MtG: Parallel Universe Mafia (fl's subgame): Game Over

[SpyreX]

I hath confirmed'ed

[SpyreX]

I tend to believe them.

However, that doesn't change anything - if someone can ship off DDD then more power to you:

1.) We get rid of a neutral PR.
2.) We get rid of scum in some kind of super gambit (note, at that point, it'd be part of that game so more power to us).

AND both of those happen without wasting a lynch or useful night actions.

So, yes, I'm actually in favor of moving this day faster than normal in order to make this happen if it could.

[SpyreX]

Ohh and OMGUS-SPACE VOTE

Vote: Papa Zito

Least the 'quan didn't need a device from another race to get where they are. Sheesh.

[SpyreX]

Shipping a player off?

Useful only under the circumstances it hits a non-town player.

Otherwise it would simply be crippling ourselves.

There's no situation where DDD can be a town player now, thus.

[SpyreX]

I'm only not in favor of the lynch because I believe them being neutral. I'd much rather hit scum.

And unless I'm missing something which I doubt - the simplest solution is winning our game. I don't have any connection to the other games so they sure as hell aren't get townies from har'.

[SpyreX]

And for the record:

I am NOT reading the other games. Preface business that is coming from other games with a giant klaxon and make it apparent what you are trying to say.

TIA,

Team Victory Ltd. Inc.

[SpyreX]

So, really, the question is: do we try and push this forward and get rid of OUR neutral before they can foist THEIRS on us?

Which means I am in favor of edict 3.2.a: self-imposed faster deadline day 1.

Think about it.

[SpyreX]

If I were vig, I'd shoot Mufasa.

QFT

[SpyreX]

Ok, lets parse this out:

1.) We move DDD. Problem solved regardless of role.
--- This can only happen if we move to night FIRST.
2.) Somehow they get to night FIRST and send Benmage here:
--- They leave the game. Problem solved.
--- They are still alive. They are then scum. They die. Problem solved.
3.) We lynch DDD:
--- He is scum. Horray!
--- He is what he says he is. This is then a wasted lynch.
4.) We ignore this for today
--- We end up with it tomorrow.

So, REALLY, 1 if possible is where I'd throw my vote down.
2, ultimately, isn't bad.
3 seems real nice on the surface but 3.b. is a scum wet dream day one.
Anyone who really suggests 4 should be shot. Twice.

That said Mufasa's idea, assuming we have a vig, is not for good. Or awesome.

[SpyreX]

...?

More words doesn't mean they're moving in a direction. Just that there are more words.

They are, in fact, discussing the same thing we are.

[SpyreX]

You're not caught up? We're on all of page 4. Sweet.

Nope. Not reading the other game(s). Pertinent information can be parsed here.

Porken's question about a softclaim?

By that you mean breadcrumb?

By me ignoring you mean tajo?

By breadcrumb you mean tajo saying WFT instead of WTF?

Questions within questions.

Answers? Only you can decide.

[SpyreX]

Site if you think its for discussion.

Otherwise dont.

Please, lord please, don't "softclaim" the other thread.

[SpyreX]

Hold up a sec there.

I thought I was pretty clear, but apparently not.

I do not want 2 other games worth of "information" shoved into this one. That is senseless. I want information that helps me find the scum here. In fact, about all that harping about white noise the only white noise I see is, ultimately, a function of those games.

Further, and I'm curious to your response to this - my role is pretty clear about the other games having

absolutely no impact

on my success.

So, due tell, why the fascination with the other games? I mean, we know the scum can cross communicate... but anyone else?

So, to put it more succinctly:

Your ship does not respond to standard Hierarchy identification transmissions and is therefore deemed to be... independent.

Vote: SocioPath

Unvote, desho desho?

[SpyreX]

Except for the fact that, as far as I can tell, they aren't relevant except for how they alter this game - see getting rid of DDD.

Its not a function of post restrictions. My PM is very clear. I am here to win this game and bugger the other two.

The only reason I would have to care about them is if they impacted this one.

So this giant strawman you've presented is sweet and all but doesn't change anything.

[SpyreX]

Sheesh what a demanding moddess:

Unvote, Vote Sociopath

And no matter how you cut it unless you are assuming an anti-town role that gains SECRET POWERS by posting that (which the obvious assumption would be to kill said target) at the end of every post and is doing so in the most obvious way...

Or, maybe this time the cigar is just a cigar. Who knowwwsss.

It doesn't count because I don't feel like counting votes made on days that end in y. Sorry

(just kidding)

[SpyreX]

And if its not in what world is that going to be a scum role?

At BEST, if true, it would presume an SK. And it'd be very hard to hide that if he has to go "If I were a vig, I'd lynch "TOTALLY PRO TOWN PLAYER""

[SpyreX]

Ohh I swear to pete if that has any bearing I will lose all my marbles.

As silly as it is ohh great and wonderful moddess I would like to see another votecount.

Ohh and Socio - on top of the fact that in the best of times the "Have you played in a Tar setup" wouldn't hold water go ahead and look close at the signup thread. I'd post it but I'm not sure how that kind of communication would work.

I might consider doing one tomorrow morning or something

[SpyreX]

Ohh if he does and they dont go the way of the dodo they die faster than lightning.

Modkill already? Ohh snap.

[SpyreX]

The speed and absolute posting frenzy in this game is keeping me behind. I may have to reread.

[SpyreX]

Fair enough. Lets shake this up.

Zito, Porkens, Tajo:

I propose we form

THE UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE

.

It will have the following goals in mind:

1.) To lynch Sociopath.
2.) To vig Mufasa if possible.
3.) To descend on dissenters like a pack of wolves. There will be no quarter. There will be only allies and enemies.

* This alliance will break if, and only if, we remain and have a sinner amongst us.

If you agree to these terms, simply vote Sociopath.

Thank you,

SpyreX Industries
Keepin' it Real.

[SpyreX]

I'd love to know too.

Mufasa can be the UA's banner.

[SpyreX]

Ohh its not odd but I'll spell it out:

1.) I find sociopath to be scummy:
--- For his push on me being anti-town which makes no sense considering my PM.
--- The super secret powerful scum role that is "state your targets in the thread".
------ The "tar setup" justification that is objectively wrong.

2.) Due to 1, by nature I have less issue with Porkens AND Zito.
--- Zito for his statement regarding said PM
--- Porkens for the "ohh shi scum".
--- Tajo was just a nice good ol' gut move.

3.) Nothing was happening. I guarantee this will make things happen.
--- This is not a "lol reactions" or "lol gambit". I'm dead serious. I'll push through with this and let the scum deal with "uncofirmed daymasons hoo" OR push a lynch on me and let the egg be on their face.

I dig your reaction, although it'd be what I'd expect a scum reaction to be if I was correct in my educated guesses.

But, lets see what sifts out.

[SpyreX]

Really the question you need to be asking yourself, and your whole tone bespeaks the issue with this is - is this a

scum

maneuver?

If you think its join and free pass ohh hoss no. In fact, I've painted a huge red X on myself and smaller ones on the people I've called out. If I'm right and it goes well the group does become a huge NK target. If I'm wrong then any scum in the group have the tightest of ropes to walk.

So, not only do the people I've picked out now have more reason to find scum even if they are scum but they damn well dont get to go "ohh yea me too" except for Sociopath.

Could one of them be scum? Possibly.

