Newbie 807 - Game Over

[Xtoxm]

Vote Count

crazy (2) Snow, Kichirou

dothefanfango (2) CDB, bgg
Kichirou (1) Cancer
Snow White (1) crazy

Not voting (1) dothefandango

[dothefandango]

I'm talking alot because I was instantly on the cutting block for simply following the bandwagon. I honestly didn't know I was doing myself harm.

I think there have been a lot more suspicious things going on here instead of me voting (and NOT lynching, I need to still point out) for Kard.

[Snow White]

@Dothefandango: What else have you found suspicious? Earlier you said you believed nothing was apt enough for you to question.

@Crazypianist: If you read my post you would see that i addressed why i thought Meji Fan was killed. Or did you simply choose to ignore the reason i gave? Do you require a link to refresh your memory?

Ill point my finger at who i feel a finger needs to be pointed at.

Yes, i could but votes tend to be more serious. FoS i use if i suspect someone as being scummy but for things that can easily be dismissed.

@bgg1996. Im looking forward to hearing from you too.

[dothefandango]

Things I find suspicious:
Meji Fan's death.
crazypianist not investigating the people that have votes for him before he votes for me.

CP has addressed the preceeding, but I still find it weird.

Either way, I am going to be away for the night, I might be able to sign in, so I will have to with-hold my vote from now. If I could ask that I not be lynched when I come back, that would be great .

[crazypianist1116]

Going to be away for the week with limited access. Hopefully I'll be on at least once (I wasn't lucky last time because the lynch happened before I had a say).

[CancerBottle]

So much stuff has happened. A lot of it surprised me. But I have made a few observations.

Vote: Snow White

Meji Fan was the sole person to vote for Snow White. Snow White, seeing that Meji Fan was the only one who suspected her, would want to kill Meji Fan to cut out those suspicions.

Interesting idea. Sounds a little overt, but it's possible. But as Meji pointed out, it could be a simple frame.

I think DTF is very suspicious today as well. In day 1 he barely talked at all, yet when he made a reason-less vote which caused a lynch, he talks a ton.

It might also be because he's got two votes on him. He's anxious to save his skin. Not necessarily pro or anit-town.

I'm not quite sure what you two are talking about but I have my own theories Vote: crazypianist1116

I too would like to hear why you're voting for me. I don't think CancerBottle needed to vote just to hear your reasons though, he could have merely asked you.

I tend to get answers quicker with votes. In addition, I didn't want to cast another vote on DTF, after what happened to Kard.

[Snow White]

I had nothing to worry about with Meji Fan's accusations.

Im innocent.

Correction CB: Im Snow and not Meji.

Its not an overt explanation to me because i know im innocent so logically someone was trying to frame me by killing Meji.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'll add my voice to those requesting elaboration from Kichirou.

I don't think it's very sensible to dig into the reasons behind nightkills. It's a big, murky pool of Wine In Front Of Me and outguessing and it's impossible to get actual evidence on. We can only go with what is said in the day.

[Kichirou]

I agree with snow someone was trying to frame her and push the magnifying glass away from them self so who was the person who had suspicions placed on them last round? Kard and Crazy we know it wasn't the Kard so that leaves Crazy and what do you know snow was voting for him.

[dothefandango]

Ok, back for a bit, this is what I have to say:

Meji died, her vote was for Snow, the only one. Two reasons why this could have happened: Frame Snow / Protect Snow.

I suppose this is a

MOD QUESTION:

In the given setup, there are a maximum of 2 mafia. This only allows for one lynching per night, correct? Or can each Goon/Roleblocker kill a separate person?

The mafiates have one group kill between them per night. - Mod.

[ChannelDelibird]

Ok, back for a bit, this is what I have to say:

Meji died, her vote was for Snow, the only one. Two reasons why this could have happened: Frame Snow / Protect Snow.

I disagree with this. It is entirely possible that scum killed Meji for reasons independent of Snow White. For example: scum thought meji had good logic and might be a threat later; scum wanted to kill meji because they thought that a hypothetical doctor might not protect her. That sort of thing. But the key point is that it all comes down to outguessing the scum, which is dangerous. Speculating about motives for nightkills doesn't rely on the facts of what people have said, and as such it isn't an effective way to find scum.

