Mini 788 - Fantasy Mafia [OVER]

[ortolan]

so, Kmd, what is your role please.

[ChannelDelibird]

unvote: Kmd

at least until this conversation is finished.

[Goatrevolt]

The Starbuck kill was a result of Sudo_Nym's stumping. If Ortolan is also a vig of sorts, then do we have two pro-town killing roles and yet the mafia failed to successfully land a kill? It's difficult to believe there are 2 dead from night 1 and both are the result of pro-town vig roles.

Having said that, though, Ortolan is totally right about KMD jumping to the conclusion that Orto is either a vig or a SK but ignoring the possibility that Ortolan is mafia, which is clearly the simplest explanation.

It would not shock me in the least bit to see:

Ortolan - Serial Killer
KMD - Mafia tracker

The alternative to Orto being a SK is that he is a second town killing role. That is possible, but seems less likely.

At any rate, I would love to see full claims from both of you.

I want KMD to claim first. Ortolan has already been locked into a specific enough subset of claims that I doubt he can modify his claim in any meaningful fashion if he's trying to fake it.

[Empking]

I'd like KMD to claim.

[Kmd4390]

Ok, that's 4 people who want me to fullclaim.

Blast-ended skrewt aka cop. I'm told that I may or may not get results, but any results I get will never fail. I got a guilty on Ort. I've already made him admit to submitting the only NK last night. He's as good as caught scum. Even if I am lynched, my flip will be more than enough reason to lynch Ort. So either way, we are lynching scum.

So no tracker abilities here. But it scared Ort into claiming the only NK, didn't it. XD

[ZazieR]

Vote Ortolan

[Goatrevolt]

Unvote, Vote Ortolan

Ortolan and if he's town, then KMD tomorrow, although I doubt KMD makes this claim unless Orto really is scum.

Also, Zazie + Dizzy are probably town as a result of Orto being scum.

Orange penguin looks fishy for immediately buying KMD's case which was pretty weak.

[Starbuck]

Don't setup lynches. It makes you look horrid.

[Kmd4390]

Don't setup lynches. It makes you look horrid.

I don't have a problem with it. There are only 2 ways Ort can be town:
A) I lied. I know this to be untrue.
B) The Mod lied. Sens wouldn't do that.

Although I did ask if scum meant mafia or just a non-town role and Sens declined on commenting. So it's possible that he's an SK or whatever else and not specifically mafia. I do have a 100% guarantee that he's scum though, whatever scum means to Sens.

[orangepenguin]

Orange penguin looks fishy for immediately buying KMD's case which was pretty weak.

Great logic there.

[Goatrevolt]

Don't setup lynches. It makes you look horrid.

I fail to see any issue with what I said. If KMD is lying about Ortolan being scum, then we should lynch KMD tomorrow. The likely explanation is that he's not lying, because scum have little motivation to 1 for 1 themselves this early in the game, so we should lynch Ortolan today. Besides, the only way Ortolan is town is if there are two town killing roles, which is unlikely, since he graciously admitted to the Sudo kill.

Orange penguin looks fishy for immediately buying KMD's case which was pretty weak.

Great logic there.

Thanks! But I'm serious. That case was pretty bad (no offense, KMD). You jumped aboard immediately without any underlying rationale, which looks more like a scum buddy hopping aboard the Ortolan bus than a townie legitimately buying the case.

[Shadow Knight]

@OP- is that what you call contributing more?

My thoughts right now are that Ort is SK, with OP and KMD as scum. The backstep by KMD about Ort's actual alignment makes me think he's scum covering his butt.

[orangepenguin]

I just thought the case was pretty solid. And now I am KMD's scum partner?

I do believe KMD's claim that Ort is scum. If he is mafia, then my guess for HIS scum partner would be Goat.

@ SK - Um, suure. I am not trying to prove myself are anything. But honestly, I feel more involved than I have been all game. So yes to your sarcastic comment.

[Goatrevolt]

No, I think you're Ortolan's scum partner. I don't think KMD is scum after that claim.

[Kmd4390]

Goat, you think OP would baselessly bus like that? I could see him as scum if Ort was town, but Ort is scum and I just don't see the connection.

