Open 156 - Friends and Enemies - Game Over before 816

[Santos]

/confirmed

[Santos]

I forgot about this mafia. Sorry.

1) I hate math. I went to school for something else completely on the other end of the spectrum.
2) Hi, Kise. My contribution so far is just probably being annoyed with the mathematical battle that is going on in the thread so far.
3) I like ZazieR posting this way as opposed to her restricted posting style in Skywalker Mafia by zwet. That was awful reading her posts.
4) At the moment, I don't feel a need for a random vote as it seems we have a few pitched battles going on around the math discussion.
5) Exalt answering Sho about policy lynches would be nice.
6) Sho's examples of players and their hated game play styles is something I really admire seeing someone else stand up and take a stand against the hate on those play styles...but in the end, as I've noticed rereading my past games, can be a huge distraction for the town. Its a learning process of course, because once we're able to adhere our posting style and contribute to the thread with being an enormous distraction we're sure to make for better mafia players.

I'm going to bed, and again, sorry I forgot I was in this.

[Santos]

6) Sho's examples of players and their hated game play styles is something I really admire seeing someone else stand up and take a stand against the hate on those play styles...but in the end, as I've noticed rereading my past games, can be a huge distraction for the town. Its a learning process of course because once we're able to adhere our posting style and contribute to the thread

without

being an enormous distraction, then we're sure to make for better mafia players.

^fixed bolded.

Vote Count #3

"Hey ZazieR, weren't you FrankiePeanuts a minute ago?" asked muzzz.

"Umm... nope, I've definitely always been here. Yep, definitely." replied ZazieR.

Exalt (2) - Debonair Danny DiPietro, Raivann
Santos (2) - Sho Minamimoto, Kise
Debonair Danny DiPietro (2) - Toro, itacv2
Toro (1) - ZazieR
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz
Kise (1) - ekiM

[Santos]

@ Kise, sure. I was about to say that Exalt's link of Sho being a troll was just about to change my opinion of him, but having read Sho's explanation of his opinion on policy lynches is much more mature than the link leads you to believe.

[Santos]

It was DDD that wanted Exalt to comment on policy lynches...so DDD, what do you think of Exalt's response?

[Santos]

Personally, I've played in a game where self-voting has caught scum and lynched a townie, so I'm not sure how its setting a trap...am I understanding the context of what you are saying?

[Santos]

Can I buy a vowel first?

[Santos]

Unvote?

Vote: Raivann

I want to know moar.

[Santos]

I've done my

portion

of voting, so I would like my

fraction

of reason behind your reasons to say that DDD

[Santos]

State your reason how according to you this will help.

My reason, according to me, is that it will help me know more.

[Santos]

Whether or not to believe if DDD just claimed cop or not.

[Santos]

haha, I'm in way too many mafias :p

I rescind my reason(s)

[Santos]

Opinion of DDD's explanation?

I like it.

[Santos]

Now with reasons?

It had logic and substantial evidence.

As for pulling my weight, I've just neglected to read rules in every game I play. This accounts for my problems as a mafia player. I'm learning.

[Santos]

Unvote

I thought there was a cop in this game. Now I'm just not liking the use of meta DDD used to prove Raivann simply on a chance of 50/50, as it appears the meta is exemplary of a null-tell, IMO.

Vote Count #7

Debonair Danny DiPietro (3) - Toro, itacv2, Raivann
itacv2 (2) - ekiM, ZazieR
Santos (1) - Kise
Raivann (1) - Debonair Danny DiPietro
Sho Minamimoto (1) - muzzz

[Santos]

First, why are you not quoting me in chronological order? Are you trying to set something up on me?

[Santos]

Is that so?

You betcha.

Why the change in your stance?

Because it had meta-fail in it and I no longer find it plausible to follow considering I was a dumb ass and wasn't paying attention that there is no cop in this game. Now I just feel sheepish.

@Santos: I expect you to answer Zazie's question regardless of her answer, so you might as well just do it now. The longer you wait, the less plausible it becomes.

Alrighty.

Santos for not voting anyone and just hoping town mislynches on its own

Where?