[dothefandango]

Hmm... all very suspicious.

There are many levels to the Meji argument, so maybe it's just best to lead with the info that's being put out in front of us. Unfortunately, Meji has the LEAST posts here, so we're grasping at air.

The Kard bandwagon (that everyone but Snow White, Meji, BGG, and Kirchirou were on) seems to be the key here guys. Meji is dead, and the person Meji pointed at is seemingly being framed. Something is going on here, and there is a missing piece. Someone is lying, and it's someone in an alpha role.

[dothefandango]

The point of starting a bandwagon, even for good purposes, is still starting a bandwagon, and I do think this sort of behavior needs to be looked at. I'm not incriminating you CDB, I just want more info on why you did it, maybe if you could sum it up in a few sentences?

[crazypianist1116]

Got access to a computer...

I agree with snow someone was trying to frame her and push the magnifying glass away from them self so who was the person who had suspicions placed on them last round? Kard and Crazy we know it wasn't the Kard so that leaves Crazy and what do you know snow was voting for him.

This is rather suspicious. Suspicions weren't really placed on me last round. Your logic is rather weak. Additionally the fact that you didn't explain your vote for me at all is scummy. It makes me want to

Vote: Kichirou

. As for my positions on other people:
DTF's question to the mod makes me think he isn't mafia.
CDB seems like he's either town or playing an extremely good game as mafia.
bgg1996 I have no clue about you.
Cancer Bottle hasn't made any scummy moves (except for that argument on Day 1).
Snow White may possibly be scum because she was so adamant about saying "I'm innocent, I know I'm innocent."

Sorry I can't write more, I don't have much time.

[crazypianist1116]

EBWOP: The fact that you explained your vote after the fact is scummy.

[Snow White]

@CDB. Are you saying that as scum or as a player?

It is also too, entirely possible that my reason is right.

FoS ChannelDeliBird

Meji's scumdar was broken and her "logic" (as you call it CDB) was as flawed as her vote. It would have made sense to keep her around as we would have been at loggerheads again today if she had lived through the night.

However, if i had my finger on CP who was mafia (hypothetically) it would make sense to kill Meji, frame Snow White (who Meji was most accusational of), Snow White would be caught up in questions and unable to accuse CP and have town lynch Snow White Day2. But then what if it is WIFOM? (Reverse, reverse, reverse psychology)

But co-incidentally, it was CP who first pointed out that I was Meji's

only

suspect. Even though i had already addressed that in an earlier post. It appears as though he just came in and wrote what Mafia may had planned.

Of course i could be just paranoid as hell. Im not saying you should all bandwagon CP, thats your choice, but for the time being, i like my vote.

Other than Meji Fan's death what else is there to go on atm?

[dothefandango]

Other than Meji Fan's death what else is there to go on atm?

As noted above, I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on the origin on the Kard bandwagon. Read up, the history before Kard's weird Unvote/Vote sequence is the most intriguing. Look at who was on the block and look at who no one was questioning at the end of the day? I don't want to point any figure yet -- but the FoS is quivering.

[ChannelDelibird]

@CDB. Are you saying that as scum or as a player?

I'm saying it as an IC.

It is also too, entirely possible that my reason is right.

FoS ChannelDeliBird

Yes, but why I am I suspicious for pointing out the alternatives? This is not a good FoS. My point is that while you could be right, there's no way to be at all sure on it because it all comes down to what the scum was thinking, and that's not something that we have a copy of in the thread to analyse. There are all sorts of possibilities, some but by no means all involve your reasoning, and we can't rule any of them in or out with any degree of certainty. Speculating about the nightkills is a very poor alternative to analysing posts.

Meji's scumdar was broken and her "logic" (as you call it CDB) was as flawed as her vote. It would have made sense to keep her around as we would have been at loggerheads again today if she had lived through the night.

I didn't say Meji's logic was good, nor did I say it was bad. I used the example to illustrate that there are possible reasons for a Meji kill that do not involve framing you or such like.