Could two of us be scum? Only in the case that the "us" includes myself as part of the scum. In which case I've all but set myself up for a lynch down the road.

So, disagreement with the plan or not, the real question is do you think I am scum for it?

Your vote sure says one thing but the previous post doesn't quite mesh.

[SpyreX]

*Only in the case that I'm scum or I am the best backwards scum-finder the world has ever seen.

[SpyreX]

No one cares that you can read your own PM.
Until after you're dead, nothing you say about such is concrete.
You can claim different roles, abilities, and restrictions until you are blue in the face, but at the end of the day, it is still just a claim.

Well, gee golly, I care gosh darnit.

Yes it is just a claim. However, as should be apparent, I am confident that what I am saying will have backing.

Good to see you're not even attempting to refute the fact you have a much greater vested interest in the other games than I do.

Oh yes, because scum is the only threat you could possibly worry about. Very naive.
SK? Unlikely for the amount of attention drawn, but I wouldn't rule it out.
Cult recruiter? Well someone has already claimed non-recruitable as part of their role.
Or possibly some other anti-town role.

Yes, very naive. Got me again.

SK, as you yourself admit, is very unlikely.
If you are saying "He is threatining to vig someone thus: cult recruiter" well I dont even know what to say about that.

Like I've said and I will clarify: sometimes the cigar is just a cigar. As for your point of discussion regarding that:

Oh please enlighten me.

Tar did not design and is not modding this subgame. FL is modding and Gurgi designed it. This is detailed out specifically in the topic you signed up for.

So... wacky hijinks still as a function of Tar being mod?

I'll talk to yos in a skosh.

[SpyreX]

Not really. Assuming there's one kill, one lynch, and our claimed lover gets sent over to the other game tonight, tommorow there will be only 9 people left. Which means there's only 6 people not in your ALLIANCE. It's 5 votes to lynch. If there's 1 scum in your ALLIANCE and two scum outside of your ALLIANCE, then assuming that the people in your alliance don't vote each other, then there's no possible way for the town people not in your alliance to lynch a scum in your alliance, at all, unless the scum help, which they won't. And it only gets worse from there, as your alliance becomes a bigger and bigger part of the town.

Basically, if the town allows this alliance to happen today, and there is one scum in it, town loses. Period. So we won't.

There is another assumption that is being not applied that really surprises me: Sociopath's flip.

If my UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE does move forward AND I am right that means:

1.) If there are scum within said ALLIANCE they are bussing said partners for ultimately minimal gain (as said ALLIANCE is not going to stop being a point of contention).
2.) I am right about said players.

Further, you seem to be operating under the assumption that this is mountainous - if the setup was like that I would most definitely lean towards your viewpoint. However, I'm confident to say Magic The Gathering isn't going to be a mountainous setup.

So, I've put myself in a position where if I WAS scum there are a myriad of roles that would out me right quick.

You do bring up a point about DDD being a neutral faction and I haven't decided how that alters the setup as a whole in regards to the balance - although if he does have to be joined with Ben before he wins then he has just as much of an interest in finding scum as town.

That's not the only question. The real question is, does allowing you to do this raise or lower the town's chances of winning, compared with just lynching you today. My goal is to have the town win this game; lynching scum is just a means to that end.

There are two, mostly unrelated, reasons I am voting you now.

See if you actually think I'm scum that's fine then. Stop belaboring the other points so that if and when you get your way and I'm dead the aforementioned flip doesn't give you the out of "ohh he was anti-town thus I am in no way accountable for said lynch"

What I'm doing is unorthodox, sure. I'm already very tempted to kick tajo out of my plan for needing to reread this thread - which isn't a difficult task at this point.

So, if you want to call scum-gambit thats fine. I just want the record to be clear.

[SpyreX]

Minimal gain?

If there is scum in the "allinace", and the rest of the town lets the alliance thing happen, then the scum win the game. How the hell is that "minimal gain"?

Now lets take tajo out because his reread comment means he's not alliance material. So we're looking at three of us.

So, lets say rocks fall and everyone but the three of us die - then it's going to be playing ferret out the scum amongst us due to their play. So, the "scum" would be in a precarious position because they'd have had to be super-bussing the whole way and then have to be able to justify it at that point.

Unless, like I said, I have the best inverted radar and managed to pick two scum.

That lived until that point.

And managed not to do anything to raise eyebrows - especially mine.

Well then I'd be dead.

That would "out you"? What do you mean? If you're speculating about/fishing for a cop already, on page 6 of a game, that's another strike against you.

I'm pretty sure that I detailed that out in the quote you referenced when you said it.

The chances of this being mountainous are minimal. Therefore IF I WERE SCUM I have pained a gigantic "PR's come here and bust my ass, please" by the simple act of performing this.

This isn't rolefishing. Or cop-hunting. I was very clear in saying any informational or hell protectional role late game would bust me.

Unless you're making the point that setup speculation is scummy well then thats a different ball of wax.

Dude, you're missing the point.

Even if I thought you were no better then a random lynch here, I would still vote you. Consider it a pressure vote to pressure you to stop acting in an anti-town way, with a commitment to lynch you if absolutly necessary to stop you from acting in the anti-town way. I would do that for anyone acting in an anti-town way; lurking, fishing for power roles, ect. This is just an extreme example of anti-town behavior on your part.

I am not pressured. UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE doesn't mean put on blinders and hit the cruise control for cool.

Ultimately it's no different to me than going - hey, I think you guys are town and am not planning on voting for you any time soon. Lets work together to lynch this guy that I think is scummy. And, if he's scum, lets do a secret handshake and keep on keepin' on.

Explain to me how town could possibly win if we don't lynch you today and one member of your alliance is scum.

By lynching them? I'm still not seeing this huge dichotomy. I'm not playing like they are masons that simply CANT BE SCUM OMG. They're just these dudes, ya know?

Moreso, a lot is dependent on Sociopath's flip. If he's scum I'm going to be a LOT more confident in my picks now and yes, a little smug.

I mean, stop and think about what your plan means. If you think one of the people in your alliance is acting scummy tommorow, are you going to attack and vote him? Are you going to break your "unbreakable alliance"? Becuase from what you're saying right now, I doubt it, and if you are town that's really, really bad for the town.

Maybe this will clear it up if the above didn't:

Yes if anyone in said unbreakable alliance started acting scummy I'd put a noose around their necks before they could even go "Ohh no the ALLIANCE GRBRBRBRBLL"

[SpyreX]

*as an aside we've got a case of the lurkeritis real bad. Yos and I can continue to fight our good fight but the fact we've got so many nonplayers is disheartening.

One, I'm going to send a prodwagon through now if anyone needs it, and two, I'm posting a VC today. Sorry about not doing it yesterday but I got kidnapped for Robot Chicken on Wheels

[SpyreX]

That's not what would happen, though. What would happen is there would be 5 people left, you guys would lynch someoen not in your alliance, the scum would kill someone in your allaince, and then there would be 3 people left; 2 in your alliance, 1 not. In that case, unless you break your "unbreakable alliance", the scum in your alliance automatically wins the game. And that is what would happen, if there's one scum in your alliance; the scum would ride your alliance all the way close to end game, then kill one of the town people in your alliance and use the other to win the game for the scum.

I already explained this, SpyreX. Are you not even reading my posts here?