Also, post 190 and 191 I'm agreeing with at the moment. Is she a suspect? Sure, townies aren't always the ones who lead the games with questions.

Secondly, when I say noted, it means that I remember it as I find it scummy.

So its 'noted' that I questioned how you are quoting me out of chronological order = scummy when you didn't explain what you were doing in the first place? Have you quoted anyone else out of chronological order? It just threw me off as incredibly suspicious because it seemed like you were trying to set up some sort of elaborate attack on me no matter what my response would be to your questions. That is why I was getting defensive about it.

So, ZazieR, is my question about that ^ still 'noted/scummy' now that we've cleared the water?

----------------------------
Hey, what is 'zetta'?

And I would like Kise to catch up and post an analysis.

[Santos]

You do realize that you've basically done a 180 some 24 hours after the facts, right?

You've played with me before, right? :p Or were you dead already when I replaced in and watched how I played? I'm an atrocious player often times. Usually when I'm not so outspoken I get the 'OMG SANTOS IS NOT POSTING' deal.
But to answer you, yes, 180, 360, 1080, they're not impossible to do, just unlikely to happen in a mafia game where you could be lynched for less. Usually I tend to make a dramatic case of something, but then just end up tunneling on someone instead of trying to open the causeway and breathe in other's ideas, speculations, concerns, suspicions, etc.

---------------------------

I look forward to Exalt's case and input from Kise.

Also, muzzz, where do your thoughts lie?

[Santos]

Check our ongoing game in which you have flipped.

Which one? Most recently, probably the last 5-10 games I've flipped town.

[Santos]

You''re trying to make me look scummy, when I''m questioning your motives behind your opinion.

You might be thinking I'm making it scummy, but for others to see this as well it would have to be pointed out, otherwise this is just your opinion. And even if it is the case that I am making you look scummy, its your complete inability to move from the fence you're standing on. Choose a side already; you are looking scummier and scummier every 'note' you take and 'note' you 'note.'

[Santos]

Where am I on the fence?

Santos, you accuse Zazie of fence-sitting. She has made a case and placed a real vote. You have not.

Mostly with all your notes about some players. I should read back though and see why itacv2 is her choice for today. I don't recall anything particularly scummy about him, plus I've been a bit lazy over the weekend. Mainly, I was just bugged by her 'notes' but I guess I was just being grossly trite about all her questions; they really stick out and I'm probably tunneling, which normally happens for me, so I'm trying to back off singling someone out and look at the whole playing field. It just seems odd that she'd bother doing her 'notes' still when she's already picked her prize for today.

Looking at Raivann, recently, he is all over the place while my vote hasn't been contributed anywhere. Since we're on the far end of the spectrum in the voting department, maybe Kise can humor us with something when he's back. I'm sure there's much to look at.

[Santos]

@ ZazieR, I'm not sure what you're asking for in a game I can provide you...do you mean a game where I've tunneled someone and they turned out to be _________ (fill in the blank)?

[Santos]

I can't think of one.

I'll bite: what was the point of asking me for that?

[Santos]

I've only played one game with her.

I've played a few games with you. I just found it troubling that all your questions cannot be deciphered as a scum-tell or a town-tell. Its incredibly a null-tell, IMO because you always have questions out and play the same in every game I've played with you. So why are your 'notes' in any way important for you to note to us in the first place if you know what you're thinking about us already? Why not just post a scum list and go from there?

When you make these notes, do you put them in a Word document or something? I really don't understand how useful they are unless you do massive rereads, but then are unable to participate in other games. Are you just more focused here?

[Santos]

Heh, you showing me anything of your meta isn't going to help my opinion of you here. Until you strike gold in an accusation you stick by in finding a scum, then my Mafia instinct is telling me not to trust your null-tell questions, notes and 'ctrl + f's!!! :p

[Santos]

Zazie, I know why I messed up in biting to get an answer out of DDD, but where, again, are your questions towards DDD and his ballsy move to go straight for Raivann?

[Santos]

If your meta proves 100% scum finding every game, then I will believe you in this game are doing a superb job of scum hunting.

