the supposed contradictions, to show why they are augmenting each other, not contradicting.
I thought I made it pretty clear that I think he has been contradicting himself.
And yet, even after a solid defense of my actions, you still think I’m contradicting myself when I am, in fact, only augmenting my arguments. This is tunneling at best.
Lobster wrote:I'm getting frustrated with his lack of explanation to questions I have asked several times
Ask them, and I’ll answer them. If I don’t, then chances are, I haven’t had the time to do so, or missed them.
provide some analysis to your pbpa post #251
I forget which post that was. :/
explain why you think boxes have percentages of working
Again, why would we have boxes which do nothing? They have to do something. Yet we can’t all have a bunch of boxes that work 100% of the time, now, can we? That’d allow us to effectively control our powers very, very well, and would, essentially, once we found one box’s content, would be able to use said box’s content to nail the scum.
Hence, why I think that the percentages of the boxes exist, and I am speculating on this.
or explain why he chooses not to respond
Inactivity. Simple as that.
Lobster wrote:I'll give the town a day or so to respond to Mastin's 542 post. And then I'll hammer.
Lobster, it’s quotes such as these that make people think you’re scummy. Flip-flopping between Zwet and I, washboarding, is something most people consider rather scummy.
Show us based off your actions in this game.
Hard to do, if you hammer me, Lobster. I will defend against it, now that you pointed it out.