And I've said that I do not expect blinders. In that scenario if the other person is not scummy I'd sure as hell expect the hammer to get dropped on said alliance member.

Well, then, on the off chance that all three of you are town, you just set it up so the three of you would draw cop investigations AND scum kills. Which is also very bad for the town, since then the confiremd innocents would get scumkilled.

Really, I can't see any situation where this plan of yours does NOT hurt the town.

Thats the breaks of standing out some. And assumes a binary use of PR's and NK's which I doubt would happen - I'm saying the chances of me getting chose for a PR are high due to today, not that every PR ever is going to hit every member of said alliance one by one and the scum twirling their mustaches are going to off us the night it happens.

So, what's the point, then, if it's not actually an "unbreakable alliance"?

I really don't get what you're trying to do here.

Mostly getting Sociopath lynched now and moving from there.

I think you're taking me far more serious than I am taking me and that's part of the issue.

Speaking of that since as fun as it is the two of us bashing our heads against this which its obvious neither will bend lets talk about that:

1.) Sociopath has came after me under the guise of anti-town behavior in not being interested in other games. However, he is currently voting Porkens for the sig issues - but didn't reference the fact that Porkens also expressed said "anti-town" sentiments.

2.) Unlike you who have at least came down and said you can see this as a scum move, Sociopath's "hunting" has been a case of looking for zebras and not horses as it were - the "sig-vig" because its a Tar setup (whcih its not), the implication of a myriad of enemy forces against us, the multi-setup being far more important than it is (which I can get into in detail but ultimately it's going to be moderately useful at the VERY BEST and actively unhelpful as a mean), etc.

3.) Sociopath posted AFTER said alliance came into place and didn't even bother to mention it. Or push on it. Which makes far more sense as waiting to guage reactions versus a town who would, one hope, come out with some fire against it.

----

Additionally, and this should come as no surprise, Mufasa confuses the hell out of me.

1.) Pushing for the DDD night kill.
2.) Pointing out a supposed "soft claim" from my posts for reasons I dont understand.
3.) Asking about opinions on SSK's game when sans lovers hasn't done anything in THIS game
4.) Suggesting not once, but twice, lynching players in a different subgame apparently simply because.
5.) Joining said alliance that has killing him as a #2 priority.

I dont know what to make of any of that.

[SpyreX]

Now, you see, that might be scummy but for an entierly different reason.

Not if I'm right.

But, of course I see what you're getting at. I have from the start - even if I think its a little too much the sky is falling mentality.

If Sociopath flips "SCUM" I'd give our chances to win a massive boost. If not, yea I'm going to look pretty silly with this egg all over my face.

Yeah, I took you at your word, that you actually wanted to "form an unbreakable allaince" that would not be broken "until only alliance members were left". If you didn't actually mean that/ are retracting it now, then that's somewhat less of a problem; still, alliances in mafia games aren't that unusual, especally with new players it seems to happen a lot, but in my experence it almost always ends badly for the town.

I'm not good at subtle irony. THE UNBREAKABLE ALLIANCE is, like anything in mafia, anything but unbreakable. However, if I am right about Sociopath I'll feel a lot more comfortable about them in general.

And yes if I was proposing simply putting blinders on then hoss yes.

Which question did you ask sociopath that he hasn't answered?

[SpyreX]

Ohh yes. I'd love to see the answer to that.

I asked a similar question and I got how naive I was and how this is a Tar setup.

[SpyreX]

:headdesk:

Ohh mufasa. You are a beautiful flower.

[SpyreX]

Secrets within secrets.

How about this for discussion:

I tenatively agree with Quag about mufasa. However, I also agree with Porken's pre-sig that fell away (OHH NO WHAT NOW SOCIOPATH).

[SpyreX]

Mufasa is definitely not a pick for classical "scum" at the moment in my mind - and if Sociopath is scum I'd all but bet on mufasa NOT being scum as well.

However, the play in general reeks of either neutral or VI.

[SpyreX]

Ohh I forgot:

Flava is giving his A+ effort thus far. Much like Zazie. Much like Tajo.

We need a tactical nuke, I think is what I'm getting at.

[SpyreX]

As Zito answered, our first game together.

Why did I QFT Porkens in regard to Mufasa? Because mufasa is a special flower that needs bullets.

Its accepted, to me, that DDD is telling the truth because the other options make even LESS sense. Notice that I am also far, far more in favor of foisting him out of this game versus letting them get benmage here in case I am wrong.

The deal with Yos is I could very easily see town responding to what I'm doing the way he has. Scum too, but its not like a clearcut OHH GOD HE BE SCUM move.

I like your style though. Keep posting kthx.

[SpyreX]

The "its not a Tar game" is pretty obvious BS, and saying things that happen in Tar games are irrelevant here, and trying to pull the wool of ignorance over peoples' eyes. Yes, I know that Lord Gurgi is the PRIMARY designer of this game, but to act as if these games were designed in a vacuum is very naive. They were made together, they are played together. All three (Tar, Gurg, Nat) most likely had joint partisipation in others while keeping a flow they wanted in particular for their own games. The fact that FL picked up and modding it proves that it wasn't a blind shot in the dark for mods to run the game. So as long as Tar is even INVOLVED IN THE PROCESS, I'm going to consider this to be similar to Tar games.

So lets follow this:

We have three Mods: SSK, FL and Tar.
Further we have a universal backup: Gurgi.

FL's game FL said that Gurgi was the key designer of her game.
SSK game SK said that Natirasha was the hey designer of his game.
Tars game Tar said that Tar was the key designer of his game.

So, could Tar be a heavy part of all three games? Maybe... but then why would the other two specifically say who was the key designer?

Could it be so that if people were looking for a Tar setup they could find it? I think so.

Instead, you are saying despite the evidence to the contrary that Tar trumps all other mods and therefore Porken's is a super-secret anti-town role. (Or was, that has changed with his -insert shock here- ability to remove his sig).

I stated a few roles that would work for that setup prior, but if that wasn't specific enough for you, I'll use based-on-real-games examples:

There have been games where there have been day SKs and day cult recruiters, that would function if they got others to say a particular word or phrase.

One on game there was a single word that an SK had, that even enough people said it, or at the end of the day, I don't remember which, but they would die. There was another role to balance that out to protect from the SK to get people to say another word to negate the SK end-of-day effect. I'm rambling a bit because this is based solely on memory.

For a cult case, similar deal, say a particular word or phase, and you're recruited.

What I was worried about is whether or not it was a similar ability, and paranoid about people quoting it would be fulfilling his potentially anti-town win condition.

Examples. Please.

However, even without them - what has removed your worry? In fact, I quoted it blankly - shouldn't you be MORE worried? Further if this was your actual concern the fact he did it enough to make it a talking point should be evidence to keep your vote there, but somehow it wasn't.

As far as the whole Ben/DDD thing, I was pretty neutral for the most part, and didn't have any information to say that wouldn't just be parroting someone else.
But the time passing since my last post and last reading of that game...Ben having a 'safe claim' is veeeeeeeery odd, and by odd I mean scummy.

But what I don't like the most about Ben, is his unwillingness to participate other than getting switched out. He blatantly said he was going to be dead weight. This is anti-town to the core, but the kicker is, would be his eagerness (yes I'm using this word with purposeful negative connotations) to get into another game.

