Mini 767: Cubic Mafia (Game Over!)

[Mastin]

Idea:

FoS count. Where our current top suspect lies. From me, it's definitely on Channel. What about you, caf?

[caf19]

I'll put mine on Channel too, although I'm not sure how useful an FoS-count will be seeing as there are only three of us left.

Basically our hands may be forced by the impending deadline. Channel, the onus is on you to make a case and convince me, and unfortunately you only have a few days to do it.

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm going out in about an hour and a half, but I'm starting my analysis post and it will be up tomorrow. So plenty of time.

Also, my username is generally abbreviated to CDB.

[Mastin]

I'm going out in about an hour and a half, but I'm starting my analysis post and it will be up tomorrow. So plenty of time.

I expect a post before July 6th, 6:14 am my time.

Also, my username is generally abbreviated to CDB.

Eh, I dislike the abbreviation.

[Mastin]

Channel's cutting it close. "Tomorrow" ends in five hours and will have reached the 24-hour mark. (Of course, knowing the loose definition of "Tomorrow", I'd still give him another 12 or so hours, and if no post by then, Channel was lying about "tomorrow" for sure.)

[ChannelDelibird]

Channel's cutting it close. "Tomorrow" ends in five hours and will have reached the 24-hour mark. (Of course, knowing the loose definition of "Tomorrow", I'd still give him another 12 or so hours, and if no post by then, Channel was lying about "tomorrow" for sure.)

I am in GMT+1. I've just woken up after sleeping in. (It's 12:43 PM) Working on the post now.

[ChannelDelibird]

OK, let's look at Trumpet of Doom.

His first post that isn't a random vote is post 90, on page 4. By this time Nocmen and magnus were engaged in a big argument, which was the issue

du jour

. Post 90 fails to comment on this.

His second post is 125 on page 6. It announces some upcoming V/LA. Still no content yet, but some is promised within three or four days.

Third post is 186 on page 8. He's back, promises a post the next day.

His next post is 193, also on page 8. Defends lurking accusation, explaining he has been away for 5 days with band. Fair enough. Does not mention his lack of posts in the early pages, even when there were things to comment on. Claims his style is "sit back, let things happen and analyse for a distance" until much later in the game. Well that's promising. No comment on anyone else but himself yet.

His first content post is 212, on page 9. Throwaway comment on the Nocmen/magnus argument ("Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up". Cutting insight there). Expresses suspicion of Walnut for playing people off against each other and votes. Fair enough. Says no opinion on Phily (me) because he fits his meta. Hypocritically accuses RBT of lurking (acknowledges he has been lurking, but still a hypocrite). Says magnus/Dourgrim are probably both town. OK post, but no detail, no comment on many people (for a 9-page catch up. hmm) and hypocrisy.

Post six, 260, is on page 11. Now says the band V/LA is ongoing indefinitely. He didn't mention this before. You'd think this would mean he would take the opportunity to comment on as much as possible when he did have access, but all he does in this post is suggest that Phily is maybe playing a bit differently to when he saw him as town, but stresses that it's probably not enough to

really

be suspicious.

Post 290, on page 12. Also does nothing except to clarify that he actually meant that Phily is doing slightly different things but the net result is the same. So, I guess, it's not important after all. Which essentially makes this and the previous post completely

sans

comment. Great.

Doesn't comment again on Day 1, leaving his vote on Walnut as the town mislynches.

His eighth post is 381 (nearly 100 posts after his last), on page 16, at the start of Day 2. Again says "yeah, I know, I'm not posting. I'll try to improve but who really knows" (I paraphrase), makes unimportant kill flavour speculation and declines to comment further until BB shows up. Incredible that he chooses not to comment on all the action he missed.

Ninth post is 389, makes the obvious Isacc vote. Exactly what he should be doing (what everyone should be doing) but still no comment on what he missed, or anyone else in the game.

400 at the top of page 17 is, to be fair, a good post, my predecessor changed his position on power role evidence in scumhunting. Knowing as I do that he made this change as town, I can only assume that madeofphail decided, when the whole Isacc/B_B thing came up between his posts, that power role evidence could have an important effect and so realised he was originally wrong.

His eleventh post is 412 on page 17, at the start of Day 3. Follows through with his phailvote, fair enough I suppose. He also tries to conjure up a Philybus attempt on Isacc's behalf without corresponding evidence.

