Mafia 98 - Apennine Mafia (Game Over)

[Benmage]

<<<fail quoter

[Yaw]

Vote Count:

Mastin (5): Zachrulez, Debonair Danny DiPietro, GIEFF, SpyreX, VP Baltar
camn (3): Benmage, camn, Battle Mage
alexhans (1): Kmd4390
Battle Mage (1): Mastin
SensFan (1): alexhans

Not Voting: Cephrir, blackcatcontract, SensFan, jammer

8 to lynch

[camn]

And

Camn

... voting yourself does nothing else than confusing me...

if you were town... it would never be a good strategy to lynch yourself unless you were going for a trade with someone of 1 after the other if the first doesn't flip scum (Which seems also bad because both could be town) so, at this point, it only hurts us.

1) Are you town and trying to make a point by voting yourself or do you EARNESTLY believe it will help? why are we gonna gain something from your lynch if you're town? SensFan's defense of you is just a threat and a lie. So I need a real reason.

2) The other theory I have is that you're pulling a gambyt to look town... the "look, she is willing to die, so she probably isn't scum" one....

Do you see why is most unhelpful?

Camn- what do you think of this post? To me, it stinks of coaching, and perhaps even indicates that Alex knows you are town. Given you know your own role, what do you make of it?

BM

I think it stinks, too.
Despite Gieff's opinion... I like my vote on me.
Initially I was just following Benmage, but I had to think a lot about whether I should just replace out or what.. and I decided this:
1) SO MUCH effort has been put into pushing a crapcase on me, I think that we need to see my flip just for clarity.

2) PLUS.. i HATE this game right now. I actually want death. Incog warned me that it would be like this.. but I am an optimist.
So, If my death can help clarify things, I am all for it. Generally day 1 sees a mislynch... so I might as well be it, right?

3) FURTHERMORE.. my last couple games I have had a lot of anxiety re: getting mislynched. I never have been mislynched before.. and I have been getting some performance-anxiety, I guess . I figure I should just get it out of the way.

--------------

What is the SCUM BENEFIT for any of those actions? Putting yourself in the spotlight in a negative fashion in a mountainous game?

I love you spyrex.

I spent to day at the beach.. and I thought about this game, and what was bothering me about it the most. And mostly THIS was my problem with Geiff's "case":

To me, it seems he argues again and again I am "Lying".
Obviously scum lie, but the crux of the matter was what you just said: what would be the scum motivation?

For instance.. he asked me if my 2nd vote for him was OMGUS.
I said it wasn't.
He said I was lying.
.. the question.. What Benefit, as scum, would I have to lie about

that

?
I admit to Alex that I get omgus-attitude toward people who annoy me.... so I clearly don't have any problem admitting to my emotional play.

So why would I lie, as scum?

I decided that is what frustrates me the most.
He asks a question..I answer.. he says I am lying.
This is no way to debate.

I just hope that when this game is over he is intropective enough to look at his play, and get better because of it.
I am pretty sure Benmage isn't, since healready is making excuses for my mislynch:

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck it’s probably a duck.

It’s not our fault

if you turn out to be a chicken.

[Mastin]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

[GIEFF]

Two quick questions, camn:

1. Would you rather lynch alex or Mastin?
   
   
2. What did you mean when you said it wouldn't be that hard for me to convince you of my ability to make the right decisions?
   

   Although I have a town-read on Geiff.. I could EASILY be wrong (it has happened!). . and to mitigate that risk, he should probably die someday. Or convince me of his ability to make the right decisions. (Which wouldn't be that hard, btw.)

[GIEFF]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

You will be dead by tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

^

The above post is so ridiculously town that it hurts.

[Benmage]

As I've said elsewhere, I'm having access problems with MS.net at my home computer. In the games where I am pages behind, this will be a hindrance; I don't have time in 30 minutes to catch up. It should be fixed by tomorrow; I'll see what I can do then.

You will be dead by tomorrow.