His emotions seem very two-face: He is very uncaring and indifferent about being in any way shape or form a part of the game. That is, until it comes to joining him with DDD. You would think someone who is so passionate about fulfilling his win condition (by playing the game to get to DDD) would be more passionate about playing the rest of the game to actually fulfill his win con.

He seems to be faking disinterest to seem more neutral.

DDD's posts are harder to get a read on, but he mostly seems to be doing damage control for Ben. Anything that Ben does, DDD seems to be tip-toeing around to make it more palatable for the public eye.

Yea, the neutral who is only concerned with survival is faking to seem more neutral. There's the buzzword anti-town again - which really doesn't make sense because he, himself, admitted his role isn't a town one.

Nice backup-wagon stance though. I approve.

Its ridiculous to try and pull the 'its too scummy to be scum' crap with something as majorly scummy as that. Scum try to control the town, subtly usually, but been obvious about it doesn't make it anymore less controlling of the town. Scum also try to buddy, and your method is obvious buddying.

Really, its like you said to yourself, 'well what are things that scum generally do, well I'll do THAT times TEN, and therefore its too scummy to be seen as scum!'

That is, unless you were using it to gain reactions from the people you called out to join your alliance. Which at this point I highly, highly doubt. Especially with your pussyfooting about when it comes to the solidity of your alliance.

'Its UNBREAKABLE...unless someone does something to break it'

Yes I went TRAP SPRUNG you hath fallen for the too scummy to be scummy ruse. :twirls mustache:

Like I said, I'm mostly concerned with getting you, who I am pretty sure is scum, lynched. Now when that happens me and my alliance peeps get to raise a glass with a helll yea and then go from there.

I did get some reactions that are very interesting. Not from the alliance itself (who are tech) but from the people who ignored it (you), the people who tried to join even though that makes no sense (Mufasa) and the people who attacked it on understandable grounds (Yos).

And the latter brings me to a new point:

He's semi-lruking, he's even reading and commenting on other games, but his comments on this game are quite lacking. He voted spy for a bad reason. Then he defended his vote for spy and removed it in the same post (where he unovted Spy, but at the same time, said that he "didn't like it that spy wasn't going to read the other games.) Then he tried to have it both ways about my opposition to spy's alliance (he both agreed with me and said the strength of my opposition was "a little weird" in the same sentance). And that's all he's said about this game, despite apparently having enough time to read and comment on the other games.

I don't think he's at all interested in scumhunting in this game, which probably means he's scum.

So you think that Sociopath is "looking for scum" versus "looking for a lynch"?

I'll give you that FF is definitely a nice solid choice for a backup lynch but seriously?

[SpyreX]

Of course they'd take Zito.

Welp,

Vote: Sociopath.

[SpyreX]

Nope, just a man with a plan.

Hows about you?

[SpyreX]

Thats MR.Lyncher to you.

'Course, thats probably too tame for WACKY HIJINKS Tar setup.

BTW - why'd you give in and stop with the I'm a vig bidness?

[SpyreX]

Sorry - the "If I was a vig" business.

[SpyreX]

As an aside: looks like the jumpin around mechanic is going to play a larger role than I hoped.

It's a Tar game, what can I say?

(sorry, I had to say it at least once)

[SpyreX]

Its part of my plan you know.

If I'm anti-town for not caring about the other games AND anti-town for my alliance the two negatives theorem kicks in and thusly I am the towniest player that has ever played. EVER.

Would lyncher even BE a power role? Or just a jerk?

Remind me to answer this post game. Any answer I give now could be mod bias

[SpyreX]

The more I think about it the more I'm not thrilled with the fact this jump happened while we were in day.

I've been playing around with theories about how this sucker works and the best I can come up with is: a town* player in the OTHER game that is at night targeted A person and the other two were aftereffects of -crazy portal mechanic-

*simply means not in the -scum- group because if they can move players around I call teaparty.

This simply means that I hope that said person doesn't get all willy nilly with it because SERIOUS REPERCUSSIONS.

There's another juicy tidbit in the Sociopath lynch that really makes me want it - aside from, ya know, him being scum and all.

[SpyreX]

... Willing to lynch a player that hasn't even posted in this game yet but Zazie is AOK?

Yos is "taking heat"?

I...

If I were a vig, I'd shoot Flava Flave.

[SpyreX]

@Yos:

I've got more travel concerns/ideas but that can wait. ONTO THE SHOW:

His response removed HALF of my worries. So I'm less worried overall.

As for examples, that is going to take actual time searching, as much time has passed since I've read the game(s). So I'll save that for another post.

Ohh giant letters. Lets see if what we've seen in the past would make any semblance of HALF make sense:

I'm

happy

with Porkens now that he humored my wishes.
Unvote

Swish.

This is a weird little bit. I'm pretty positive that Yos was referring to Flav, hence the vote, and yet you quote that and mention me. Are you purposely trying to misconstrue words to draw more attention to me? Whats worse is Yos ignores that completely. Spy and Yos might actually be scum together, and Yos' attacks are that of a distancing nature.

Yos started this and although we're on our way to being BFF's (dare I say UNBREAKABLE BFF's) allow me to retort:

I don't think he's at all interested in scumhunting in this game, which probably means he's scum.

While I agree with Yos's sentiment, I find your absence of these things greater. Hence my confusion when, to me, Yos is voting for someone doing the same things you are doing to a lesser extent.

So yes Yos was able to properly infer my meaning from that statement. How that would equate to us being scum together...it is a mystery.

...but don't worry about THAT, its in another game. A completely other game that has nothing to do with us. Despite the fact that players an switch games, and the fact that the games have to be balanced with each other. Which means similar roles and concepts. But hey, lets forget all about THAT now, shall we? Razz

At least you are willing to affirm over and over again that your win condition sure isn't the same as mine.

Budja is now part of my universe. Hence, he will be parsed and dealt with accordingly. Sadly, Zito is past the stars now and hopefully will find his giant bed of Syreens to lie about with but he is gone.

We weep, we move on. So the story goes.

But, lets play your game for a skosh. What were said "recent events" and how does talking about THAT versus finding said scum in THIS game help further OUR winning. (Well, my winning - I think we know that it does help YOUR winning).

(hint: if the response is any form of "I'm not going to SPOON FEED you PLEB the sweetest of INFORMATION" then lets skip the middle man and go right to the fakeclaim and lynch)

[SpyreX]

You keep talking about your own win condition, and saying that mine is different from yours. I am willing to believe that, because you speak with such certainty, but to imply that your win condition is a town based one and thereby saying mine is not because of how it differs from yours, is a stretch.

I would reeeeeeeally like to see what you would do if you were to switch games. Your whole world would turn upside down. You would be lynched in a second, and then lose your game, because everyone in other games should act like you too, right? You die, they fulfill their win conditions...and so forth. Really, it seems like you are only pushing debates for your own selfish reasons...when you don't actually know how the win conditions are played out.

Those selfish reasons might be SK in nature. Maybe you think that if I am scum...that lynching me will put you in the clear. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you turned up being another elder dragon.

But thats not important right now, because I still find Yos and you to be rather nice-nice to each other in a warped way.

But say what you're implying is correct, about the win con, and that would imply that all town in other games should be treated as scum if they were to show up. They're certainly not of your faction. They are of their own subgames faction. So townies from other games need to die too?