419 straddles the fence athletically on SSK ("he's not great (other people's evidence) [

I'll lynch him if he gets a wagon

] but there are scummier players [

If he turns up town I wasn't on the case!

]").

462 on page 19 is the next post, in which he's changed viewpoints again (Seraphim was apparently the scummiest player in the game rather than madeofphail). Doesn't say anything else (apart from criticising mod-confirmed Seraphim anyway).

465 reaffirms his phailvote. Also stresses how he would have voted Seraphim before the claim, seems like he's trying to be clear that he's in line with everyone else.

471 adds VI play to madeofphail's list of scummy traits, apparently. His confusion about the Innocent Child role screams newbtown/VI. Seriously.

And then, out of nowhere, in 500 at the top of page 21, he decides madeofphail is suddenly town and their whole disagreement is theory. That's an astonishing switch, and one that looks like it's been made because SSK is more likely to be lynched, and is duly accompanied by an SSK vote. Yes, I'm criticising him for deciding my predecessor was town. The circumstances are terrible.

507 is his seventeenth post, at the start of Day 4. Goes right out of the gate in LyLo with his KoC vote, using flimsy logic based on Isacc's scumlist. Looks like an excuse to bus KoC and turn back to caf/madeofphail the next day, because obviously no scum would bus their partner in LyLo. -_-

509 reaffirms his silly scumlist logic.

511 engages in some nightkill WIFOM, and asks the pointless "are you scum?" question. In my experience scum ask this question more than town, because it looks all clever and ironic but never has any real interrogational value.

517, his twentieth post, admits his Isacc scumlist argument is actually just WIFOM.

518 says it again.

522 says how outguessing what Isacc was trying to do is a big pile of WIFOM,

but tries to outguess him anyway

. Planting seeds in peoples' minds but making disclaimers if they lead in bad directions. It's scum tactics.

528, twenty-third post, at the top of page 22, is the standard addendum to KoC claim.

533 claims townie.

537 says "actually there could be a case on any of you" - wow. Sounds like he's waiting for someone else to make the case so he can agree with it and jump on.

538 just looks like an agreed bus between him and KoC.

542 also.

550, twenty-eighth, at the top of page 23, bumps the thread, asks for a phailprod. Nothing to see here.

553 introduces a somewhat weird system, collating who people think is scum. Apparently not trying to push his own argument any more, just going with whatever everyone else thinks. If I was in LyLo, I would not be allowing other people, including those I thought were scum, to help make the decision. He's just abdicating responsibility here.

557, thirtieth post, reveals the top two, who end up being the same as his anyway. Doesn't make up for the system he's created.

In 559 he's apparently considering the process-of-elimination method suggested by one of the two players he supposedly thinks are the scum. If he really thought phail was scum, then he should be worried about any new plan that he proposed, thinking that phail thinks he can escape suspicion that way.

562 pokes KoC.

565 admits to lurking Day 1 but for some reason rejects the logic that we should be wary of his greater posting amount late game. That's kind of why scum lurk, to cruise through the early game and seize control later when there are less players and he looks better for posting more.

566 reaffirms his KoC vote, and this is his last (thirty-fourth) post before replacing out.

So, that's all for Trumpet. Thirty-four posts in 23 pages, but

twenty-seven

of those were in the last 7 of those. Trumpet's behaviour is not consistent of town who suspects phail, but it's very consistent with lurkerscum who comes out of the woodwork late game when he thinks he can win.

Vote: Mastin

[caf19]

well i'm not hammering, let's have a read through.

[Mastin]

His first post that isn't a random vote is post 90, on page 4. By this time Nocmen and magnus were engaged in a big argument, which was the issue du jour. Post 90 fails to comment on this.

I look at Iso, not actual thread, so will check up on this.

*checks*

Oh, right.

The last thing said in this post was from Walnut. Specifically, Trumpet commented on this:

How about saying something startling and waking yourself up?

That was earlier on page four right here, and was the last he said. From what I see in those pages, the Magnus-Nocmen debate was still very small. Magnus voted Noc, then unvoted that same page shortly afterwards.

I don't see this alleged big argument before Walnut's post, which was the last thing Trumpet commented on. Very likely just catching up.
And when catching up, even if there is a huge debate, I tend to just skip it fairly often. Saves time if you don't think either is suspect.

His second post is 125 on page 6. It announces some upcoming V/LA. Still no content yet, but some is promised within three or four days.

V/LA is V/LA. Attacking someone for being V/LA-->Fail.

Third post is 186 on page 8. He's back, promises a post the next day.

And then delivers it on that later post on page eight, no?

Defends lurking accusation, explaining he has been away for 5 days with band.

V/LA is V/LA. Simple as that. Trumpet is obviously some sort of band player; that was obvious by the posts. Band's a devotion; I'd know from my short time as a percussionist. Stop attacking someone for real life circumstances. Trumpet was eventually replaced due to extended V/LA.

Fair enough.

Then Why mention it at all if it's not part of your case, Channel?

Answer: Fluff to buff up the case.

Does not mention his lack of posts in the early pages, even when there were things to comment on.

Thing is, his V/LA explanation WAS the mentioning his lack of posts in the early pages. V/LA-->Limited to no time to comment on the pages.

Along similar lines, I will have multiple band-related events through the end of the weekend;

if you don't see me posting, that's probably why

. (High school band in Texas = lots of work, especially with contest season approaching fast. VOTE: Add in that I'm in another band that's taking a trip to Louisiana this weekend, and... yeah.)[/b] I will have content after Sunday, though.

In a word, band.

I've had concerts each of the last three days, and yesterday's and today's were out-of-state, a good ways into Louisiana

. So, naturally,

I've had lots of rehearsals for each, plus my homework

.

I think

I also tend to be a "sit back, let things happen and analyze from a distance"-style player early on in games

, and especially with wall-o-texters such as yourselves. Not that I really have anything to back that up with, of course: Of my two completed games that I was in from the start, one was Killing Verse, where everyone was heavily post-restricted, where I was speedlynched D1, and where a lot of my posting was trying to defend myself against an overblown "case" on me; and the other was Rebels in the Palace, where I was trying to do number-crunching by hand for most of D1.

Basically, I tend to post more if I think I know what I'm doing, which doesn't happen much until late in the game.

Basically, he fairly well explains his actions here and here. I, too, sometimes have trouble getting into a game.
His very next post, however, he DOES get into the game, when there is some content to work off of, like he had promised.

Claims his style is "sit back, let things happen and analyse for a distance" until much later in the game. Well that's promising. No comment on anyone else but himself yet.

Nothing wrong with that. Commenting on oneself isn't a scum tell, and his next post DOES comment on others, Channel. He gets into the game right then and there.

His first content post is 212, on page 9. Throwaway comment on the Nocmen/magnus argument ("Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up". Cutting insight there).

Been cleared up-->Issue resolved-->No longer worth commenting on a great deal.

I'd think the same in Trumpet's position.

Expresses suspicion of Walnut for playing people off against each other and votes. Fair enough.

Again, why mention it if it isn't part of your case, Channel?

Says no opinion on Phily (me) because he fits his meta.

If someone matches their meta, it's null, and not worth commenting on. Like me in the RVS. It's null, and not worth commenting on. No problem here, either.

Hypocritically accuses RBT of lurking (acknowledges he has been lurking, but still a hypocrite).

Full quote:

Re: magnus/Nocmen: Nocmen's not great, but it seems to have been cleared up.

Walnut seems to have been trying to get B_B and magnus suspicious of each other, then not been happy when it didn't work. For that matter, he's been trying to make individual players suspicious of each other for much of the game, including apparently trying to make Nocmen look at RBT.

Phily... I'm rereading the (now finished) game where we were both town to see if I can get a read on him relative to how he's playing here. Seems about the same, so probably a nulltell.

RBT is lurking almost as much as I've been.

Re: magnus/Dourgrim: ...why do I feel like you're both going to flip town?

For reasons stated above, I feel most comfortable with a Vote: Walnut right now.

He wasn't making an accusation, Channel. He was making an observation. As it was an observation, there was no hypocrisy. He was stating a simple fact/opinion. Not making it scummy.

Try again, shall we?

---

This is just a small section of my counter-argument. It's already long, so I'll post it and respond to the rest.

Channel, as you can see, I will attempt to defend my predecessor. What about you?