*crosses his fingers*

[GIEFF]

He asks a question..I answer.. he says I am lying.
This is no way to debate.

camn, there are scum in this game, and they will lie in order to make themselves look like townies. So instead of just taking your word for it, I try to see if what you are saying makes sense.


I think my explanations are much more logical than the ones you provide for your actions. For example, you tell me your vote for me isn't OMGUS, yet admit to alex that it is. To me, that looks like you are lying, no matter what you may say about it afterwards. I am sorry if this frustrates you, but I would be more willing to believe what you say if it made more sense.

[SpyreX]

Damnit, as should be obvious, I was preview smacked.

I am referring to CAMN and not GIEFF.

Never GIEFF.

[SpyreX]

Ohh hay Mastin posted just now in a different thread and made no mention of this issue. Funny how that works.

[GIEFF]

Don't beat yourself up, Spyrex, I'm sure that your preview-smack is the only mistake you've made in this thread.


And actually, Mastin DID mention his issue - no copy-and-paste.


But I'm sure it's just those two things you've been wrong about.

[GIEFF]

As for Battle Mage and Mastin: yea, I think they're town at this juncture. Further evidence could change it. I think they are both perfectly capable of faking concern but I do not think they have done so in this particular instance.

15 hours later:

After looking at Mastin's profile and the fact he has posted almost as much in other games as he has in this game total AND did not respond to the prod...

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

Good thing you were so wishy-washy 15 hours before your vote, or people would be liable to think that you're just voting whomever serves you best, instead of voting people whom you think are scum.

When can we expect your reversal on BattleMage?

[SpyreX]

Wow.

How about this ohh so condescending one that is obviously right about everything:

I'll vote camn. Hell, I help get it done.

When she is town you vote yourself and just dont post anymore.
If I'm wrong I'll follow you around like a puppy dog.

As for Battle Mage and Mastin: yea, I think they're town at this juncture.

Further evidence could change it.

I think they are both perfectly capable of faking concern but I do not think they have done so in this particular instance.

After looking at Mastin's profile and the fact he has posted almost as much in other games as he has in this game total AND did not respond to the prod...

Unvote, Vote: Mastin

And, just so we're clear from this last page the new "objective" train is going:

1.) Scum will lie.
2.) Camn has lied.
3.) Camn is scum.

Which would work if #2 WAS GROUNDED IN FACT and NOT SUBJECTIVE INTERPRETATION OF THE POSTS.

[VP Baltar]

An excellent find by GIEFF.

[GIEFF]

I'll vote camn. Hell, I help get it done.

When she is town you vote yourself and just dont post anymore.
If I'm wrong I'll follow you around like a puppy dog.

OK, let's do this.

[Benmage]

I'll vote camn. Hell, I help get it done.

*is still waiting*

[SpyreX]

Good lord. Sure.

Unvote, Vote Camn

Bam. Its done.

I'm now done with today.

[GIEFF]

unvote

vote spyrex

[VP Baltar]

Jesus, no. We should be lynching Mastin or alex, as that is where the majority of agreement by the group is at. I really think if we give the camn situation a night for everyone to relax and look back, things will make much more sense.

[SensFan]

alex.

Any post you make over 200 wordss, I will not even so much as skim. Make your posts short (200 words is more than you need for a D1 case), or I won't read/respond to them.

---

GIEFF, I said what I did because there's no way 6 Town will vote for Camn today. It just won't happen.

[Benmage]

Jesus, no. We should be lynching Mastin or alex, as that is where the majority of agreement by the group is at. I really think if we give the camn situation a night for everyone to relax and look back, things will make much more sense.

You know ironically I do agree. I think she’s scum and I want her lynched. But I’d like her to relax a little a bit and re-approach the game. It is a game!

@Camn sorry if I’ve been a bit to offensive this game. I play abrasive; sometimes I go a bit too far.