Then that would mean...scum or not, everyone switched needs to die. The whole debate about 'switch scum out and in games to help/hurt the games' would be void. There could be multiple scum groups apart from SKs only. So really...every single person that is switch, would be assumed to be 'scum' to this games win conditions.

That is certainly a xenophobic way to look at things.

That would also mean that everyone by default should support a Budja vote, for he is not one of us.

"ONE OF US! ONE OF US! ONE OF US!"

I don't wish to resort to that yet.

I read this. Then I read it again. It just doesn't make sense. I...think? this is a giant strawman but I can't be sure.

However, I just can't help myself so allow me to retort:

1.)

Oddly enough if our conditions for winning are different it is not some giant leap of logic to assume, therefore,

we do not share the same win condition

. Thus, if I am town (which I am) and you do NOT share my condition you are not-town.

As I find the chances of you being neutral to be minimal you must be not-town-not-neutral-scum.

2.) If I were to be whisked away to a different game my world wouldn't be "turned upside down" by any stretch of the imagination. Much like replacing, I'd go "hey, gimme a minute to catch up" and then I would and it'd be all sweet.

Additionally, and this is important and makes me 100% space sure you don't have my condition

- if I switched games MY condition WOULD match their conditions; the major element of it (the game itself) would be all that changed.

3.) This is where this post really goes off the rails: where, WHERE, where have I even SUGGESTED xenophobia and/or "kill all players that switched into this game because they switched in"? Because that would be stupid. And scummy. And real stupid. Further, how is that a natural implication from anything I've said?

You, sir, are stretching. Quite a bit.

I'd suggest getting that fakeclaim all warmed up, because its time to go on the grill.

CHOO CHOO

Official Warning for this post. Skirting Rule 1

Underline portions are violations of:

<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!


(But I'll roll together both warnings as only one warning, so you know)

[SpyreX]

You have got to be KIDDING me.

No way in hells bells. I simply can't buy it.

MAYBE if it was a town PR with a different win condition but the EXACT same one and somehow all of this and that weird xenophobia remark.

I have no words.

Official Warning for this post. Skirting Rule 1

Clarification:
Underlined Portions are violations of:

<1a> Attempting to use loopholes in the rules to gain an advantage in the game is considered jackassery, and will be treated as such. This applies to things like encrypted codes, invisible text, editing and deleting posts,

trying to use the structure of the role PM to gain an advantage

, etc. Please, use your common sense!

[SpyreX]

.... Huh

Awesome. I wont mention that what shouldn't be mentioned anymore.

Vote: Flava Flave

[SpyreX]

No I was being serious.

I wont mention what shouldn't be mentioned anymore. I apologize for it.

The ...huh was at Yos being a survivor.

[SpyreX]

I'd love to see the Flave-rationale for Budja.

And, yes, we do need to pick it up more than a little. Lets get moving forwards.

[SpyreX]

I didn't get genuine at all from his confusion. I got guilty and nervous.

It all makes perverse sense to me. Not saying that he should get off scott free, but considering the meltdown and subsequent events I would be way more down with the Flav today.

[SpyreX]

Ohh lordy be mufasa.

You truly are something. Needless to say, creature claim (which probably is a rule infraction) even if not not a great idea for day 1.

@Tajo:

"They" being whomever moved Zito away.

[SpyreX]

You -could- very well be right about slivers being scum.

However, I'd bet a billion million dollars after SAYING that that scum wouldn't actually go "sup I'm slivers, yo."

[SpyreX]

I'm not willing to gamble every town role coming out on something that is never, EVER, "easy".

[SpyreX]

Not town, what a surprise.

Further, needing to kill specific roles sure doesn't sound like a "ohh he's neutral" business.

[SpyreX]

Kind of S&S like but I trust "I'm neutral that has to see people die but I have no kills I promise" real far.

[SpyreX]

Why the push for a scumlist during night actions?

[SpyreX]

Because regardless of HIS alignment the ability to manipulate actions helps scum more than town?

[SpyreX]

Ohh yea I'm totally for it tomorrow and consider this me pushing for that as well.

Its just one of those risk/reward situations where its not worth it.

[SpyreX]

The "attention" from me is null. Its more "get in the game" and less "scum busted"

[SpyreX]

Well, with 8 left we better hope there is only two mafia or we're in truly a predicament.

I'll be doing some looking to see if anything stands out.

Not down with Sociopath at the moment.

[SpyreX]

Hi, I'm this game.

How are you doing? I miss you.

Perhaps you could come back over and talk about me some more? I am a jealous lover.

Love, this game.

[SpyreX]

This needs to get picked up. Lets play a little game.

@All:

4 players in this game. Your thoughts. A least a few lines on each.

I'll be doing it as well.

Failure to cooperate will face my wrath.

[SpyreX]

Thoughts on this game:

Budja: No real contribution. Scummy for thus.

Zazie: No contribution after the prod. Or really before. Scummy for thus.

Mufasa: Clinically insane . Far, far too much contribution in other games, not enough here. Scummy for thus.

Quagmire: Not really saying much about any of the above players. I understand the logic behind Sociopath even if I dont agree with it but. Leaning town.

Porkens: The early DDD/BM discussion is a huge +. The early vote for Flava Flave is another +. I really like 24 (again, I agree). Hard leaning' town.

SocioPath: Partially process of elimination, partially the madness early day 1. Leaning town. More contribution though.

Jammer: Overall, leaning town. Would definitely like more out of him. The response in his last post towards me is a little off.

Looking at Tajo there's nothing that really stands out except for the fact he was right about Yos and Flava - and was a shining paragon of townieness. No real pushes or anything that would point at someone directly.

So:

Team "not playing in this game" needs to step it up.

Fairly comfortable to say my choice for lynch today (and probably all the scum) have to exist within: (Budja, Zazie, Mufasa).

Of the three I'm going with:

Unvote, Vote: Budja

[SpyreX]

Its not time for any wraths yet. This game needs activity.

Then sweet, sweet wrath.

[SpyreX]

This game is making me pull my eyes out.

Mufasa is going around the horn to "playing so scummy on purpose he has to be scum"

Lets pull it together and if, as it appears, we dont want to talk, lynch and pray that something interesting happens.

[SpyreX]

You know what?

Fine. FINE.

Unvote, Vote: Zazier

Choo choo up on this wagon. Pile on, the water is great.

[SpyreX]

....

That is just peachy keen.

God in heaven I have no idea to make of them taking Zaz and Mufasa.

Unless there's some kind of cross-game scum win condition or something I just dont understand.

However. It might be time to examine some mechanics and look for a pattern. Fast. Since that just totally derailed the hell out of that wagon.

[SpyreX]

I could get behind a quaglynch.

Budja's post makes sense. Although I'm still trying to feel out how/who the jumps help more. Gut says scum, but if the goal is to win by filling a game and they're taking scum OUT of this game well gg us?

This new Sajin/Kai discussion better come to fruition.

[SpyreX]

My head goes where it wants.

WHERE IT WANTS.

SEE!

Unvote, Vote: Quagmire

Choo choo!

I liked what he said about Mufasa, however the fact that Zaz is a.) probably scum and b.) not hung because of lollygagging is enough for this

[SpyreX]

Hold up by process of elimination who have you left?

(Hint: Vote for Quag)

[SpyreX]

And if they are scum together a whole mess of whats going on is explained.

