Long rambling post. I hope this is at least a little helpful - I just started with a sentence and it grew and grew.
Petunho wrote:Dammit! I got the right hunch on VRK and especially on Starbuck during the second day. Shame I didn't pursuit it more strongly.
I find this is almost always the case. When you pursue something really strongly, it's great if you're right and pretty awful if you're wrong. So most people have to be
very
sure to push strongly; most people end up saying "I wish I pushed ___ harder" or "darn, I wish I figured out __ wasn't scum" after the game. You did good, though, you were pretty obviously the kill; just realise that if you're right, you
will
die tonight and dead townies have zero impact.
A significant problem, really, was that the IC was both scum and partially V/LA. The rest of the town just didn't generate enough of the right type of discussion to get onto the right track in time. I think it's very possible to get Starbuck lynched, but I kinda doubt you would have caught onto Vel/Zorblag unless you drew links between him and Starbuck, which were clearly there in my opinion.
Day 3 was probably the worst of this, and I'm pretty sure it would have gone to Day 4 if people had been active and pushed into the game. I think there is a little "follow the IC" as well, which probably played into it.
Petunho wrote:I think Start got more solid game through out the game, but the fast vote in day three was a too bit hasty. That's why I got suspicious of him and in the end the desperation coming through his post didn't serve him at all.
I thought startransmission actually played well and was poorly rewarded for his troubles. He's definitely improved since I played with him. Predictably, I don't think his early vote was at all scummy and was actually fully expecting it from late Day 2. Maybe me and Troll will debate this
A very important point in the game was
here, where Starbuck could easily have been lynched on Day 2. In fact, if we just strip 99% of the game away, we have:
Vel-Rahn Koon wrote:I've got a radical theory for you: hiphop and starbuck are scum together.
Elmo wrote:Day 2, Vote Count #4
hiphop (3) <- Starbuck, Vel-Rahn Koon, bouchedufou
Starbuck (2) <- Petunho, hiphop
So why is he voting for the same person that Starbuck is, without a very persuasive reason to think Starbuck is bussing? This is after (I believe) he has been agreeing with the attacks on Starbuck for some time. If Star was lynched, he should have been dogpiled on Day 3, in my opinion.
startransmission, a mistake I think you made was not pushing Starbuck hard enough late on Day 2; I'm skimming back, I think you basically unvoted in order to get more information or so. I think that's the wrong tradeoff; I think you got very little information out of it, looking back, and I think if you went hell for leather a week or two before deadline, you could have gotten Starbuck lynched in that spot. It's an argument I probably wouldn't go for outside of pretty specific circumstances or a large game; most people can't shift positions without hugely contradicting themselves anyway, so most scum aren't going to fall for it, unless you have something very
specific
about why you're doing it.
If you're going to lead a lynch, you need to decide who you want lynched much earlier, and then push really hard in absence of anything like an innocent claim that would make you reconsider. The other big thing is simply that if you look at
this vote count, it's clear that with the time left until deadline, a Starbuck lynch is no longer an option. I think you need to appreciate how easily the lynch can get to that point from the former vote count, where it's basically one person or a no lynch. You have to focus on
other people
to a large extent. It might have helped to talk over why you suspected Starbuck with Pethunho a week or so before deadline.
I can understand why hiphip might have talked himself into a noose, but I don't think there were any solid arguments against him when he was lynched, although I may be forgetting. (I can't remember what the case against Starbuck was like, but I have a feeling it was stronger; I'm biased, obviously.) I'm curious why people ended up voting him when I can't remember anyone truly hating his play.
I also think that people should have picked up on how little Starbuck posted on Day 3. Yes, she was V/LA, but she was mostly posting one-liners when she did post. For most people, a situation like that is one of the hardest to play as scum, because you have to directly OMGUS one person instead of pick whoever looks weakest. If you look at the amount (and the manner in which) startransmission was posting against Starbuck, I think it's a clear indicator that Starbuck would prefer not to have this argument - when she
should
know a few days that ST is guaranteed scum. Most townies will be happy to go one-on-one if a scumbag picks them out, and it's a fairly risky move for scum. I can't understand why ST would have played it like that if he were scum, and I can't figure out who his partner was supposed to be.
Also, the roleclaim business was hilarious. Claim, claim! Okay, I claim... town. It's short for "role claim"
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford
