Newbie 807 - Game Over

[dothefandango]

Random Vote? Why not,

vote: Kard8p3

.

[dothefandango]

TBH, I think it's either fishy or just a coincidence. I watching closely, but I would never put much into these first round discussions. Everyone's jumpy to point the finger, so I just go with my gut.

[dothefandango]

What is your gut telling you, if you don't mind sharing?

I don't have any reason behind it, but the one that is the most talkative at first usually is antsy, so I just decided to go with what I thought at the time.

[dothefandango]

As an IC, it's my job to talk as much as possible, particularly at the start of the game, in order to help you guys into the rhythm of the game. I think that supersedes the 'antsy' idea.

If you realize, I didn't vote for you

[dothefandango]

But you see how shaky rubrics like this are? Any kind of "rule" you have for yourself like, "quiet players are mafia," "talkative players are mafia," can be contradicted.

I see how easily they can be made, but for me this is a rule I have felt out a few times elsewhere. Like I said, gotta go with your gut.

[dothefandango]

Tempted to change my vote for the purpose of speeding this up, or even to make it more interesting.

In fact, lets!

VOTE CancerBottle

[dothefandango]

Way to be foolish. Give a reason ALWAYS!

I gave my reason. I don't want this to be a bandwagon vote. Why not let the person decide between two equally guilty (in our eyes at this point) dudes instead of kicking one off just because he has more votes? Stir up the pot. Seems like it's working .

[dothefandango]

I can't really post when nothing is happening...

[dothefandango]

Kard didn't jump on me when I randomly voted for him to start. No reason to point a finger at this stage like that.

[dothefandango]

You should have your eye on everyone -- its the first day!

[dothefandango]

I think this all much aqdo about nothing. Someone needs to go so we can get this game on the road.

[dothefandango]

If you noticed in the beginning, I pointed at Kard initially when I thought he was the most suspicious, with no reasons beyond my own opinion and a gut instinct. Then when it became clear that people were using other's crazy reasoning, I didn't feel it proper for someone to be bandwagon'd on Day 1.

I keep my vote where it is until I actually have motive to move it.

[dothefandango]

When I voted, it was 3v2. I decided to make it an even 3v3. It was nondiscriminatory.

[dothefandango]

Wouldn't that seem hypocritical? If anything, that would allure me to vote for crazypianist , but I suppose that would just cause more problems.

[dothefandango]

ERGH tired of talking in circles about this, but

KARD

seems like your time is now...

Vote KARD

As per the rules, this vote counts. Bold tags fixed. - Mod.

[dothefandango]

No no no, I'm sorry but I won't take the fall for this one. I was essentially bullied into voting for one of the two poeple with more votes, and now that I wanted the phase to end and voted for the one that I ORIGINALLY VOTED FOR, I get the immediate vote? No way sir.

[dothefandango]

But since my crazy reasoning has been debunked, by me no less, why not revote?

In any event, if you don't have players coming to a consensus, deciding to vote on a particular player, how does the town move past day 1?

The bullying wasn't to vote for Kard, but to vote in general. So I went with who I voted for in the first place. if you need examples of why I voted for him the first times around, here you go: it was random. It was the first round. To quote yourself:

The random vote is common practice here

[dothefandango]

Well shouldn't the people that LEAD the bandwagon be looked at a little more closely then? Oh wait, that was YOU CDB.

Also, I'm going to unvote, vote: Kard. Why did you OMGUS vote CP? Town's job is to be finding scum - how did that help towards that goal?

VOTE CDB

[dothefandango]

@Dothefandango. First you say your bored and want to get someone voted off to speed the process of the game, now you say that you were bullied into voting. Can you make up your mind?

I'm saying how I felt when I posted and voted. I felt like A.) The game was not progressing, and that B.) I was being obstinate in my motive to not vote for a L-2+ suspect, and C.) that you guys were looking at me not voting as more suspicious than anything. Apparently I was wrong on all counts.

So I guess I was bored, curious, and pressured all at the same time. I did not vote for him in haste, I put up the biggest fight out of anyone besides you Snow White. In the end, I obviously should have listened to you, but hindsight is 20/20.

[dothefandango]

I'll admit, my vote was awful. But there is nothing I can do that can bring him back. I can

UNVOTE

you, however. Sorry for vote-flopping like this, but I'm trying not to let my fear of being lynched overcome my logic.

What I want to point out is that I had no idea Kard would do what he did. That's crazy.

[dothefandango]

Fair enough. I hope I can eventually convince you otherwise.

The reason I brought up that I didn't know that Kard would do that also made that I had no room for explanation as soon as he voted for himself. I assumed someone would question me, like they had before, and I would be able to show them why I voted why I did. But then the suicide vote killed discussion for the night.

[dothefandango]

And what are your suspicions?

[dothefandango]

I'm most confused by your own claim of two people that automatically triggered you without you saying one thing, and you focus on me? I can't tell you how foolish that seems. You have to play instant offense.

[dothefandango]

Even more, that makes me even more suspicious of you sir... FOS: CrazyPianist

[dothefandango]

It wasn't about keeping it on you, it was about just not voting. I should have unvoted. You were clearly in no danger and I didn't mean to keep the heat on you like that.

[dothefandango]

I'm talking alot because I was instantly on the cutting block for simply following the bandwagon. I honestly didn't know I was doing myself harm.

I think there have been a lot more suspicious things going on here instead of me voting (and NOT lynching, I need to still point out) for Kard.

[dothefandango]

Things I find suspicious:
Meji Fan's death.
crazypianist not investigating the people that have votes for him before he votes for me.

CP has addressed the preceeding, but I still find it weird.

Either way, I am going to be away for the night, I might be able to sign in, so I will have to with-hold my vote from now. If I could ask that I not be lynched when I come back, that would be great .

[dothefandango]

Ok, back for a bit, this is what I have to say:

Meji died, her vote was for Snow, the only one. Two reasons why this could have happened: Frame Snow / Protect Snow.

I suppose this is a

MOD QUESTION:

In the given setup, there are a maximum of 2 mafia. This only allows for one lynching per night, correct? Or can each Goon/Roleblocker kill a separate person?

The mafiates have one group kill between them per night. - Mod.

[dothefandango]

Hmm... all very suspicious.

There are many levels to the Meji argument, so maybe it's just best to lead with the info that's being put out in front of us. Unfortunately, Meji has the LEAST posts here, so we're grasping at air.

The Kard bandwagon (that everyone but Snow White, Meji, BGG, and Kirchirou were on) seems to be the key here guys. Meji is dead, and the person Meji pointed at is seemingly being framed. Something is going on here, and there is a missing piece. Someone is lying, and it's someone in an alpha role.

[dothefandango]

The point of starting a bandwagon, even for good purposes, is still starting a bandwagon, and I do think this sort of behavior needs to be looked at. I'm not incriminating you CDB, I just want more info on why you did it, maybe if you could sum it up in a few sentences?

[dothefandango]

Other than Meji Fan's death what else is there to go on atm?

As noted above, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on the origin on the Kard bandwagon. Read up, the history before Kard's weird Unvote/Vote sequence is the most intriguing. Look at who was on the block and look at who no one was questioning at the end of the day? I don't want to point any figure yet -- but the FoS is quivering.

[dothefandango]

I couldn't find it within the pages, thanks. I don't think it helps me at this point. The vote seemed extremely harmless, seeing as it was the first round. But, we were all hungry to look at suspicions, so for this I don't blame you.

I think that Meji's death is a complete red herring at this point, no in terms of that we should avoid Snow White, but there is as much likeliness that Snow White had a hand in it as anyone else did. The fact that she is so adamant to claim that she was framed (when no one else was really saying "hey that's the only one to vote for Snow White, get her!") makes me crazy suspicious.

Essentially I don't trust anyone right now.

[dothefandango]

Further, a vote for either party at L-2 right now would set up a possible quick lynch, which I want to avoid, considering that's the main reason I was thought of as scum today.

I'm waiting for someone to say something that I can say, "AHA!" and see what's happening.

[dothefandango]

I don't get what you're saying Snow White.

[dothefandango]

So it's up to me, eh?

Kichirou's silence makes me think he's either a cop or scum. I don't want to lynch the cop, but he has a source of suspicion. I want to know what this is. The fact that he hasn't said anything new about it makes me very worried, but he also might be very cautious as to not put the bulls-eye on him.

[dothefandango]

No, I'm just talking out loud. I realize now that this may be considered "outing" Kichirou, but I need to figure out who is full of it and who is on my side. I figure this will force Kichirou to say something.

[dothefandango]

We could all be a cop, my speculations are as useless as anyone else's. Stop turning an anthill to a mountain.