If he's posting and not here at L-1 I'm not going to shed a tear. I'd like to see a claim, but.

[SpyreX]

Him not voting for zaz, allowing the other game to move his partner out. The "policy lynch is retarded business", etc.

If Quag is scum I'd be 80% on Zaz being scum too.

[SpyreX]

Shoop shoop.

Unvote, Vote Jammer

[SpyreX]

Note: Lynching the cop to prove the cop's claim is awesome.

[SpyreX]

I am more than a little frightened that we have lynched correctly each time and have yet to hit freaking mafia. Two SK's / Two Neutrals started out here.... this doesn't leave a lot of room for actual "mafia".

Further, Quag does this mean you KNOW Mufasa isn't scum?

Sheer numbers means I'm lookin REAL hard at you replacement folks. Quag is town. Porkens is town. Sociopath is most likely town.

Which means our original scum have left or we didn't have any.

If the former: Mufasa COULD be a GF, but more likely was investigated and clean. Which means "scum" by definition would have to be Zaz + Zito. Which I don't like since Zito was feelin town but thems the numbers. I wouldn't let Mufasa off the hook though.

If the latter: There is scum amongst our three jumpers. Kai hasn't done enough. Budja could go either way but leanin town. Sajin, however, hasn't done ANYTHING.

Things to ponder.

[SpyreX]

....

I think I'd REALLY rather you did. Or, hell, both of you.

(Scoop scoop)

[SpyreX]

Wait, what?

You know you were the target of the mafia kill in Tar's thread.

You also know that Kai targeted you?

[SpyreX]

Shouting "HAY I AM A PR" doesn't dissuade me from a claim.

Far from it.

Especially when there is something awry now between what you two are saying.

[SpyreX]

You sure don't seem to be worried about getting NK'd.

Funny thing, that.

[SpyreX]

Hints don't do much for me.

Not that I necessarily believe Sajin any more than I believe you but the two stories presented don't add up.

I'd like them to add up.

I'd like it. A lot.

You'd also like me to like it.

[SpyreX]

The cat is out the bag. Lets go ahead and skin it then Sajin.

[SpyreX]

...

I dont know what to make of it.

On paper that's a very strange role. If it IS true no way in hell is it scum.

However, that sure could be third party.

The hell do you mean by "others like me". Are you implying something that I just don't understand?

I'm not thrilled by this. However, some of the pieces do add up.

[SpyreX]

...and Kai crossposts into my BRAIN.

God I don't know what to make of you two.

As it stands of the originals in this game I can't think we have "scum". There MAY be a third party role left but all my brainpowers say town.

Which means the fact this game isn't over is squarely on Budja and you two.

Just how many and which ones.

[SpyreX]

Hold the phone.

I really don't like half-claims like that.

If you're gonna keep oozing PR claims all willy nilly (which is now a convoluted claim since you target AND apparently do something else as well) you better spill it. And fast.

It could make sense as mafia if this was an elaborate Gambit. It could totally make sense.

I don't like Sajin doing nothing until night time. I'm very concerned with your attitude towards this all. I also don't like how Budja was paying attention and not sharing.

Process of elimination says you're all gonna burn. Question is only who first.

[SpyreX]

And now Porkens climbs into my brain. AWESOME.

[SpyreX]

If you're gonna try to lynch me, then try to lynch me. You don't get my claim until then. Also, I'm having far too much fun making the best out of the mess that Sajin landed me in to stop now.

I'm not sure what you're hoping to get by taunting me. There is no try. There is only do. The rivers, nay, the whole universe will quake when I gather my ALLIANCE back from the stars above and the graves themselves to turn you and your empire into rubble.

Back up your points. The assertion itself means nothing without evidence.

You pair o' scums get shoved into this game, be it by your own powa's or by someone elses.

Sajin then goes "I saw you target me before we came here."
You then say "No, I totally did this other thing that is unknowable. YOU HATH OUTED A POWER ROLE."
He then says "Ohh, yea, it was all a lol, gambit. My bad."
You go "Ohh no biggie. Just means you can't be scum. Tea for everyone."

The tricky bit is the fact this gambit-that-wasn't a gambit is wrapped in a true gambit: both of you coming into this game where we've been stomping the universe are naturally suspect. Thus, throwing yourselves into a situation where it doesn't natrually add up for you being scum together (because a bus would be WAY too obvious) sets it up so one death "clears" the other.

Except, well, none of it makes sense. Not the way you two reacted to each other, not the secret-club handshake you gave him after he outed you, not the lamentation over OUTING A PR and then repeatedly using said PR as the bringer of doom if any would dare touch you.

In fact, the threat itself makes little sense considering you're under little pressure and if you thought, actually thought that we were scum and you had some kinda powers you'd aim for getting hit. Maybe by faking something more awesome than the cop we got out.

Instead of playing preservation.

@Porkens: Huh? How can I kill scum on my own. I targetted Mastin last Night, and he's not dead, so my ability is obviously not a kill. Are you trying to infer that I'm a vig or something?

Except, see, you could be lying? Ya know, the point of the game and all.

Preview Edit:

I was attempting to convey that you would be lynched rather quickly if you shot me once people saw my roleflip. Sorry if I worded it badly.

What?

What?

[SpyreX]

Why would your role give a full flip of your abilities when others haven't?

I....

You...

What?

As an aside I put on the tinfoilest of hats (Quag is a rolecop not a cop) but then it doesn't add up right.

I'm trying to puzzle my way through this. Especially considering mechanics.

This game had at most 1 scum at start.

Zazier - ?
Mufasa - ?
SpyreX - Awesome
Quagmire - Cop
Porkens - ?
SocioPath - ?
Zito - ?
Flava Flave - Hitman (Neutral)
populartajo - Vanilla
jammer - SK
Debonair Danny DePietro - Neutral
Yosarian2 - Survivor

So, with flips we have one PR, two SKs and two Neutrals.

If one assumes that at least one of the switching powers is scum and an actual in-game scum "group" then we have an all but unwinnable for town day 2 possibility: SK kills town, SK kills town, Neutral leaves, Scum swap a town for a scum, Scum kills town. That'd be town down FIVE players total. No way.

So, either the switching is not scum or scum started weak in this game.. or both but that hurts the brain.

Actually, most of this game hurts the brain. I can't get not paranoid. Mufasa reeks of godfather. I STILL could see a Quag-rolecop / Zaz (something) setup where they were counting on another game to give escape. Then there is the Kai/Saj Boston Teaparty. And sociopath dropping off the radar after day1gate. And budja kinda chillaxin'.

And Zito, dear sweet Zito, taken away.

With Tajo dead that leaves only Porkens that has the town cologne on.

Besides me, of course, the bottler, manufacturer and patent holder of said cologne.

So, I've gotta give benefit of the doubt. If Quag rolecopped jammer and got a flip well gg for now. Which -kinda- clears some of the zaz suspcion.

There will never be an explanation for Mufasa.

So, back to you three.

Sajin's gambit seems to have only negative town outcomes.
Kai just lol'reactioned me.
Budja is chillaxin' too much.

It HAS to be you three.
HAS to.

If all three of you are town I'll, in fact, eat said hats.

[SpyreX]

And with that, goodnight.

[SpyreX]

What version of DnD huh?

The latest one! 3.5! Though it's been awhile since they did an update...

