mini 814: OVER!

Locke Lamora · Post Post #175 (ISO) » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:07 pm

Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck. I don't see what the point of the rant about us ruining the game was for. I even gave her a chance to voice her suspicions and she didn't even indicate she was writing up a big post until after she was hammered. I don't know how she went from Monkey's hammer to deciding that we all don't care either. Personally, I based my vote on the lack of scumhunting and trying to get Droid off her with the tunnel vision comment.

As bad as that Monkey hammer was, I don't think he's scum. Scum hammering their partner without even giving them a chance to claim on D1 is ridiculous. I think it's just awful town play. On to who Starbuck's scumbuddy/buddies might be:

Claramata/Tarballs: As we know, Claramata only made one post and didn't say anything much at all. Tarballs makes a few comments towards Starbuck about the self-voting situation but none of them call her scummy. The strongest thing he says against her is that she's 'pushing a bit too hard'.

Spinach: disagrees a couple of times with Starbuck over self-voting but never calls her scummy, just saying that Starbuck did nothing to stimulate discussion. Starbuck's random vote is on Spinach but there's no interaction on her part aside from that.

ODDin and DNW went after Starbuck quite aggressively and I'm ruling out Monkey for the reason indicated above. The only other possible candidate is Hernz, who would only make sense as Starbuck's partner if he wound her up by self-voting to the point that she decided to put him back at L-1. Given the incredibly principled stance Starbuck took against self-voting, I'm not ruling this out. Her partner self-voting could also explain her outrage and the PM sent to myk. However, Hernz does go on the attack more strongly against her later on: in post 136, for example, he actively focuses on Starbuck and tries to push the discussion back to her.

In conclusion:

Vote: Tarballs

Let's hear from you. Who's scum with Starbuck?

Tarballs · Post Post #176 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:26 am

The end of last day really was interesting, to say the least. MonkeyMan was my top suspect, but after that hammer and Starbuck flipping scum, I don't see him getting lynched in near future. I'll still keep my eye on him, though.

Hernz wrote:Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?

I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

Spinach wrote:
Starbuck wrote:It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.
I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but
all that work is now in vain
. It's very frustrating.

How is it in vain? It's never too late to post your thoughts, or at least some of them, even if Starbuck was quickhammered. Well, unless you were about to defend her.

Locke Lamora wrote:Good to see we were spot on with Starbuck.

There he goes again, tapping himself in the back.

ODDin wrote:Considering the behind-the-scenes PMs, I don't think we should have dead people replacing in.

Yeah, agreed. And dead people shouldn't even post in the thread, or that's what rule #15 says anyway.

Mod: Could we have some info on who replaced who on the first post? Otherwise it will get really confusing, if there are more replacements.

mykonian · Post Post #177 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:06 am

I knew it must have had some use, but forgot what...

Spinach · Post Post #178 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:57 pm

Tarballs wrote:
Spinach wrote:
Starbuck wrote:It's just crap. I was asked to give my suspicions. I've had a notepad document going because I prefer big analysis posts rather than the 5 billion posts people make when doing analysis. I was going to finish it up when I got home and post it. I was getting ready to and noticed I was hammered. No wait, no nothing. I really was looking forward to this game, thank you all for ruining it based on the fact that I hate self-voting rather than anything scummy.
I know. I've also had a fairly large post in the works in my notes section, but
all that work is now in vain
. It's very frustrating.
How is it in vain? It's never too late to post your thoughts, or at least some of them, even if Starbuck was quickhammered. Well, unless you were about to defend her.

Most of it was focused on Monkey, but him hammering so quickly regards him as the least likely to be scum at this particular moment, rendering my post obsolete. And looking back, it seems possible (considering the nightkill) that Monkey is silenced today, though I'm not sure.

Monkey/Fluffy: Your thoughts?

Fluffy · Post Post #179 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:36 pm

assuming that starbuck's partner wouldn't vote for starbuck in day 1, and assuming there has to be at least 2 scum, so there's possibly a scum who isn't on the wagon of starbuck, people not on the starbuck wagon include henrz, spinach, and tarballs.

henrz - random votes droid, then unvotes and then self votes, then unvotes himself,
spinach - random votes monkeyman, and that's it
tarballs - votes henrz, unvotes and then votes monkeyman

tarballs with starbuck - votes henrz after starbuck attacks henrz for self voting, then unvotes when people disagree with starbuck that self voting is necessarily scummy,

and monkey, i don't necessarily think he should get a free pass for quick hammering, since he could've hammered when he realised she was going to get lynched anyways..

but at this stage

vote:Tarballs

Spinach · Post Post #180 (ISO) » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:32 pm

Fluffy wrote:assuming that starbuck's partner wouldn't vote for starbuck in day 1, and assuming there has to be at least 2 scum, so there's possibly a scum who isn't on the wagon of starbuck, people not on the starbuck wagon include henrz, spinach, and tarballs.

henrz - random votes droid, then unvotes and then self votes, then unvotes himself,
spinach - random votes monkeyman, and that's it
tarballs - votes henrz, unvotes and then votes monkeyman

tarballs with starbuck - votes henrz after starbuck attacks henrz for self voting, then unvotes when people disagree with starbuck that self voting is necessarily scummy,

and monkey, i don't necessarily think he should get a free pass for quick hammering, since he could've hammered when he realised she was going to get lynched anyways..

but at this stage
vote:Tarballs

If you're asking me as to why I didn't vote Starbuck, it was basically because we policy lynched her for wanting to policy lynch someone. It didn't make sense to me.

Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible? I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

Henrz · Post Post #181 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:34 am

Ye... I see your point, because it's not like Monkey is the greatest player in the world, but, I think it does confirm him a tad more, because why would he cut himself off?

Fluffy · Post Post #182 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:06 pm

spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Spinach · Post Post #183 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:12 pm

Fluffy wrote:spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.

Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

Still waiting on you, monkey . . .

MonkeyMan576 · Post Post #184 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:34 pm

What is it that you want from me?

Spinach · Post Post #185 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:45 pm

MonkeyMan576 wrote:What is it that you want from me?

Your thoughts on the game... as previously stated. >_>

MonkeyMan576 · Post Post #186 (ISO) » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:27 pm

Henrz is my top suspect. I still don't like his self-voting reasoning and he wasn't on the Starbuck lynch. And I don't think he has a right to attack my playing, it's not like he's "the greatest player in the world."

Tarballs would be my next top suspect at this point. I don't like the way he says I "was his top suspect but I don't see him getting lynched in the near future." That indicates that he still might think I should be lynched, even if most think I'm town. If that's the case, he should say that rather than vote by the guise of town populism.

Henrz · Post Post #187 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 12:13 am

Wait, so I wasn't on the Starbuck lynch because I didn't want a speed lynch? That's some weird logic... And it's true, there are players better than you in this game, which they could've cut off just as easily, but it may well just be a coincidence, so I'm not putting it for you to much. Also you do realise why I self-voted, to get out of the RVS and to get some god damn activity... What's so hard about that to understand, everyone else seems to accept that, but you don't why not? Give more reasoning that "I still don't like it".

Tarballs · Post Post #188 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 1:29 am

Tarballs wrote:
Hernz wrote:Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?
I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?

That question is still without an answer.

Spinach wrote:Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible? I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.

Trying to guess why the scum killed who they killed, when there is no obvious reason, is almost never a good idea. And if the mafia really wanted to isolate someone, they could've just flipped a coin between me and Droideka. Or something. Anyhow, the fact that I wasn't killed doesn't prove anything here.

Spinach wrote:
Fluffy wrote:spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.
Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.

How do you even know what a Silencer does? How would it make this different if there were two Silencers instead of just one? And it also seems like you knew that a Silencer exists before Starbuck even flipped... which should be impossible, if you're town.

Vote: Spinach

Henrz · Post Post #189 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 5:08 am

Tarballs wrote:
Tarballs wrote:
Hernz wrote:Is everyone up for lynching Monkey tomorrow (depending on if Starbuck is scum or not)?
I don't quite understand what the meaning of this question was. Were you willing to just go and speedlynch MonkeyMan if Starbuck had flipped town?
That question is still without an answer.

Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.

Spinach · Post Post #190 (ISO) » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:19 am

Tarballs wrote:
Spinach wrote:Also, while we're on the topic of Tarballs, I realized something.
I realized that (from the nightkill) the mafia have another goal in this game: to hamper communication.
Then I looked at the nightkill. They were obviously trying to isolate someone, and they could do it in two ways:
a) Kill Droid and isolate Monkey. (the outcome)
b) Kill Tarballs and isolate Hernz.

So I have a question: Why was option a chosen over option b? Could Tarballs be scum, rendering option b impossible?
I know it seems... far-fetched, but I'd just like to throw it out there while we're talking about him.
Trying to guess why the scum killed who they killed, when there is no obvious reason, is almost never a good idea. And if the mafia really wanted to isolate someone, they could've just flipped a coin between me and Droideka. Or something. Anyhow, the fact that I wasn't killed doesn't prove anything here.

Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

Tarballs wrote:
Spinach wrote:
Fluffy wrote:spinach - i think that's an interesting theory, hadn't thought of it from that angle,

but isn't that assuming that communication is important to playing this game, it hasn't added anything new for me at the stage of the game, could be just me though.
Yeah, I had thought of it as useless until Starbuck died, then I realized we could have an all-silencer mafia.
How do you even know what a Silencer does? How would it make this different if there were two Silencers instead of just one? And it also seems like you knew that a Silencer exists before Starbuck even flipped... which should be impossible, if you're town.