[dothefandango]

I'm not turning this on you, I'm saying you're making more out of this than it requires. My speculation is just that, speculation.

[dothefandango]

Further, on that note: I don't think crazy is the right place to look right now either. He saved me from being at L-1, which is just as valuable to not being scum as anything.

[dothefandango]

Fine:

I

vote Kichirou

. I just don't think he's a reliable a source that Snow White leads him on to be.

[dothefandango]

Think of it as a gambit in chess. It's a sacrifice in order to be in a more advantageous position later.

[dothefandango]

My top suspicion is Kichirou. I can't vote for myself and CP seems to have the same suspicions as me.

[dothefandango]

By that, I mean Snow and Kichirou went after CP with no reason, as far as I can see.

[dothefandango]

There is no reason bgg would ever do that, when he is in a complete position to NOT vote in his confidant. Also, I had hoped that Kichirou's guilt would get you off my case and realize that Kard's voting process was a joke, but I guess not.

Vote: SNOW WHITE

Let's end this.

[dothefandango]

The Kard thing is OVER. It's done. Kichirou and Snow White were in kahoots, it's obvious.

[dothefandango]

Well, CP died, correct? Here is where I would look first:

Vote: Snow White

Snow White wanted CP dead:

Of course i could be just paranoid as hell. Im not saying you should all bandwagon CP, thats your choice, but for the time being, i like my vote.

I dont believe kichirou is scum. And unless proved otherwise this is all i will say on the matter.

I think it's time you say a little more.

[dothefandango]

Because it was too big of a deal for you even when none of us were caring/looking at it.

[dothefandango]

Sorry all, my computer malfunctioned and thus I will have limited internet access until Saturday.

That being said, I will not change my vote. If anything I cannot see why you are even voting for me. My actions, whether you agree with them or not, are pretty much the reason we have one mafia left. All signs POINT TO SNOW WHITE.

[dothefandango]

What I meant, and didn't want to say was that Kichirou was saying things he could not support and acting way too high profile. My L-1 vote of Kard was a mistake, I've admitted that extensively. If you think I'm sucm, that's fine -- but I want you to know you are wasting your vote, and a dayphase doing so.

[dothefandango]

Further, where is CB in this discussion? Or snow white?

[dothefandango]

Ok, computer is fixed and I'm ready to go.

I'm willing to let go of Snow White, but to be perfectly honest do not think this unvote is a relaxation of my suspicions. You guys made some good points and I think we need to look further into this.

UNVOTE

... for now.

[dothefandango]

Why didn't you want to say that? What possible reason did you have for keeping it back? Were you trying to hold back reasons why your scumbuddy might be scummy in case the wagon switched to somebody else? That's what it soundss like.

On the off chance Kichirou was scum, and I was pointing fingers at him the whole time, wouldn't that put me up as a target?

[dothefandango]

To be honest, I have no idea what to think. I don't like him putting me at L-1, obviously, because the only vote now is you [Snow White], and I know you're not going to vote for yourself, so my pressure on you at this point makes no sense.

I see how my actions at Kard can be conceived as scummy, but this is just a bad case of wrong place, wrong time. I don't know how I can explain this enough. I thought I made up for it for not only VOTING for a scum, but being the reason bgg changed his vote to scum (not in convincing him, but for him to drop the hammer like he did based on the stalemate).

If anything, I suppose I should be looking at CDB for suspecting me even though I voted for a scum, but at this point it seems you're either for or against me.

A lot of heat was put on me because I put a townie at L-1. Now, I stand at L-1 and no one jumps at this.

The reason I found Snow White suspicious is what seemed to be a concurrence of what her and Kichirou said. She now claims innocence, but it seems like there are just too many instances of her seemingly being "framed" for this to run true.

[dothefandango]

I am claiming, right now, Vanilla Townie. I have nothing left to lose.

[dothefandango]

You're trying to force a play on Snow White. Don't do that. When it comes out that I am town, you have NO ONE but yourself to blame. If you were scum, you would be smart enough to realize that this sort of persecution can only lead to your demise if I am a townie. Everyone is following YOUR lead. This is on your head man. When you guys go at the mafia 2v1, I wish you the best of luck.

[dothefandango]

It wasn't majority when Kard was lynched? And that is on my head now. Your reasoning, as "tight" as you think it is, is based on me making a mistake the first day. It happens, people make bad plays. But further, it was the first day. Kard seemed suspicious, I gave in to poor reasoning in my own head, and voted for him without reasoning. He dropped the hammer ON HIMSELF.

It makes no sense for me to vote for Kichirou to "throw him under a bus" when in that situation if I voted for say, CP, bgg would have followed suit and a townie would have been gone. You can throw all your theory at me, but it doesn't always work. This is a case of you making a mountain out of molehill, still.

[dothefandango]

If bgg were to hammer me, I think everyone's first suspicion should be him, for all the reasons CDB has about me. But that's speaking in such profound hypotheticals I don't even want to bother myself with it.

[dothefandango]

I took my vote off because if a mafia quicklynched her, I would be blamed. I know I didn't give into this reasoning at first, but I thought it over and realized that this could really backfire if I don't pull back. She didn't drop the hammer when she had the chance, so seemingly, under all intents and purposes, she's not looking to quicklynch. Of course, she could just be covering for that fact as well.

It's all very confounding, and I want to just go with my gut and vote with her, but with every action I have, CDB finds a reason to make it scummy.

[dothefandango]

Predicted CDB responce: "Of course, now DTF wants to turn this around on me, typical scum theory." Kidding.

[dothefandango]

Snow White, you want the heat off you then you do crazy things like that.

[dothefandango]

And yes DTF why wouldnt you try to turn it around to CDB if you were scum?

If I understood this correctly, then my answer is pretty simple. I'm not scum, so I'm not turning it on him? I don't understand what you are saying, or your reasoning.

At this time, I don't really know what's going on. So, I'm going to be honest and just say what exactly I'm thinking.

I want to vote for Snow White, but doing so might provoke you to vote for me and thus kill me. I also want to vote for CDB, but I can't tell if this is a OMGUS vote or a definite hunch that CDB is scum. The weirdest, and most difficult part to analyze comes in the fact that Snow White has all these weird things that happen around her, but she claims she has to have no hand in anything. It's either too weird to be true, or it's being made to seem too weird to be false. Someone would need to be feeding on Snow White to keep themselves out of the limelight.

But, here's what I've concluded: I know I'm a townie. That's about it.

[dothefandango]

Just came across this: http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... lage_Idiot

HMM?

[dothefandango]

I was claiming that I was the village idiot, in this case.

[dothefandango]

I don't get why all the heat has been removed from Snow White, bgg. I did it to avoid her lynching me, but you unvoted her AFTER she voted for you. She isn't in any sort of clear as far as I can see.

[dothefandango]

I'll start with Occam's Razor:

Meji Fan died first night, only one to vote for Snow White.
CrazyPianist died second night, Snow White had heavy suspicions of him all along.

Then we get into her saying things like this:

Its not an overt explanation to me because i know im innocent so logically someone was trying to frame me by killing Meji.

I don't see that as a "logical" explanation. It's just as easy for her to kill Meji say that than for a scum to kill Meji. The two are equally logical.

[dothefandango]

Also, if they're

equally

logical (I would use the word 'similarly', but I agree), it's not Occam's Razor.

THe last example was not OR, but a suspicion I had.

[dothefandango]

To be honest, walls of text just frustrate me to no end. Walls of text responding to walls of text are even more difficult for me to stand. But anyhow, I'm trying to think of a good way to say this without really sounding like an idiot, but there are so many questions that people asked me in the last few pages that I cannot address them all without getting lost in reading.

It seemed, in my minds eye, that Snow White and Kichirou were working together. This post by Kichirou caked it, in my mind:

I agree with snow someone was trying to frame her and push the magnifying glass away from them self so who was the person who had suspicions placed on them last round? Kard and Crazy we know it wasn't the Kard so that leaves Crazy and what do you know snow was voting for him.

but I see that after all was said and done how Kichirou could have said that just to get everyone off his tail and that Snow White was independant of this.

But, when CB brought this up earlier, Snow White never responds to it.

[dothefandango]

Hesitant to set-up lynch-1, but Snow White is looking extremely sketchy. I'm going to go with my original convictions and

VOTE SNOW WHITE

.

[dothefandango]

I never assumed bgg1996. Votes are to find and eliminate scum. The way you responded did not actually answer anything, and it was completely unhelpful in trying to eliminate you as a possible mafia. This is my first game, and you don't see me claiming ignorance to terms as an excuse for sloppy play. You have to read up. And, I know for a fact that you have played games at least a few games before, and I know that this is not the first time you have heard some of these things.