[SpyreX]

Hehe our mod sounds like a 3.5 purist but that can be a debate for a different place (note: I did enjoy 3.5 but I love 4.0 and, as a DM, would never want to run 3.5 again)

I figure we have to talk about something else since we're never going to see tomorrow.

4.0 is dead to me ever since a magic missle missed.

I don't CARE if it's at will. You violated the phlebotemnueumatic principles of magic fucking missle.

Anyway, as for day starting, the issue is almost resolved. Day should start in the vicinity of tomorrow if I'm right

[SpyreX]

Welp, I'm gonna go ahead and throw something out that I am stoked to the rafters about.

I killed Kai. Yesterday I was given an enchantment that let me perform a kill and I took it after all that bizarro world business during twilight.

So, yea, there was no scum kill OR they killed the same target.

Really leaning towards a massclaim today (if it doesn't break 1a, that is).

Name and role are fine. However, using the structure of the role PM to break the game is bad. So, the idea is don't use rolenames like "It has this, so you gotta be town!"

[SpyreX]

And from my Kai in isolation the only thing for SURE is that Pyro was investigated and came up clean.

..... is sweet and all but, what?

[SpyreX]

Actually: @Mods - Would a massclaim (including flavor-paraphrase) be considered a breach of 1a?

On a side note. Unless Kai is crazyface he got a clear on Pyro and targeted Mastin for ?.

I'm kinda...hesistant on Quag but with Kai coming from a different game woosh.

I'm really itchin for this claim to work out some numbers. But, cart before the horse and all that.

Name and Rolename are fine. quoting abilities if any is not. Flavor paraphrase should likely be run past me or another one of the mods first

[SpyreX]

How I found him scummy after that whole "Don't shoot me or there will be DIREEE CONSEQNCES"? business?

We're getting low enough that it could have been a scum move and, frankly, I hate softclaims and find them scummy enough that with the amount of activity twilight versus daytime I took my shot. I'm not psyched he was a cop but I'm not shedding tears either.

[SpyreX]

2 scum is bad because this is mylo then and with hitting right each time I'd be not stoked.

In fact, the ONLY way that could be is if 1 of (Sajin, Budja) is scum.

I'm still leaning hard but if Quag is scum (which could be) then we're looking at a whole different business.

Hence my desire for a mass claim.

[SpyreX]

Well I missed that for a skosh but we're up to speed now.

I'm Marrow Gnawer, Vanilla Townie (Black).

Since I'm proactive and greasing this pig: Budja, claim plox.

[SpyreX]

Note: Thats a suggestion. If you post, claim. Period.

Or get hung, your choice.

[SpyreX]

....awesome.

WELP NOTHING TO SEE THERE.

Vote: Porkens

Even though I giggled, real claims are tech.

[SpyreX]

... awesome.

Roleclaim.

Why Kai at that juncture?

[SpyreX]

Nothing gets me hotter than that response. (I forgot about Great Glass-Spinner).

So, based on READING THE THREAD you're saying your role is "Alignment Cop".

Further, you've just inferred that Kai was your least "good read" versus players like Budja who have said very little overall (and been in here longer) and/or Saijin who has a very wacky claim... not counting actually getting a hit on Sociopath (the "scum") when you were outed.

So, yea, Porkens does this mesh with whatever VOODOO you insinuated (hint: real claim too).

[SpyreX]

...catching the SK could have just as easily been done by a rolecop as a normal cop.

We're running real short on later - if we're looking at two scum (we better not be) then its mylo. If we're looking at one tomorrow is mylo.

I want the rest of the claims and do some number crunching.

And Porkens you are making my brain itch. Le sigh.

[SpyreX]

Porkens - how do you know who he visted as a doc? Am I missing something?

Sajin - I'm awful lazy, can you repost your claim while we wait for the estranged others.

I've got the beginnings of a plan a brewin, but I want the rest of the claims first.

[SpyreX]

Aww, damnit. It's a different game not this one for your redirect, no?

Booo

[SpyreX]

Cant say that claim surprises me.

Ohh budja, come hither.

[SpyreX]

I would rolefish more but I dont think I physically can.

Unvote, Vote: Budja

Barring a miracle, this is where I'm going.

Porkens is saying Quag visted Kai. Quag is confirming this. There is no way in hell both of them are scum in this setup. None. Further, *gasp* I looked at the other game and Mufasa isn't dead which means that there was no attempt on Quag.

Sociopath would have been powerlynched with how this went if he hadn't claimed vanilla.

Sajin doesn't make sense as mafia. Maybe a survivor. Mayyybe.

Which leaves Budja.

[SpyreX]

......OHHHHH

Hmm, that changes things a little. Not too much though.

Step up from what, hmm?

I'm cool with my vote and wagon, choo choo, but I want to parse something out and want actual input (Sociopath / Budja, THIS MEANS YOU).

Back in a flash

[SpyreX]

Zazier - ?
Mufasa - ?
SpyreX - Vanilla
Quagmire - Cop
Porkens - Doctor / Space-Murderer
SocioPath - Vanilla
Zito - ? (Cleared by a cop I think in somewherelands?)
Flava Flave - Hitman (Neutral)
populartajo - Vanilla
jammer - SK (Neutral)
Debonair Danny DePietro - Neutral Lover
Yosarian2 - Survivor (Neutral)

------

25) SpyreX - Vanilla
5) Budja - ?
9) Sajin - BP Space-Jumper
32) Quagmire - Cop
33) Porkens - Doctor / Space Murderer
35) SocioPath - Vanilla

So, with updates (Bare with me there's going to be some rambling).

Looking at the first setup I can't buy two scum. Still. If there WAS a scum in that initial mess then they've long since departed (MUFASA HINT HINT MUFASA LOOK AT THIS IT IS MUFASA SWOOP).

Which means that of the initial grouping I think we've hit all the non-town roles (which, if mufasa was scum, is FIVE for goodness sake).

So, that said - the game is still going.

I have to buy Sajin for now. It's got just enough to feel genuine.
So, process of elimination says it has to be Budja.

NOW, if I am wrong about that lets play super-tinfoil hat.

Budja gets lynched and Sajin is lying he's going to do whatever he can to GTFO before daybreak. Because, yea, dead to rights.

OR, if I am really wrong and we started at Neutral / Neutral / SK / SK / Scum / Scum (explode) it'd HAVE to be mufasa / Quag/Socio.

Mufasa and Quag have this weird love thing going on and the whole business yesterday makes me think a Quag/Socio team is all but impossible. However, balance makes me think that Socio/Mufasa make more sense because we're looking at in our original set of madness Cop/Doc and little else (I'll leave my conjecture on that train closed for now).

However, If I am wrong than cop would be nuts - it'd have had a flat out 50% chance (assuming the scum exist) at start to get a true hit.

Porkens being a doc makes sense balance wise AND the play oozes town. I'll say right now if Porkens is scum GG because I'm not buying it.

So, yes, vote Budja for freedom. If the game keeps going I don't know what the hell to think.

[SpyreX]

Color me absolutely unsurprised.

Lets lynch this yeehaw.

[SpyreX]

This is late enough in the game that I'm not willing to wait around for a myriad of reasons.

I love it when it all adds up. Which it sure did right thar'.

[SpyreX]

There wasn't a scum kill last night.

If Porkens is to believed, no one even attempted on Quag.