However, if i had my finger on CP who was mafia (hypothetically) it would make sense to kill Meji, frame Snow White (who Meji was most accusational of), Snow White would be caught up in questions and unable to accuse CP and have town lynch Snow White Day2. But then what if it is WIFOM? (Reverse, reverse, reverse psychology)

That's exactly what it is. You also deal in too many definites ("would") here rather than "might", because you seem to be implying that town should have autolynched you by now or something because of Meji's death.

But co-incidentally, it was CP who first pointed out that I was Meji's

only

suspect. Even though i had already addressed that in an earlier post. It appears as though he just came in and wrote what Mafia may had planned.

But maybe that's what the mafia were hoping someone would do after they killed Meji!
(I don't necessarily believe this, but my point is that the whole Mejideath angle is WIFOM)

Of course i could be just paranoid as hell. Im not saying you should all bandwagon CP, thats your choice, but for the time being, i like my vote.

If you genuinely think CP is scum then you

should

be saying we should bandwagon him.

Other than Meji Fan's death what else is there to go on atm?

dothefandango's Lynch-1 vote yesterday on Kard for one, but I'll find some more answers to this question when it's no longer 1AM.

[ChannelDelibird]

The point of starting a bandwagon, even for good purposes, is still starting a bandwagon, and I do think this sort of behavior needs to be looked at. I'm not incriminating you CDB, I just want more info on why you did it, maybe if you could sum it up in a few sentences?

Sure.

Kard made an admitted OMGUS vote. This struck me as strange (why would town want to do that? it's not scumhunting if it's OMGUS, and town should be trying to scumhunt), and so I voted Kard to put pressure on him to explain why he did it. Pretty sure I've said this before though.

[dothefandango]

I couldn't find it within the pages, thanks. I don't think it helps me at this point. The vote seemed extremely harmless, seeing as it was the first round. But, we were all hungry to look at suspicions, so for this I don't blame you.

I think that Meji's death is a complete red herring at this point, no in terms of that we should avoid Snow White, but there is as much likeliness that Snow White had a hand in it as anyone else did. The fact that she is so adamant to claim that she was framed (when no one else was really saying "hey that's the only one to vote for Snow White, get her!") makes me crazy suspicious.

Essentially I don't trust anyone right now.

[dothefandango]

Further, a vote for either party at L-2 right now would set up a possible quick lynch, which I want to avoid, considering that's the main reason I was thought of as scum today.

I'm waiting for someone to say something that I can say, "AHA!" and see what's happening.

[Snow White]

"AHA!" DTF at potential quicklynch. L-2. Innocents please remove votes until we can talk things through.

I commented on the great Kardwagon page five when i first replaced FadedLunar.

@CDB. I dont find OMGUS votes suspicious. Alot of people do it. Im even tempted to do it sometimes. Im pretty sure CP has done it to me at some point.

The way you phrased it implied my reason was to be thrown out and should be ignored. I dont think anything should be ignored.

[Kichirou]

huh? remove votes from who?

[dothefandango]

I don't get what you're saying Snow White.

[ChannelDelibird]

"AHA!" DTF at potential quicklynch. L-2. Innocents please remove votes until we can talk things through.

1) Nobody's at Lynch -2
2) We're not at LyLo, so in this situation, if scum quicklynched, they'd be incredibly obvious because we're clearly not ready to lynch anyone yet, so they'd be making themselves clear. Then we lynch them both the following days. So no need to really worry about a quicklynch unless we're in LyLo (we're not).

@CDB. I dont find OMGUS votes suspicious. Alot of people do it. Im even tempted to do it sometimes. Im pretty sure CP has done it to me at some point.

I didn't say I found the act of OMGUS itself suspicious. It was that Kard

announced

that it was OMGUS (normally one doesn't, and is promptly accused of OMGUS), because as he knew it was OMGUS, and as he immediately unvoted when the other guy unvoted him, he didn't appear to be using his vote to scumhunt.

That's

why I voted him.

The way you phrased it implied my reason was to be thrown out and should be ignored. I dont think anything should be ignored.

I absolutely implied it should be ignored, because we don't have enough in-thread evidence to support it. It's just conjecture and speculation about one of many equal possibilities. You do have to ignore things if they're not viable evidence.