If she is indeed town, she’d be seeking her own innocence. I say this because I’m town, and in someway I think she believes her lynching will shed “clarity” on my allegiance. (not sure if I’m making sense…borderline drunk atm)

Basically we have 30+ pages. Wonderful. She shouldn’t be yielding to emotion or giving up on the game. Frustrated or whatnot, she can take a back seat sure, but seeking her own death is lame.

unvote

vote spyrex

So useless. And any reasoning would’ve been awesome..but its apparent we just throw votes anywhere in this game.

alex.

Any post you make over 200 wordss, I will not even so much as skim. Make your posts short (200 words is more than you need for a D1 case), or I won't read/respond to them.

Capt’n douchebag over here. Alex, I’d of stopped trying to talk to him ages ago. Lynch him D3 when everyone else realizes how useless he is.

Eh…done rambling.

[camn]

1) Would you rather lynch alex or Mastin?

2)What did you mean when you said it wouldn't be that hard for me to convince you of my ability to make the right decisions?

1) Mastin. He is useless. I don't like alex's attitude... but at least he is playing. I have hit scum a lot lately on lurkerlynches, as well.

2) I respect your play from our last game together, but this game, as I have said, I don't feel like you are being very objective THIS game. You have avoided some of my questions, and just GENERALLY seem really...

ineffective

.
Plus, you are missing a certain sense of

dialogue

. It hasn't been like we were having a discussion this game, but more like I say something, and you call me a liar.
I just finished a newbie game where this new guy named Arelian was really wonderful about saying what he thought.. and then listening to other peoples responses.. and actually taking those responses IN and using them to help guide his decision making. He and I (both town) won that game with back to back lylo-scumlynches.... because we could discuss things. This happened DESPITE the fact that I was on the top of his scumlist almost the whole game. Even though he thought I was scum.. he STILL listened to what I had to say... and we won.
Right now, it is hard for me to see that happening with you. I see you forcing your opinion down everyone's throat.
... THAT is what would need to change... and I think you can do it! Easily!

Does it make sense?

[camn]

I think my explanations are much more logical than the ones you provide for your actions. For example, you tell me your vote for me isn't OMGUS, yet admit to alex that it is. To me, that looks like you are lying, no matter what you may say about it afterwards. I am sorry if this frustrates you, but I would be more willing to believe what you say if it made more sense.

Like this^^ This is not objective.

Lets analyze this.

A) I never did this:

For example, you tell me your vote for me isn't OMGUS, yet admit to alex that it is

B) BUT let's say I did, just for the sake of argument. Why, as SCUM, would I do this? I honestly don't think OMGUS votes are scummy. So why, AS SCUM, wouldn't I admit it if that had been my reason? Or as town, for that matter?
The answer? I WOULD HAVE ADMITTED IT!
I sometimes even list omgus as the reason for my votes... as scum and town. So why lie?

C) You say I am not making a lot of 'sense'. How would this indicate I am scum? Am I more confused and nonsensical as scum than as town? If anything.. I take MORE care with my posts as scum than as town!

D) In conclusion, I would have to argue.. maybe I am NOT lying. Maybe I am telling the truth, and I actually DO make sense! That seems like a more objective conclusion.. since a hypo-scum-camn has no motivation to tell these lies you say I am telling!

[Benmage]

Lets analyze this.

A) I never did this:

For example, you tell me your vote for me isn't OMGUS, yet admit to alex that it is

B) BUT let's say I did, just for the sake of argument. Why, as SCUM, would I do this? I honestly don't think OMGUS votes are scummy. So why, AS SCUM, wouldn't I admit it if that had been my reason? Or as town, for that matter?
The answer? I WOULD HAVE ADMITTED IT!
I sometimes even list omgus as the reason for my votes... as scum and town. So why lie?

I don't think omgus'ing is scummy myself. I do it as town all the time. But people do feel it is. And as scum I tend to play a bit more reserved. So even if I feel it isn't a big scum tell, others might and so as scum i'd avoid doing it.