The numbers suggest one of you and sajin are the reason why the game is still alive.

I've every reason to believe this is absolutely the correct lynch.

[SpyreX]

Note: One way or another I want this lynch to go fast before the other games screw something up.

Look at 645 by Budja. He has no reason to side with town in the event I'm wrong (which I doubt I am).

Push this lynch through.

[SpyreX]

...hold up on something pretty sweet I missed.

You come in, give Yos (who was going round and round with ME) the ability to planeswalk and then chime in with:

SpyreX is not scum for suggesting it. It looks far too open and attention-grabbing to be scummy.

And if that isn't the case for giving it Yos you think the other major suspect at the point (Sociopath) is town.

Does not compute.

[SpyreX]

And, again, OHH SOO SCUMMY I KNOW RITE.

Mufasa is going to get lynched. And soon. I would really love to get this done BEFORE that game has a chance to screw this up.

[SpyreX]

Considering the fact I think Budja is the game winning lynch, letting the other game go to night opens up all kinds of interference options that I'd rather not deal with (namely, someone else showing up in this game / taking one of our dudes).

I like how I was town up until today and the "lack" of a scumkill.

Swish.

[SpyreX]

Lets grease this pig!

Bacon for all.

The cost of this bacon spectacular? 1 vote.

You know where.

Be the guy.

Get. The. Bacon.

[SpyreX]

PSH. I am not. I went FIRST. Sheesh.

Via 608: I'm Marrow Gnawer, Vanilla Townie (Black).

Taking budja off means putting someone else ON and I still think he's why the game is still going. My numbers make no sense for there being SK / SK / Scum at start with the jumping mechanics.

[SpyreX]

1.) I'm not risking a modkill by giving any more information than I have. If you have SPECIFIC questions that I can run by a mod sure but not risking it for something that means very little.

2.) If there was 2 mafia with the claims the setup would have been very close to unwinnable. If there was 1 I'm betting they got the hell out (as there was a possible day 2 lose).

3.) If, for example, sociopath is scum and there is a swap of ohh, me for a scum with budja here the game ends. Period.

4.) The absence of a kill last night by mafia.

@Sociopath:

:headdesk:

And how, praytell, would we DO that? I'm not going to hope that another game helps us versus as 2 illustrates could lose us the game we've batted perfect on.

[SpyreX]

Which is fine and if Budja doesn't make the game end AND if we don't get clustered by hijinks from the other game THEN Sajin can be a lynch.

[SpyreX]

There. GOOD.

Sociopath be a helper.

[SpyreX]

I'm seriously about this mufasa is about to dangle and I'd rather have that not happen before this.

In fact: DEAR OTHER GAME PLEASE LET US WIN OUR GAME BEFORE YOU SCREW IT UP

LOVE, US

P.S. IF YOU CANT DO THAT THEN SHOOT SAJIN SO HE GTFO'S

LOVE US AGAIN

---- Preview Edit

I'm not assuming the game doesn't end. I am expecting it to. IF, however, it doesn't then preparedness is awesome.

I did not start with it.

[SpyreX]

What possible benefit is there to waiting for other games to throw a wrench in this?

Seriously.

Budja telling the truth is a liability that needs to be eliminated. I'm not counting on altruism to fix this at this juncture.

Budja lying is SCUM and should be lynched thusly.

[SpyreX]

DEAR ZITO I AM NOW LOOKING AT OTHER GAMES AND STILL MISS YOU.

KILL MUFASA BUT LET US DO OURS FIRST

WE ARE YELLING THROUGH SPACE

[SpyreX]

....

I like how you've opted NOW to come out and be a hero.

If he flips scum you better get your ticket ready because you're going choo-choo.

There is no WRONG about the fact that if he is telling the truth no matter what the remaining scum will never kill him because he is a HELPER. So I'm not holding a pipe dream that with 6 left a town swapper is going to go "hey, lets bring the survivor here! if he's lying at this point its a wasted lynch! or he is lying and is scum! thats a great pro-town idea!"

[SpyreX]

Budja who was on rollerskates doing absolutely the bare minimum but jumping when mentioned?

Versus Sajin who had bizarro world fake-tracking to try and catch Kai in a lie?

If Budja is a survivor and the game sees tomorrow I am all for lynching Sajin (notice I illuded to that in my rambling post).

If Budja is a scum and the game sees tomorrow I am absolutely for lynching you.

If Budja gets lynched and the game ends I will cheer <--- this is what I expect to happen.

[SpyreX]

Not to mention I had voted for budja before the claim because sheer numbers supported it.

I'm not sure what you're aiming for here.

[SpyreX]

Again, I reiterate:

If Budja is telling the truth and the game goes on Sajin is lynched tomorrow.

If Budja is lying and the game goes on you are lynched tomorrow.

So, if you are not in cohoots with Budja I absolutely don't understand it as you've said, yourself, Sajin is an SK and not scum (because scum makes minimal sense) he couldn't win tomorrow.

[SpyreX]

Keep on keeping on.

It simply means one of them is lying. I've offered you the best nugget I can think of and the fact you wont bite is absolutely telling.

[SpyreX]

I'm not even sure what this one means?

[SpyreX]

"Ohh, you can totally win with the scum? And you would do so at the first real opportunity? *lynch*"

[SpyreX]

Swaps don't happen WHEN it goes to night. It happens AFTER the night.

So Mufasa will be lynched. Then time will pass. Then it will be day in there game again and then you'll see any swapping that has happened.

We don't even know how the mechanics for the night works. If we are still in night and another game goes into night, its likely that it would still affect us. Our only hope of trying a game winning lynch would be to keep other games from lynching until we are back in the day.

Not lynching Sajin today.

Want to lynch Bujda.

Will now lynch Sociopath.

[SpyreX]

Of course it does because its moot. The cop isn't getting lynched today and his investigation was on a dead person.

I'm starting to really get the feeling Sociopath and Budja are scum together and are pushing real, real hard for the mislynch here.

[SpyreX]

When that comes up NOT GREEN I sure as hell didn't so swish.

[SpyreX]

Ohh budja is scum... he just might not be mafia.

[SpyreX]

Well we'll see where the cards lie hopefully soon.

If he's mafia just write out your will tonight after that debacle.

If not, get the rope a'greased in preparation.

Hopefully we just get "YOU WIN" though.

[SpyreX]

Thats a lynchin' Sajin: SpyreX, Porkens, Sajin, Sociopath.

[SpyreX]

I don't shed a tear at lynching a survivor near endgame.

Nor would I ever.

Now the dance begins in earnest.

[SpyreX]

Nothing has changed about not wanting to get modkilled for that. Ask specific questions and I'll see if I can answer them.

[SpyreX]

I've asked the mod about how I can answer those. You will get them forthcoming.

Something else stinks too, but we'll see.

[SpyreX]

So, mod approved answers:

No.
Yes. During Tar's night phase 2.
Hidetsugu's Second Rite
Yes.
Because I was given said enchantment?

And with that, bed.

[SpyreX]

OHH SNAP NO ONE DIED WHAT A SURPRISE

Vote: Sajin

[SpyreX]

Unvote: Sajin

I guess I can wait for the cop to cop it up.

[SpyreX]

Well, huh.

Yea, that about settles it unless you and Sajin are some kind of no kill having scumgroup thats all she wrote.

Unvote, Vote: Sociopath