[Mastin]

Oh, and reading the above:

Nothing wrong with that. Commenting on oneself isn't a scum tell, and his next post DOES comment on others, Channel. He gets into the game right then and there.

He mentions having defended himself a great deal in his previous games.

Of my two completed games that I was in from the start, one was Killing Verse, where everyone was heavily post-restricted, where I was speedlynched D1, and

where a lot of my posting was

trying to defend myself

against an overblown "case" on me

;

His meta supports him defending himself. I didn't include the link in my quote, but if you look back, you can find it.
------

Says magnus/Dourgrim are probably both town.

Well, Dour was making good points at a quick glance. And Magnus WAS town and likely was making equally (if not stronger) points.

So?

OK post, but no detail, no comment on many people (for a 9-page catch up. hmm) and hypocrisy.

IF it were an accusation, yea, it'd be hypocrisy.
It wasn't. It was a comment, a note, an observation. Call it whatever you wish along those terms, but it was no accusation.

He didn't put much detail into it at that point in time, but got into more detail later on in his posts. It's fine not putting detail into posts when catching up.

Take me. Would you rather have me quote almost everything, even from dead players, in catching up?

Or just the summary of what has happened?

Yea, especially from me, the latter. Most people agree. Few think that it's best to give a lot of detail catching up, in fact.

What makes it anything worth truly commenting on, Channel?

---
Also, if it's an "okay post", what about the supposed hypocrisy? Wouldn't that make it less than an okay post?

Now says the band V/LA is ongoing indefinitely. He didn't mention this before.

1: Again, you're attacking a person for being V/LA.

2: He was mentioning specific instances of being V/LA. Now he was further explaining why.

3: And again, what makes this worth commenting on?

You'd think this would mean he would take the opportunity to comment on as much as possible when he did have access, but all he does in this post is suggest that Phily is maybe playing a bit differently to when he saw him as town, but stresses that it's probably not enough to really be suspicious.

That was a comment, no? Expressing a possible doubt in the meta he had before. That's pro-town. And what do you know? He was right.

Let's go look at the full post to check out on that theory:

Yes, I'm lurking ungodly amounts. Yes, I still have Internet. Yes, I'm trying to follow the game. No, the walls of text aren't making it easier. Yes, band is going to be a long-term thing, and I'm not really sure when it's going to end.

Hmm... on second thought, Phily is acting a bit differently. My experience with him comes from this game. He mainly talked about one player D1 (speculated that the guy could be a jester), claimed to be suspicious of numerous people throughout the game (though D1, it was primarily in relation to the player who ended up being the D1 lynch), and self-voted, leading to his own lynch. Here, he's really only shown suspicion of two players (Magnus, B_B). I'm not sure if it's enough of a difference to warrant a statement that "OMGOMG HE'S ACTING DIFFERENTLY HE MUST BE SCUM", though.

The full post.

He explains that his V/LA will be an extended thing. And that he's trying to catch up, but Walls of Text slow him down. And comments on the fact that, on second thought, Phily's meta is different.

Also, looking at that post reminds me:

Dour was attacking HEAVILY Magnus and B_B. Phily was saying both of them were suspicious. Dour flipped scum, Magnus and B_B both flipped town. Chainsaw defense, anyone?

---

Ack. It happened again; this post is too long. <_<

[Mastin]

Post 290, on page 12. Also does nothing except to clarify that he actually meant that Phily is doing slightly different things but the net result is the same. So, I guess, it's not important after all. Which essentially makes this and the previous post completely sans comment. Great.

Post with an accusation-->Slight suspicion.
Clarifying that things are slightly different-->Still pointing out a different in meta.
Net result the same after clarification-->The suspicion is still there,
NOT that it means nothing at all.

You just claimed the opposite of the truth, Channel. Now, let's go back to Trumpet's actual post for confirmation on this matter, shall we?

Not really, no. Or at least, that wasn't really the impression I meant to convey. What I meant to say was that while I'm not sure he's doing exactly the same things he did, the overall quality of his play is about the same. Nothing's obviously different. (Other than the lurking, but I'm guilty of that too, and my physics project won't help.)

Okay, so he was saying that while he was thinking that Phily was acting a little differently, it wasn't a huge suspicion or anything. A good clarification.

This is NOT what you were saying, Channel.

Post 290, on page 12. Also does nothing except to clarify that he actually meant that Phily is doing slightly different things but the net result is the same. So, I guess, it's not important after all. Which essentially makes this and the previous post completely sans comment. Great.

Doesn't seem to match up with

Not really, no. Or at least, that wasn't really the impression I meant to convey. What I meant to say was that while I'm not sure he's doing exactly the same things he did, the overall quality of his play is about the same. Nothing's obviously different. (Other than the lurking, but I'm guilty of that too, and my physics project won't help.)

Doesn't comment again on Day 1, leaving his vote on Walnut as the town mislynches.

And was liking the vote less later on in the day. Wasn't active enough to change it.
Or so my memory tells me. Iso reads, last week's memories, television blazing, not mixing well.

His eighth post is 381 (nearly 100 posts after his last), on page 16, at the start of Day 2. Again says "yeah, I know, I'm not posting. I'll try to improve but who really knows" (I paraphrase)

That's some paraphrasing!

"...and the Understatement of the Week Award goes to caf19!"

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been notPosting, I get it. I'll try to be better about that. No guarantees, though, what with major testing starting tomorrow. (Speaking of which, I really oughta go to bed now.)

He was, again, V/LA. I wouldn't be here if he wasn't V/LA most of this game.
It's not a scum tell to be V/LA. It's a lack-of-good-foresight-I-shouldn't-have-signed-up-tell.

makes unimportant kill flavour speculation

Nope.

I think it would be beneficial to see what role provided these kills. Reason being I'd rather lynch something scum or a serial killer rather than something like a vig.

Madeofphail said the above,
And Trumpet was quoting THAT.

Well, if you look at the kill flavor... I mean, I think it's pretty obvious what roles killed which players.

Waiting to hear what B_B has to say before I really make a move.

Was waiting on B_B to comment, one of only a few to have not done so at that point in time.

He was responding to madeofphail. If you make the accusation, you have to make it against him as well, and he's your predecessor.

Exactly what he should be doing (what everyone should be doing) but still no comment on what he missed, or anyone else in the game.

So? He was voting and gave good, solid logic behind the vote. That's exactly what he should've done.
BB agreed.

Nice and logical agreement. Nice.

Anyway, shall we continue to lynching Isacc?

Your predecessor, at that same time?

This post.

We Don't even know the roles, so what is to say there even is a watcher or tracker?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theory:
Possibilities:
1).One of these is scum covering their ass, and the other is town.
A). BB is scum trying desperately to Lynch Isacc for some reason.

B). Isacc is scum reaching for straws to defend himself. (no way to back up the fact that he is tracker, anyone could have made their argument after BB said that he targeted magnus.)
----------------------------------------------
Statements:
Quite frankly, I'm not at all happy with both players doing something like this. I'm fairly sure that at least one of them is right, and so whichever one is not fakeclaiming just gave the scum (or possibly non-town aligned killing role.) a free power role kill! Not a smart move on either person's part...

Why bring power roles into scumhunting this early? You're helping out power roles early in the game! That being said, Trumpet of doom makes a good case that BB is telling the truth because it was unprovoked claim. So Im gunna agree with you guys on this point.

Casts doubt on BOTH of them, speculates both could be scum, wild theory with little speculation, and seemingly fence-sitting...

Vote:Isacc

Yet still ends up bandwagonning Isacc for the reasoning given by my predecessor.

Try again, Channel.

400 at the top of page 17 is, to be fair, a good post, my predecessor changed his position on power role evidence in scumhunting. Knowing as I do that he made this change as town, I can only assume that madeofphail decided, when the whole Isacc/B_B thing came up between his posts, that power role evidence could have an important effect and so realised he was originally wrong.

1: You're admitting to points against you.

2: And this is not a case against me, Channel.

3: I remember something about madeofphail's posts besides what was pointed out. I can't remember it at this very moment; will check shortly.

---

Be back soon. Still working on it.

However, I might not be back for a while. Before I forget,

Mastin Votes: Channel

. My case, and the bad points I've seen Channel raise thusfar supposedly against me, makes this a fairly obvious vote.

[Kairyuu]

-sigh-

Breaking out the prodstick . . . again . . . for everyone

.

[Kairyuu]

Votecount 1 of D5:

Mastin(1):

ChannelDelibird

ChannelDelibird(1):

Mastin

Not Voting (1):

caf19

With three alive, it's 2 to lynch.