SK, what backstep? Asking the Mod if scum meant mafia and finding out that it may or may not?

[orangepenguin]

Vote: Goat

I think you're Ort's partner, trying to distance yourself by accusing me.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: Goat

I think you're Ort's partner, trying to distance yourself by accusing me.

Valid connection to draw, but Ort needs to be lynched first.

[Goatrevolt]

Goat, you think OP would baselessly bus like that? I could see him as scum if Ort was town, but Ort is scum and I just don't see the connection.

Yeah, I think so. Has OP joined any other main wagons this game based on agreement with cases presented? Your case on Ortolan wasn't very strong, and is basically an "I investigated him and would prefer to case him first in hopes of avoiding having to claim" case. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it looks like in retrospect. It looked like you just patched together literally everything you could possibly find potentially scummy about Ortolan into a case. I think it is very odd that OP jumped on that case without any rationale.

[Goatrevolt]

Vote: Goat

I think you're Ort's partner, trying to distance yourself by accusing me.

And here he votes me over Ortolan, even though his case on me is based on Ortolan being scum.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, that's exactly what the case was. OP

is

the kind of player to jump on to things like that though. I'm really not reading him as scum right now, especially jumping on someone who I know to be scum the way he did. If Ort flips SK, I'd look at OP closer. But Ort-OP as mafia together? Not seeing it.

[Goatrevolt]

Yeah, doing a quick skim through OP's posts, I believe that's the first time he follows someone else's case this entire game. It seems far more likely that he sees a large case on his scum buddy and just agrees with it, thinking it's stronger than it actually is, than that he's a townie who finally found that case he was looking for all along.

[Goatrevolt]

Yeah, that's exactly what the case was. OP

is

the kind of player to jump on to things like that though. I'm really not reading him as scum right now, especially jumping on someone who I know to be scum the way he did. If Ort flips SK, I'd look at OP closer. But Ort-OP as mafia together? Not seeing it.

I've never played with him before, so I really have no clue what his meta looks like, but that vote on Ort raises all kinds of alarm bells, especially without any reasoning whatsoever.

[orangepenguin]

Vote: Goat

I think you're Ort's partner, trying to distance yourself by accusing me.

Valid connection to draw, but Ort needs to be lynched first.

True, which is why I am already voting Ort.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, that's exactly what the case was. OP

is

the kind of player to jump on to things like that though. I'm really not reading him as scum right now, especially jumping on someone who I know to be scum the way he did. If Ort flips SK, I'd look at OP closer. But Ort-OP as mafia together? Not seeing it.

I've never played with him before, so I really have no clue what his meta looks like, but that vote on Ort raises all kinds of alarm bells, especially without any reasoning whatsoever.

OP is barely a step above being a VI. He knows the game and (usually) posts pretty regularly, but he needs improvement (OP, don't take this as an insult). He's more likely to bandwagon or make a bad case than anything. And I don't see the baseless "me too" vote on Ort going to a scumbuddy. I see either a townie seeing a lot of words and agreeing OR scum looking for an easy case to follow. The only way OP is scum is if he is in a different scum faction than Ort.

Vote: Goat

I think you're Ort's partner, trying to distance yourself by accusing me.

Valid connection to draw, but Ort needs to be lynched first.

True, which is why I am already voting Ort.

Sens doesn't require unvoting.

[Goatrevolt]

OP is barely a step above being a VI. He knows the game and (usually) posts pretty regularly, but he needs improvement (OP, don't take this as an insult). He's more likely to bandwagon or make a bad case than anything. And I don't see the baseless "me too" vote on Ort going to a scumbuddy. I see either a townie seeing a lot of words and agreeing OR scum looking for an easy case to follow. The only way OP is scum is if he is in a different scum faction than Ort.

Can you explain why you don't see it going to a scumbuddy? You've said that a few times, but I want to understand why you think that is the case.

If I'm scum, and as bad of a player as you suggest, and I see someone post an enormous case on my scumbuddy, I will probably just assume it's a good case and hop aboard. This is literally the first time this game he has wagoned off of someone else's case, and I find it pretty suspicious that he did so off of a poor case on someone later revealed to be likely scum. My experience with new/weaker scum is that they love to bus.