Vote: Spinach

I searched the wiki and used knowledge from previous games to infer what a silencer does in this game.
And what got me thinking that there were multiple silencers are the way the nightkill happened, in a way to isolate someone (monkey) as if he was going to be silenced. (Also why I wanted to hear from him)
And I hadn't even thought of silencers existing in this game before Starbuck flipped. I'd like to know where you got this idea that I knew on D1 from.

And what worries me more is that you voted and attacked me for posting a simple thought, while you have yet to address the two other people that have voted for you.

FoS: Tarballs

Henrz · Post Post #191 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 2:43 am

Uhh, what IS a silencer?

Locke Lamora · Post Post #192 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 3:41 am

I've only played with a silencer once before and it wasn't here, but in that case it was a mafia role that had the power to completely prevent someone talking in the game for an entire game day. In this game it could also be to silence people from day-talking with their neighbours. As everyone has spoken today it doesn't look like anyone's been silenced.

Spinach: I'm interested in why you think the mafia's goal is to hamper communication. Sure, it's possible that they were aiming to do that with the Droid kill but it's also possible they killed Droid for a completely different reason and didn't even think about isolating someone in the circle.

Fluffy · Post Post #193 (ISO) » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:17 pm

well if a silencer's role is to hamper communication, then wouldn't it be consistent that the mafia partner would be trying to do the same thing?
so i don't think it's a bad theory..

Tarballs · Post Post #194 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:11 am

Hernz wrote:Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.

That's a horribly wishy-washy answer.

Spinach wrote:Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.

I did read the last sentence. It's just that you admitted yourself that it was far-fetched, and that it "probably means next to nothing", yet you still felt the need of pointing it out.

And is it just me, or is this game starting to slow down again?

Mod: I'm requesting that you prod ODDin, who hasn't posted for almost a week now.

Spinach · Post Post #195 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:28 am

Tarballs wrote:
Hernz wrote:Oops, sorry, In answer. Kinda yes... But, I was meaning like after his defence, not before, and even then maybe not, but yeah, I kinda was. Bus NOT a speedlynch.
That's a horribly wishy-washy answer. :D

Spinach wrote:Did you fail to read that last sentence? I've bolded it for your reading convenience. I said that I just wanted to throw it out there, and that I knew it was far-fetched, and that it probably meant next to nothing.
I did read the last sentence. It's just that you admitted yourself that it was far-fetched, and that it "probably means next to nothing", yet you still felt the need of pointing it out.

And is it just me, or is this game starting to slow down again?
Mod: I'm requesting that you prod ODDin, who hasn't posted for almost a week now.

Yes, but as you've said, the game is going horribly slow... posting it generated discussion, which we desperately need.

You still haven't responded to Fluffy and LL.

Spinach · Post Post #196 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:30 am

Locke Lamora wrote:I've only played with a silencer once before and it wasn't here, but in that case it was a mafia role that had the power to completely prevent someone talking in the game for an entire game day. In this game it could also be to silence people from day-talking with their neighbours. As everyone has spoken today it doesn't look like anyone's been silenced.

Spinach: I'm interested in why you think the mafia's goal is to hamper communication. Sure, it's possible that they were aiming to do that with the Droid kill but it's also possible they killed Droid for a completely different reason and didn't even think about isolating someone in the circle.

I thought it was quite obvious. Hampering our communication effectively cuts down our chances of finding scum.

ODDin · Post Post #197 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:20 am

Hi, sorry for not posting much, had exams and such. Still do, so I haven't entirely caught up, but here are some thoughts.
Tarballs got 2 votes. From what I can see, the main reason is him not being on the Starbuck wagon, which, I think, is a weak reason. I'm not saying there's no point to it whatsoever, but I don't really see him as more suspicious than the other people who haven't voted for Starbuck.

Also, Locke, it's still possible that the silencer does exactly what you think - prevents someone from day-talking. You seem to be missing the fact that we

killed

the silencer, and therefore, she couldn't have acted on her role tonight...

ODDin · Post Post #198 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 10:24 am

Also,

FoS Fluffy

, who quickly followed Locke on the Tarballs vote, which, as I've said above, isn't very well based IMO.
Also, I'd like to note that DNW was aggressively attacking Starbuck before everyone went after her, and for quite different reasons. By the time the wagon on Starbuck seriously formed, she'd already disappeared, and Fluffy came in to replace when it was already too late. So, I doubt that DNW actually thought her attack on Starbuck will lead to a lynch. For that matter, it might well have been her trying to distance herself from Starbuck, as her attack was a lot more aggressive than necessary, and quite poorly based.

Fluffy · Post Post #199 (ISO) » Wed Jul 29, 2009 1:52 pm

To be honest, I wasn't following Locke on the Tarballs vote, I just sat down to try and analyse who could be scum partner objectively - ie. based on voting patterns, which is based on the information we got from day 1 in light of the outcome of the lynch and nightkill, I didn't even realise Locke had voted Tarballs until I posted and then read his post.

And fair enough point about DNW, but I can't really comment on what DNW's intentions were and thoughts in attacking Starbuck.