Also, I am not much of a meta user. It can be useful (check out my case against SensFan for strong plurality between games he and I have shared), but I

don't

rely on it as much.

However, I now feel it appropriate to say that itacv2 is being bullied into a lynch. This is the impression I am getting when it was clearly DDD bullying Raivann to a lynch earlier So what? There are now repercussions for what DDD did? What's the deal?

[Santos]

I just noticed a few things from that link you provided, Zazie.

Out of Raivann or itacv2, which of their play today would be more indicative of scum - minus Sho/Exalt/Kise lack of doing any scumhunting today?

Also, the reason I was beginning to tunnel on your questions and notes was because I wasn't the only one being bothered by it. But now that I consider it a null-tell, the argument against your play style has no substantial evidence...unless someone can provide otherwise? *looks at those who have basically said what I said to Zazie about her play style*

Also, after doing a brief skim of the thread again, I would be up for lynching Raivann, Sho or Kise.

Kise - where is he (besides being gone?)
Sho - he seems to have given up in the later days in contribution?
Raivann - he is a very spastic voter (this does not include what DDD has said about his meta)

I think I must get some sleep because I'm seeing too many scum pairs at the moment with hardly any substantial evidence to back it up with. At this moment, as it was mentioned I have not put my vote anywhere yet, I will

Vote: Kise

because the day is still long and I would like input from him on the day's activities when he returns. This vote is not to indict him as scum, but more so to just get him to participate as I feel its only fair that he should given the many different stances (and growing sides) observed in this game so far.

*and by 'growing sides' I mean which players I've noticed that are tending to get side by side with each other as opposed to broadening their scope of the players in this game (kind of exactly what Zazie does, but since her play style is a null-tell, IMO, I would like to see more from the other players playing like her and, for lack of a better word, 'attacking' all players instead of just a few.)

[Santos]

So the reason that you didn''t question BSG was because?

I was still fairly new to the site here and wasn't fully adept to having a unique scum hunting skill to use in every game I play.

If you disagree, then why aren''t you trying to start a wagon on the player you want lynched?

I'm for Kise, however, when you posted I was stating my case and then posted after you posted.

And I want this explained, as I see no reason why you should have pointed this out:

It is full of meta-fail which I now accept pertaining to you. So if itacv2 flips scum today, then I definitely see a more pro town side to you = more credibility in your questions, notes, and 'ctrl + f'

Also, as a side note to you, your conversations with DDD kind of tapered off into nothing about his advocation to lynch Raivann earlier. Do you think DDD is clean of his use of meta against Raivann?

[Santos]

regarding BSG: you're asking me why I didn't ask her about all her questions.
1) I don't remember that game well at all.
2) I wasn't using meta when I first joined here at all.
3) my only scum hunting skill is when I find people bashing people who end up being townies.
4) what are you still trying to attain from bringing up such an old game; and one game for that matter?

regarding Kise: yes, my vote is to get him participating. I guess pressure is a good word to describe it as well, but its more for participation. (yes, i know he's gone, but that doesn't excuse anything for when he's expected back)

regarding DDD, why do you think he has been so 'chill' with you this game? He's hardly suspicious of you which screams to me that he has the fullest confidence in your play style (while I don't have the fullest confidence in your play style to think you're always town)

[Santos]

The aggression was there, but I'm backing it off because its a null-tell, IMO.

Why is it unbelievable? It happened. You don't believe it happened or what?

[Santos]

^That is what I was thinking about ZazieR-scum.

So uh, Kise should be around. However, seeing as he will need a proper replacement,

Unvote

[Santos]

Did you seriously ask that question after all the debate that happened early in the game?

Yes.

[Santos]

I've had a bad feeling about Santos. He hasn't made a real vote all game as far as I can see. He followed DDD onto Raivann, said he liked the logic, then did a 180. Later he voted Kise for inactiveness and later unvoted. Why no real votes? What are his real suspicions?