Deadline is in 3 days

.

[Mastin]

My bad. Heh. Was finishing, once and for all, a real-life project, which is now done and will no longer bother me. (Had been for months. <_<)

[caf19]

I have something in the pipe. I gotta go to bed now, but I'll post it tomorrow.

[Mastin]

Cutting it a bit close, no? If deadline is reached, then I'd be lynched due to Channel having held the tied vote on me longer, correct?

No. It would count as a No Lynch, since there are less than 7 players alive.

[Mastin]

No. It would count as a No Lynch, since there are less than 7 players alive.

Well, No Lynch, loss, same thing; Channel would just submit a NK of either of us for a win.

[caf19]

Well, here I am. I don't plan on taking too much time on this decision whatever the case, because now that it's down to one of you two it basically becomes an 'interpret my past actions in a better light' contest.

The form of CDB's case somewhat surprises me, because instead of assessing both the other players, he just picks one of them, does a PBPA and votes him. It seems to indicate that the assumption of Trumpet's scumminess was there from the start, which it shouldn't have been from a town perspective.

A lot of CDB's points are naturally relating to Trumpet's lack of content early on. Of course, Trumpet's lurking is highly irritating. He did post this in 193 though:

Basically, I tend to post more if I think I know what I'm doing, which doesn't happen much until late in the game.

which seems to have characterised his personality in this game quite well. In Mini 751, he has a broadly similar behaviour pattern as town. I don't think we can logically call it a scumtell in this game.

As for Mastin's case on Phily/phail, it's comprehensive but a lot of it seems to be 'nit-picking', focusing perhaps unnecessarily on very minor transgressions. I gather that this is Mastin's standard style of play, but nevertheless I'd prefer to rely on my own judgment... that said, there is a clear difference in personality between ToD and phail. Looking through Trumpet's posts, they are generally infrequent and sparse but full of sound logic when they do appear. The posts of Phily and phail tend to be more frequent, but regularly contain questionable logic or lines of thought. Let's take post 399.

I think Issac is scum because my conclusions have been:
1). BB isn't lying. I'm pretty sure for a few reasons.

a). he specifically calls out a specific person, scum don't try to get a mislynch so specifically (at least not in my experience).

I).This is because they will nightkill strong players who will not be mislynched easily. After reading the flavor, it does make it clearer that magnus was the mafia kill, and this matter proves this point. Mafia don't care who gets mislynched, as long as somebody does. Mafia generally don't press incredibly hard on someone's lynch.

b). He claims in rebuttal, instead of just trying to undermine the claim of BB.
II).A pro-town power role claiming in Day 2 is really suspscious if it is unprovoked. It looks like they are just trying to gain immunity early in the game. But Isacc defend himself with a claim. This seems to suggest that even he aknowledges that BB is really the power role watcher, and that he scrambles to think of a semi-likely explanation to defend himself. But Isacc goes on to believe that He is scum, even though he practically aknowledged that BB is the watcher.
---------------------------------------------

But just for the sake of argument, lets present ourselves with the hypothetical situation of Isacc telling the truth. In which case I have a question:
Why would he investigate BB in the first place? What makes BB seem like a likely scum candidate worthy of being watched?

This longish extract seems to miss the real reasons why he should be voting Isacc (which Trumpet managed to sum up in one line, and phail had even referred to in his previous post). Why post this, then? To give the impression of a townie thinking through his plays? To pad out a distancing/bussing manoeuvre?

Post 424 as well,

well, Im suspicious of Mafia SSK, after looking at his posts, he seems rather opportunistic. Not really putting much into his own words, so that seems like wagoning to me. and if we look at he Isacc lynch(who was actually scum), we see:

The probability of Isacc being scum is way higher than that of BB being scum. He's definitely the right lynch.

I think everyone should check in before we rush to end the day though. Nocmen, Seraphim - what do you think of events thus far?

QFT. Vote Issaac

so, if he is scum, then he kinda wagoned his partner. this may have been for distancing purposes, or because at that point Isacc was practically obv scum. After he votes isacc putting him at L-1, this happens:

Alright. Isacc is scum.

Vote: Isacc

Isacc then turns up scum.

----------------------------------------------
I'm not so worried about Seraphim, But I got a hunch about mafiassk. I, like seraphim, don't liek to use meta as a defense, because if that became widespread, people would establish invincible metas in order to gain lynch immunity. For example, a random player could constantly write off any slips due to "playing style". But this one-line posting and opportunism makes me nervous.

Furthermore, that doesn't help scumhunting to just agree and vote. I think that If mafiassk is scum, he joined the isacc wagon in order to distance himself.

This is strange logic again - he appears simply to be picking someone at random off the Isacc wagon and suspecting them. He can't even come up with a good reason why SSK is scum - it's just a "hunch". Again, doesn't seem very protown.

The question is, is this the mark of a scumbag, or merely of a townie who presented his arguments in a clumsy manner? I think the fact that Phily/phail/CDB has cycled through several players, all of whom have shown something scummy about them, is an indication of the former. Even CDB doesn't seem too enthusiastic about scumhunting. At least I'm confirmed so I have an excuse to slack off (lulz) - CDB has some serious convincin' to do, but he seems to be approaching it as if it were a chore. This to me is more indicative of scum who had to fabricate everything, rather than town who is assured of his own veracity. I take Mastin's eagerness as a nulltell because as far as I can tell it's his meta, but I don't think CDB is always this reticent.

--

So, the razor's edge. Last time I was here, it was a similar situation - one player was talkative but infrequently committed suspicious acts, whereas the other was just null and lurky. Naturally, I voted the scummy guy and got it wrong. Well, here I am again, making the same mistake again, but I feel like I might have got it right this time.

Vote CDB

This game's been a lot of fun by the way.

[ChannelDelibird]

Thank god for that. My predecessors (madeofphail particularly) were obvscum and I just couldn't find any angle to get out of that. Really didn't want to just give up and vote myself, though, for the sake of the integrity of the game, so thanks caf for putting me out of my misery.

Well played both of you, particularly to Mastin whose mammoth case gave me absolutely no wriggle room.

(Though I would still like to note that, while 99% of my case on Trumpet was complete bullshit, I was never implying that V/LA was scummy. My point was that there were times were he was active

without

announced V/LA, and that was suspicious [though, obviously, it wasn't. I just don't want anyone thinking I'm voting people for being V/LA >_>])

[Kairyuu]

Final votecount of D5:

ChannelDelibird (2): Mastin; caf19
Mastin (1): ChannelDelibird

CDB has been lynched. He was the

Mafia Roleblocker

. Town wins!

Full setup as follows:

Walnut - vanilla
magnus_orion - vanilla
riceballtail - vanilla
MafiaSSK - vanilla
caf19 - vanilla
Mastin - vanilla
Nocmen - 1-shot Vigilante
Seraphim - Innocent Child
Beyond_Birthday - Watcher

ChannelDelibird - Mafia Roleblocker
Isacc - Mafia Goon
Knight of Cydonia - Mafia Goon

Action history:

N1

Nocmen kills riceballtail
Isacc kills magnus_orion
Beyond_Birthday watches magnus_orion
madeofphail blocks riceballtail

N2

Knight of Cydonia kills Dourgrim
madeofphail blocks Beyond_Birthday
Beyond_Birthday watches Dourgrim (blocked)

N3

Knight of Cydonia kills Seraphim
madeofphail blocks Beyond_Birthday
Beyond_Birthday watches Seraphim (blocked)

N4

ChannelDelibird kills Beyond_Birthday
ChannelDelibird blocks caf19
Beyond Birthday watches ChannelDelibird

Feel free to discuss the game now. I'll try to get my thoughts up later tonight or tomorrow.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Well, that was depressingly predictable. I actually didn't even notice the "doc claim setup" that you guys mentioned.
Looking back, maybe a tracker to BB's watcher might have made more sense.

[magnus_orion]

Note to self: People getting angry at you is not a towntell. Otherwise, keep doing what you've been doing.

[Beyond_Birthday]

Well Magnus, but you're glad we were on the same team this time. So easy by the end...
Thanks Kairyuu for a good game!

[Mastin]

Mm-hm. I had fun replacing in.

What'd you think of me instantly locking into Phail being scum?
"Note to self: Never let Mastin replace into a game if I want the scum to win."?

[caf19]

Congrats townies.

I'm fairly happy with my performance this game.