I already explained why I messed up about the DDD votes on Raivann. When Kise looked like a lost cause, no support to get him in the thread, I unvoted. At this point in the game I wouldn't have a problem lynching ZazieR because
1) She is scum hunting almost too hard for her own good
2) Her play is incredibly null-tell

However, itacv2's defenses are rather crap.

Unvote?

Vote: itacv2

Lets do this.

[Santos]

1) Having a town leader might prove to be too trustworthy and totally overlooked.
2) Her play style is a null-tell as it is in every game she plays. You seem like you're talking about null-tells in general. Why are you not addressing what I've specifically addressed?
3) Kise was replaced by ConfidAnon and he has contributed nicely as I wanted.
4) What's with the vote? You've simply voted without any reason.

[Santos]

So you're voting me for unvoting Kise?

[Santos]

dude, i said why. Whats a matter with you?

[Santos]

^that.

[Santos]

What is my change of behavior?

[Santos]

As for 790, Zazie, why are you using a broken game to analyze my behavior here?

[Santos]

What is wrong with Itacv2's partner claiming?

ZazieR, from the few games I've played with you you post the same way. Its not only meta that contributes to what I think about you, but your play style.

My behavior in 790 was to win just the same as it is here. However, the longer I live and the fewer players that are around I do try to become more intense in my analysis. So far, it seems as we have some good information to prod with in confirming our masons today. From there we can begin to pick apart Zazie-town or Zazie-scum.

[Santos]

Unvote

[Santos]

How many times are you going to ask for something you can get yourself?

Strawman? Am I going crazy or is this becoming enormously circular?

As far as the meta I was talking about you and in this game I remember skywalker mafia the most.

[Santos]

**** it.

Unvote?

Vote: ZazieR

for tunneling. You know you're letting me distract you way too much; enough for you to

trrryyy

and find the simplest thing to pin me as scum and its not gonna be the meta, girl. No way, no how.

[Santos]

Why, please?

I still remain skeptical of ZazieR. She grew extremely quiet towards Exalt's end.

[Santos]

here.

[Santos]

Vote: Sho

for posting much to incoherently for me to understand for it to be a L-1 vote on Exalt. Everything in his last post overshadowed any good reason for his vote to be cast on Exalt except for it looking very opportunistic to let a townie lay the hammer.

[Santos]

muzzz, who is scum?

[Santos]

Vote: ZazieR

. Its been nagging all game long I tell ya.

[Santos]

Expect sporadic play over the next few days. I am changing residence.

[Santos]

Sorry for any game inconvenience.

[Santos]

I just want to see her flip scum. Earlier in the game is enough about why I want her to die today.

[Santos]

eKim, are you suggesting Kise is bussing?

[Santos]

Lack of game participation is not my fault here, mod. lol I voted ZazieR.

So Kise is using meta and is essentially saying I'm clear. He votes muzzz, claims cop. I am inclined to follow, but now I just feel insulted by Kise as a D1 policy lynch just because I'm terrible during D1's :p

[Santos]

Oh, by the way, is ZazieR replaced or am i jumping at shadows with the lack of activity in the game thread?

[Santos]

haha

[Santos]

LLLLLYYYYNNNNNNNCCCCCHHHHHHH ZazieR!!!! Do it for the win!

[Santos]

Yeah, I'm bored.

MOAR VOTES ON ZAZIER for reasons I've stated earlier this game.

[Santos]

Unvote.

$*#J)(#*@R(J#*

Vote: Sho Minamimoto

I've grown tired of waiting for something to happen.

[Santos]

Not changing my vote.

[Santos]

muzzz or Shanba. I'm happy with either. Shanba gets it more so only because he replaced ZazieR. Muzzz: its turning to a gut feeling, but nothing I'd take to the grave unless someone else saw that light...oh, I think it was Sho, right?
If I remember correctly, these two were not with each other...or was that someone else? I've kinda put this game on the back burner, but haven't replaced out because I know our mod would probably chop my head off, haha. :p *waits for haters*

[Santos]

So are we waiting for people to have the balls to vote?

Vote: Shanba

[Santos]

When its 4th and about 19, you have to punt the ball away.

gg